I find the lack of intelligence depressing

[Private Custard]

I did read what you said, you said the 0 is at the end. I said you don't just go from left to right. Try to be a little less condescending, it's unbecoming.

Yeah, you read one thing that I said, ignoring all the other words that were there for a purpose. No, they were not just filler, they actually meant something. So as I said, read peoples posts before quoting them.

Ok.

0 is the correct answer.

No it isn't.

Do the equation you are given. Not the one you wish you had.

This kinda was filler.

The equation you are given has the x0 at the end.

Doesn't matter, order of operations. You do the 1*0 first then the addition and subtraction.

Not the beginning,

Doesn't matter, order of operations. You do the 1*0 first then the addition and subtraction.

not in brackets

Doesn't matter, order of operations. You do the 1*0 first then the addition and subtraction.

so yes, 0 is the correct answer.

This was actually more filler.

Interesting how you decide to declare the one thing that ruins your entire argument as "filler". Perhaps because you know it proves you wrong.
So no, "Do the equation you are given. Not the one you wish you had." is not filler. Its the entire fucking point of the post and the thing you refuse to understand.
No matter how many times you say "Doesn't matter, order of operations." it does not mean shit unless the person asking the question specifies what system you are to use. If they do not then you are making an assumption that they want you to use PEDMAS. So you are adding your own personal spin to the equation that does not belong.
So no, you do go left to right as that is the equation you have, not the one you want.
Final answer: 0.

You're almost as stubborn as you are wrong.

 

[Jordi]

What do you mean "it can be taken in two ways"? Multiplication and division have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. There is no ambiguity if you know the rules. Which apparently many people don't.

Well, apart from Division having precedence over Multiplication.(BODMAS/PEDMAS/...and..PODMAS I think), it doesn't follow normal notation.

No, it doesn't. They have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. Check basically any source. These are the first couple of results on Google: (you can often search for "left" to quickly jump to the part where it says I'm right)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations
http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops.htm
http://www.math.com/school/subject2/lessons/S2U1L2GL.html
http://www.mathsisfun.com/operation-order-pemdas.html

Usually they'll sling a divide sign "÷" to confuse the matter.

The question should be wrote as 48/2(9+3) or 48÷2*(9+3), depending on whether you're using mathematical notation or computer notation. Equally, a calculator works it out by L-R rather than parenthesized operands.

Actually, it really really doesn't matter what symbol (if any) you use for multiplication and division. As long as they represent those operations, the order is defined as said above.

But as it's such an early learnt lesson, people will defend to the death their answer.

See, this is what bothers me. If people just learnt it wrong or remembered it wrong, I wouldn't mind so much. Apparently there are a ton of people who will defend their wrong beliefs to the death, instead of just Googling for two seconds and finding out that in fact all those people telling them that they were wrong were actually right, and continue living your life just a little bit more knowledgeable than before.

Equally, I've got a fair coin. I flip it 49 times and 49 times it turns up as a head. What chance is there that it turns up a head on the next flip?

Half. It will always be half. Coins have no memory. The chance of making that run is 1/2^49 or similar, but the next flip is treated without knowledge of the past ones.

And I bet at least 5 people will violently disagree with that answer.

And those 5 people would be wrong. So what is your point? Like I said, I don't mind so much that a lot of people would intuitively say that it is about time that the coin landed on the other side. They are wrong, but not infuriatingly so. But why on earth would people violently disagree after being explained the answer? That is just stupid.

 

[Kurt Cristal]

No, we're not arguing semantics, and I'm not saying I'm better than a cashier. I'm saying my job is better than a cashier's, and everyone who has anything resembling financial security's job is better than a cashier's. I've been a cashier before. Trust me. Cashiers agree with me.

Cashiers don't apply mathematics. Engineers, biologists, physicians, financiers, physicists, accountants, nurses, architects, etc. (I could continue for pages) do. The first example off the top of your head was a poor example. Some people would say that your example was notoriously bad. Comedians have been making jokes about how bad cashiers have become at math since the advent of computerized registers for at least two and a half decades, but you said, "even cashiers" as if they were an example of someone whom everyone recognizes as using math a lot. You said something that makes no sense, and someone else pointed it out. Breathe. Calm down. No need to get so upset.

You're arguing that math is stupid. I'm arguing that any productive job that pays a comfortable wage (outside the arts) requires it. I'm arguing on behalf of knowledge. You're arguing on behalf of ignorance. I'm not positively sure, but I think I'm on the right side here.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. Also, I would use the word egregiously bad, if that's what you mean. ^_- But point taken. Also, just for the record, I was not saying that "math is stupid". I was in Advanced Placement Calculus and on the Math Team in High School. For me, being so knowledgeable of advanced material, I just felt that it's just "acceptable" to make mistakes like this. I'm trying to state that there are different forms of intelligence. For instance, I know an Art History major. Zero applicable life-skills learned, but her knowledge of art theory and perspective can dance circles around my head. However I'm not stupid for not understanding art theory. So, really, I'm not arguing with you. I'm arguing with the original post that if you're not good at math specifically, it insinuated that you must be dumb at everything else.

 

[PhiMed]

No, we're not arguing semantics, and I'm not saying I'm better than a cashier. I'm saying my job is better than a cashier's, and everyone who has anything resembling financial security's job is better than a cashier's. I've been a cashier before. Trust me. Cashiers agree with me.

Cashiers don't apply mathematics. Engineers, biologists, physicians, financiers, physicists, accountants, nurses, architects, etc. (I could continue for pages) do. The first example off the top of your head was a poor example. Some people would say that your example was notoriously bad. Comedians have been making jokes about how bad cashiers have become at math since the advent of computerized registers for at least two and a half decades, but you said, "even cashiers" as if they were an example of someone whom everyone recognizes as using math a lot. You said something that makes no sense, and someone else pointed it out. Breathe. Calm down. No need to get so upset.

You're arguing that math is stupid. I'm arguing that any productive job that pays a comfortable wage (outside the arts) requires it. I'm arguing on behalf of knowledge. You're arguing on behalf of ignorance. I'm not positively sure, but I think I'm on the right side here.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. Also, I would use the word egregiously bad, if that's what you mean. ^_- But point taken. Also, just for the record, I was not saying that "math is stupid". I was in Advanced Placement Calculus and on the Math Team in High School. For me, being so knowledgeable of advanced material, I just felt that it's just "acceptable" to make mistakes like this. I'm trying to state that there are different forms of intelligence. For instance, I know an Art History major. Zero applicable life-skills learned, but her knowledge of art theory and perspective can dance circles around my head. However I'm not stupid for not understanding art theory. So, really, I'm not arguing with you. I'm arguing with the original post that if you're not good at math specifically, it insinuated that you must be dumb at everything else.

No, I meant notoriously. My next sentence was about comedians making jokes at cashiers' expense. Those jokes would fall flat if it wasn't pretty much universally agreed upon by most people in Western society that cashiers' math skills are quite often sub-par, despite the fact that they handle money. Thus, there is a widespread stereotype that cashiers are bad at math. Or, to put it another way, cashiers are notoriously bad at math. But now we are discussing semantics.

I wasn't saying that advanced math skills and intelligence are inseparable. I'm pretty knowledgeable about mathematics, too. I took AP Calculus, and was the first person in the history of my county to make a 5 on the AP test. I was on the math team, too. In fact, they waived the requirement that you had to be in the math club for me so that I could be on the team. I went on to minor in mathematics when I got my Baccalaureate (I majored in Biochemistry). I've taken 4 semester of Calculus, 3 semesters of differential equations, 1 semester of abstract algebra, a semester of non-Euclidean geometry, a semester of matrix algebra, and a semester of math history.

We're not talking about vector integrals here. We're talking about basic notation. Your artsy friend would get this question correct. You might not know the ins and outs of artistic theory, but you could probably look at a portrait and say, "yep, that's a painting" instead of "yep, that's a firetruck". That's the level of knowledge this question is testing, and I agree with the OP that it's kind of sad that so many people got it wrong. I'm not surprised. I work in a public hospital, so I have no delusions about the level of education of the populace. It's still sad, though.

 

[Kurt Cristal]

No, I meant notoriously. My next sentence was about comedians making jokes at cashiers' expense. Those jokes would fall flat if it wasn't pretty much universally agreed upon by most people in Western society that cashiers' math skills are quite often sub-par, despite the fact that they handle money. Thus, there is a widespread stereotype that cashiers are bad at math. Or, to put it another way, cashiers are notoriously bad at math. But now we are discussing semantics.

I wasn't saying that advanced math skills and intelligence are inseparable. I'm pretty knowledgeable about mathematics, too. I took AP Calculus, and was the first person in the history of my county to make a 5 on the AP test. I was on the math team, too. In fact, they waived the requirement that you had to be in the math club for me so that I could be on the team. I went on to minor in mathematics when I got my Baccalaureate (I majored in Biochemistry). I've taken 4 semester of Calculus, 3 semesters of differential equations, 1 semester of abstract algebra, a semester of non-Euclidean geometry, a semester of matrix algebra, and a semester of math history.

We're not talking about vector integrals here. We're talking about basic notation. Your artsy friend would get this question correct. You might not know the ins and outs of artistic theory, but you could probably look at a portrait and say, "yep, that's a painting" instead of "yep, that's a firetruck". That's the level of knowledge this question is testing, and I agree with the OP that it's kind of sad that so many people got it wrong. I'm not surprised. I work in a public hospital, so I have no delusions about the level of education of the populace. It's still sad, though.

A 5? Damn. I got a 1. A friend of mine who went on to be an engineer got a 1 as well. The smartest person in my class got a 2. Ouch.

Anyway, no, I have no delusions about the level of education in the world either. I'm currently working retail while my Production degree rots. I had a customer come in who asked how much a movie was when the price was very clearly pronounced. But alas, I told her, "It's $19.99". She replies, "TEN DOLLAHS?" -_-; "No, it's 20". She started at me for 5 seconds before SOMETHING clicked in her head. What, I don't know. But she sortof just left after that. Also we later found out several months later that she's 36.

So I guess my lack of acceptance that you could be stupid for getting basic notation wrong stems from my experience with customers who BSOD when I state an EXPRESSION.

 

[Ando85]

My thoughts on this topic are that perhaps it really isn't a lack of intelligence. Intelligence can be defined as your ability to solve problems and catch on to new concepts and ideas. For example, a lot of us who answered this question wrong haven't had to use the order of operations since high school. If we were taught this now and then had to answer the question our intelligence would be based on using the information we just learned correctly and to understand it without too much difficulty, not recalling something we haven't used for ages.

 

[AdumbroDeus]

What do you mean "it can be taken in two ways"? Multiplication and division have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. There is no ambiguity if you know the rules. Which apparently many people don't.

Well, apart from Division having precedence over Multiplication.(BODMAS/PEDMAS/...and..PODMAS I think), it doesn't follow normal notation.

No, it doesn't. They have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. Check basically any source. These are the first couple of results on Google: (you can often search for "left" to quickly jump to the part where it says I'm right)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations
http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops.htm
http://www.math.com/school/subject2/lessons/S2U1L2GL.html
http://www.mathsisfun.com/operation-order-pemdas.html

Left to right That's more convention then rule, because the properties of the various operations mean that that the order of execution of things with equal priority doesn't matter. All you need to do is treat subtraction like adding a negative number and division like a fraction and the order which you operate on things with equal priority becomes irrelevant.

You need to break that convention all the time to simplify.

 

[Jordi]

What do you mean "it can be taken in two ways"? Multiplication and division have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. There is no ambiguity if you know the rules. Which apparently many people don't.

Well, apart from Division having precedence over Multiplication.(BODMAS/PEDMAS/...and..PODMAS I think), it doesn't follow normal notation.

No, it doesn't. They have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. Check basically any source. These are the first couple of results on Google: (you can often search for "left" to quickly jump to the part where it says I'm right)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations
http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops.htm
http://www.math.com/school/subject2/lessons/S2U1L2GL.html
http://www.mathsisfun.com/operation-order-pemdas.html

Left to right That's more convention then rule, because the properties of the various operations mean that that the order of execution of things with equal priority doesn't matter. All you need to do is treat subtraction like adding a negative number and division like a fraction and the order which you operate on things with equal priority becomes irrelevant.

You need to break that convention all the time to simplify.

Left to right and the order of operations are rules when it comes to getting the right outcome in a problem. If you have the problem "1 + 2 + 3 * 4" then you can also do the first addition before the multiplication. And you might even find that easier, because then you can simplify to "3 + 3 * 4 = 3 * 5". But in that case the order of those two operations doesn't affect the outcome of the problem.

The rules about the order of operations are basically there because it let's us omit braces most of the time. We could say that all operations have the same priority and you can evaluate them in any order you want, as long as you only evaluate things that are between braces together. In that case, you would say something like "(1 + (2 + (3 * 4)))" or "((1 + 2) + (2 * 4))". But we don't like how that looks, so we made the priority rules so that we can omit most braces.
In the case of 48/2(9+3) the confusion is about where the braces should be. Given the rules (including "left to right" for equal priority operations) you should get ((48/2)*(9+3)). The people who don't know these rules properly and think that multiplication goes before division (or that you can evaluate them right to left or something), think that it should be (48 / (2 * (9+3))).

So the order in this case does matter, and the "left to right" rule cannot be just a convention, because the outcome depends on it. You are right about subtraction just being addition of a negation, and division being multiplication with an inversion, but that actually doesn't completely solve the problem if you are still confused about the order of operations. In that case it would either be ((48 * (2[sup]-1[/sup]) * (9+3)) or (48 * ((2 * (9+3)))[sup]-1[/sup]). But I admit that there might be less confusion if you write the problem similar to this in the first place: 48*2[sup]-1[/sup](9+3).

 

[Appleshampoo]

I cannot think of even one reason this would EVER come up in real life, so honestly I don't care if I got it wrong.

 

[Ashcrexl]

i thought the answer was 410, but that wasnt one of the choices.

math is HARD!

 

[TeeBs]

Isn't the average IQ always going up? I mean 100 is the average IQ no matter what timeframe you live in, but I have always heard that scienctist have constantly been changing what it means to be 100, usually going up. You may think its depressing we got this wrong but I would guess that the poll would have been worst, hell alot worse if we did it back in oh lets just say 1950s for no particular reason.

 

[AdumbroDeus]

What do you mean "it can be taken in two ways"? Multiplication and division have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. There is no ambiguity if you know the rules. Which apparently many people don't.

Well, apart from Division having precedence over Multiplication.(BODMAS/PEDMAS/...and..PODMAS I think), it doesn't follow normal notation.

No, it doesn't. They have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. Check basically any source. These are the first couple of results on Google: (you can often search for "left" to quickly jump to the part where it says I'm right)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations
http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops.htm
http://www.math.com/school/subject2/lessons/S2U1L2GL.html
http://www.mathsisfun.com/operation-order-pemdas.html

Left to right That's more convention then rule, because the properties of the various operations mean that that the order of execution of things with equal priority doesn't matter. All you need to do is treat subtraction like adding a negative number and division like a fraction and the order which you operate on things with equal priority becomes irrelevant.

You need to break that convention all the time to simplify.

Left to right and the order of operations are rules when it comes to getting the right outcome in a problem. If you have the problem "1 + 2 + 3 * 4" then you can also do the first addition before the multiplication. And you might even find that easier, because then you can simplify to "3 + 3 * 4 = 3 * 5". But in that case the order of those two operations doesn't affect the outcome of the problem.

The rules about the order of operations are basically there because it let's us omit braces most of the time. We could say that all operations have the same priority and you can evaluate them in any order you want, as long as you only evaluate things that are between braces together. In that case, you would say something like "(1 + (2 + (3 * 4)))" or "((1 + 2) + (2 * 4))". But we don't like how that looks, so we made the priority rules so that we can omit most braces.
In the case of 48/2(9+3) the confusion is about where the braces should be. Given the rules (including "left to right" for equal priority operations) you should get ((48/2)*(9+3)). The people who don't know these rules properly and think that multiplication goes before division (or that you can evaluate them right to left or something), think that it should be (48 / (2 * (9+3))).

So the order in this case does matter, and the "left to right" rule cannot be just a convention, because the outcome depends on it. You are right about subtraction just being addition of a negation, and division being multiplication with an inversion, but that actually doesn't completely solve the problem if you are still confused about the order of operations. In that case it would either be ((48 * (2[sup]-1[/sup]) * (9+3)) or (48 * ((2 * (9+3)))[sup]-1[/sup]). But I admit that there might be less confusion if you write the problem similar to this in the first place: 48*2[sup]-1[/sup](9+3).

Except it only mattered when you didn't know that division (or at least transforming division into multiplication) goes before multiplication. The issue would still exist if the problem were (9+3)48/2, though the answer would be completely different, going from left to right and believing multiplication and division have equal priority would result in just as wrong an answer. Namely ((9+3)48)/2 instead of (9+3)(48/2).


That is why it's convention and not a rule. It doesn't actually change the answer, the only time it does is when it's tied by multiplication or subtraction (in which case it must be transformed first) or when ordering means brackets.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Don't get your ego to big

 

[Jordi]

What do you mean "it can be taken in two ways"? Multiplication and division have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. There is no ambiguity if you know the rules. Which apparently many people don't.

Well, apart from Division having precedence over Multiplication.(BODMAS/PEDMAS/...and..PODMAS I think), it doesn't follow normal notation.

No, it doesn't. They have equal priority and should be evaluated left to right. Check basically any source. These are the first couple of results on Google: (you can often search for "left" to quickly jump to the part where it says I'm right)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations
http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops.htm
http://www.math.com/school/subject2/lessons/S2U1L2GL.html
http://www.mathsisfun.com/operation-order-pemdas.html

Left to right That's more convention then rule, because the properties of the various operations mean that that the order of execution of things with equal priority doesn't matter. All you need to do is treat subtraction like adding a negative number and division like a fraction and the order which you operate on things with equal priority becomes irrelevant.

You need to break that convention all the time to simplify.

Left to right and the order of operations are rules when it comes to getting the right outcome in a problem. If you have the problem "1 + 2 + 3 * 4" then you can also do the first addition before the multiplication. And you might even find that easier, because then you can simplify to "3 + 3 * 4 = 3 * 5". But in that case the order of those two operations doesn't affect the outcome of the problem.

The rules about the order of operations are basically there because it let's us omit braces most of the time. We could say that all operations have the same priority and you can evaluate them in any order you want, as long as you only evaluate things that are between braces together. In that case, you would say something like "(1 + (2 + (3 * 4)))" or "((1 + 2) + (2 * 4))". But we don't like how that looks, so we made the priority rules so that we can omit most braces.
In the case of 48/2(9+3) the confusion is about where the braces should be. Given the rules (including "left to right" for equal priority operations) you should get ((48/2)*(9+3)). The people who don't know these rules properly and think that multiplication goes before division (or that you can evaluate them right to left or something), think that it should be (48 / (2 * (9+3))).

So the order in this case does matter, and the "left to right" rule cannot be just a convention, because the outcome depends on it. You are right about subtraction just being addition of a negation, and division being multiplication with an inversion, but that actually doesn't completely solve the problem if you are still confused about the order of operations. In that case it would either be ((48 * (2[sup]-1[/sup]) * (9+3)) or (48 * ((2 * (9+3)))[sup]-1[/sup]). But I admit that there might be less confusion if you write the problem similar to this in the first place: 48*2[sup]-1[/sup](9+3).

Except it only mattered when you didn't know that division (or at least transforming division into multiplication) goes before multiplication. The issue would still exist if the problem were (9+3)48/2, though the answer would be completely different, going from left to right and believing multiplication and division have equal priority would result in just as wrong an answer. Namely ((9+3)48)/2 instead of (9+3)(48/2).


That is why it's convention and not a rule. It doesn't actually change the answer, the only time it does is when it's tied by multiplication or subtraction (in which case it must be transformed first) or when ordering means brackets.

What? Why would you think that (9+3)48/2 gives a different result than 48/2(9+3)? Seriously, apply the rules that you will find everywhere on the internet (see my earlier post for references) and have hopefully learned in school:

(9+3)48/2
12*48/2 (brackets first)
576/2 (multiplication and division are tied, so go from left to right)
288

48/2(9+3)
48/2*12 (brackets first)
24*12 (multiplication and division are tied, so go from left to right)
288

If in the second problem you do the multiplication first, you get a different result. Because every sane person ever wants an expression of a mathematical problem to mean exactly one thing, they made a rule to prevent that from happening. That rule is that you do these things from left to right. You can say that it's "just a convention", but think about it: does that really make sense to you? Surely you realize that it is desirable that one expression has one meaning? Why would mathematicians have said: "don't worry about it, just apply those operations in whatever the hell order you want, we don't care about the results anyway."? Also, where are you getting the idea that this is just a convention and not a rule from?

 

[AdumbroDeus]

huh, ok senior moment there because they're essentially tied via multiplacation. I swear, some days I don't know where I place my head.


But the point still stands if it's to protect against people who don't know order of operations making mistakes, it's a convention and doesn't change the results when order of operations is properly applied, it's a convention, not a rule.

 

[ZtH]

I find the OP's lack of faith in people disturbing....


Really I think it's silly to be so judgemental when they probably only gave the problem a cursory glance and clicked the first option that seemed right without actually going through it. I almost missed the - but that's because I took the time out to read through the whole thing.

 

[MikailCaboose]

Well, I'll admit that when I saw "1X0" I immediately jumped to "0", but then after I went for the answer I noticed the absence of parenthesis. It's always the simplest of things that people screw up.

Then I have to wonder if any were in the mind of the Asch test...