I just uninstalled Skyrim

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T8B95

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Crono1973 said:
Bomberman4000 said:
I don't get why people who don't like Skyrim go out of their way to try to convert people who do. What it sounds like to me is that people who don't like Skyrim can't accept that they're in the minority so they ***** and complain about it to try and get more people on their side, OR they ***** and moan because they feel it's cooler to be on the outside of the majority on an issue.

It's been said before that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but just because you're the most stubborn about arguing about it doesn't make you right. "Good" is a relative term. "Perfect" is a relative term. "Quality" is a relative term. Reviews and everything that goes in them are all subjective. It's fine to disagree, but with what I've been reading so far it just sounds like a lot of complaining because something is popular that you don't think should be.
It's more the opposite. It sounds to me like the people who like Skyrim are shouting down those who don't. Don't let me shatter your illusions though.
All of the reviewers, critics, journalists, and gamers who have posted something to the effect of "This is the best game of the year" would like to have a word with you.

OT: If someone doesn't like this game, I can respect that. HOWEVER, there is a difference between "I don't like this game," and "This is a bad game."

Skyrim is not a bad game. At worst it is above average. It has a massive game world, literally thousands of NPC's, and dozens if not hundreds of quests. Its mechanics and execution work well enough. It has a large backstory filled with lore.

All of this is not even counting the largest draw (to me at least): it makes you feel like a part of the world. If you steal from someone, they will send thugs after you to get revenge. Thieves occasionally run up to you and hand you a stolen item, followed by the guy he stole it from, whereupon you can either hand it back to him or lie aabout it. These are just random actions that have no bearing on the story, but draw you into the world.

People need to understand that their opinion is not synonymous with absolute truth. I find it odd that some people will readily admit to liking bad games/movies/books, but no one will admit that the game/movie/book that they hate is good.
 

jboking

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Duffeknol said:
And I feel nothing.

This game literally has been one of the most miserable gaming experiences of my life. I was 'lucky' enough to be able to play it a few days before it came out (the PS3 version was already being sold here, and my friend had bought it). I saw the preposterously bad NPC-character animations, the same weightless ragdoll physics, the same pointless and consequence-free gameplay and the same amount of bugs as Oblivion's. I went on this forum to downplay people's INSANE expectations, and got 10+ pages of people calling me a troll and flaming me to death.
It seems all of the problems you feel skyrim has relates to the problems you feel oblivion had. So you had problems with oblivion that were game-destroying, so you bought the sequel to it?

Why? That makes no damn sense, my friend.
 

Epona

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Crono1973 said:
So was the Wii.
Indeed. People raved about it, too.

Dexter111 said:
Bethesda games are to RPGs what Call of Duty games are to Shooters (overhyped, samey and millions of people playing it and swearing its teh best game evah)...
"Samey" is part of what sells it to them, though.
Yes, people raved about the Wii and for the first couple of years, it was hard to find a Wii on store shelves. Now, more than 5 years later, the Wii is the console that no one likes (not even developers...LOL).

Skyrim won't have as long a tail as Morrowind and Oblivion, in my opinion. That's what happens when your best feature is a gimmick (like motion controls).
 

Epona

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T8B95 said:
Crono1973 said:
Bomberman4000 said:
I don't get why people who don't like Skyrim go out of their way to try to convert people who do. What it sounds like to me is that people who don't like Skyrim can't accept that they're in the minority so they ***** and complain about it to try and get more people on their side, OR they ***** and moan because they feel it's cooler to be on the outside of the majority on an issue.

It's been said before that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but just because you're the most stubborn about arguing about it doesn't make you right. "Good" is a relative term. "Perfect" is a relative term. "Quality" is a relative term. Reviews and everything that goes in them are all subjective. It's fine to disagree, but with what I've been reading so far it just sounds like a lot of complaining because something is popular that you don't think should be.
It's more the opposite. It sounds to me like the people who like Skyrim are shouting down those who don't. Don't let me shatter your illusions though.
All of the reviewers, critics, journalists, and gamers who have posted something to the effect of "This is the best game of the year" would like to have a word with you.

OT: If someone doesn't like this game, I can respect that. HOWEVER, there is a difference between "I don't like this game," and "This is a bad game."

Skyrim is not a bad game. At worst it is above average. It has a massive game world, literally thousands of NPC's, and dozens if not hundreds of quests. Its mechanics and execution work well enough. It has a large backstory filled with lore.

All of this is not even counting the largest draw (to me at least): it makes you feel like a part of the world. If you steal from someone, they will send thugs after you to get revenge. Thieves occasionally run up to you and hand you a stolen item, followed by the guy he stole it from, whereupon you can either hand it back to him or lie aabout it. These are just random actions that have no bearing on the story, but draw you into the world.

People need to understand that their opinion is not synonymous with absolute truth. I find it odd that some people will readily admit to liking bad games/movies/books, but no one will admit that the game/movie/book that they hate is good.
I think you just proved my point. There are more people on the "Skyrim is awesome" side of the fence and they aren't exactly silencing their opinions. Thanks...I guess.

BTW, "I don't like this game" = "This is a bad game". If you view things as opinions unless stated otherwise, then you can easily see this point.

Also, I would say that any game that wasn't made by Bethesda or Obsidian that shipped with this many bugs would have been called a bad game bu reviewers.
 

Eventidal

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Seems to me like a classic case of going into a game expecting it to be shit and criticizing every element of the game as you go because you're playing in the wrong mindset to begin with. It's pure-and-simple self-fulfilling prophecy. Few games are actually flawless enough to make someone enjoy the game when they go into it the way you did with Skyrim. You enjoyed nothing and saw only the bad because you, consciously or subconsciously, only wanted to see the negative. You wanted to hate it and you did.

This is called "being Yahtzee" and it means you will almost never enjoy a game because you'll be so focused on the bad that you rarely ever appreciate the good. It means that you're so blind to what a game does right that you would never be able to understand why other people enjoy it.

TL;DR: Just lighten up and have fun. Don't ever go into a game with crazy expectations, high or low, because you set yourself up for this. Play games, get lost in them, and have fun. Otherwise gaming is going to feel like a job. Forced, painful, and boring. If you're spending every minute eyeing the animations or thinking about how awful the delivery of that voice acting was, you'll never enjoy yourself.
 

Savagezion

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Crono1973 said:
Yeah, I get that but I don't ever feel like I am the character I am playing in a video game so it makes no difference to me if I am Lightning, Crono or the character in an TES game. BTW, Chrono Trigger used the Active Time Battle system so if you just stood there trying to decide what to do, Lavos would kick your ass.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Last time I played Chrono was like '97 or '98. I just remember it being take turns whacking each other. Also when I say "I beat them" I mean my actions are what did it. My timing, my decisions in the heat of the battle, and my execution of battle tactics. I don't say that to discredit a game that doesn't offer action controls. I just think that being excited about fighting dragons in Skyrim makes perfect sense. No other game offers a parallel experience. (Surprisingly considering how classic warrior vs. dragon is)
 

Darkmantle

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karoliso said:
Sonic Doctor said:
The unscripted-ness of the game is main reason I find it so awesome. I like having a few games where I'm not lead on through the dance, but instead I can make my own dance and random dancers barge in on occasion where I have to change the steps in my dance.
If you think that Skyrim shines in the area of "unscripted-ness" I suggest you try Dwarf Fortress. Compared to DF Skyrim would be considered a game on rails.
more accurate would be saying if skyrim is a story of epic adventure and glory, then DF is vicious, vicious RAPE.

that's what DF does, it rapes you. that's all there is to it. It's eye-rape, it's control-rape, it's story-rape. and most likely there is some actual rape.

compared to DF, skyrim is a much better GAME. as a 10 000 ways to get your ass destroyed simulator, dwarf fortress wins.

don't lead people looking for unscripted gameplay to DF, it will disappoint and make people hat it. trust me, personal experience. for myself and at least half a dozen others who the sole DF fan among my friends convinced to try that awful excuse for a game.

Duffeknol said:
To the OP: So, let me get this straight. you didn't like the NPC animations (calling the preposterously bad, which is factually bullshit, apparently you have only played 2-3 games in your life if you think skyrim is "preposterously bad" in that department), didn't like the "weightless ragdoll physics" (factually wrong again, pick up a pan (hold e on cpu) move it around, now try and up pick a body, or a giant's body, not weightless now is it) and it had bugs. When people on the internet called you out on this, you took it personally. right?

It seems to me that you got upset that people talked bad about you on an internet forum, and it coloured your opinion on the rest of the game. From that point on you no doubt DELIBERATELY looked for flaws in the game design, just to prove yourself right (it's human nature after all)and now you assume that everyone had the same experience as you. If you weren't so jaded at the beginning, you would have had a better time.

and on a personal note, if you think oblivion is even close to skyrim in terms of quality, you are very clearly bias or blind. I played both, still havent played as much skyrim as I have oblivion yet, and man, is skyrim so much better, right from the beginning. I'm telling you, the dragon attack, WAAAAAAYYYY better intro than the dumb sewer level. that's just the start. It already beats both oblivion and morrowind right from the intro.

It is possible you don't like these kinds of games, that's fine. but I defy you to find a game that does what skyrim does, better. I don't think it exists.









Crono1973 said:
I think you just proved my point. There are more people on the "Skyrim is awesome" side of the fence and they aren't exactly silencing their opinions. Thanks...I guess.

BTW, "I don't like this game" = "This is a bad game". If you view things as opinions unless stated otherwise, then you can easily see this point.

Also, I would say that any game that wasn't made by Bethesda or Obsidian that shipped with this many bugs would have been called a bad game bu reviewers.
The OP specifically stated the game was bad. That sets the tone for the rest of the discussion. Skyrim is given a pass on bugs because of two things. 1, most are just funny, not game breaking, and 2, I expect a huge game to have more bugs than a small game. for example, lets say skyrim is twice as big as, I dunno, D3. if D3 has 30 bugs, I would expect skyrim to have 60. it's acceptable due to proportionality.
 

T8B95

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Crono1973 said:
BTW, "I don't like this game" = "This is a bad game". If you view things as opinions unless stated otherwise, then you can easily see this point.

Also, I would say that any game that wasn't made by Bethesda or Obsidian that shipped with this many bugs would have been called a bad game bu reviewers.
Fine. I don't like Half-Life, Mass Effect, or GTA. Does that make them bad games? It's less about viewing everything as opinions and more about viewing opinions as facts. Just because I don't like Half-Life, Mass Effect, or GTA does not make them bad games, just like you and the OP not liking Skyrim does not make it a bad game.

And a final word about bugs...I haven't experienced many of them myself, so I may just be talking out of my ass here, but I think that the game is great despite (and occasionally because of) its glitches. Lots of reviewers acknowledged that the game contained bugs, but they were willing to overlook them in light of their relative rarity, and didn't let them ruin the quality of the game. Your mileage, of course, may vary considerably.
 

Epona

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Savagezion said:
Crono1973 said:
Yeah, I get that but I don't ever feel like I am the character I am playing in a video game so it makes no difference to me if I am Lightning, Crono or the character in an TES game. BTW, Chrono Trigger used the Active Time Battle system so if you just stood there trying to decide what to do, Lavos would kick your ass.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Last time I played Chrono was like '97 or '98. I just remember it being take turns whacking each other. Also when I say "I beat them" I mean my actions are what did it. My timing, my decisions in the heat of the battle, and my execution of battle tactics. I don't say that to discredit a game that doesn't offer action controls. I just think that being excited about fighting dragons in Skyrim makes perfect sense. No other game offers a parallel experience. (Surprisingly considering how classic warrior vs. dragon is)
Sounds like you may be due for another playthrough of Chrono Trigger....just food for thought. If you do, the DS version is the best one.
 

Epona

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T8B95 said:
Crono1973 said:
BTW, "I don't like this game" = "This is a bad game". If you view things as opinions unless stated otherwise, then you can easily see this point.

Also, I would say that any game that wasn't made by Bethesda or Obsidian that shipped with this many bugs would have been called a bad game bu reviewers.
Fine. I don't like Half-Life, Mass Effect, or GTA. Does that make them bad games? It's less about viewing everything as opinions and more about viewing opinions as facts. Just because I don't like Half-Life, Mass Effect, or GTA does not make them bad games, just like you and the OP not liking Skyrim does not make it a bad game.

And a final word about bugs...I haven't experienced many of them myself, so I may just be talking out of my ass here, but I think that the game is great despite (and occasionally because of) its glitches. Lots of reviewers acknowledged that the game contained bugs, but they were willing to overlook them in light of their relative rarity, and didn't let them ruin the quality of the game. Your mileage, of course, may vary considerably.
When people say something is a bad game, most of the time they are saying that in their opinion, it is a bad game. They could go on and on listing the reasons why it is it a bad game. The same reasons they don't like it. I am saying, the terms are interchangeable.

The bugs in Skyrim are indisputable but reviewers let it go. I am saying that if it were a game made by Square Enix, they would not have let it go. I'll give you an example, I was listening to a podcast (Official Playstation pdocast maybe) and they were answering letters and one person wrote in about the framerate issues on the PS3. Their attitude was that if they didn't experience the issues, they must not be that bad. That's the kind of free pass that Bethesda got on this game and it's BS.

BTW, there was a Square Enix game on the 360 with framerate issues and every reviewer condemned the game for it. The framerate wasn't as bad as the PS3 version of Skyrim though. Do you know what game that was?
 

Epona

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AmrasCalmacil said:
Has anyone pointed out that this forum isn't the OPs blog yet?

I should hope so. It really isn't.
You did say this to all the people who created "Skyrim is my Game of the Year" threads, right?
 

Savagezion

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Crono1973 said:
Sounds like you may be due for another playthrough of Chrono Trigger....just food for thought. If you do, the DS version is the best one.
Yeah, I plan to get it on DS when I get around to picking up a DS. Hehe. I have seriously been considering it though and CT was a game I planned to pick up right off the bat. Been staring at them for a while. Then the 3DS came out and I am looking at it and the DSiXL and can't decide. I will probably pick one up this year and make up my mind but I need to look into it further. I would love it if a 3DSXL came out but I doubt it will happen.
 

Epona

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Savagezion said:
Crono1973 said:
Sounds like you may be due for another playthrough of Chrono Trigger....just food for thought. If you do, the DS version is the best one.
Yeah, I plan to get it on DS when I get around to picking up a DS. Hehe. I have seriously been considering it though and CT was a game I planned to pick up right off the bat. Been staring at them for a while. Then the 3DS came out and I am looking at it and the DSiXL and can't decide. I will probably pick one up this year and make up my mind but I need to look into it further. I would love it if a 3DSXL came out but I doubt it will happen.
If it were me, I would wait on the 3DS until the redesign where they add the second analog nub. The DSiXL is nice though.
 

karoliso

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Darkmantle said:
compared to DF, skyrim is a much better GAME
I would not agree with that. Far from it. from a purely mechanical perspective DF is superior GAME. And I'm not talking about petty dressing over game mecahnics like story, visuals, etc. What are Skyrims mecahnics? spamming mouse one in front of a monster until it falls down.
 

T8B95

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Crono1973 said:
When people say something is a bad game, most of the time they are saying that in their opinion, it is a bad game. They could go on and on listing the reasons why it is it a bad game. The same reasons they don't like it. I am saying, the terms are interchangeable.

The bugs in Skyrim are indisputable but reviewers let it go. I am saying that if it were a game made by Square Enix, they would not have let it go. I'll give you an example, I was listening to a podcast (Official Playstation pdocast maybe) and they were answering letters and one person wrote in about the framerate issues on the PS3. Their attitude was that if they didn't experience the issues, they must not be that bad. That's the kind of free pass that Bethesda got on this game and it's BS.

BTW, there was a Square Enix game on the 360 with framerate issues and every reviewer condemned the game for it. The framerate wasn't as bad as the PS3 version of Skyrim though. Do you know what game that was?
I can freely say that I have not a clue what game it was. Enlighten me.

If I had to try and fathom the reasons that reviewers panned that game and not Skyrim, I would guess that the Square Enix game wasn't a massive, open-world game that made up for its flaws with an expertly crafted game world that had hundreds of hours of gameplay. Just a guess.

Once again, just because a small and vocal minority of people say that a game is bad doesn't make it a universal fact. What's a more likely explanation, that everyone else is wrong and that you are the one bastion of truth, or that you dislike something that everyone else loves? The plain truth is, nothing can win universal praise.
 

Don Savik

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Oh yay another "lookit me complain on a forum about a popular game. IM SO GODDAM EDGY!!!!!! AAAARRRRRRGHHHHHH" *stabs his eyes out with a pair of hipster shades*

Its not like we see one of these 10 times a day. Listen, you bought a game that was too open? for you and you didn't like it. Tough. Return it. If you can't then tough. The game is tons of fun for many many many many people, at least acknowledge this and why this is. I fail to see the point of these complain threads. Buggy? Yes these games have lots of bugs because they are released on a deadline. But who cares? All the bugs get patched out in due time. I just see the same complaints this game has been getting from since before Skyrim came out. Stop trolling to make yourself look like a badass because you didn't like Skyrim, just stop. Please, please do it for the children.
 

Epona

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T8B95 said:
Crono1973 said:
When people say something is a bad game, most of the time they are saying that in their opinion, it is a bad game. They could go on and on listing the reasons why it is it a bad game. The same reasons they don't like it. I am saying, the terms are interchangeable.

The bugs in Skyrim are indisputable but reviewers let it go. I am saying that if it were a game made by Square Enix, they would not have let it go. I'll give you an example, I was listening to a podcast (Official Playstation pdocast maybe) and they were answering letters and one person wrote in about the framerate issues on the PS3. Their attitude was that if they didn't experience the issues, they must not be that bad. That's the kind of free pass that Bethesda got on this game and it's BS.

BTW, there was a Square Enix game on the 360 with framerate issues and every reviewer condemned the game for it. The framerate wasn't as bad as the PS3 version of Skyrim though. Do you know what game that was?
I can freely say that I have not a clue what game it was. Enlighten me.

If I had to try and fathom the reasons that reviewers panned that game and not Skyrim, I would guess that the Square Enix game wasn't a massive, open-world game that made up for its flaws with an expertly crafted game world that had hundreds of hours of gameplay. Just a guess.

Once again, just because a small and vocal minority of people say that a game is bad doesn't make it a universal fact. What's a more likely explanation, that everyone else is wrong and that you are the one bastion of truth, or that you dislike something that everyone else loves? The plain truth is, nothing can win universal praise.
That game was The Last Remnant.

I also think the excuse that Skyrim is big, so it's ok if it runs like shit is ridiculous. That's just bias plain and simple.
 

Athinira

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Ragsnstitches said:
Regardless of what others have said, I think Bethesda has created a great game. Not because of polish, or production values, or even plot, but because it offers a well realised and ambitious frame for a Role Player. It doesn't guide me down a set path, at no point do I feel constraint and every action I take feels like I'm exercising my own will in this virtual world. By no means did it get it perfectly... at almost every level it could do with improvements, some more so then others.

But the game still stands out to me. Besides other TES games or Fallout 3/New Vegas, there are no other games that fill that spot that Skyrim has created in me. Other games have better stories, better gameplay, better graphics, better overall execution... but for me, nothing is as engrossing as Skyrim. It perfects nothing yet excels at what it aims to do. It is greater then the sum of all its parts.

I appreciate the game for what it is but I'm not blind to it's flaws either. However I like if not love the game as it is and any improvement on the formula will only make me like it more.
So what you're basically saying (reading your critical points) is that you like the formula the game is based on. This is also what I've been saying about Skyrim from the start: The game is a world class recipe. It just could do with a better cook.

One thing i can't do is write this post without giving you commendations for the amount of bad design you were able to point out in the game. It's by far the most I've seen from a Skyrim fan, and it definitely makes me take you more seriously than the rest (even if i don't agree).

Ragsnstitches said:
Do not dismiss it as some sort of psychological affliction... I find that notion grossly offensive, it's also a massive cop out in any topic as you would like keeping picking on the flipside of any point made and imply that it's all in our heads.

Which funnily enough, it all is...
There is a difference between your opinion being "worth less" and your opinion being in the "appropriate place". The worth of your opinion depends entirely on who wants it. If the person asking is a game that has the same fetish for Open World games as you, then your opinion is worth 10 times mine to him. That still doesn't mean that your opinion, if it's based on emotional attachment, is appropriate in every place (in this case game critique). It's the same reason that the justice system doesn't appoint family members of someone who was murdered to judge the murderer. Some fields requires emotional detachment (and some require emotional attachment).

Ragsnstitches said:
Your not a special person.
I don't need to be special to be more knowledgable about a subject than someone else.

The trick, of course, is convincing people that you're more knowledgeable. Failing to convince people of that can be fatal, but it doesn't mean you weren't right/more knowledgable. Case in point: The first people who claimed that earth was round, not flat (and who was executed for being heathens on that count).

Ragsnstitches said:
Critical analyses is very easily attained. The difficulty is tempering your critical eye as to not detract from the overall piece. A fair judgement is made on all it's merits against it's deficiencies.
And this is where you are so so wrong. The job of a critic is NOT to review something. It's to point out flaws.

If two people (a reviewer and a critic) were served at soup which happens to be a bit to salty, the reviewer might say something like "It was overall a great soup with a lot of attractive flavors and a nice consistency, which unfortunately was let down by it being a bit too salty. But i otherwise enjoyed it at a nice price". The job of the critic, on the other hand, is to point out one single thing: "This soup is a bit too salty". That's it.

It's a reviewers job to temper their critical eye and make sure that their overall review of a product takes everything into account. A true critic, however, only has one job: Pointing out mistakes and bad design decisions/practices so they can be corrected.

Ragsnstitches said:
Having a grudge against deficiencies that inhibits your ability to see it's merits makes you unfit to judge.
And as i said, it's not a critics job to judge.

It's not a critics job to have a grudge either. Like i said, i enjoyed Skyrim, and i can see why other people like it (and even why they might like things that i despited about it). But when you put on your critic glasses, grudges and affinities have to disappear, and you need to remember that the things that made you love Skyrim despite its flaws (your nice little list earlier) might not make someone else love Skyrim despite the flaws, so the only thing you can objectively stick to in that case is, well, the flaws.

Ragsnstitches said:
"High standards" means you hold something to a standard that is above average or, more often then not, your idea of perfection. othing will ever meet an individuals view on perfection, let alone the masses, so again that makes you unfit to judge. Not to mention the "average" is also entirely subjective (unless you can pull out statistics and documented facts), meaning it's just as unreliable in making a fair judgement on something as it would be if you judged it against perfection.
Not really. You are confusing the word "Standards" with judging if something is below/above average. That's not the same. Standards are common requirements, and there are many kinds of standards, like technical standards, educational standards, architectural standards (like my example with the house below), engineering standards. "High standards" mean that you look at something and ask yourself "How is this piece of work done compared to similar products". Emphasis here on "work", because the work done doesn't say much about how the result turned out to be. Modern Warfare 3 being the best selling game ever doesn't mean (from a critical standpoint) that it was the best piece of work done ever.

You can't describe perfection. But you can describe when something is terrible work.

Let me give you an example: I can't describe the perfect house, but i can still (as a critic) say that a house which has terrible insulation against cold (meaning it leaks heat through holes or walls made of a bad material) is a terrible piece of work. That doesn't mean that the fault can't be ignored. If you have a lot of body fat, or a lot of money and don't mind a high heat bill, then it's perfectly possible to live in the house comfrtably. That still doesn't change that it's still a terrible piece of house-design from a critical standpoint, and therefore low standards work (at least in that regard).

I don't judge the house. I just point out that something about the building of the house wasn't planned or executed very well by architectural standards, and similarly I'm just pointing out how some things about Skyrim aren't planned or executed very well compared to gaming standards (not at least the terrible amount of glitches and crashes).
 

Trippy Turtle

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I like Skyrim because I don't expect anything from it. All the people complaining seem to have expected some extremely immersive RPG where the NPC's have more character then people in real life do. I can't see how something like Mario gets a better reception then Skyrim other then people expecting things that realistically won't happen.