I don't understand the term trans

[Bobular]

Before I start I just want to say the reason I'm making this post is I'm ignorant and would like to not be. No harm or insult meant by any of these questions.

I don't understand why trans-people is a thing at all, what makes someone trans.

I'm a man and I like some things that are traditionally 'girly' things, doesn't mean I want to become a woman so its not that. As far as I'm aware its nothing to do with sexuality. I'm sure there's more to it then a man wanting his own set of boobs (or vice versa) especially since you don't have to have gone through surgery to be trans. And I'm 100% certain people don't do it because they like the reaction of the general public.

So my question to the trans community is, what is it that makes you think of your selves as trans?

Mod edit: the thread title has been slightly edited for better clarity.

 

[omega 616]

While I am not trans, I think it's more like "I'm physically a man but mentally, I am a woman". They identify more strongly as the gender they don't physically represent. I don't think it's "it would be cool to have boobs/cock" 'cos of the severe abuse you can receive AND approaching future relationships can be so much harder 'cos you don't know how the other person will react.

I don't want to talk on behalf of anyone but I'm open to being corrected by a trans person.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

-Snip.-

You sort of touch on it there, but kinda miss the point.

In at least one particular way being trans is similar to being gay or lesbian. It's not a choice that we make. We don't just wake up one day and decide to be the opposite gender. A lot of the immerging science says that there's a link to neurology and sexual dimorphism in the brain, which is fancy talk to say that trans folk's brains are more like the opposite gender's, rather than that of their birth sex.

Still to put it in the most simple terms it's like this: A trans person feels on an innate level that the sex they were born does not reflect them as a person, it doesn't match up, basically feeling like one is the wrong gender. Trans folk internally identify as members of the opposite gender(or both, neither, or it changes on a regular basis, etc...), this isn't like empathizing more with the opposite sex, it's a very deep internal thing, a clash of the physical versus the set up of the mind. This clash causes gender dysphoria, which is the mind very staunchly being at odds with the body, this tends to cause tremendous emotional issues, which is why trans folk, my self included, tend to transition. Because transitioning is basically the only to diminish the gender dysphoria, though it never fully goes away because we were basically born the wrong sex.

 

[Dizchu]

The problem is that places like Tumblr obsess over the idea that people are born as blank slates and society "forces" them into gender roles. While I find the opposite idea that biological sex 100% determines a person's psychology to be absolute nonsense, the "real" answer is somewhere in between. Men and women have different tendencies, and there's nothing wrong with people gravitating towards things "traditionally" associated with their gender.

But despite all that, let's get something straight. The reason transgender people exist is because the sexes are so different. You essentially have the biggest physical division between people in society, and not only is the dysphoria a huge factor (I'll explain that in a bit), but those physical differences influence society as a whole, especially when most people are heterosexual. It informs language (pronouns like "he" or "she"), buildings (toilets for men and women) and generally gives people different expectations.

Gender dysphoria is the most important aspect of this though. To me this is what differentiates "real" transgender people from people that merely don't fit into society's definition of "male" and "female". I look at my body and I feel complete disgust. Not because I am hideous, my body's actually not too bad. But because it is just wrong. It's hard to really explain without experiencing it yourself, and thankfully most people don't. It's because male and female bodies are so different that this dysphoria occurs.

Whether being transgender counts as a mental disorder or a physical one depends on how you view the human body. Is an individual a body that contains a mind or the mind itself? Personally I think, because a person's life ends when the brain dies and alterations to the brain make huge changes in that person's character, the mind is what defines an individual.

 

[omega 616]

-Snip.-

You sort of touch on it there, but kinda miss the point.

In at least one particular way being trans is similar to being gay or lesbian. It's not a choice that we make. We don't just wake up one day and decide to be the opposite gender. A lot of the immerging science says that there's a link to neurology and sexual dimorphism in the brain, which is fancy talk to say that trans folk's brains are more like the opposite gender's, rather than that of their birth sex.

Still to put it in the most simple terms it's like this: A trans person feels on an innate level that the sex they were born does not reflect them as a person, it doesn't match up, basically feeling like one is the wrong gender. Trans folk internally identify as members of the opposite gender(or both, neither, or it changes on a regular basis, etc...), this isn't like empathizing more with the opposite sex, it's a very deep internal thing, a clash of the physical versus the set up of the mind. This clash causes gender dysphoria, which is the mind very staunchly being at odds with the body, this tends to cause tremendous emotional issues, which is why trans folk, my self included, tend to transition. Because transitioning is basically the only to diminish the gender dysphoria, though it never fully goes away because we were basically born the wrong sex.

Actually, from what you just said, I got it right.

A trans person feels on an innate level that the sex they were born does not reflect them as a person, it doesn't match up, basically feeling like one is the wrong gender.

I'm physically a man but mentally, I am a woman

 

[Barbas]

Do any trans people here consider the words "tomboy" or a "tomgirl" offensive?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Actually, from what you just said, I got it right.

A trans person feels on an innate level that the sex they were born does not reflect them as a person, it doesn't match up, basically feeling like one is the wrong gender.

I'm physically a man but mentally, I am a woman

Well you did, but it was a bit over simple I'd say. Then again I'm trans so I tend to over complicate answers regarding the subject, because it's so close to home.

Do any trans people here consider the words "tomboy" or a "tomgirl" offensive?

Personally I usually don't, but being called a "tomboy" can be offensive and affirming at the same time. When I was younger, I never heard the term "tomgirl" the other kids tended to call me "princess" though, before I went full time. Also having said that I know quite a few trans people who would be upset with either if it were directed at them, but not when directed at cis folk.

 

[Bobular]

It's hard to really explain without experiencing it yourself, and thankfully most people don't.

This may be the problem I'm having, I'm asking people to explain the in-explainable.

I guess I just wanted to know what the main difference is between trans and non-trans people and from the sounds of it its a problem with your physical bodies more then just a mental desire to be male/female. (Feel free to tell me if I've completely missed the point)

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm a man and I like some things that are traditionally 'girly' things, doesn't mean I want to become a woman so its not that.

Hell, if it was, things would be super easy for me. I like video games, pro wrestling, science fiction, and a ll sorts of other things that are considered "male" domains. If that was it, my life would be super easy. My brother would be screwed, though: he's into cooking and knitting and such.

So my question to the trans community is, what is it that makes you think of your selves as trans?

It's the appropriate label for someone who has felt distress at being biologically male since as far back as they can remember. This will persist regardless of gender roles and how things are coded within society, because it's a disconnect between brain and body.

But liking girly things doesn't make you trans any more than it makes you homosexual. I'm betting you understand that second part, because you made this thread specifically about being trans. Yet the stereotyes are identical: men who like "girly" things are coded gay.

Do any trans people here consider the words "tomboy" or a "tomgirl" offensive?

Well, considering I call myself one....

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

It's hard to really explain without experiencing it yourself, and thankfully most people don't.

This may be the problem I'm having, I'm asking people to explain the in-explainable.

I guess I just wanted to know what the main difference is between trans and non-trans people and from the sounds of it its a problem with your physical bodies more then just a mental desire to be male/female. (Feel free to tell me if I've completely missed the point)

I wouldn't call it totally inexplicable, but it's something that's very difficult to put into words.

From the way it's explained, I think it's easy to get the impression that's it's a physical problem, but I wouldn't exactly chalk it up to that entirely. I think the best way to explain it would be to say it this way. I'm also making an assumption here so don't take any offense if I get this next part wrong. The thing is you're a guy, you were born a guy, that's how you see yourself, and everything from that point forward matches. For a trans person it's not that way. I was born male, but a deep part of my unconscious mind just can't accept that, it's not the way thing things are supposed to be, thus I can't function in the world as a male. It's not just roles, clothing, and physical appearance and presentation that matter here, it's how others interact with me and how I interact with them and how I express who I am. As a man I couldn't possibly express myself correctly and as a consequence people would treat me like a man, which to the deepest parts of my mind, to what makes me, me, isn't how I should be treated. I mean being addressed with male pronouns just feels wrong to me, I had to accept that's how people saw me when I was younger, so I can cope with it, but when someone misgenders me today it hurts.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but it's a deep thing that relates to how we see ourselves, who we are in terms of internal identity, how we identify in relation to the world and society around us. It's a personal thing that effects the whole way we relate to the world and the foundation of who we are, as gender always, but being trans makes that far more difficult. That's all because the way we see ourselves and what we were born as don't match.

 

[Dizchu]

This may be the problem I'm having, I'm asking people to explain the in-explainable.

I guess I just wanted to know what the main difference is between trans and non-trans people and from the sounds of it its a problem with your physical bodies more then just a mental desire to be male/female. (Feel free to tell me if I've completely missed the point)

Don't worry about it too much, it's a problem everyone has at some point. Everyone has different experiences and I think unless anyone's trying to speak for a group they don't belong to or make assumptions about them based on false information, it's fine. One of the biggest problems I have with feminism is the frequent dismissal of male experiences and points of view (at what point does genuine concern become "mansplaining"?)

As for the physical bodies thing, yeah absolutely. People often conflate transgender people with drag queens and crossdressers, but the difference is that they do what they do as part of a performance. Sometimes they conflate transgender people with autogynephiles/autoandrophiles (people who are sexually aroused by the idea of a version of themselves of the opposite sex), as if it's an entirely sexual thing.

In reality most transgender people just want to live normally, the whole idea of "passing" is the idea of being able to appear in public and not draw attention or suspicion that they're not "authentically" male or female. It's seen as the ultimate goal to many, being able to blend in with everyone else. Because the most exposure many people will get to transgender people is sensationalised news media (which relies on drawing readers' attention), they may get the distorted view that it's all just attention-seeking.

It's like when a morbidly obese family of unemployed people eating nothing but cake and living on welfare get a news report done about them, suddenly they represent everyone on welfare.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

As for the physical bodies thing, yeah absolutely. People often conflate transgender people with drag queens and crossdressers, but the difference is that they do what they do as part of a performance. Sometimes they conflate transgender people with autogynephiles/autoandrophiles (people who are sexually aroused by the idea of a version of themselves of the opposite sex), as if it's an entirely sexual thing.

In reality most transgender people just want to live normally, the whole idea of "passing" is the idea of being able to appear in public and not draw attention or suspicion that they're not "authentically" male or female. It's seen as the ultimate goal to many, being able to blend in with everyone else. Because the most exposure many people will get to transgender people is sensationalised news media (which relies on drawing readers' attention), they may get the distorted view that it's all just attention-seeking.

Well drag queens are performance artists, who dress in exaggerated caricatures of femininity as part of their performance art. Crossdressers on the other hand are people who wear the clothing of the opposite gender for other reasons, like comfort, or because they find the fashions more attractive. Also the funny thing about autogenophilia, if you apply the test to women, most women would qualify as autogenophiles when it comes to women's clothing.

My two cents here, the weird part of passing, it kinda puts you in this weird sort of middle space, which is kind of an extension of gender dysphoria. Because you know the truth, but everyone around you is blissfully unaware. Personally I kinda like the feeling that I'm not the same as the vast majority of the people around me, at least most of the time, especially when it doesn't show. Although sometimes it scares me, for the fear of being outed in the company of someone who might hurt me, sometimes it's depressing, especially when I see a pregnant woman and know that I can never have that...

Still, having said that, that's not the experience of all trans folk I know, since even between any two of us, our stories and experiences are going to be different. Thus so are the emotions surrounding who we are and how we feel about ourselves.

Edit: By "when it doesn't show" I mean when I have enough confidence to present with confidence. Because without confidence you can't pass, even if your lack of passing is in your own mind and other's can't tell.

 

[Dizchu]

Well drag queens are performance artists, who dress in exaggerated caricatures of femininity as part of their performance art. Crossdressers on the other hand are people who wear the clothing of the opposite gender for other reasons, like comfort, or because they find the fashions more attractive. Also the funny thing about autogenophilia, if you apply the test to women, most women would qualify as autogenophiles when it comes to women's clothing.

Hmm, maybe I just don't regard people wearing the clothing associated with the opposite gender as "crossdressing". It certainly doesn't happen often when women wear "men's clothing", to me anyway I just regard it as people wearing what they want. I consider "crossdressing" to be a conscious decision to wear certain clothes as part of a costume (for example, guys wearing dresses for Halloween or a party, not because it is their preferred attire).

But that's just my interpretation, really.

My two cents here, the weird part of passing, it kinda puts you in this weird sort of middle space, which is kind of an extension of gender dysphoria. Because you know the truth, but everyone around you is blissfully unaware. Personally I kinda like the feeling that I'm not the same as the vast majority of the people around me, at least most of the time, especially when it doesn't show. Although sometimes it scares me, for the fear of being outed in the company of someone who might hurt me, sometimes it's depressing, especially when I see a pregnant woman and know that I can never have that...

Yeah the nature of transgenderism is that things will be bittersweet at best. Whenever I look at a photo of myself and think "I look really good there!", I remember how most of the photos I took that day didn't look as "convincing". When a girl flirts with me and calls me attractive it feels good, but it still feels like I'm inhibited by my own body. A lot of this comes down to body dysmorphia, hardly a trans-exclusive thing. But I do admit that there is an element of "outsider-ness" to it all.

 

[Terminal Blue]

As someone who is still in the process of figuring this whole thing out, it seems to me that there are many, many potential ways of being trans and many potential motives, ambitions and forms of reasoning which can fall under that process. In fact, one thing that put me off identifying that (despite having enormous gender identity issues) I might be trans is this peculiar discourse of "innateness" which tends to come into everything. I mean, obviously if someone feels that they've always been of a different sex to the one they were assigned with and that this is some utterly innate feature of themselves, power to them.[footnote]I would clarify that there is no solid scientific evidence at this point in time that "gender identity" has any basis in anything beyond the mind itself, and that these theories of "biological gender" tend to come about during a time when the prevailing understanding was that being trans was deeply "unnatural" and pathological, but that ultimately has no bearing on how someone feels and how they deserve to be treated.[/footnote] I don't think that's necessary, and I've been lucky enough in the past few years to meet many people who don't feel like that at all. You can feel bad or upset by the way you are coded or treated by others without necessarily feeling that you're recovering some authentic interior identity.

It's also worth noting that not all trans people have a clear sense of wanting to be the opposite sex, or to pass as the opposite sex. I'm personally really skeptical of this whole idea of what a "normal" life means or whether there's actually any special value in living one, for example. That's not to say there's anything wrong with wanting to. If nothing else, I recognize to some extent that the only reason I can say that now is because I've arrived at a point in my life when I'm relatively secure with strong relationships and a level of confidence in myself which means I can deal with people asking whether I'm a man or a woman all the time. Maybe that will change, and maybe I will get to the point where I actually need to make a decision myself, but again.. that's fine, because I don't see my gender identity as something innate. It's changed all my life, more change doesn't frighten me.

A human life is not very long, and I think if something is going to make you happier or more fulfilled, even if it's something that seems weird or unacceptable or "attention seeking" it's still worth considering. People could easily turn around and say that being trans means you'll never lead a normal life anyway even if you do manage to pass the whole time. Fuck those people, not just because they're wrong but because the value of your life doesn't have to be determined by how close it is to an ideal of normality which not everyone can live up to anyway.

 

[JoJo]

Is there a difference between trans and "otherkin", where you hear of people on tumblr claiming to be born as an animal in a human body, or something like that? People don't usually take the latter as seriously as they do the former. Should they?

Trans people generally try to live as their identified gender as much as is humanly possible. No disrespect to otherkin, but I've never heard of an otherkin who actually tried to live as an animal: i.e. talking in grunts or squeaks, abandoning their clothes, houses, technology and central heating to live in the wild outdoors. Difficult to see it as quite so serious when unlike being trans, being otherkin doesn't seem to make any difference to living in our society.