I don't understand the praise for Evangelion

[Casual Shinji]

Or how the Christian iconography feels too much like meaningless decals put there just 'cause the creators felt it looked cool rather than having any actual meaning to the text.

This really needs to be put to bed after all these years. The Christian symbolism was never meant to be anything else but framing for the lore, that's all. The only reason we (Westerners) see it as more than that is because of the roots this religion has in our culture. This is why both fans and critics stare themselves blind on this aspect, and use it to either praise or critisize it, when it's nothing more than 'power terms'. Just as 'Adam' in Bioshock was never meant to be anything other than a *wink wink nudge nudge* 'Get it..?'

That's not to say there isn't a religious subtext in the show, but it's not in all the sci-fi beeswax.

And the Rebuilds are nothing more than Gainax milking the cash cow, so there's nothing much of anything you'll be getting out of those, except some pretty pictures. [sub]Which still don't hold a candle to the visuals of End of Evangelion.[/sub]

 

[Nouw]

By now I thought everyone and their grandmothers would have known that the religious iconography in Evangelion has no 'deep meaning' considering how it is brought up in every Eva thread ever.

Anyhow, Evangelion will always hold a special place in my heart for being my first 'serious anime' post-childhood. I watched it at just the right time to enjoy it but negatively influence me and so consequently to this day I am an Evangelion fanboy. Okay, okay, it goes beyond my taste in pop-culture but that's a different discussion. I guess it could be like how my teacher didn't enjoy Catcher in the Rye; she read it when she was an adult and felt that she couldn't really connect with Holden Caulfield. Maybe it could be that.

I'm not gonna make you watch it but at least give the soundtrack a try.

Spoiler: Enjoy.

Just as 'Adam' in Bioshock was never meant to be anything other than a *wink wink nudge nudge* 'Get it..?'

That's the most well-worded explanation of the religious symbolism in Evangelion I've ever read. Hope you don't mind if I use it some time.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Firstly, I should admit that I'm not the biggest anime fan. I love animation as a medium, its just that a lot of anime I've watched so far tends to go into the same tropes I loathe. The worst among them imo being dialogue vomit, fan service, and weirdness for the sake of weird (even anime series that I enjoyed for the most part such as Full Metal Alchemist, Ghost in the Shell, and Cowboy Beebop suffered from these tropes to varying degrees).

Over the last few weeks I found my luck and interest in anime changing as I came across the work of Mamoru Hosoda (Summer Wars, Wolf Children), Attack on Titan, and the dream film that absolutely put Inception to shame--Paprika. All of these works are excellent.

On recommendation of a friend, I watched the first Evangelion film (I had tried watching the show way back when, but it had put me to sleep) and found it meh. It wasn't terrible, I mean I really liked the animation style and the Eva/Angel designs (I absolutely loved the animation on Ramiel), though I did find everything else lacking.

My friend had sold the show to me as an intellectual film--one that had a ton of depth and thought behind its concepts, themes, and characters. I disagree. I think my friend confused depth with word-vomit. I mean one of the main things that annoyed me was that the characters would monologue about all sorts of tangents making the conversations feel bloated and unnatural.

Its like me and friend were discussing our backgrounds and he told me his father is German and I replied by going into the reason why the Weimar Republic failed complete with historical dates and events despite none of it having nothing to do with the topic. That's what watching Evangelion felt like--an interaction between ready to burst plot sponges ready to drench the viewer with endless dialogue rather than allowing the world-building happen naturally like in a lot of other films.

So that's my main problem with Evangelion. I mean I have way more, like what an unlikeable little turd Shinji is the entire world seems to revolve around him. Or how the Christian iconography feels too much like meaningless decals put there just 'cause the creators felt it looked cool rather than having any actual meaning to the text. But I digress.

So...am I just missing something?

I often wish I could vomit trite dialog vomet like they do in anime because to my western ears they sound super smart and cool.

 

[NihilSinLulz]

I often wish I could vomit trite dialog vomet like they do in anime because to my western ears they sound super smart and cool.

Its easier than you think. Just pretend you're THAT GUY, you know THAT GUY - He's the one who read part of The Republic that one time for an intro to Sociology/Humanities class and now every conversation becomes about every and all things are like the Allegory of the Cave--yeah, THAT GUY.

Word-vomit is a sticking point for me when it comes to anything. I loathe it. I could overlook a lot of things in my art, but that by far is the hardest as it just indicated to me that the writer is damn lazy.

I'm fine with dialogue heavy movies (I love Linklater and Cronenberg's work), but it has to serve a purpose. I admit, I have a bias however. Hell, I grew up on AEon Flux which is incredibly economic with its dialogue.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Last year I watched the first half of the series, round about to episode 14 or 15. I had learned all the characters names by then and was more or less watching episodes daily. And then I just stopped, and never bothered to return to it. It wasn't even a conscious decision. I simply not-watched. It's not even a hate thing, there's a lot of stuff I liked about the show. And yet I just not-watched it anymore.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

I never cared for the religious symbolism. To me it just felt like a part of the world the show has created. You can choose to analyze it if you want, and maybe it would improve your enjoyment of the show, but to me it's there to give the show style.

I'm also one of the people who like Shinji, as a character. He is a pretty unlikable, selfish character, but you don't exactly have to "like" a character or agree with their actions for that character to be a "good" character. I was never annoyed by him because I kinda relate to him.

One thing that I believe Evangelion has over most modern anime, though, is that, while a lot of anime since then has been influenced by it, none of them goes nearly as far as Evangelion has with its themes, its visuals, it's symbolism, and its harsh tone. Evangelion is not afraid to takes steps beyond the comfort zone. Evangelion is not afraid to portray it's characters as the lowest scum of the earth. Evangelion is not afraid to make those characters experience hell like no other. It's not afraid of showing things no other anime will show you. It's uncompromising, which is one of the reasons I love it. It's something you don't get out of today's anime. Whether there's real meaning behind its symbolism or not, and whether you agree with its themes and messages or not, Evangelion is not afraid to give it to you in the most blatant way possible, and it helps that, at least in my opinion, it works as a solid sci-fi action show. It's definitely a show that requires a bit of effort to fully get into it, but if it's just not your taste, that's fine, too.

Also, if you want an anime that's spewing with pseudo-intellectual, symbolic schlock, I dare you to sit through Penguindrum.

 

[hermes]

The issue with Evangelion is that its influence was better appreciated within the historical context. In many ways, it is a deconstruction of an entire genre and medium. Because of that, if you don't take into account the state of the anime industry before and during Evangelion, you are missing half of the story. As many things that became influential, it has been copied to no end, so seeing it with modern eyes may make it look derivative.

In a way it may seem like reading Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns... At this point, it would seem like nothing more than another example in the list of cynic superhero comics that play it as dark, but at the time there was (literally) nothing like it.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

The issue with Evangelion is that its influence was better appreciated within the historical context. In many ways, it is a deconstruction of an entire genre and medium. Because of that, if you don't take into account the state of the anime industry before and during Evangelion, you are missing half of the story. As many things that became influential, it has been copied to no end, so seeing it with modern eyes may make it look derivative.

In a way it may seem like reading Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns... At this point, it would seem like nothing more than another example in the list of cynic superhero comics that play it as dark, but at the time there was (literally) nothing like it.

That might also be its biggest problem: can it still work as a story on its own without the historical context (God that sounds pompous)? I would say no, since (apparently) Shinji was meant to subvert the typical mecha protagonists up to that point: others were uber heroic, valiant supermen, and Shinji was a whimpering pussy, which made Eva stand out. Even if you don't know anything about comics or politics from around the mid 80's, you can still read and appreciate Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns as their own stories. In Evangelion (again, just personal opinion) without the prior knowledge you just have a bunch of unlikable maniacs and tons of christian symbolism wrapped around a story that barely holds together.

 

[hermes]

The issue with Evangelion is that its influence was better appreciated within the historical context. In many ways, it is a deconstruction of an entire genre and medium. Because of that, if you don't take into account the state of the anime industry before and during Evangelion, you are missing half of the story. As many things that became influential, it has been copied to no end, so seeing it with modern eyes may make it look derivative.

In a way it may seem like reading Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns... At this point, it would seem like nothing more than another example in the list of cynic superhero comics that play it as dark, but at the time there was (literally) nothing like it.

That might also be its biggest problem: can it still work as a story on its own without the historical context (God that sounds pompous)? I would say no, since (apparently) Shinji was meant to subvert the typical mecha protagonists up to that point: others were uber heroic, valiant supermen, and Shinji was a whimpering pussy, which made Eva stand out. Even if you don't know anything about comics or politics from around the mid 80's, you can still read and appreciate Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns as their own stories. In Evangelion (again, just personal opinion) without the prior knowledge you just have a bunch of unlikable maniacs and tons of christian symbolism wrapped around a story that barely holds together.

I believe it does. There are themes and story beats there (other than the nonsense symbolism), like the secret organization with a hidden agenda, the main characters being emotionally weak and growing stronger through their experiences, Shinji being defined by his iteration with others, and learning to manage the expectations put on him, being closer to a normal teenager than the regular action hero, etc... that are still quite universal.

Of course, the symbolism is a pretty big red herring, which can turn off people who focus on them. For better themes, you have to dig deeper. Many people don't do it and became frustrated with the series... But to consider it just a collage of barely-put-together Hebrew references is as shallow a reading as considering it a standard giant robots cartoon.

 

[Casual Shinji]

That might also be its biggest problem: can it still work as a story on its own without the historical context (God that sounds pompous)? I would say no, since (apparently) Shinji was meant to subvert the typical mecha protagonists up to that point: others were uber heroic, valiant supermen, and Shinji was a whimpering pussy, which made Eva stand out. Even if you don't know anything about comics or politics from around the mid 80's, you can still read and appreciate Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns as their own stories. In Evangelion (again, just personal opinion) without the prior knowledge you just have a bunch of unlikable maniacs and tons of christian symbolism wrapped around a story that barely holds together.

I had no historical context when I first saw it more than a decade ago. I'd seen plenty of anime, but no mecha anime except for Patlabor, and I wasn't aware of the 'otaku' subculture that the show was aparently subverting. It's the same with End of Evangelion, where apparently the only thing that gives it merrit is that it's Anno's 'fuck you' to the audience. But again, I wasn't even aware at the time of the fall-out the orginal show caused, or the budget issues that spawned the final two episodes and subsequent death threats. And I still "loved" it.