I have a moral dilemma.

[SillyBear]

All names used in this are fake. The set up to this problem is kind of important so please read:

I go to university. I have an acquaintance (wouldn't quite call him a friend. We get along, but only really had 1 class together)called James. James woke up to find his car (which was parked on the Uni grounds) was severely scratched by a key on numerous parts of the car. His windscreen was smashed by a beer bottle and there was piss all over his car. The damage is several thousand dollars. This vandalism occurred at about 12AM after the university bar closed.

I have a very good friend called Ben. Ben got interviewed by the University administration (and police) about this because he was one of the last people to leave the bar and he walked directly past James' car. Ben told the police/University people he had no idea who did it.

I was talking to Ben today - and Ben revealed he actually does know who did it. Frank did it. Frank and Ben are very good friends, so Ben pretended he didn't know who did it. I don't know Frank well at all, I've never even spoken to him. It turns out Frank and James hate each other - and that is why Frank vandalised James' car. Frank has been bullying James and James has been reacting very, very angrily towards him.

My question is: Should I come forward with this information to the University staff and police?

If I do, Frank would be made to pay the damages to James' car and he would almost certainly be kicked out of the university. My very good friend Ben would probably be punished as well - because the police would ask how did I find out Frank did it and I would have to tell them Ben told me.

If I don't come forward - James has to pay thousands of dollars to fix his own car that some bastard ruined.

It's a bit of a dilemma, I'm interested to hear other's thoughts.

 

[Caiphus]

Hmmm, I've never actually had to report anything to the police. Is it possible for you to leave an anonymous tip? Because that would seem to solve most/all of your problems. I don't know if Crimestoppers gets involved in this kind of stuff.

In terms of morals: It probably would be the right thing to come forward. I totally wouldn't blame you for not doing it though. I don't know how I would react in the same situation.

 

[EeveeElectro]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
He smashed that car up, I understand being pissed off over getting bullied, but did he even try get some help with it? Why are university students bullying each other anyway?
Ben could easily go back to the police and say he wasn't in the right frame of mind when they asked him and since he's had time to go away and recollect, he's remembered more stuff.

Frank should have done something earlier about his arguments with James instead of snapping and smashing up a car.
I don't know much about uni, I don't know if he could pay a fine and carry on with his course or of its a straight exclusion.
Your actions have consequences, both in the case of James and Frank.

See if Ben can talk Frank into handing himself in? It's not fair on Ben he has to deal with this.

Edit: yes an anonymous tip might be an idea. There's a phoneline you can ring to anonymously report something, No one but Frank needs to be mentioned.

Second edit: Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought James had been bullying Frank which is what cause Frank to snap. Didn't realise it was the other way around.
I stand by what I said, Frank needs to be punished. Being a bully at university age is a pathetic thing in itself, committing crimes shows he needs to be punished.

 

[OneCatch]

My question is: Should I come forward with this information to the University staff and police?

Tell the authorities.

Frank sounds like a piece of shit, and it's completely unfair that James would have to pay for repairs. From the way you tell it, it sounds like Frank has been the instigator in all of this - he's been the one who's been actively picking on James and escalated things. If anyone's going to get burned by this it should be Frank.

Also, bullying is something that people are supposed to grow out of by about age 16 - if Frank hasn't by now then it's about time he fucking did, and the only way that might just happen is if he's made to face responsibility.

As for avoiding collateral damage;

-You could always give an anonymous tip at the very least (not ideal because chances are nothing will be done).
-Alternatively, you could tell the university staff personally, but say that you overheard it, or that it was a rumour.
This probably keeps Ben in the clear with Frank, though there's a slight possibility that Ben could find out you were the one who told.
-Or, you can stress to Ben that he's already nearly got in the shit covering for Frank, that Frank has been selfish in involving him (and now you've been put in a predicament as well), that it's beyond a joke, and that you're telling the university. Ben didn't know that Frank had done it when he was questioned before, so he's basically blameless, right? You've got every justification because you're looking out for Ben as well as yourself.

Though to be completely honest, Ben doesn't sound like that great a person if he's covering for Frank under these circumstances.


edit typo

Edit 2: or you could tell James that you heard on the grapevine that it was Frank without specifying further, and say that you really don't want to get involved further.

 

[Azurand]

I would agree with what the others are saying here.

James shouldn't have to pay for that kind of damage to his car. Uni students usually don't have a few thousand dollars to spare so him having to pay would put a huge hole in his wallet. If he had insurance he could file a claim perhaps but his premium would probably become more expensive from now on. If Frank gets away scot free then It's like James is the one who is being punished for Frank's behaviour.

 

[Miyenne]

Frank did something stupid, now he'll have to suffer the consequences. Hopefully both he and James learn not to be dickwads because of this, too. They'd adults now, this shit doesn't stand.

If you don't tell the police and it comes out you knew, you can be charged as well.

You have to tell them. Now.

 

[Bellvedere]

You should definitely inform authorities. Vandalism and destruction of property is a rash and immature means of dealing with whatever issues that Frank has with James (was he drunk or just crazy?).

You don't know how many people are privy to this information that Frank committed the crime so the chances are that people will know that it was you that told police. Be prepared for that if you decide to act. If you are very good friends with Ben it is worth telling him that you do plan to tell authorities because you find in morally objectionable to protect Frank. That way Ben will have the opportunity to come clean about what he knows and avoid some of the hurt. Frank will be questioned so if it's the case the Ben knew the whole time and Frank lets that slip, telling further lies such as Ben didn't find out until recently is not going to go down well. In what manner did Ben inform you that he knew that it was Frank? Was he feeling bad for lying to authorities and screwing the James bloke? Would it be possible for Ben to convince Frank to come forward to avoid harsher consequences?

Another option is to try and negotiate between yourselves a way to pay back James without the involvement of authorities. I'm sure that Frank would much prefer not to be charged and kicked out of uni, however if he and James are on bad terms it could be impossible to convince James that it's a better idea (saying that you're giving him cash out of sympathy might just make him feel bad and want to repay you). At the very least, if James still does want to go to police, having Frank own up to the crime and give a heartfelt apology will probably mean that it turns out better for him.

 

[manic_depressive13]

It's a shitty situation but you can't really come forward without betraying your friend. You can try to convince Ben to tell the truth, but taking matters into your own hands and screwing over a friend who trusted you is a despicable thing to do.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Standing by and watching a bullied friend get screwed over by their bully (who faces no consequences) isn't exactly great behaviour.

No, but James isn't a friend, he's an acquaintance. Ultimately this is between James and Frank, both of whom the OP apparently barely knows. Sometimes it's best to keep one's nose out of other people's business.

Besides, there doesn't really seem to be any evidence. What if Frank just denies knowing anything about it like Ben did? It's possible that the OP might exacerbate the situation without James ever getting compensated, but I'll admit I don't know what the standard of evidence is for such things.

 

[JimB]

Should I come forward with this information to the University staff and police?

Yes. James does not deserve to have to pay for the damages someone else inflicted illegally upon his car, and Frank does not deserve to continue his enrollment after engaging in that sort of behavior.

My very good friend Ben would probably be punished as well, because the police would ask how did I find out Frank did it and I would have to tell them Ben told me.

If you do not want to be punished for lying to the police and/or university staff, then you ought not to lie to police and/or university staff. He made his bed, and he's the one who put you into the position of having to either be complicit in the crime he's protecting or doing the right thing.

 

[Johkmil]

Standing by and watching a bullied friend get screwed over by their bully (who faces no consequences) isn't exactly great behaviour.

No, but James isn't a friend, he's an acquaintance. Ultimately this is between James and Frank, both of whom the OP apparently barely knows. Sometimes it's best to keep one's nose out of other people's business.

Besides, there doesn't really seem to be any evidence. What if Frank just denies knowing anything about it like Ben did? It's possible that the OP might exacerbate the situation without James ever getting compensated, but I'll admit I don't know what the standard of evidence is for such things.

This is not about who knows whom how well, but about actions, consequences and doing the right thing. Being made responsible for one's own actions is never unfair.

If you're in doubt, there is no doubt. There is only one right decision. The question is whether to inform James or the authorities.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

The 'right' thing to do is to coerce Ben into informing the authorities or to do so yourself. However... I wouldn't tell them yourself unless you can do so anonymously, without screwing over Ben. Yes, the perpetrator should face punishment, but you have to be able to compromise about these things and really it's just easier to keep out completely. If you can do that and live with yourself (for the record, I would steer well clear and I suspect most people who aren't insufferably righteous would do the same) then that's ok.

 

[SillyBear]

Hi everyone, thanks for the great responses.

Frank has been interviewed by the police and has ultimately gotten away with it because there is no proof. As long as he keeps denying involvement, there is no way to ping the blame on him. I didn't have to go to the police to tell them - it turns out they've had several reports all saying it was Frank. Frank is still claiming it wasn't him and there is no way of proving it was him.

So, yeah. That's the situation. Kind of a let down I guess - but really they need proof to act and there is none. Hearsay means little.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Your morality is always more important in my opinion than any social negatives that you suffer.