I don't think home consoles will survive the next generation

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bluegate

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Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Well, I personally have no plans of gaming on a computer in the near future, so for me it's Consoles or just no games at all.
Let me guess: You are proud of your nation's console/consoles and wont switch to the objectively superior and cheaper and better for gaming long term platform out of national pride?
My nation's console? Want to know what my nation's console looks like?


In other words; you guessed wrong 😟
 

bluegate

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Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Well, I personally have no plans of gaming on a computer in the near future, so for me it's Consoles or just no games at all.
Let me guess: You are proud of your nation's console/consoles and wont switch to the objectively superior and cheaper and better for gaming long term platform out of national pride?
My nation's console? Want to know what my nation's console looks like?


In other words; you guessed wrong 😟
Then you have no reason to be on consoles besides nostalgia.
I'm currently looking at one reason 😑
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Charcharo said:
Board games arent in discussion here. Imagination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything and anything Radeon and Nvidia can achieve > consoles.
The best RPGs are also board games. Human imagination skullfucks the absolute best video games have, not matter the talent thrown by game makers.
So you concede the argument, that's nice.

Why does PC have to do Ultra 4K. WHy cant I be a PC Gamer with a low end PC? Tell me please. This is a double standard. Its OK for consoles to be ugly, but PC Games cant be therefor expensive hardware (as if we need expensive hardware to max games *rolls eyes*) therefor PC costs more.
This is hypocrisy.
No, you're implementing dishonest argumentation.

My argument was that consoles were good value and provide options beyond having a high quality gaming rig. Some people don't have the money to buy a gaming rig, or they're looking for things beyond a PC. For instance, I like my Switch for mobile gaming and being able to effortlessly involve another person beside me.

Consoles dont breed choice nor diversity. Consumers have choice on PC. AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Steam, GOG, Origin, Asus, Sapphire, EVGA and many others. Consoles breed timed exclusives, lack of modding, bad UIs, mortal games.
Those are online distributors of games. not divrsity of products.

Without a Nintendo you wouldn't have motion controls or a decent portable game console, for instance. By having multiple means to play games, more people can afford to play games. By having multiple plaforms experimenting with new ways to deliver gameplay, the more diversity of options and new, divergent gameplay types.

What is wrong with being a woman???!?? WTF man?
You said I'd be a 'very happy man', I was merely correcting you. How the fuck did you get that out of what I said?

Also museums can take better care of it than you for sure.
That's great, it's also mine and thus I'll keep it.

YOu can not make a game with advanced A-Life on a NES no matter how much money, time and guts you pour in. It is impossible on an engineering level.
And? At the very least I can play good games back when games weren't piss-easy and actually demanded skill.

Board games are different to video games. They are a technological feat too BTW, just a lesser one (technologically).
How does it feel different? I want real, cold hard engineering facts. Something I can measure so as to replicate. If there is something different, we need to know what it is, (if it isnt different due to inferior technology) so as to replicate it for the GOOD of the art form!
Because unlike an online server, I can look another player in the eye. I can also actively bluff with slight body language cues, and that and it looks better and shuffling cards in my hand helps me think. It feels better, it looks better, and I can talk to someone in the flesh.
 

bluegate

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Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Well, I personally have no plans of gaming on a computer in the near future, so for me it's Consoles or just no games at all.
Let me guess: You are proud of your nation's console/consoles and wont switch to the objectively superior and cheaper and better for gaming long term platform out of national pride?
My nation's console? Want to know what my nation's console looks like?


In other words; you guessed wrong 😟
Then you have no reason to be on consoles besides nostalgia.
I'm currently looking at one reason 😑
People being honest with you and wanting to do you good, as well as good for the art form you supposedly love?
Yeah. Despicable.
I trust that your intentions are in the right place, but your attitude leaves much to be desired.
 

bluegate

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Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Charcharo said:
bluegate said:
Well, I personally have no plans of gaming on a computer in the near future, so for me it's Consoles or just no games at all.
Let me guess: You are proud of your nation's console/consoles and wont switch to the objectively superior and cheaper and better for gaming long term platform out of national pride?
My nation's console? Want to know what my nation's console looks like?


In other words; you guessed wrong 😟
Then you have no reason to be on consoles besides nostalgia.
I'm currently looking at one reason 😑
People being honest with you and wanting to do you good, as well as good for the art form you supposedly love?
Yeah. Despicable.
I trust that your intentions are in the right place, but your attitude leaves much to be desired.
Then how can I get you guys to listen? Nothing works and I love gaming too much to shut up and prey. Besides I am nice, but arguing is arguing.
Well, a good start would be to not start a conversation with someone by throwing assumptions at them.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Feb 4, 2009
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Charcharo said:
OK... tell me why should I go for a PS4 Pro and not a cheap budget PC of similar price?
They will be close in performance. One is a PC and can do emulation, modding, backwards compatibility, and to boot - it can do work. Office work, productivity work, creative work. It is not even a luxury item, but a requirement.
You argument doesnt work mate.
Because you'd be hardpressed to find a decent computer that would play equivalent games for the same price point? That and local multiplayer? It makes it easier for people to buy other people games for consoles than it does for PC?

AMD, Intel and Nvidia are online services? Of what, salt under WCCFtech?
No, but Steam, GOG, and Origin fucking are ... why not just throw in retailer chains while you're at it?

Listen, I believe consoles had a point till the year 2000 plus minus one two. I am not saying they were always a problem. But things have changed. As for Nintendo - they also bullied developers and tech creators, propagandate terrible engineering, stifled creativity in North America and Japan for a time.
As opposed to publishers pushing dev staff regardless of their platform?

PC is not one platform. PC has several, gigantic, incredibly good at engineering companies fighting over it. Nintendo are NOT their equal and never were. That doesnt mean they didnt help gaming, they did... and motion controls for as bad as they are - matter. But... they are outranked.
That's nice, but you fail to provide me a reason why I should actively dislike my Switch. Or my PS4 Pro, for that matter.

Lol. Come on PC and learn what a hard game means. The RTS, RTT, Tycoon and GS genres want to teach you what hardcore means. STALKER: Call of Misery can drill respect into you, probably better than the NES titles.
Yeah, no... because I've beaten the STALKER games ... I've yet to beat Ninja Gaiden. Yet quizzically I've beaten the later titles on other platforms beyond the NES.

Where did I say something bad about board games? I am attacking console games if anything, not board games...
That was my argument. You asked me the mechanical differences between playing Netrunner at my LGS, or playing it over jinteki.net. I told you the differences.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Charcharo said:
PC Ironically has more local multiplayer titles than consoles. And why would it be hard to build a PC equivalent to a PS4 Pro?
Tell me what does a PS4 Pro have along with its equivalent (+ console 10% optimization) on PC? I know very well, and it is surprisingly anemic. Do you?
Please explain to me which games do local multiplayer well on a PC?

Because Steam, GOG and Origin compete directly and the fate of gaming, long term, depends on them. ATI, Nvidia, Intel compete on a higher technological level that the weebs at Nintendo and Sony. Is it not obvious? I also listed several stuff, I expected you are referring to all of them.
As opposed to Eb Games, Gamestop, major household goods chains, etc?

Nintendo's bullying was worse than that of any individual publisher.
As opposed to EA?

Your Switch is weak. Very weak. There is no reason why you needed to waste money on it, since it would be possible to play those games on a PC or on a good tablet. The reason you cant is Nintendo having the platform hostage. That is why you should be against them - they are making sure you need to pay more (is money an object to you? I am an Eastern European student, it is an object to me) and stifle the ability for humanity to play their games 100 years in the future, hence stifling the art form's preservation. They also limit modding.
Same for PS 4 Pro basically.
Yes, heaven forbid if companies sought to make profit and produce their own IP on their terms... How tragic. And how well did dropping console production work out for Sega and Atari, again? Also, you're talking nonsense. I don't whine like a child when a local artist doesn't do replications of their work so that notmerely one person can hang their portrait in their living room.

I have beaten Ninja Gaiden games. Not my type of title, too simple thematically, their worlds arent very well developed and dont got for literaty themes like STALKER. But that is your taste. Still, notice what I said : Call of Misery. You havent played that game :)
... yeah, see ... I consider myself a gamer because I like challenge, not B-movie experiences for three times the price of a movie ticket. Ironically equalling the same length of time of 3 movies it would take me to finish most current videogames that didn't have needless padding. Like four hours of cringeworthy cutscenes in MGS4. Which like all rational people you skip to get to the 3 hours of gameplay. MGS3 was pretty good, if only because Ocelot. The original Zelda wasn't a tour de force because it told a good story. It's because it nailed gameplay.

If I want a good story I'll pick up a book, or go to the cinema.


Board games are a different medium as I see it.
Right, but you asked me a question. Moreover it points to the fact that divergent gameplay is more important than simply emulation. That the feel, texture, and nuance of input is just as important,and that is fundamentally lost when it is divorced from control schemas it was designed to have in mind.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Charcharo said:
http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en/Local%20Multiplayer/#p=0&tab=TopSellers
https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Local_Multiplayer_Games
BTW this is excluding modded games. Some games have mods to allow for this. ALso you didnt answer the hardware part.
Okay, so lets take native games dating back to before Hexen, over 20 years ago, and totally fantastic games like FaeVerse Alchemy and 15 versions of Fifa over the entire age of the PC...?

Seriously, did you bother reading this list?


Yes, as opposed to those. Those are dying. Their time as the top dog is over and they always at MOST had influence over ONE REGION of the world, not THE ENTIRE WORLD.
And yet people are still using them.

EA Games is same thing - they never had AS MUCH power as Nintendo did in North America. Also notice how quickly the discussion went from "Nintendo is good!" to "At least they ain't EA... I think!".

The profit of companies is less important than both ME the consumer and VIDEO GAMING the art form. This is something I do not understand, why are you, a consumer, defending these companies? Their good is not necessarily your own good, they aren't your friends. Now if you are WORKING at Sony or Nintendo or have a loved one there - I understand. No need for me to pry, that is understandable, but I attack even companies I like because I know my good is not their good and vice versa, at least no necessarily.
Yeah, I keep seeing Atari do wonderful things while near bankrupt. Whether we like it or not, videogame companies have to turn a profit at least. I'm certainly not going to apologize for buying their products.

So you will be fine to know your grandchildren wont ever get to play some of the games you played, if Sony and Nintendo have it their way? I consider that cultural barbarism btw...
Um, what? If I did have grandkids, they can just play my games if they want to. Or they can use their own purchasing power to make their own choices in buying games. You know, like any other consumer. It's certainly preferable to playing no games because you assume people should give you entertainment for free.

I consider myself a gamer too. Hence why I told you of challenges no lesser, hell perhaps greater than your NES titles. Also as a gamer, I believe gaming an art form, and art forms tell stories or weave themes. NES games do that too btw, unless you want to take a dump on those titles...
No, you told me STALKER ... and that's a flat out fucking laugh. And sure, videogames can totally tell a narrative ... but I don't play games for a narrative. I play them because they're games (hence why board games are my favourite). The best board games you can almost tell your own story by your actions, what you choose to do, how you interact with other players.

Ludonarrative. I don't play Resistance: Avalon because it's a faithful retelling of Arthurian dimensions. I play it because of the insanely great play-acting, deduction, and outwardly being able to look your friends in the eye and lie to their face and manipulate their thoughts and feelings ... like a real evil doer might.

It tells its own tale of wicked cunning, duplicity and treachery. Where evil doers can and will actively out other evil doers on their team to secure victory against the heroes and it's a perfectly valid strategy.

Ludonarrative brilliance.


This right here is precisely why board gaming is in its second golden age... each game is at least this baseline level of fun.

Also, literature > Cinema.
Don't rightly fucking care. Actually, no ... Godfather (movie) >>>> Godfather (book).

Feel and texture depends on controller materials. Can be emulated. Input can be emulated perfectly via software too, though it takes time. You underestimate what people can do on PC ...
You underestimate how NES-like my NES feels.
 

Chewster

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Addendum_Forthcoming said:
What exactly is your point here? Mine is people obviously love consoles. There's something about them. That's clearly the case. And yeah, for whatever reason I'd rather play a NES classic game on my original grey beauty of a console that still works rather than on a PC emulator. The reason being is because of the experience of holding that type of controller from the past, alone, makes it feel safe and authentic to the videogame designs of old. And it's not merely nostalgia, because new games are being made for it. Like Star Versus.


It's like riding a classic motorcycle, lovingly kept in fine condition. It's an experience that might be replicated, but it won't feel the same. I agree that archetypal machines and games should be archived and kept for posterity. But simply relying on PC emulation? That's like saying a reproduction of a portrait is 'good enough'.

I would kind of hope that we keep the cartridges. Keep the machines. It's not merely how the game played or the information, it's the cartridge as well. It's the box art, the manuals, the original black dust sleeves, cartridge stickers, controllers. PC emulatorsdon't do it justice. They fundamentally alter the player's relationship to the game.
Sidenote: probably you're aware of this already but there are people out there who can reprogram old carts with new games or you can even do it yourself if you're cool enough and have all the right equipment/patience. I don't know if that game is the same thing and I've yet to get around to paying someone to make it but I'd always wanted to play that Eric Ruth 8-bit Left4Dead on an actual NES because that would be bomb as fuck.

http://ericruthgames.weebly.com/games.html
http://callanbrown.com/index.php/basic-nes-reproduction
http://poorstudenthobbyist.blogspot.kr/2014/10/making-your-own-nes-reproduction.html
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Chewster said:
Sidenote: probably you're aware of this already but there are people out there who can reprogram old carts with new games or you can even do it yourself if you're cool enough and have all the right equipment/patience. I don't know if that game is the same thing and I've yet to get around to paying someone to make it but I'd always wanted to play that Eric Ruth 8-bit Left4Dead on an actual NES because that would be bomb as fuck.

http://ericruthgames.weebly.com/games.html
http://callanbrown.com/index.php/basic-nes-reproduction
http://poorstudenthobbyist.blogspot.kr/2014/10/making-your-own-nes-reproduction.html
Yeah, you can get ROM chip encoders to hook up to your PC, and it's fairly easy to change from vertical to horizontal processing depending on where you solder the chipboard. You can buy the cartridge case themselves, or even make them if you're pretty good with 3D printing. 8bit L4D looks pretty awesome, as does The Incident. The Incident is pretty darn good.

As I was saying, the NES is like the AK-74 of gaming ... you can smash them together from a myriad of different sources, none ofthem that exensive. And it's still going strong. Long live the console. In all seriousness they're still making Apple II components for hobbyists ... And it's not merely a Western hobbyist thing, there's guys in Korea that make chipsets for old 'consoles' still ... either by engineering them with newer infrastructure, or self design.

As long as other people are like me that appreciate old machines, and they're still breathing, you'll still have consoles floating about. And hey... it turns out Millenials are keeping libraries and hardprint books alive, so who knows? Maybe we'll bring proper retro back.

I think as the jobs market gets harder for new millenials, and there's a natural disdain growing towards A.I. and automation basically meaning only the Baby Boomers are the only ones benefitting by the rampant technocracy towards Taylorism, rather than actual improvement of the human condition, I think it might also float on the back of the idea of 'cool resistance'.

We saw something akin to it with the end of Maoist China, after a decade of the post-Deng XiaoPing generation. How a lot of Chinese youth started looking to old mythology and culture once more. As such people might examine an era when technology provided genuine hopefulness, rather than crippling uncertainty.

When youcreate a jobs market where you need four qualifications to survive paying rent in Sydney... pretty sure people are going to start imploding when they that start seeing even socializing jobs like in community services, and semi-artistic/humanising jobs like being a cook or corporate planning handled by biometric scanning for lie detection during job interviews ... pretty sure that sledgehammer to that robotic scanner is a few years away.

Forget religion, gaming is the opiate of masses of the future. Say what you like, when gaming starts looking like all their frustrations in life with alienating concepts like being security chipped to work, that's not going to be a healthy outcome. I already got annoyed at my phone asking for me to register my fingerprint just to fucking use it a bit quicker. Only so far you can push the already volatile.

But hey, maybe I've become old already ...? When it gets to the point that you have 70% of people looking for extra work on the side, only to be met constantly ... face to face ... with that which is removing all their securty. With no cheap education options. No real marketplace for creativity, but rather re-marketing the same consumerist crap ... and suddenly in the news you start hearing of increasing violence toward the machines responsible? That 70% of people might not become instantly violent, but a part of them ... that black, abyssal nugget of coalesced frustrations ... a part of them will be silently, invisibly nodding. Igniting that fuse.

Part and parcel why automation is a dead end, but more importantly why it's important to distract humans from their troubles.

That's part and parcel why I thing retro game will continue to last, why consoles even if 'underpowered' will still persist. Because ultimately if you're going to give people something similar and reminiscent to the systems of their own insecurities and expect them to buy it at an inflated price point they won't be able to afford, of course they're going to go with options they can avoid it, but also do not alienate them from other people.

Also the reason why I think board gaming numbers are growing exponentially. That's just a theory, anyways. Frankly I'm all for robot smashing or looking at technology as per what it can inspire or achieve, not how it can merely save the already wealthy more money.

I fully expect I'll be that 80 year old with their walker beating up on that creepy arse Japanese waifu model-T5 android.

Everybody should have goals in life.
 

Deadguy2322

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I wish threads like this from insecure PC gamers wouldn?t survive this generation. Just play games the way you want and mind your own goddamn business.
 

laggyteabag

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Kerg3927 said:
A good (not the best) gaming PC rig will run you $1,500-$2,500.
Either the value of the USD has plummeted last I checked, cryptocurrency mining has has inflated the cost of GPUs to the nth degree, or you are on some wacky tabaccy.

$1,500-$2,500 my ass.

OT: I don't think that consoles will ever drop off of the market. Consoles are just so damn convenient. PC's, meanwhile, are just not easy enough to understand, without some kind of standardisation.

If a guy walks into a shop to get a PS4, a PS4 is the same as any other PS4. He can go home, and stick his favourite PS4 game into the system, and voila, it will run. No faff, no hastle. You don't really get that with PCs; a "gaming PC" can be literally anything on a huge spectrum of systems.

As you said in your OP: People are busy. Not everyone has time to figure out the benefits and drawbacks on Intel vs AMD processors, or decide whether FXAA is worth the performance drop in their favourite game. Consoles make decisions for you. My best friend has a fairly decent computer (1050ti, FX 8350), and I found out that he had been playing Heroes of the Storm at Medium settings at 720p. I don't think the platform is really for him.

For those who put the time and effort into learning PCs, and understanding them as a platform, the benefits are blatant and obvious. I could personally go on for hours about why having a PC is the ultimate gaming platform, but the market needs to cater for those who don't have time for that, and want something quick and easy. PCs are not for those people.