What was the original ending? Or do we know? I've been curious about it since I beat the game and haven't been able to find it anywhere.ravenshrike said:
I Have Obtained ME 3 Ending Enlightenment, A MUST-READ FOR ANYONE QUESTIONING THE ME 3 ENDINGS!
- Thread starter RJ 17
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I enjoyed reading your post, OP. It was long-winded but cleared up the very few things I couldn't quite understand. I like your idea that the God-Child admits the cycle was wrong, even if he did only directly admit his solution to the cycle was ineffective. But the end was still a sprawled mess. If they've just made it 10 minutes longer to explain the decisions properly, the god-child's methods properly and the after-effects of each decision in detail, I could've forgiven it.
The entire story was on par with the first two ME's so good job there; but that's the story except for the final 5 minutes...
*Sniff*
The ending was a kick in the balls for all my time and effort. A total killjoy. It worked well in keeping me up all night pondering what it meant, but I came to no other conclusion other than "Because shit happens and the world ain't fair".
Epic & simple endgame possibilities.
Paragon:
Reapers killed, everyone happy. Mass Relays are working / disabled, indoctrination effects & Reaper technology ceases, but technology still recoverable. Galaxy goes on as normal. If Relays disabled, conclusion shows progress of developing own Mass Relays, if not - best possible ending.
Renegade:
Reapers not stopped / Shepard indoctrinated / Reapers forced back into hibernation for another 50,000 years, everyone disgruntled / upset. Mass Relays disabled (under reaper control) / working. Everyone screwed / only mildly relieved.
Neutral:
Reapers permanently stopped, everyone happy / disgruntled. Total & permanent loss of all Reaper technology including citadel and mass relays EITHER destroyed / disabled. Current civilisations start to develop own versions / not at all.
Regardless of ending:
Shepard could die. Earth could be lost, some crew could be lost, races could be killed off; but these are results of galactic readiness and entire series decisions and relations. Conclusion shows after-effects of key decision throughout games.
Final note: These ending scenarios come after the Anderson-Shepard-Illusive Man stand off, replacing the god-child for something else.
My opinion of current end-game:
While I can come to terms with the current game ending, it leaves too many open ends and even contradicts itself. Save organics from being killed by synthetics by harvesting civilised organics before synthetics kill them off? What? Like the Geth now live side-by-side with the Quarians? Like EDI aspires to be equal to organics and come the end-game, is equal in thought process to organics? Like an entire species of synthetics worked towards individuality and an equal place in the galaxy? The ending was a flop and bloody confusing.
...and yes, I've jacked most of this entire post from another post of mine on another Mass Effect 3 thread, because I'm not typing it out again and my opinion doesn't change in 5 minutes.
The entire story was on par with the first two ME's so good job there; but that's the story except for the final 5 minutes...
*Sniff*
The ending was a kick in the balls for all my time and effort. A total killjoy. It worked well in keeping me up all night pondering what it meant, but I came to no other conclusion other than "Because shit happens and the world ain't fair".
Epic & simple endgame possibilities.
Paragon:
Reapers killed, everyone happy. Mass Relays are working / disabled, indoctrination effects & Reaper technology ceases, but technology still recoverable. Galaxy goes on as normal. If Relays disabled, conclusion shows progress of developing own Mass Relays, if not - best possible ending.
Renegade:
Reapers not stopped / Shepard indoctrinated / Reapers forced back into hibernation for another 50,000 years, everyone disgruntled / upset. Mass Relays disabled (under reaper control) / working. Everyone screwed / only mildly relieved.
Neutral:
Reapers permanently stopped, everyone happy / disgruntled. Total & permanent loss of all Reaper technology including citadel and mass relays EITHER destroyed / disabled. Current civilisations start to develop own versions / not at all.
Regardless of ending:
Shepard could die. Earth could be lost, some crew could be lost, races could be killed off; but these are results of galactic readiness and entire series decisions and relations. Conclusion shows after-effects of key decision throughout games.
Final note: These ending scenarios come after the Anderson-Shepard-Illusive Man stand off, replacing the god-child for something else.
My opinion of current end-game:
While I can come to terms with the current game ending, it leaves too many open ends and even contradicts itself. Save organics from being killed by synthetics by harvesting civilised organics before synthetics kill them off? What? Like the Geth now live side-by-side with the Quarians? Like EDI aspires to be equal to organics and come the end-game, is equal in thought process to organics? Like an entire species of synthetics worked towards individuality and an equal place in the galaxy? The ending was a flop and bloody confusing.
...and yes, I've jacked most of this entire post from another post of mine on another Mass Effect 3 thread, because I'm not typing it out again and my opinion doesn't change in 5 minutes.
There are two big fat problems with the end.
1) It doesn't feel like the ultimate culmination of all the choices you made in the prior games, which is what it should've been.
2) If we are forced to chose between the three endings, atleast make them distinct enough. Sure, they sound very different on paper, but on screen it's either Joker being chased by a green, a blue, or a red energy wave. That's it.
You'd think that the difference between destroying the Reapers, controlling the Reapers, or merging synthetic and organic life would make for three very different endings, but apparently nothing really changes at all. This makes all the time you've spent weighing your choices totally meaningless, since all everything came down to was building the Crucible and choosing three options.
Apart from the stupid kid and the lame cyberninja, I loved Mass Effect 3, but the horrendous ending makes it nearly impossible to start a new run through all the games since all your choices regarding the Reapers account to nothing.
1) It doesn't feel like the ultimate culmination of all the choices you made in the prior games, which is what it should've been.
2) If we are forced to chose between the three endings, atleast make them distinct enough. Sure, they sound very different on paper, but on screen it's either Joker being chased by a green, a blue, or a red energy wave. That's it.
You'd think that the difference between destroying the Reapers, controlling the Reapers, or merging synthetic and organic life would make for three very different endings, but apparently nothing really changes at all. This makes all the time you've spent weighing your choices totally meaningless, since all everything came down to was building the Crucible and choosing three options.
Apart from the stupid kid and the lame cyberninja, I loved Mass Effect 3, but the horrendous ending makes it nearly impossible to start a new run through all the games since all your choices regarding the Reapers account to nothing.
Hear, fucking hear.boag said:
While I enjoyed the philosophical ending there are WAY too many unanswered questions for this to be called the end. The end of Shepard maybe, but come on Bioware. Dont be so fucking cheap.
Need to learn how to write a proper ending to a story? Check out Witcher 1 or the Legacy of Kain series. Or Final Fantasy 8. THATS a proper ending.
You know, you could have made this exact point without all the misogyny and anti-woman slurs like ***** and whore. Just saying.boag said:
THIS!RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Imagine the end game had been the three choices you were given and fourth which was the equivalent of, "We'll take our chances with wiping out the Reapers." Then, depending on your galactic preparedness level either the Reapers continue their cycle or they are defeated and destroyed forever.
It eschews the "deus ex machina" endings we were given and it keeps with the original theme of the previous 2.99 games.
That fourth choice would just be waving the white flag and giving up though - every species in the galaxy would surely be doomed since there's no way to defeat the Reapers with conventional weapons and technology.defenestrate said:
Remember that there's an awful lot more Reapers in systems outside of Sol, and just the ones that are there are doing a pretty good job of carving up the cobmined fleets of the entire galaxy.
Maybe they'll pull the old dream sequence/indoctrination ending for a DLC.
Sure, it'd be really annoying, but if it makes room for an ending that doesn't make me want to cave my skull in, I'm willing to accept it. While I'm fantasizing, let's make it a free DLC which comes witha bunch more multiplayer maps and characters, as well as adding a bunch more missions to the single player.
Sure, it'd be really annoying, but if it makes room for an ending that doesn't make me want to cave my skull in, I'm willing to accept it. While I'm fantasizing, let's make it a free DLC which comes witha bunch more multiplayer maps and characters, as well as adding a bunch more missions to the single player.
I've read your explanation, and It makes sense, however, I still say the way the endings were presented and the options available smell like corporate meddling to me.
Is there any more info on this?ravenshrike said:
I always wondered what was happening there, one of the few things from ME2 that didn't get any closure at all.
I think that, after reading a lot of people's complaints, and voicing my ideas on a couple threads, the only real things I can add here are this.
I forget who pointed it out, but no matter what ending you choose, anywhere, the earth is destroyed. Because the citadel is destroyed, in Earth's orbit (or at the very least, close enough proximity).......and not vaporized like death star vaporized, no, exploded and broken apart destroyed.....in earth orbit (or at the very least, close enough proximity). Think about the SIZE of the citadel, and then think about what just 1 arm of it, hell, even a fair sized chunk of it hitting earth would do. So yea, there's that.
There are some other points, but the discussions about the repercussions of the destruction of the relays have been done to death in almost every other thread.
I forget who pointed it out, but no matter what ending you choose, anywhere, the earth is destroyed. Because the citadel is destroyed, in Earth's orbit (or at the very least, close enough proximity).......and not vaporized like death star vaporized, no, exploded and broken apart destroyed.....in earth orbit (or at the very least, close enough proximity). Think about the SIZE of the citadel, and then think about what just 1 arm of it, hell, even a fair sized chunk of it hitting earth would do. So yea, there's that.
There are some other points, but the discussions about the repercussions of the destruction of the relays have been done to death in almost every other thread.
My problems with the Catalyst, as I posted on the BSN:
1) Who the hell is water boy? When asked he only says "I control the Reapers" that's not who you are, it's what you do, there is no foreshadowing, no explanation, no hint, that something, or someone controlos the reapers, is he a manifestation of some sort, God perhaps?
As it stands he is who he says he is, and Shepard just accepts it without any other question, he is a deus ex machina, and the worse type of one, there is nothing or anything that could justify or explain his existence, he's not even a twist plot device, who was hinted at or mentioned, he's existance starts and ends within those five minutes, and hence why he feels so out of place, and dare I say tacked on.
2) "They are My solution./Solution to what?/ Chaos." No they aren't, they are the bringers of chaos, for at least two cycles, the reapers have been what breaks order in the galaxy, they broke the Prothean empire who was based in the utmost order, and they are now breaking the galactic council in the present cycle, council that has been making efforts into creating a galactic peace, and slowly adding more species to their ranks
3) "The created will always rebel against their creators/ (...) without us to stop it synthetics will always kill the organics" This is really flawed, the only examples presented to us during the three ME3 games were 2, the first one the Geth.
Aside from acting in self-defense and NOT chasing the Quarians into outer space (something that a synthetic would do to their creator would do according to Mr. Transparent Kid) all the geth wanted was to build a giant spaceship to store all their data, a home and leave, they had no use for Rannoch, this is until ME1, when Sovereign a.k.a Reaper nº1 decided to change their fate and influence them to follow him to attack organic life, Reapers are the only reason the Geth ever left their space and became antagonists, they are also like that in ME 3 because the reapers pulled the same stunt again, the Reapers caused synthetics to fight organics.
Case nº2 The Metacon Wars, a war between a synthetic species against their creators and then the Protheans, a war that the Protheans were winning and would finally put things into order again, until.... The Reapers decided to show up and give the synthetics the leverage, Reapers brought doom and chaos that the Protheans were about to subside and avoid.
These 2 are the only times that the plot mentions a pattern like this of creation vs creators, and both times it was both the reapers who ****ed things up for the rest of us, not the goddamn Organics.
3) "We harvest full grown civilizations and leave the young to grow/ It's the solution." What a ****ty solution. You have massive warships that are larger than any race built spaceship, and the only solution you have to stop synthetics from killing organics is to wipe major organic races? Did Mr. Ghost from Cycles Past ever thought about using reapers to put an end to synthetic uprisings or if he's feeling fair, kill both creator and creation alone? You act as a God, and yet you decide to not play judge, if anything is anywhere near being a keeper of order is, it's goddamn starships that take out entire fleets, mass genocidal on a galactic level doesn't make sense, when you can just punish the guilty and then go back to wherever plot-hole dark space you came from.
And on the harvest thing, you don't harvest, you mutilate, gload to, terrorize, manipulate, destroy, infect, degenerate, and become a living nightmare, with all the technology in this universe and your hollier-than thou persona, you think dissecting and play organic lego and then throw the frankensteins at their family's face is a clean and rightful way to go about harvesting, even the Anti-Spirals in TTGL had their hands cleaner than this.
The difference between this idea that Paranormal Activity Kid is trying to transmit of "Misunderstood Keepers of Peace Squad Reapers"contradicts and breaks the flow and is completely alien and off putting from the gload, dark, manipulative arrogant, menacing, torturing and threatening attitude/action of Harbinger & co, it just doesn't fit in any way with the idea that a 5 minutes Ectoplasm is trying to make me believe
5) "This was my solution/ But it won't work anymore" Orly? So far it was working, and you Casper, the doomsday friendly ghost were the only hope to stop them.
It never stopped working, the reapers are winning and if you threw sheppard off the ship it would still work, this line of thought by Catalyst doesn't even make sense. There is no need to change the solution, since it's working pretty well, just because an organic got there doesn't mean anything, but if you are feeling threatened it's because there's something that might stop you, something not on your 6th sense plans or will, meaning you give options that you accept, but not options that shepard and by connection the player might agree, this is a plothole on so many levels.
The kid is afraid of something, but you never really get to push that thought because you just blindly agree to his options.
5) "synthetics will kill organics pt 2" Mr. Transparent says this like it's a law, a cycle that you couldn't avoid or break to which reapers are the only answer, something that will always happen, yet just two hours early you have acheived peace between the synthetics and the organics Even if in the future the situation happens again, it was proven by actions that you can reach compromise, and altough History tends to repeat itself, the same applies to good things, not only to bad, for every war between a synthetic race, there can be acheived peace.
6) "The crucible changed me" Why?It's a device, an object, what the hell are you then? A merely object shouldn't affect a superior form life, or moses the ghost, and if a machine can give you options, why can't you lord of the machines create a machine that opens up new options, this is a loop of holes that could go on and on, if God kid is a god why would an object alter his essence, if he's not, why is the player even forced to go along, if it's just the opinion of something that controls he's enemies with no direct ties to anything but the enemies?
7) "These are the only solutions" How about I, the player commander shepard of the normandy, peace maker between organics and synthetics, the saviour of the krogan, the hero of Mindoir, the guy who brought order to all the races in order to protect our existance and the galaxy cannot convince you or even tell you to retreat, you control the reapers why don't you just pick up your squidface friends and go back, we changed every reason that you had to harvest us (even if we consent his logic), and yet you will either continue pushing, or accept one of the three options you impose? You can just, stop. Have hope. The most logical answer is the only one that we don't get.
8) "From me to we?" At the begining Mr. Ethereal Shenanigans said "I" control the reapers, they are my solutions meaning he was something outside the reapers, at the end of the conversation he speaks about destroy, control or synthesis in a we form.
So either you control the reapers, or you are the reapers, in the first case, if you control them you can make them stop, you can even tell them to dance, since you have full control of them. If you are the reapers, there is no point into even believe your bull****.
I hope I didn't miss anything, if I did i apologize, either way i'm here not because i want a happy ending, but because I don't want to allow that such a clumsy, cliche'd, flawed and utterly bull**** logic to be the end and the final memory that I have from the trilogy i came to care about so much.
1) Who the hell is water boy? When asked he only says "I control the Reapers" that's not who you are, it's what you do, there is no foreshadowing, no explanation, no hint, that something, or someone controlos the reapers, is he a manifestation of some sort, God perhaps?
As it stands he is who he says he is, and Shepard just accepts it without any other question, he is a deus ex machina, and the worse type of one, there is nothing or anything that could justify or explain his existence, he's not even a twist plot device, who was hinted at or mentioned, he's existance starts and ends within those five minutes, and hence why he feels so out of place, and dare I say tacked on.
2) "They are My solution./Solution to what?/ Chaos." No they aren't, they are the bringers of chaos, for at least two cycles, the reapers have been what breaks order in the galaxy, they broke the Prothean empire who was based in the utmost order, and they are now breaking the galactic council in the present cycle, council that has been making efforts into creating a galactic peace, and slowly adding more species to their ranks
3) "The created will always rebel against their creators/ (...) without us to stop it synthetics will always kill the organics" This is really flawed, the only examples presented to us during the three ME3 games were 2, the first one the Geth.
Aside from acting in self-defense and NOT chasing the Quarians into outer space (something that a synthetic would do to their creator would do according to Mr. Transparent Kid) all the geth wanted was to build a giant spaceship to store all their data, a home and leave, they had no use for Rannoch, this is until ME1, when Sovereign a.k.a Reaper nº1 decided to change their fate and influence them to follow him to attack organic life, Reapers are the only reason the Geth ever left their space and became antagonists, they are also like that in ME 3 because the reapers pulled the same stunt again, the Reapers caused synthetics to fight organics.
Case nº2 The Metacon Wars, a war between a synthetic species against their creators and then the Protheans, a war that the Protheans were winning and would finally put things into order again, until.... The Reapers decided to show up and give the synthetics the leverage, Reapers brought doom and chaos that the Protheans were about to subside and avoid.
These 2 are the only times that the plot mentions a pattern like this of creation vs creators, and both times it was both the reapers who ****ed things up for the rest of us, not the goddamn Organics.
3) "We harvest full grown civilizations and leave the young to grow/ It's the solution." What a ****ty solution. You have massive warships that are larger than any race built spaceship, and the only solution you have to stop synthetics from killing organics is to wipe major organic races? Did Mr. Ghost from Cycles Past ever thought about using reapers to put an end to synthetic uprisings or if he's feeling fair, kill both creator and creation alone? You act as a God, and yet you decide to not play judge, if anything is anywhere near being a keeper of order is, it's goddamn starships that take out entire fleets, mass genocidal on a galactic level doesn't make sense, when you can just punish the guilty and then go back to wherever plot-hole dark space you came from.
And on the harvest thing, you don't harvest, you mutilate, gload to, terrorize, manipulate, destroy, infect, degenerate, and become a living nightmare, with all the technology in this universe and your hollier-than thou persona, you think dissecting and play organic lego and then throw the frankensteins at their family's face is a clean and rightful way to go about harvesting, even the Anti-Spirals in TTGL had their hands cleaner than this.
The difference between this idea that Paranormal Activity Kid is trying to transmit of "Misunderstood Keepers of Peace Squad Reapers"contradicts and breaks the flow and is completely alien and off putting from the gload, dark, manipulative arrogant, menacing, torturing and threatening attitude/action of Harbinger & co, it just doesn't fit in any way with the idea that a 5 minutes Ectoplasm is trying to make me believe
5) "This was my solution/ But it won't work anymore" Orly? So far it was working, and you Casper, the doomsday friendly ghost were the only hope to stop them.
It never stopped working, the reapers are winning and if you threw sheppard off the ship it would still work, this line of thought by Catalyst doesn't even make sense. There is no need to change the solution, since it's working pretty well, just because an organic got there doesn't mean anything, but if you are feeling threatened it's because there's something that might stop you, something not on your 6th sense plans or will, meaning you give options that you accept, but not options that shepard and by connection the player might agree, this is a plothole on so many levels.
The kid is afraid of something, but you never really get to push that thought because you just blindly agree to his options.
5) "synthetics will kill organics pt 2" Mr. Transparent says this like it's a law, a cycle that you couldn't avoid or break to which reapers are the only answer, something that will always happen, yet just two hours early you have acheived peace between the synthetics and the organics Even if in the future the situation happens again, it was proven by actions that you can reach compromise, and altough History tends to repeat itself, the same applies to good things, not only to bad, for every war between a synthetic race, there can be acheived peace.
6) "The crucible changed me" Why?It's a device, an object, what the hell are you then? A merely object shouldn't affect a superior form life, or moses the ghost, and if a machine can give you options, why can't you lord of the machines create a machine that opens up new options, this is a loop of holes that could go on and on, if God kid is a god why would an object alter his essence, if he's not, why is the player even forced to go along, if it's just the opinion of something that controls he's enemies with no direct ties to anything but the enemies?
7) "These are the only solutions" How about I, the player commander shepard of the normandy, peace maker between organics and synthetics, the saviour of the krogan, the hero of Mindoir, the guy who brought order to all the races in order to protect our existance and the galaxy cannot convince you or even tell you to retreat, you control the reapers why don't you just pick up your squidface friends and go back, we changed every reason that you had to harvest us (even if we consent his logic), and yet you will either continue pushing, or accept one of the three options you impose? You can just, stop. Have hope. The most logical answer is the only one that we don't get.
8) "From me to we?" At the begining Mr. Ethereal Shenanigans said "I" control the reapers, they are my solutions meaning he was something outside the reapers, at the end of the conversation he speaks about destroy, control or synthesis in a we form.
So either you control the reapers, or you are the reapers, in the first case, if you control them you can make them stop, you can even tell them to dance, since you have full control of them. If you are the reapers, there is no point into even believe your bull****.
I hope I didn't miss anything, if I did i apologize, either way i'm here not because i want a happy ending, but because I don't want to allow that such a clumsy, cliche'd, flawed and utterly bull**** logic to be the end and the final memory that I have from the trilogy i came to care about so much.
I said it before and I'll say it again: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and ACCEPTANCE. Don't fall for it folks. You have every god damn right to be pissed off by the ending. Why the hell did Sovereign need Saren to open the portal for other Reapers to arrive if the fuckin' Catalyst was controlling them and the Citadel all along. The ending didn't make any sense, no matter how hard you're trying to find a reason to like it.
So to the OP: you did not obtain enlightenment. You're in a final stage of grief. You've been indoctrinated.
So to the OP: you did not obtain enlightenment. You're in a final stage of grief. You've been indoctrinated.
Ending is crap and definitely half assed. Not even the originally planned ending, from what I understand (something about the Reapers ultimately being good and trying to save their people or something by preventing sentient beings from abusing dark energy and potentially destroying the universe)
BUT Bioware has said ME3 won't be the last Mass Effect game, just the last one with Commander Shepherd.
They probably left loose ends on purpose (or they had better plan to tie them up)
BUT Bioware has said ME3 won't be the last Mass Effect game, just the last one with Commander Shepherd.
They probably left loose ends on purpose (or they had better plan to tie them up)
I really, really wish they had gone with the original planned ending involving dark energy. Even if the actual reasoning ended up being worse, at least that was built up to by the second game. This one just came out of nowhere.