I don't understand why people enjoy Dark Souls/Demon's Souls

[BazaarFawkes]

I can't really say much about those games since I haven't played them yet. What I can say though is that the difficulty and challenge of the game might have been appealing to a lot of individuals. The feeling you get for finally conquering an area that has killed you countless times is simply amazing. That might have been one of the appealing factors of the game.

Although they're unrelated genres, think of the people who play those incredibly hard platform jumpers. That feeling you get when the last bandage is grabbed in Super Meat Boy. Or finally catching the last sodding bird in Moneyseize. It is quite a similar experience that I think Dark/Demon's Soul offers.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I'll say that I don't see why people are so obsessed with Dark Souls, I dont think it was as good as Demon's Souls. The open world thing doesn't really work for the Souls series, I much preferred the central hub with segregated levels. Don't misunderstand, I am a huge fan of open world, just not in the souls games.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

I'll say that I don't see why people are so obsessed with Dark Souls, I dont think it was as good as Demon's Souls. The open world thing doesn't really work for the Souls series, I much preferred the central hub with segregated levels. Don't misunderstand, I am a huge fan of open world, just not in the souls games.

Really? I feel quite the opposite. I thought the central hub and segregated levels was pointless and detracted from the game. Every area I went to seemed so disconnected from the last, I don't know why I had to get to them, when it seems the first area is the only one with anything relevant with what was going on.

Dark Souls having it's entire world connected, you saw how everything went from here and there, it was more of a world and less of a game. You can literally call the levels out by numbers in Demon's Soul's, you can't so much do that in Dark Souls. Not to mention the exploration and discovery of new places is far better then just hitting the next level. Plus, in Dark Souls you have full control over your game, online or off, none of the silly tendency stuff.

@OP: Because I find it one of the most genuinely interesting and enjoyable games I have ever played. The lore is interesting, there are relatively no throw-away characters, as all have a background or some importance. Exploring is very rewarding, and there's so many ways you can go through it with builds and routes that it can keep my interest day after day.

Not to mention the gameplay is fantastic, good combat like this is a rare thing to come across.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

If you have never made it through Sen's Fortress, killed the Iron Golem and seen what lies over that wall, or made it to the last dragon then you don't know what you are missing.

 

[piinyouri]

I see this thread, while I'm listening to Nameless Song from Dark Souls OST. I enjoy the series because they are a joy to play. That should be all the reason anyone needs, but I could spend more time than is prudent pouring out my love for the series.

My wtf though, is why do people enjoy the PVP in these games so much. I know why the complete dicks like it, but not so much the regular people.

I get zero satisfaction in killing an invader, no sense of having overcome an obstacle. I have zero desire to invade another person and mess with them either.

Fights are either over in 5 seconds or less, or become a game of hide and seek. I mean I prefer that because of chameleon etc. providing some funny moments but it got old quick.

While I'm not the type of person who get's a tremendously large amount of pleasure from finally beating something I just wasted 20 minutes continually trying to kill/get passed, beating the few bosses I did in Demon's Souls was pretty fun, however I failed to see the point of the invading thing. Every time I got invaded I just quit.

I mean what's the point?

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Then you'll never get it. You're just one of the people who doesn't enjoy the Souls games. That's that. I'm playing the same game you played, and I adore it.

I will say though, it's not just the difficulty that makes Souls different. It is also very atmospheric, immersive in it's lack of instruction and subtle narrative, implies many details of the universe in item descriptions rather than states them, has a prodigious quantity of different weapons, has a very fluid system for builds that allows a lot of versatility, has sympathetic but understated NPCs, hidden areas and traps to test your attention, etc. It's brilliant.

I disagree about the items though. If anything, you're only playing properly the first time, when you don't know what's what. All of my runs now begin with a quick run through the Catacombs, defeat Pinwheel, retrieve the Covetous Silver Serpent Ring for more souls, then fighting my way out, at which point I'm generally level 20 and saved a few souls for the Seal of Artorias so I can farm Forest Hunters. I then go through the Valley of the Drakes and come up to the Undead Parish and Andre through Darkroot Garden, buy the seal, kill Sif and farm a few souls for pyromancy or whatever I need, and all of this before the Taurus Demon. That's not playing properly. That's playing with foreknowledge gained from previous playthroughs. The first time, you're supposed to find whatever weapon drops, improvise your build, explore but inevitably not find everything, die a number of times to every boss before even figuring out what tactic to use, etc. That's the real experience. After a number of playthroughs or looking at the Wiki (if that's what you like to do), you can still appreciate everything else, but you won't get that sense of discovery and the challenge of figuring things out that comes with the first handful of runs.

EDIT: PvP: I will say it could be better, but I still enjoy it somewhat. The main gripe I have with it is that it discourages low level PvP by having you able to invade basically anyone of a higher level than you, and the cost and accessibility being pretty high for new players. Basically, you get 3 Cracked Red Eye Orbs, which is 3 invasions per low level character who figures out how to use them. That's not much. I'd love to invade, and have other people invade me, constantly throughout the game during just normal play, but humanity's hard to come by for new players and invasion items even moreso, ensuring that the majority of invaders are overgeared veterans - and they have to be, because they could by blind chance encounter an SL120 Havel-wearing Int build. It discourages the sort of fluid, in-level PvP I'd like to see become more of the experience.

And have an Arena for straight PvP as well, why not. And have the Forest for people who want to fight 3 people at a time. I'd just like it if characters of all levels could invade in all areas and get a fun match at little or no cost to themselves, which is basically what Darkwraiths do, except they have to have beaten the Four Kings to have that ability and will therefore be pretty fucking good at that stage.

But please for the love of god, the lag in Australia is UNTENNABLE.

 

[KOMega]

Demon souls and Dark souls are sorta famous for being hard, but they aren't really hard at all, at least for me.

After thinking a while, I think at first fights in darksouls are like tense knife fights, where you and the enemy kinda circle each other slowly and take jabs at each other. This is how the first couple fights are like instead of just rushing in with sword in hand swiping at everything you see.

The game really rewards you for exploring and acquiring knowledge. And always gives you ways of learning about enemies and the environment. The game never sucker punches you completely out of the blue. There are always telltale signs.

Also, equipment, while important, doesn't make or break you when getting through the game, although it will hep you a lot. Hell I went out of my way to go and fight the bosses out of the "supposed" order that you are supposed to fight them. Decided to fight the stray demon and qualaag first (after the asylum of course.) before even considering going to the Taurus demon. (actually I wanna try fighting the four kings asap now.) This was all pretty much with just starting gear.

Hell, once you are at sen's fortress and you meet your first mimic (which you have to get past, unless you ignore it), it will drop a lightning spear which is pretty strong for a long long while.

Valley of Defilement... i don't think there's a single place in a video game that has as much mindfuck, RUN AWAY!! and screaming involved from me... its just downright creepy, not only just killing you with its mere presence, but thinking about what happened there... *twitches*

For one of my playthroughs I decided to make a luck build. There is only one weapon in the game that scales off luck and it's crafted out of the soul of the vally's last boss. made it a point to get through that asap before anything else if possible.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

If you're not close enough clicking the button spins the camera around in the opposite direction. It's only a minor annoyance, but it did cause me to die a fair few times when I shouldn't have.

You speak only a half-truth. Clicking R3 while there's nothing to target will snap the camera behind your back. The camera will only snap in the opposite direction if you're facing the opposite direction.

Your 'minor annoyance' is literally nothing more than a serious user error.

 

[Ikasury]

snark

Well, if, after the first time you get caught unaware by a mimic you don't adapt and go at it ever so carefully, there must be something off with how you go at things in the first place. Honestly - the first time one encounters a mimic and doesn't even know they exist, you're just not bound to forget that experience, that feeling of absolute and utter dread. Not to mention jumping into holes, rolling off walls or riding elevators to the very top, even though the floor is caked in blood.

As for Maiden Astrea - that's hands down one of the most confusing, disturbing and 'different' boss fights I've seen so far. When Dark Souls came out, I thought it was excellent that they did away with the Nexus, but now, after having gone back to play/live/breathe/smoke Demon's Souls, I must say that the Nexus is just pure awesome in a box. It's a safe zone, a personal space mostly detached from all the suffering and dying and killing and having to be very careful; in the Nexus, you can die at absolutely no cost... fling yourself off the top balcony, why not? I like to have options, even when I have to discover all of them myself.

oh yes... that elevator... i remember that... and feeling queasy as i kept refering back to the holy book and realizing i HAD to get on it T.T Dark Souls... you really... really... REALLY just hate me don't you? i know its there, i know what its going to do... but i HAVE TOO!! *cries* same with the Mimics after the first one... i won't lie... that first time not knowing they existed... was terrifying x.x suppose that's why i thought it impressive someone stood there and stared at it realizing they breathe... because i know i couldn't... either one trauma or another wouldn't let me sit still long enough to notice XD

Maiden Astraea holds a special place in my heart... right next to the Asuka from EVA and and the Skull Knight from Berserk... she's... i don't even know *twitches* and the plague-babies... oh the plague-babies... *squeaks* just the amounts of implication when you take that extra second to actually THINK about what must have happened to her... its horrifying x.x i mean other characters in the series' get it too... but i don't think ANYONE tops Maiden Astraea... suppose that's one part of Dark Souls that kinda... 'let me down', there wasn't anyone quite like her... sure that one chick who 'kinda' had a bit of mindfuck... and thinking too hard on Pricilla is painful (if you get past the fluffy) but really... no... no one comes close to that amount of disturbed *twitches*

and the Nexus... funny you call it 'safe'... i suppose it IS, theoretically, but it also had the looming sense of DOOM!! because you couldn't leave... you were stuck there, either to go get killed, kill yourself, or actually beat the demons... none of these options were pretty... and then even if you just DO NOTHING you eventually go insane and BECOME a demon... so either way, you're just screwed in this dark depressing overbearing place with someone that you can REALLY feel sorry for (the Lady in Black)... only to reach the bottom of the Valley of Defilement and want to throw yourself off the top floor a few times but still not feeling like you've come out clean... *twiches* its... hopeless... downright HOPELESS!! even when you 'beat' the big bad, you come back with the sense of 'oh that was a dream... start over' -.- *screams* aurgh!! whereas Dark Souls, ironically, has lots of 'hope', while the bonfires aren't 'safe' they give you the 'hope' of being safe for one more minute... its probably because they lack that overbearing sense of dread the Nexus had... hmm...

 

[Ikasury]

Valley of Defilement... i don't think there's a single place in a video game that has as much mindfuck, RUN AWAY!! and screaming involved from me... its just downright creepy, not only just killing you with its mere presence, but thinking about what happened there... *twitches*

For one of my playthroughs I decided to make a luck build. There is only one weapon in the game that scales off luck and it's crafted out of the soul of the vally's last boss. made it a point to get through that asap before anything else if possible.

i LOVE the Blue Blood Sword... it is my favorite weapon, not just cause it can be the strongest single hander in the game but because if you haven't noticed i love Maiden Astraea... for the sheer Gainax level amounts of mind!fuck involved with her... and its not just luck, it gets stronger with all stats, luck just doing the most, and its a sweet sword that's light with a 6 hit combo... *hugs* so much love for this blade... so much trauma to get it T.T totally worth it~

 

[Pulse]

I thought all the posts poo pooing demons souls before didn't appreciate challenge, then I tried it.

The gameplay was just awful, I was pretty disappointed.

Every enemy is defeated by either
1. Diving behind them and insta stabbing.
2. Blocking and circling, and when you attack all you need to do is mash r1.

You die because it's either
1. The first time you came across the enemy type/trap/ambush.
2. Tried to hurry things up.

And when you die you just need to do it all again, but this time you know a rock rolls down a set of stairs 15 minutes in....woop.

The animations aren't doing it any favours either.

Story (and characters) is pretty non existent (compared to other rpgs at least).

I can see the appeal though. It's done enough to convince me to look at any sequels they make, I'm just glad i didn't pay any money for this one, I stopped playing it even though my free psn plus trial runs out in 20 days.

 

[Windcaler]

Story (and characters) is pretty non existent (compared to other rpgs at least).

I can see the appeal though. It's done enough to convince me to look at any sequels they make, I'm just glad i didn't pay any money for this one, I stopped playing it even though my free psn plus trial runs out in 20 days.

I never had any issues with animations or anything on the gameplay perspective. However I did feel the same thing you did on my first playthrough. I thought the story was bare bones to non-existant but as dark souls players told me it had a deep and rich world I started to wonder about it. The part that really made me start looking for the lore was when I thought about my encounter with ceaseless discharge. He only attacks you if you attack him (and if he kills you he leaves you alone) or if you pick up the gold hemmed set in his room. This just seemed to odd to me to let go. There was no gameplay reason for it in the same context of other games. That's when I put on my detective hat and started looking into the lore

Over several weeks I pieced together various bits and pieces found in item descriptions and off of developer interviews. Eventually I found the answers to my questions that made sense in the context of the story. However I also found that deep and rich world other dark souls fans had told me about. Today Im kind of a lore junky. Im always looking and debating about various story elements in the game

I suppose what Im trying to say is if you don't go looking for it Dark souls does seem shallow when it comes to story. However when you do go looking its one of the deeper and more interesting games that's come out in recent years

 

[MammothBlade]

If it was just endless punishment, I would have gotten bored quickly... but no, it's more than that. It's an experience worth its weight in souls. The story and environments are pretty damn good no matter how cliche they might sound. They're some of the richest I've ever seen in a game, and exploring them is entertaining to say the least.

Similarly, it can be hard the first time, but defeating each boss is much more fulfilling, and lets you progress to a new environment which will bring new challenges.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

What can i say? You forgot to mention the multiplayer aspect is just a griefing tool and more often than not you will have zero chance of beating the people who come to attack you. The game has attracted far too many cheating bastards and thats on the pretense that the game is actually difficult and not just a simplistic buggy mess (which i think it is). But before i upset some fanboy and get another warning i'll wander off and leave it at that

 

[Exius Xavarus]

You speak only a half-truth. Clicking R3 while there's nothing to target will snap the camera behind your back. The camera will only snap in the opposite direction if you're facing the opposite direction.

Your 'minor annoyance' is literally nothing more than a serious user error.

I've been facing enemies before and it's not locked on & span round instead, leaving me open to attack.

If a game is so punishing it can't afford any such "minor annoyances"

Then something is wrong with the game itself. I've tested this every which way I could possibly try to spin my camera around. Clicking R3 only targets enemies or spins the camera in the same direction I'm facing. At many different distances with different enemies, the camera still only spins to face the same direction I am.

Either something is wrong, or you're committing a user error that you're not seeing. Randomly spinning the camera in the opposite direction is not an intended feature of the game.

 

[Pulse]

I never had any issues with animations or anything on the gameplay perspective. However I did feel the same thing you did on my first playthrough. I thought the story was bare bones to non-existant but as dark souls players told me it had a deep and rich world I started to wonder about it. The part that really made me start looking for the lore was when I thought about my encounter with ceaseless discharge. He only attacks you if you attack him (and if he kills you he leaves you alone) or if you pick up the gold hemmed set in his room. This just seemed to odd to me to let go. There was no gameplay reason for it in the same context of other games. That's when I put on my detective hat and started looking into the lore

Over several weeks I pieced together various bits and pieces found in item descriptions and off of developer interviews. Eventually I found the answers to my questions that made sense in the context of the story. However I also found that deep and rich world other dark souls fans had told me about. Today Im kind of a lore junky. Im always looking and debating about various story elements in the game

I suppose what I'm trying to say is if you don't go looking for it Dark souls does seem shallow when it comes to story. However when you do go looking its one of the deeper and more interesting games that's come out in recent years

I see what you're saying, but for me personally I don't look into lore. I don't listen to developer interviews. In order for me to really care about a video game story it needs to influence choices or for my choices to influence it, or at least motivate me with a begining, middle and end.

The story is lacking, so my motivation then transfers onto meeting and beating different enemy types. Visually they're different, but with the limited combat there's no variety challenge reward on that front either.

I suppose if you like old school rpgs it isn't as jarring, but I come to RPGs via MassEffect, Fallout 3, Dragons dogma, all have definite choices, with good and fair gameplay and no grinding necessary.

I need it to deliver either on a strong story or gameplay, demons souls has neither IMO. What demons souls has is an extremely strong setting and overall feel.

 

[Severian]

I find Demon's Souls to be a bit more difficult than Dark Souls but they are both entirely awesome. I love the sense of progression and the variety that the game throws at you. I miss the old days when your hand isn't held from place to place in a game. These titles have that. There are so many things in the game that you have to figure out it is just unreal.