I Have Obtained ME 3 Ending Enlightenment, A MUST-READ FOR ANYONE QUESTIONING THE ME 3 ENDINGS!

[RJ 17]

First an foremost: This topic contains ending spoilers, I'll go ahead and put everything in a Spoiler box since I didn't specificaly mention it in the topic's title (I figured it was long enough as it is )

Secondly: To all the TLDR people out there: if you don't like to read, get off the internet. This site has plenty of 2,3, even 4 page articles and I don't see you TL/DR'ing those.

And Finally: Yes, I do believe that after having pieced together a defense of the endings by putting forth my explinations for various questions that people have, I think I've managed to coprehensively cover all the complaints that I've seen thus far about the endings. As such, if you're willing to at least try and look at a new perspective - one that might change your entire outlook on the ending - then please click the spoiler. Warning: Prepare To Be Crushed Beneath A Wall Of Text...but at least I think it is definitely worth it if you're looking for some answers to the ME 3 endings.

Yes, yes, we're all getting sick of these threads, but this is the first and only ending thread that I'll be making. This one though isn't me just throwing in my two cents on the situation (which I've done plenty of times in other topics) but rather a culmination of all the defenses/explinations I've put forth thus far. Seriously everyone, this is worth the read as I think I might have stumbled upon a set of answers that truly fit!

I came upon these conclusions simply by going around to all the "This Ending Sucks!" topics and putting up a logical defense for the endings based purely on what we see in each of the endings...and in answering the questions "Why does Little Space Timmy say "We're using synthetics to save you from synthetics"? Why does he continue the cycle?" I believe I've finally covered all the bases.

As for why he uses synthetics to destroy the galaxy and thus save it FROM synthetics, it's really quite simple:

Actually it's not hypocritical or nonsensical at all. All you have to do is put a little bit of thought into it.

If synthetic life kills all organic life and takes over the galaxy in a cycle...then there's no more organic life. Ever. It's gone. If the Reapers maintain the cycle, synthetic life never takes over, thus organic life is able to continue on. That said, it's quite obvious that the only way to maintain the cycle is with immortal synthetics, but they don't come to occupy planets and murder every sentient organic they encounter (as the evil Geth would, for instance), they come to harvest advanced organics while leaving the rest to grow for the next cycle. It's total destruction of all organics by the synthetics which leads to the end of sentient organic life vs destruction of advanced organics while sparing the primitive to grow into the next cycle. The difference: in one the future is ruled by synthetics, in the other the future is still ruled by organics, if on borrowed time.

To this, I received the following response

His logic is still pure circular bullshit. And the game proves this.

The Geth, a synthetic race, rose up in self-defense when the Quarians, their organic creators tried to genocide them. In spite of this, the vast majority of the Geth collective still wishes to live in peace with the Quarians, and the hostile Geth you meet are ironically inspired to do so by the Reapers who just wants to protect organic life. And you can actually create peace between the two races, thereby proving that synthetics and organic can co-exist peacefully without the former driving the latter to extinction.

Too bad you can't bring that fact up to that little mass-murdering abomination at the end, because that would just point out how stupid and forced that whole sequence was.

And then this final piece fell into place to answer that very question, it came to me as I was typing this response:

You are 100% correct, the Geth break the pattern as far as what is expected of synthetic life. But there's a couple things to consider:

1) Little Space Timmy Doesn't Give A Damn: just because the synthetics in this cycle have agreed to live peacefully with organics doesn't change Timmy from being what he is: the collective consciousness of the Reapers...whos sole mission is to kill all organics so that future generations of organics can grow.

2) Little Timmy DOES Give A Damn (and the more likely of the two): He specifically tells you something along the lines of "With the Crucible here, there are now other....options." It's quite possible that when the Crucible arrived, little Timmy learned about the history of this cycle, perhaps learned that the Geth can live peacefully with organics. And that's why he gives you any options in the first place. He already KNOWS that the Cycle is no longer needed since its been proven that synthetics and organics can live in harmony...that's why he brings Shepard up to the final room and makes sure that he/she wakes up to make the decision on how the Cycle should end.

Think about it, one of the last things you do in the game is unite the Geth and the Quarians, as such this would be brand-frickin'-new information to the Catalyst. As I extrapolate in the above quote: it is very possible that it is the fact that the Catalyst now knows that synthetics can live peacefully with organics that he decides to end the cycle. "So why the hell doesn't he just end it? Why does he need Shepard?" Because Shepard was THE central figure at the most crucial time in this cycle. It was Shepard that delayed the initial Reaper invasion. It was Shepard that destroyed the Collectors. It was Shepard that single-handedly united an entire frickin' galaxy not just under a common threat of the Reapers, but with genuine, true, and lasting peace between feuding species (at least in the Paragon playthrough, I admit I haven't played through as a full Renegade yet. ). Given the ultimate outcome of whichever ending you pick, who better to make such a galaxy-changing decision than Shepard? As for all the gaps left after the endings play out, please enjoy this wall-o-text, pulled from yet another one of my various defenses of the endings (though I can only imagine a lot of you have already read this at least once ):

Now, in regards to what I've noticed is the biggest and most common complaint about the endings: all the choices you made in the previous 3 games have no effect or purpose, the endings completely negate them. This simply is not true. Stop and think about what the ultimate goal behind all your choices was. What destination were your choices driving you towards. ME 3 shows us that the purpose behind every decision you made is to build the united galactic fleet. This fleet serves absolutely one purpose, and it is not utter destruction of the Reapers (which I imagine most people thought it would be). The sole purpose of the united galactic fleet was to build, guard, and ultimately deliver the Crucible to the Catalyst...in that sole mission, the fleet succeeded. With the fleet's success comes the justification for all the choices you made so far. Kill or save the Rachni, kill or unite the Geth, etc. All your decisions either strength or weaken your fleet, they're not meant to be the ultimate deciding factor of how the story all ends. Was this a good choice by the writers? Not necessarily, since as I said I think most people were wanting their choices to effect the ending rather than open the path for the ending. But as you mentioned: Bioware has built a business on experimenting with storytelling, I just think that like with Dragon Age 2: many people missed what they were doing with the story here.

Now, in regards to the complaint of "Oh my god these endings are all so depressing! No matter what Shepard essentially dooms civilization by destroying the relays!" Well let's just stop and think about each ending, shall we?

Paragon Ending: Enslave the Reapers. Many people think this is the Renegade ending because it was the Illusive Man's plan, but in truth it is the Paragon ending. For starters, like with everything in the ME universe, it's color-coordinated: Blue light on the ramp and a blue beam/shockwave released by the Citadel, and as we all know: blue = Paragon. But furthermore, think about what the outcome would be. Yes, the relays are destroyed, but the Reapers still exist. Now, though, they are controlled by Paragon Shepard's benevolent will. As such, it really isn't that far of a stretch to believe that Shepard will turn the Reapers from being the terrifying destroyers of the galaxy to being instrumental in its construction. Given that the Reapers were the ones that built the relays in the first place, they could just as easily do so again.

Renegade Ending: Destorying All Synthetics. Again, contrary to popular belief, this is the Renegade ending (red light, red beam/shockwave, etc). This offers the bleakest outlook for the future as Shepard wipes out an entire race (the Geth) and a close, personal friend (EDI) in order to assure the absolute destruction of the Reapers. With the Reapers destroyed, the secrets to building the relays will be lost. However, the Protheans managed to build the conduit, so it is possible that society could still rebuild the relays, it'll just take a much longer time.

They Lived Happily Ever After Ending: Synthesis. I'd imagine this is the "and the galaxy became a utopian ideal "world" filled with peace from then on out" ending. All life - synthetic and organic - now share the same DNA. I can only imagine that this would lead to advances in technology and the possibility to rebuild society, coexisting with the now pacified Reapers.

All wars require a period of reconstruction and rebuilding once they're over, Shepard grants the galaxy the hope for the future, the purpose to rebuild, and the comfort of peace.

And there you have it, my fellow Escapists. A complete, comprehensive break-down of the ending to ME 3 formulated by logical conclusions that can be drawn from what is actually seen and experienced during the ending to ME 3. Now I'll say here what I try to emphasize in all my postings on this subject: this is obviously all 100% speculation on my part, however to me the above answers just fit perfectly into any and all holes left by Bioware's writing which I fully agree wasn't fantastic due to leaving so very much open to interpritation.

Questions? Comments?

 

[boag]

The Game is full of awesome little tidbits, Every conversation with the Main cast is awesome, even better is when they start moving around the ship interacting with each other. When I walked into Joker and Garrus telling Racist jokes to each other I almost laughed a lung out.

The entirety of the game is payoff to everything you did in ME1 and ME2, and up until the very end when Shep confronts the AI it was Great, those moments with Anderson were fuckign Heartwrenching...... but then the Deus EX HR ending gets in the way.

Instead of Confronting Harbinger, you get this shitty kid AI, and all it does is shoe horn you into a decision that kills off any choices you made and leaves you with a myriad of questions, the next 15 minutes of the game from this point, no matter what choice you make completely alter the Galaxy and you are not shown any of it.

In the end my disappointment with the game stems in 3 major areas.

Thematically, it clashes with the overall aspect of the Game, instead of it being a struggle for survival it turns into a philosophical play.

Interactively, your choices are all the same, Reapers are no longer a threat and Galactic Civilization gets boned, no matter what you choose.

From a story telling perspective the ending lacks an Epilogue that explains what happens after the final decision you make completely fucks up the entirety of the Galaxy.

This final decision makes everything you have done completely moot, since it doesnt give you a payoff, and possibly invalidates anything you might have done.

Krogan genophage? Yeah good luck sustaining those fuckers if you cant find suitable worlds for them to colonize.

Quarians and Geth? Well I hope you guys didnt fuck up all those Live Ships cause its going to take a fuckton of time to get back to Ranoch.

Rachni Alive or Dead? Space Spiders dont give a shit either way, they can settle in Venus since they thrive in toxic enviroments.

Asari? these bitches are now the de facto salve whores of the Galaxy because not only did they keep their Protean info a secret and used it to lord it over the rest of the species, but they also FAILED to do anything good with it for more than 1k Years, while their little sluts went off to whore themselves around the Galaxy, so if they like being little whores, then they will have no problem being the fuck toys of every other species.

The Salarians would surprisingly come out of this shit pretty ok, since they only sent their fleet to fight, and Surkesh didnt get fucked over by reapers.

But anything I say now is just wild speculation because we have no Epilogue to tell us what the fuck happens after I make Sheppard use the Mcguffin.

That is why I dislike the ending so much.

 

[Kingme18]

The Game is full of awesome little tidbits, Every conversation with the Main cast is awesome, even better is when they start moving around the ship interacting with each other. When I walked into Joker and Garrus telling Racist jokes to each other I almost laughed a lung out.

The entirety of the game is payoff to everything you did in ME1 and ME2, and up until the very end when Shep confronts the AI it was Great, those moments with Anderson were fuckign Heartwrenching...... but then the Deus EX HR ending gets in the way.

Instead of Confronting Harbinger, you get this shitty kid AI, and all it does is shoe horn you into a decision that kills off any choices you made and leaves you with a myriad of questions, the next 15 minutes of the game from this point, no matter what choice you make completely alter the Galaxy and you are not shown any of it.

In the end my disappointment with the game stems in 3 major areas.

Thematically, it clashes with the overall aspect of the Game, instead of it being a struggle for survival it turns into a philosophical play.

Interactively, your choices are all the same, Reapers are no longer a threat and Galactic Civilization gets boned, no matter what you choose.

From a story telling perspective the ending lacks an Epilogue that explains what happens after the final decision you make completely fucks up the entirety of the Galaxy.

This final decision makes everything you have done completely moot, since it doesnt give you a payoff, and possibly invalidates anything you might have done.

Krogan genophage? Yeah good luck sustaining those fuckers if you cant find suitable worlds for them to colonize.

Quarians and Geth? Well I hope you guys didnt fuck up all those Live Ships cause its going to take a fuckton of time to get back to Ranoch.

Rachni Alive or Dead? Space Spiders dont give a shit either way, they can settle in Venus since they thrive in toxic enviroments.

Asari? these bitches are now the de facto salve whores of the Galaxy because not only did they keep their Protean info a secret and used it to lord it over the rest of the species, but they also FAILED to do anything good with it for more than 1k Years, while their little sluts went off to whore themselves around the Galaxy, so if they like being little whores, then they will have no problem being the fuck toys of every other species.

The Salarians would surprisingly come out of this shit pretty ok, since they only sent their fleet to fight, and Surkesh didnt get fucked over by reapers.

But anything I say now is just wild speculation because we have no Epilogue to tell us what the fuck happens after I make Sheppard use the Mcguffin.

That is why I dislike the ending so much.

This a thousand times, which is why the only thing I want them to do is make an epilogue, even just a wall of text telling me how my decisions affected society after the game would satisfy me.

 

[Nimcha]

Uhm, I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

I will raise one point however, and that is that you didn't touch upon one problem people have with the Reapers' motivation.

People sometimes complain that the motivation for the Reapers to destroy every spacefaring civilization doesn't make sense because at this moment in the cycle synthetic life has either been mostly destroyed or has made peace with their creators. While that is indeed true, it doesn't really matter to the Reapers. It would be weird for the synthetics to rebel within a cycle, since the Reapers specifically come to prevent that. They have chosen an interval of 50,000 years. That is presumably just time enough to give civilizations time to grow and expand and enjoy the spoils of space, but not enough time for synthetics to actually start wiping the organics out.

There's another thought though, and it touches on why Shepard is the one to make the final decision. The Catalyst tells you that by Shepard being there, she/he invalidates the Reapers' existence. This makes sense because the Reapers are the ultimate synthetics. And Shepard, by being able to unite the galaxy and defy all odds (and with a little help from the previous cycles), has shown they can eventually be beaten. Which means the Reapers are eventually proven wrong.

The Catalyst tells you this pretty literally, and this is also why Shepard is the one making the final choice of how to free the galaxy from the Reapers. As the Catalyst explains, Shepard has proved the Reapers wrong and made them obsolete. Now the galaxy can choose it's own path to move on. And to do that, the Mass Relays need to be destroyed. Yes, this means sacrificing a lot, but it ultimately gives the galaxy a fresh start.

In short, the Reapers being wrong about everything is not a plothole or bad writing. In fact, I find it rather beautiful.

 

[KingofMadCows]

I don't see how the synthesis ending would result in peace. For one, it doesn't turn synthetics into hybrids. It wouldn't even make sense anyway, how would you magically alter a computer to suddenly be half organic? That means the division simply shifts from organics vs. synthetics to cyborgs vs. pure synthetics. Synthetics are still superior since cyborgs have the limitations of their organic components.

Even if the synthesis gave synthetics organic components, that wouldn't stop people from making pure synthetics in the future. So again, we're back to cyborgs vs. pure synthetics.

Maybe cyborgs will have a better chance against synthetics than pure organics but the best you can hopeful is going to be this:

 

[Terminate421]

The wave saying it destroyed all Synthetics doesn't do what it says.

It only destroyed the Reapers:
A. Tali and Garrus's equipment still work, so it doesn't fry electronics
B. EDI is seen coming out of the ship after the crash
C. This means the geth are still alive so the Catalyst was trying to fuck with your mind
D. At the end, Shepard wakes up from what looks to be rubble on earth so the "end" was all a hallucination.

Synthesis is bullshit because it doesn't exactly sound like it'd work

Controlling the reapers would make my (Mostly) Paragon guy a complete Hypocrite.

I just feel that they could have added ALOT more to that ending. If there is a DLC that "fixes" it, Ill get it. But if not, I imagine the ending that I wanted, a Mass Effect 2 style ending where we save the galaxy and then I retire with Miranda to set up a bar. I employ Garrus and Tali because clearly they are getting into...intimate relations. And I invite any and all races.

My ability to unite all the races results in a big boom of economy and art and good things.

THE END.

 

[Nimcha]

The wave saying it destroyed all Synthetics doesn't do what it says.

It only destroyed the Reapers:
A. Tali and Garrus's equipment still work, so it doesn't fry electronics
B. EDI is seen coming out of the ship after the crash
C. This means the geth are still alive so the Catalyst was trying to fuck with your mind
D. At the end, Shepard wakes up from what looks to be rubble on earth so the "end" was all a hallucination.

I don't think your post can be taken seriously, but if it is meant that way:

I had the destroy ending too and only Liara, Joker and Ashley came out of the ship. My Shepard died and does not wake up in the rubble.

 

[Terminate421]

The wave saying it destroyed all Synthetics doesn't do what it says.

It only destroyed the Reapers:
A. Tali and Garrus's equipment still work, so it doesn't fry electronics
B. EDI is seen coming out of the ship after the crash
C. This means the geth are still alive so the Catalyst was trying to fuck with your mind
D. At the end, Shepard wakes up from what looks to be rubble on earth so the "end" was all a hallucination.

I don't think your post can be taken seriously, but if it is meant that way:

I had the destroy ending too and only Liara, Joker and Ashley came out of the ship. My Shepard died and does not wake up in the rubble.

What was your Galactic resources and prepardness at? Because I had the ending with my Shepard waking up from some rubble and even then people will talk about it that it happened.

The whole "EDI" thing came from a friend's game, I used Tali and Garrus.

 

[TaL0s]

The problem most people are having with the endings is not the fact that they simply don't understand the motivations behind the actions of the reapers dictated by the Child-AI. The problem lies in the fact that this is proposed in the first place. That this was the path they wished to take the series.

First the Child-AI admits to being the controller of the reapers.

He then states that organic and synthetic life cannot coexist(says the reaper king).
This is a position that is introduced in the last 10 min of 3 game series. And the only example that supports this theory throughout the series is the Reapers.

Also no matter what you choose it does not feel like a victory because the fact that the
Child-AI is there and in control removes any power from Shepherd. The Reapers lose, but they lose on their own terms. Its a concession at best. This left many feeling underwhelmed and unempowered.

To argue or try to explain the motives/ramifications/necessity of the Reapers existence is to accept the posits of the AI as truth and not a ploy of the reapers or possible indoctrination. Which we are never given a reason to believe, no proof, and we are supposed to make a galaxy changing decision based on that. That is, of course, before you realize the only difference is the color of the beam.

And the final sequence with the Normandy outrunning the blast if filled with many inconsistencies and problems.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And Finally: Yes, I do believe that after having pieced together a defense of the endings by putting forth my explinations for various questions that people have, I think I've managed to coprehensively cover all the complaints that I've seen thus far about the endings.

Questions? Comments?

Uh...you're missing a few.

1. Shepard, after being "hit" by Harbinger's laser, awakens. She's carrying an unfamiliar pistol, and wearing unfamiliar armor. Someone suggested her armor was "melted off", but anything hot enough to melt off her body armor would most certainly have killed her, or at least severely burned her. Why the change of clothes/weapons on Shepard?

2. Garrus was last with me storming down towards the portal to the Citadel. During the ending cut scene, Garrus gets off the crashed Normandy. How?

3. When you activate the Crucible and it sends out its relay destroying pulse, Joker is...where? Flying the ship away, really fast? Riding the blast wave? Riding the Mass Relay? Why isn't he involved in the fight? It's completely unclear why Joker is flying away extremely fast at this juncture in time, as he has absolutely no warning whatsoever of what is about to occur.

4. In the "good" ending where Shepard lives, you're given an image of a battered/bloody Shepard lying in some rubble, taking a breath. Shepard was just on board an exploding citadel. "Lying in some rubble" seems an unlikely result of an exploding Citadel. Are we to believe she went through the atmosphere?

5. In the "destroy all synthetics" ending, EDI can occasionally be seen exiting the crashed Normandy with Joker. How?

6. The destruction of the Mass Relays, as per The Arrival, would've resulted in the complete devastation of their home systems. There wouldn't be much of a galaxy left after that, so all three of Shepard's choices are technically "Armageddon". They are, at best, small upgrades on the Reaper invasion you spend 98% of the series working to avert.

So, we've got two possible explanations for all this stuff.

1. Shepard was indoctrinated. At some point between the arrival of Harbinger/her talk with the Luminous Space Baby, Shepard cracked, and the Reapers finally indoctrinated her. Matrix style, she is playing out a delusion inside her head while the war continues to rage around her. Likelihood of this...very low.

2. Bioware got really fucking lazy when they put the ending together. Throwing out for a second the closure it provides/doesn't provide, it's simply festooned with bizarre inconsistencies and unexplained events. So instead of snuffling and swelling with emotion, as expected, we're left going "Huh?".

 

[wicket42]

If the Catalyst is there to sustain organic life, why use the reapers to harvest advanced civilsations, instead of destroying the rebelling synthetics?

If my child goes crazy and tries to kill me with a pair of scissors, are you going to kill me and my kid or are you going to take the scissors away?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

If my child goes crazy and tries to kill me with a pair of scissors, are you going to kill me and my kid or are you going to take the scissors away?

Not kill. Harvest. We're going to HARVEST you and your kid.

It's okay. A primitive civilization will take your place. One that hasn't developed scissors yet.

 

[TaL0s]

Nothing the Catalyst says explains how they can indoctrinate and create mutant/zombies and still claim benevolence. Because nothing about a husk is preserving humanity.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Why would Shepard just go along with the Star Child thing? He/she spent the entire trilogy spitting in the face of god-like entities that said that what he/she was doing was useless and that he/she had no chance.

 

[Cranky]

They also did not explain the Keepers' presence, nor where the Catalyst came from and its true motives behind protecting organic life since it looks synthetic. And the endings which were disappointingly similar to DX:HR. Except HR at least provided some measure of closure for the world it involved.

 

[TaL0s]

No matter what you choose it feels like your giving in.

 

[wicket42]

If my child goes crazy and tries to kill me with a pair of scissors, are you going to kill me and my kid or are you going to take the scissors away?

Not kill. Harvest. We're going to HARVEST you and your kid.

It's okay. A primitive civilization will take your place. One that hasn't developed scissors yet.

Bahaha, awesome, that makes sense now

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That ending could blow it out my ass. I've seen some bad endings in my day. Some really bad ones. Mass Effect 3 will forever take the cake.

ME3 had a bad ending, but it's not close to being the worst.

Fallout 3 leaps immediately to mind, and that's staying inside the last few years.