I, for the life of me, cannot understand the hatred directed at JRPGs...

[Savagezion]

People who vocally dislike the entire JRPG genre have generally not played any JRPGs.

This. JRPGs come in all shapes and sizes. The generalizations about them are just funny.

Oh, the irony in that generalizing statement. I have played a lot of JRPGs and like some but I do find them annoying and don't consider them RPGs. As well, there is some validity to the phrase "exception to the rule". I consider them adventure games with RPG elements, personally.

However, common themes do present themselves in many/most JRPGs.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

People who vocally dislike the entire JRPG genre have generally not played any JRPGs.

This. JRPGs come in all shapes and sizes. The generalizations about them are just funny.

Oh, the irony in that generalizing statement. I have played a lot of JRPGs and like some but I do find them annoying and don't consider them RPGs. As well, there is some validity to the phrase "exception to the rule". I consider them adventure games with RPG elements, personally.

However, common themes do present themselves in many/most JRPGs.

There are common tropes or themes in anything. The idea that JRPGs are anything special in this regard is silly (I'm not talking to you here, just a common argument I see against them). I like fantasy games, but I'd love to see a setting without elves. Or a reduction in the use of the theme that humans are a threat/are taking over a place (whether it be pushing out a race like the elves or the Asari). I'll give you "many", but not "most". Most JRPGs are never localized. How can we claim to know anything about them (unless you live in Japan or import)?

 

[Savagezion]

People who vocally dislike the entire JRPG genre have generally not played any JRPGs.

This. JRPGs come in all shapes and sizes. The generalizations about them are just funny.

Oh, the irony in that generalizing statement. I have played a lot of JRPGs and like some but I do find them annoying and don't consider them RPGs. As well, there is some validity to the phrase "exception to the rule". I consider them adventure games with RPG elements, personally.

However, common themes do present themselves in many/most JRPGs.

There are common tropes or themes in anything. The idea that JRPGs are anything special in this regard is silly (I'm not talking to you here, just a common argument I see against them).

That is why it is perfectly valid to dislike any genre of game. I find that many people who are vocal about their disliking of JRPGs is based on the fact that they have played JRPGs.

I like fantasy games, but I'd love to see a setting without elves. Or a reduction in the use of the theme that humans are a threat/are taking over a place (whether it be pushing out a race like the elves or the Asari). I'll giv you "many", but not "most". Most JRPGs are never localized. How can we claim to know anything about them (unless you live in Japan or import)?

Ok, then most of the ones that make it to the west. I could write a list of 10 things to expect out of any JRPG before you sit down to play it and every one will hit at least 5-6, most will hit at least 8. That isn't necessarily a bad thing though if you like the things on the list, but if you don't...

My comment wasn't an attack on JRPGs, just a statement. People who don't like sports games tend to share common reasons for their distaste for them. However, those things are the reason people who like it, love them. Same thing really.

I mostly just quoted you and Kahuna Burger to point out the irony in the sentiment to perhaps invoke a reconsideration of opinion. A genre clearly has common themes present in it or else it wouldn't be a genre. As well, people's taste for the genre will vary greatly for a variety of reasons and usually it isn't based on lack of experience with the material.

 

[columbianbacon]

Breaking the flow here, but all of this page so far is what I was wanting before: Honest to god discussion, instead of the generic 'I don't like their style'. Awesome work doods.

 

[PaganAxe]

The only experience I've had is from playing some Final Fantasy games. I've played VIII, X, XII, and XIII. Plus Tactics Advance and A2. XII was the first and best experience from the mainline for me. When I played the other ones, I was somewhat put off by 1) random battles that come out of no where; 2) weapon upgrades requiring parts n stuff that I had to go find (was a huge problem in VIII); 3) the actual combat timing system, VIII and XIII had that "real time" turned based nonsense that I was not a fan of, X had it kinda better with actual turns which made it less frustrating.

Back to XII, the combat in that was very fitting. I could generally see enemies from a good distance away and could bypass them if I wanted to. If they do spot me, I can flee in a manor that didn't waste a lot of time. With my time feeling like it wasn't being wasted as much, I was able to observe some of the aesthetic aspects of the game, particularly the BEAUTIFUL environments.

 

[Dogstile]

Lots of reasons. I have yet to see a JRPG that hasn't had one of these:

- A shit art style
- Annoying characters
- A ridiculous story
- A turn based battle system (forgiveable if done well)
- Random... Fucking... Encounters.

I mean, at most I tolerate Persona 4 and that has pretty much all these things. But the genre in general? Hate it.

 

[Don Savik]

People fear what they do not understand, or what they're no good at playing.

We understand it, its just we don't like it. Its not hard to understand a jrpg. Turn based combat, convoluted story, annoying characters, unnecessary amounts of monologue, and hardly any room for personalization.

Common (ranging from slight majority to nigh ubiquitous) tropes/features found in RPG's made by Japanese companies, which could put off players:

1. Slow paced 'first act' in the game

2. Main character(s) without any redeeming qualities

3. Lack of innovation on turn based battle system, originating from the 80's

4. Poor quality voice acting

5. Poor quality translating, basically a translation that sticks close to the Japanese as it was said, making the dialog awkward.

6. Lack of actually choosing what role you play, either gameplay wise or story. Rare is a jRPG that lets you decide how the characters actually play, and rarer still is the jRPG that lets you choose a protagonist's actions, even if those choices have little to no consequence. That's a big part of the reason why many people play wRPG's, which do those far more often that not.

7. Anime/Japanese visual styles just turn some people off


Granted, several of these are often done deliberately, but I'm sure its not too difficult to imagine why running into too many of these might cause some people to dismiss the "genre".

You win this thread. The problem I have with jrpgs is these horrible tropes that appear in the majority of jrpgs out there. And a lot of them don't seem to care at all towards changing up the formula. You know whats immersion breaking for me? Sitting through hours of cutscene. And not fun cutscene, but TEXT DRIVEN cutscene. Its horrifyingly bad and jrpgs are the worst abuser of this.

 

[Don Savik]

Breaking the flow here, but all of this page so far is what I was wanting before: Honest to god discussion, instead of the generic 'I don't like their style'. Awesome work doods.

The thread is "I for the life of me cannot understand the hatred directed at jrpgs"

what have we done? clarified why there is hatred towards jrpgs with MANY SPECIFIC examples of why the genre fails to appeal to everyone. Not much discussion besides that to be honest.

 

[NickKuroshi0]

It is actually kind of funny on how alot of people are saying the art style is too anime-ish, its just a couple of pictures, just ignore it not that hard try playing the actual game instead of trying to justify why you wont play it.

I personally enjoy the disgaea series for just how many hours you can play it
If the art style is bugging you that much than skip the cutscenes and you will barely run into them, get disgaea and try it you do not have to like it but at least you tryed it.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

here's why (I assume)
The only JRPG they've (probably) played is Final Fantasy.

Hatred for many of the modern JRPGs with poor flat cliche characters, EXTREMELY linear game play (corridor random battles), an auto-battle button (seriously?), and the fact that we cannot micro every single character I can understand...

and this is why.

BUT!

Demon's Souls is technically a JRPG.
Yeah.
You wouldn't think so from playing it, would you?

 

[Savagezion]

Wow, saw an argument a mile away on this one. Not to flame, troll or intentionally rile up anyone, what I hate about these discussions is a constant lack of examples on the dislike party. By examples, I mean what characters in what games do you dislike the personality, and why? Sure, you hate the stories telling, but please tell me exactly what the problem that you have it is, and indeed which story.

I'm not saying anyone has to like the games, or that they are perfect or whatever. It just annoys me that people say 'I don't like the characters in them' and just leave it at that. Explain! Please! Say Tidus is a total douchebag, tell me Squall went too Emo, lay out the fact that Valkyria Chronicles trivialised the actual military in comparison to the Militia with only hinting that the top brass sucks balls (only one incompetant General seen, thank you very much!).

Unfortunately, asking for specific examples about the genre for me is a bit too long of a list. Going into the ones I like would even be a shorter list but still would have around 8-10 examples I would have to explain 1 by 1 in depth which I am not really up for atm. First off, even in all the JRPGs I like, none of the characters are that relatable, particularly interesting, or both. While the character archetype may be interesting, the actual character isn't. The 2 main problems with their characters are:

1. They either simply don't explore them (sometimes to let the player know they are a side character and not to pay them much attention or to make them seem 'mysterious' either way, it robs the character of personality)

OR

2. They shove their thoughts and emotions down your throat. Every cutscene I have to be reminded that my protagonist is tormented/in love/etc. No emotion is ever conveyed subtly. They may make a subtle gesture towards another character like handing them a pendant but the game drag it out and cues the background music and makes a big scene out of it and entirely destroys any hope of subtlety to the scene.

Bad characters will make the best of stories feel hollow because the audience has no way to really involve themselves vicariously. I agree with Rocklobster that I think this may be a cultural issue here. Maybe these characters are more relatable in the eastern culture but in the west, a lot of the characters do seem childish. I have no idea, though. I, personally, can't enjoy a good story with bad characters. The best it can hope for is some sort of unique charm to it like Earthbound/Mother or Chrono Trigger had. (Two of my favorites) When they try to be serious, they lose me because I don't believe them and/or can't relate to that. It's just too cheeky and reminds me of teenage "puppy love".

I have to mention Katawa Shoujo is really superb and I give it two thumbs up in its writing above any other JRPG I have played probably. I didn't even have any interest in playing the game but eventually all the buzz and the fact it was free got me to mess around with installing it and checking it out. I'll be a sonuva ***** if they didn't actually get me giving a damn about Hisao and Lilly on my playthrough and I planned on hooking up with Shizune originally. Every girl seemed interesting (except the chick with no legs, for me - I didn't ever see her much) and there were a couple of good subtle moments in there. I bring it up because even that game had some unnatural things that rip you out of the experience. The worst offender went by the name of Kenji. He was an anchor pulling down on the overall writing in the game. It is still a really well written game because it has many great characters and yet there really is no story. "Hisao goes to a new school and meets a disabled girl" sums up the plot. It varies from there but that goes to show you how important good developed characters are to writing.
That game is the best JRPG writing I have seen, hands down. Kenji, the librarian chick, and Misha really drug in the Japanese cheekiness though by the truckload. I was surprised Mutou didn't. The nurse got real close a couple of times but always pulled it back in. As well the whole game had a "tone" about it though that felt outside of believability, however, it did make the emotional scenes feel "natural".

Demon's Souls is technically a JRPG.
Yeah.
You wouldn't think so from playing it, would you?

Demon's Souls was not expected to sell well and Sony even outright said, they thought it was a shit game.

For my personal experience with Demon?s Souls, when it was close to final I spent close to two hours playing it and after two hours I was still standing at the beginning at the game. I said, ?This is crap. This is an unbelievably bad game.? So I put it aside.

http://www.psnation.org/2012/02/13/sony-we-thought-demon-souls-was-crap/
Sony would have pulled the plug on it mid-production but it happened to slipped through the cracks.

 

[Aircross]

2. They shove their thoughts and emotions down your throat. Every cutscene I have to be reminded that my protagonist is tormented/in love/etc. No emotion is ever conveyed subtly. They may make a subtle gesture towards another character like handing them a pendant but the game drag it out and cues the background music and makes a big scene out of it and entirely destroys any hope of subtlety to the scene.

One word, anvilicious. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious]

This is one of the biggest factors that has alienated me from JRPGs.

Does Terra (Tina) from FF:VI brood after every boss battle (or worse, every 15 seconds) about how unfair it is that she doesn't really belong in the world or how her was used as a weapon?

NO!

Terra bites her lip and does what's needed to be done!

After the world is destroyed, she learns the meaning of love and fighting for what she believes in, WITHOUT EVER BROODING OR WHINING ABOUT HOW SHE HAS NOTHING TO FIGHT FOR THROUGHOUT THE FIRST HALF OF THE GAME!

The bottom line:

Show, don't tell. Modern JRPG characters need to STFU (except Yuri from Tales of Vesperia, he's a bad ass).

 

[illas]

For me, I like JRPGs, but compared to games like Skyrim they pale in comparison unless you judge them as interactive movies. I think if you can play a game with one hand, you aren't engaged enough in the actual gameplay. If I could get JRPG storytelling and cinematics with WRPG gameplay, I would never see the light of day again.

Basically this: I often consider JRPGs as like low-budget, lazily-translated foreign movies.

Am I receptive of good ones? Yes, but the average JRPG holds almost no interest for me; the whole genre seems completely stale regarding both narrative and gameplay.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The last good JRPG I played was Valkyria Chronicles on the PS3.

The story was sappy and campy as fuck, but the gameplay was really engaging. If more JRPG's were like this (gameplay wise) I would think more highly of them. Unfortunatly, they're not.

 

[ToxicOranges]

I hate tunr based combat, finding it dull inside of the game.
My character is set up as (generally)an unstoppable badass with tonnes of weapons and abilities... and I have to wait my turn? What?!
Just let me bash them in the face! Please!

 

[El Dwarfio]

People who vocally dislike the entire JRPG genre have generally not played any JRPGs.

I have I just don't like them. Its fine if you do but I don't. I hate the way they tell a story, I don't like the art style and I find all the characters in them unlikable. If you like them then great but don't say my entire opinion on the thing is based on Ignorance.

Same here - and I completely agree, the characters in 99% of them are simply retarded, the story lines, while they may often be dramatic, are hardly believable, I can't stand turn based combat, I find it hard to identify with androgynous characters etc etc.

What I can't understand is why some people can't accept that other's are allowed their own opinions.

EDIT: I did love the original Pokemons games though - although their level of quality was hardly representative of the JRPG market as a whole.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

For me, I like JRPGs, but compared to games like Skyrim they pale in comparison unless you judge them as interactive movies. I think if you can play a game with one hand, you aren't engaged enough in the actual gameplay. If I could get JRPG storytelling and cinematics with WRPG gameplay, I would never see the light of day again.

But I can play Skyrim in one hand if I connect my controller.....

OT: Reasons for people disliking them have already been stated good and bad. What I do find is funny is that both genres are full of clichés(Bioware overall and Bethesda for setting), bad voice acting(Bethesda), turn based combat(Bioware), main character without any redeeming qualities(Bioware & Bethesda), generic art style(Bethesda).

I only bothered to mention those two companies as they seem to be what people consider the "Gods" of WRPGs.

Although what characters are likeable seems to be quite subjective.