I just uninstalled Skyrim

[RagTagBand]

snip

For what it's worth OP I completely agree with you on pretty much every point, They're things that I optimistically hoped (and not just to myself either, I voiced those hopes) had been fixed from Oblivion and was unsurprisingly let down by in Skyrim.

- They still use ~10 voice actors per 100 characters. Not having them talk to one another randomly was a good move but its still blatantly obvious.

- NPC's still have the Dead eyed, lifeless stare. They still stand perfectly still when talking, and they still only express themselves with the lower half of their face. Oh but thanks for removing the Pause/zoom thing, How long did that take you Bethesda? An afternoon? Lunch? What an improvement.

- Striking an enemy still only has a visible effect a quarter of the time. I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure that I'd react every time someone hit me with a sword; No other game has this immersion breaking failing to this consistent degree if at all. I pointed out that Skyrims combat animation (not plural, just one, the "Staggered" one) is put to shame by Crytek's 2004 game "FarCry" which still managed to have better animations despite only using ragdolls on a different forum and people berated me for setting the bar too high. Being on par with an 8 year old game is apparently accepted as being too difficult for Bethesda.

- Bugs up the ass, Everywhere. "Oh but some are funny" people say, I suppose that excuses lazy developers; "Make your mistakes lulzy". I'd forgive them if the bugs were in the late-game content, but 10-20 minutes in is just appalling, Is there a single quest in Skyrim which doesn't have a bug associated with it?

So really, Combat is broken, dialog is broken and often the very game itself will break. What is left to claim as working?

And everywhere I post this damning flaws people point out "Well its a very BIG game with MILLIONS of quests, thats what they spent their time doing over the past 4 years"...What happened to Quality over Quantity? When Did immersion and gameplay start taking a backseat to volume-of-shit-to-do?

I would happily take a game with half its quantity (especially seeing as I will be bored of this game long before I've seen all it's content) but with twice-as much quality going into other aspects of development. The aspects they've been ignoring for over a half-dozen years.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

I think calling people a troll for having an unpopular opinion is being a troll. Being a troll is not more likely, most people on the internet are not trolls and statistically speaking, most people who start threads are not doing it just to piss other people off. That would be trolling.

In general yes, but when an unlikely claim is made that's obviously going to be inflammatory, it's not unreasonable to suspect a troll. I'm not saying he was trolling, in fact, while I may have been suspicious when he made the first thread, I believe him now. I'm suggesting to him why he got such a hostile response.

 

[Epona]

there are still good things about it. Some people may not be as willing to discuss why a game is good rather than why a game is bad.

Sure Skyrim MAY have some good things, but I challenge you to tell me what they are, and why they in turn make the game special. Your going to really have to rack your brain and be real imaginative with this one, because there isn't anything good in Skyrim. There are some mediocre things, and there are bad things.

Well, first of all, you are contradicting yourself here. First you say there MAY be some good things, then you state that there isn't anything good, only some mediocre and bad things.

But, since you challenge people to find ANYTHING good about Skyrim, here goes: I find it very hard to believe that you feel the quite sizeable world of Skyrim (in which not a single area has been done by repeating copy/paste work), which they sculpted meticulously and looks really good despite having low-res textures, is at best a mediocre thing, or that the amazing score, by Jeremy Soule, is at best a mediocre thing.

So, your argument is that there is no copy/pate work in Skyrim?

By that I mean that the landscape is never the same in any one place. Textures and props will obviously be copy/pasted, you can't avoid such a thing, but overall I find the world of Skyrim to be satisfyingly varied. There have been plenty of times where I took my horse over a hill top to be struck again by a new vista, which makes exploring the land a lot more interesting and fun.

At its peak, the fuss over Skyrim approximated a craze bordering on the fanatical, and I always felt it didn't warrant that, but to say it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever is another extreme it doesn't warrant. I feel I have to at least give credit to its marvelous presentation.

It all looks the same to me, the difference is that I like green forests better than snowy mountains, that's just a personal preference. The dungeons look the same, sure there may be a different layout but the textures are the same and unless you memorize the dungeons, you aren't going to know it this left turn was present in another dungeon.

Nothing wrong with that, that's the way video games are made but saying there is no copy/paste is ridiculous. I'll bet the same snowy set piece is used over and over again and you just don't notice it.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

I didn't present my opinion as right.

no one could possibly wrap his head around the fact that I might actually be right.

I would've liked the game a lot more if I didn't feel "goddamnit, but I was right about this!" all the time.

I think I found the problem here. Congratulations, you don't like Skyrim, we disagree with you, none of us are right or wrong, etc.

And on second thought, I don't have a problem with people making threads like this, but you yourself said you already have. Why does this exist? Especially when you already knew how it would turn out? You got burned once, and you willingly threw yourself back in the fire.

You saved me some cut'n'pastin there.

OT: We get it, you're edgy. I liked something and you didn't. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Wait, actually, don't. I don't know what you hope to achieve through this thread, but it's unlikely that you'll reverse the hours of fun I had with it, or cause any worthwhile discussion.

 

[karoliso]

1.) Combat: With the edition of a duel wield system I can get even more get even more hack and slash goodness with a sword and an axe, or any other single wield weapon. I can have magicka in one hand shocking the enemy silly while slashing them and setting them on fire with my sword in the other.

I found combat to be the weakest part of the game. It usually boils down to mashing m1/m2 while frantically consuming potions and whatnot.

5.) The sheer joy of crafting my own set of armor with special buffs, something that is usually only seen in MMOs. Oh how I love my glass armor, all golden and teal.

Crafting is completely messed up. All I did was spam iron daggers until I got a high smithing rating and got myself the Daedric set which turned the game into a joke at that point (combat-wise).

8.) DRAGONS!!! Woooot!!

Oh how I truly hate when people just say DRAGONS and think it's a point in the games favour. Skyrim turns dragons into another random mob that you need to kill over and over again. In fact bears pose a bigger threat than dragons do.

 

[Oly J]

And I feel nothing.

This game literally has been one of the most miserable gaming experiences of my life. I was 'lucky' enough to be able to play it a few days before it came out (the PS3 version was already being sold here, and my friend had bought it). I saw the preposterously bad NPC-character animations, the same weightless ragdoll physics, the same pointless and consequence-free gameplay and the same amount of bugs as Oblivion's. I went on this forum to downplay people's INSANE expectations, and got 10+ pages of people calling me a troll and flaming me to death.

From that day forward, I could only see the game's flaws. I couldn't enjoy it. I played through the main story once, did pretty much everything else with another character, but all I felt throughout playing the game was hatred. Nothing I did mattered, because the only consequence ANY of your actions have is sometimes hearing a guard say one fucking other line than 'arrow to the knee'. Now, some people play an Elder Scrolls game as some kind of playground. They don't care. They just download mods and dick around in the world for hundreds of hours, throwing chickens at bystanders and whatnot. Fine. Other people would like an immersive RPG experience, which Bethesda is still unable to provide in any way, since every NPC still acts like a lobotomized robot.

I then proceeded to download the child killing mod and the 'set every NPC to non-essential' mod, since I wanted to be able to go Morrowind on the game's ass. Cause, you have to admit, setting pretty much half of the game's NPCs to essential was just bullshit. I mean, for fuck's sakes, you couldn't even kill most of the beggars. I then literally killed off all of Skyrim's population systematically. This helped deal with my frustration with them not acting like proper NPCs. At least when they were dead they didn't annoy me. But now I'm done, and the game is gone.

I hope I forget about Skyrim, the biggest load of shit I have ever had on my harddrive.

EDIT: Also, enough with the 'so you didn't like it big deal don't make a thread about it'. Shut up.

This is a forum for gaming discussion. I disliked a game and I stated my reasons. I wanted to write this thread because I was frustrated with the game, and after posting it, I felt better. This had led to a discussion.

How about I turn your own weapons against you: if you don't want to read about people having a negative opinion on a game you like, don't click those threads and don't reply. This point is as moot as yours.

I'm not telling you that if you like this game you are wrong, dumb, or anything along those lines. I didn't like this game because of above reasons. If you liked it, I'm happy for you, since you're having fun. If you read more into this post and feel personally attacked, lay off the caffeine.

honestly I think if you did everything in the game then you were enjoying it a fair bit more than you may be willing to admit, if you really weren't enjoying it I find it difficult to beleive that you would continue playing for as long as it takes to even finish the main quest unless you happened to be a paid game critic and thus, professionally obligated to do so

 

[Epona]

I think it's pretty sad when an opinion is invalid because he BOUGHT the game.

I think it's pretty sad too. I also think it's nothing that has to do with anything I said.

Let's take a look:

He did the smart thing and didn't buy it. Can't say the same about you.

Nope, it has nothing to do with what you said. Of course, if the OP hadn't bought the game and played through it, he would be told that his opinion is invalid because he didn't put enough time into it.

 

[Hal10k]

It seems to me that comments like yours (and there are many) are really saying that those who hate Oblivion will be the most likely to love Skyrim. To me, that is evidence enough of how far Skyrim has strayed from the expectations of TES fans. In short, Bethesda sold out TES fans.

Buh?

They're extraordinarily similar, sharing almost all the same virtues and all the same flaws.

Hate Skyrim if that floats your boat. But sold out TES fans? Good grief, people.

Maybe you haven't noticed all the "Oblivion sucked, Skyrim is the best game ever!" posts?

...apart from the fact that Oblivion is one of 4 Elder Scrolls games that came before Skyrim? It lived up to and blew apart my expectations, as a person who loved Morrowind, likes Daggerfall and can't stand Oblivion.

Why can't you stand Oblivion but like Morrowind and Skyrim?

The common sentiments that I have seen point out the somewhat generic environment design, copy-and-paste locations, comically bad voice acting, the flawed leveling system, and the fact that all of the NPCs looked like potatoes. Many people who disliked Oblivion for these reasons felt that Skyrim addressed these concerns well.

It didn't though.

Skyrim has:

- generic environment design (ie, mountains and snow vs forests)
- copy and paste locations
- bad voice acting and comic dialog (ie, the arrow to the knee and the horrific german accent)
- the level scaling system is better but not by much
- The NPC's do look better but that hardly helps gameplay

Like I said, people felt that Skyrim addressed these concerns. Something that feels unique or interesting to one person will feel generic or boring to another. Different people take up different cues from their surroundings. The people who are complimenting Skyrim over Oblivion are the ones who saw positive differences in the game.

You didn't answer my a question then. I ask why YOU like Morrowind and Skyrim and not Oblivion. I know what every one else is saying and I think none of it rings true (as I pointed out with bullet points).

I think Skyrim is worse because the leveling system has been reduced to three attributes and perks. The perks being far more important than your skills (you can have a high skill level in something but it not be as good as having a low skill level plus a perk).

Don't take my words the wrong way: I liked Oblivion. Not as much as I liked Morrowind, and I'm still reserving judgement on Skyrim until I can reflect upon it more in hindsight, but I still thought Oblivion was really good, especially when you take Shivering Isles into account. It still had flaws, though, and the reason Skyrim has garnered so much praise is that many people feel it addresses those flaws. This may not ring true to you, but it does for many people. And if somebody says "I enjoyed Skyrim's locations more than Oblivion's" or "I liked the voice acting in Skyrim more than Oblivion", you can't really tell them that they're wrong.

I'm not entirely sure how we segued into a discussion of the leveling system, but I prefer the perk system to the previous game's linear stat progressions. It allows for greater specialization, even if you've managed to max out your stats, and makes for immediate, noticeable benefits to leveling, as opposed to "You can swing your sword incrementally faster". It seems like a natural extension of Oblivion's "You can cast Expert Level Destruction magic now" stuff, at least in that regard.

So you like the perks better, what did you think of Morrowinds leveling system? Better yet, what did you like about Morrowind that Oblivion didn't have but Skyrim did?

So you understand where these questions are coming from, let me explain my POV. Oblivion had the same skill level system as Morrowind, just fewer skills but still plenty. Oblivion had the attributes that could be directly altered just like Morrowind. Oblivion had the same means of leveling your skills (ie, use them to level them). So under the hood, Oblivion and Morrowind are more similar to each they other than either is to Skyrim. In fact, on the Bethesda forums, one guy told me that Skyrim is not an RPG at all. I have to to agree that it is less RPG than previous TES games.

I wasn't much of a fan of Morrowind's leveling system either- It was essentially the same as Oblivion's, except it made everything take longer. What I loved about Morrowind was the setting. You had cities constructed underneath the shells of ancient insects, Daedric temples with twisted architecture, steampunk Dwemer ruins, Lovecraftian cattle, and plains choked with volcanic ash, and much more. And more importantly, it all seemed to fit together. Everything from the architecture to the environment design to the costume design went together to create a sense of place that Oblivion just lacked for me. Oblivion just felt artificial to me. It felt like somebody had taken figures from a D&D board game and shaken them loose upon the table. The only locations that felt interesting were the Deadlands, and we all know the problems that the Oblivion Gates had. Skyrim goes a long way towards recapturing the feeling of uniqueness and realism that Morrowind had for me- it may not be as utterly alien as Morrowind, but it's unique enough to make me want to explore in a way Oblivion didn't.

Now, "RPG" is, by necessity, a rather vague genre. I seem to recall seeing many threads recently on the definition of the term where everybody walks in with a different definition and subsequently walks out angry. To me, thinking in terms of stats, an RPG has to force the player to specialize. Something that will give the player all available benefits given enough time, such as Call of Duty's multiplayer, is not an RPG. But something that forces the player to adopt a particular playstyle as they level up, and will actually play differently if they pick another playstyle, is an RPG. In this way, I think Skyrim is even more of an RPG than any of the previous games. In Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, or Oblivion, you can become the undisputed master of all available skills given enough time. There isn't always a cap, but there's always a point where leveling up any further just becomes redundant. At that point, you can adopt pretty much any playstyle and expect the same amount of success. But in Skyrim, the limited number of perks forces the player to choose a particular playstyle. Even if you level up all of your skills to 100, you're going to be most effective with your preferred playstyle- the one you've put the most perks into.

 

[O maestre]

And I feel nothing.

This game literally has been one of the most miserable gaming experiences of my life. I was 'lucky' enough to be able to play it a few days before it came out (the PS3 version was already being sold here, and my friend had bought it). I saw the preposterously bad NPC-character animations, the same weightless ragdoll physics, the same pointless and consequence-free gameplay and the same amount of bugs as Oblivion's. I went on this forum to downplay people's INSANE expectations, and got 10+ pages of people calling me a troll and flaming me to death.

From that day forward, I could only see the game's flaws. I couldn't enjoy it. I played through the main story once, did pretty much everything else with another character, but all I felt throughout playing the game was hatred. Nothing I did mattered, because the only consequence ANY of your actions have is sometimes hearing a guard say one fucking other line than 'arrow to the knee'. Now, some people play an Elder Scrolls game as some kind of playground. They don't care. They just download mods and dick around in the world for hundreds of hours, throwing chickens at bystanders and whatnot. Fine. Other people would like an immersive RPG experience, which Bethesda is still unable to provide in any way, since every NPC still acts like a lobotomized robot.

I then proceeded to download the child killing mod and the 'set every NPC to non-essential' mod, since I wanted to be able to go Morrowind on the game's ass. Cause, you have to admit, setting pretty much half of the game's NPCs to essential was just bullshit. I mean, for fuck's sakes, you couldn't even kill most of the beggars. I then literally killed off all of Skyrim's population systematically. This helped deal with my frustration with them not acting like proper NPCs. At least when they were dead they didn't annoy me. But now I'm done, and the game is gone.

I hope I forget about Skyrim, the biggest load of shit I have ever had on my harddrive.

EDIT: Also, enough with the 'so you didn't like it big deal don't make a thread about it'. Shut up.

This is a forum for gaming discussion. I disliked a game and I stated my reasons. I wanted to write this thread because I was frustrated with the game, and after posting it, I felt better. This had led to a discussion.

How about I turn your own weapons against you: if you don't want to read about people having a negative opinion on a game you like, don't click those threads and don't reply. This point is as moot as yours.

I'm not telling you that if you like this game you are wrong, dumb, or anything along those lines. I didn't like this game because of above reasons. If you liked it, I'm happy for you, since you're having fun. If you read more into this post and feel personally attacked, lay off the caffeine.

Hey TC where or what is the discussion value in this thread? or wait is this just an attention grabbing rant? man i despise these kinds of threads.

here is a discussion topic, how come you felt compelled to write a thread displaying your martyred opinion to the internet without inciting to any sort of game related debate.

and before you label me just another fanboy, i am not annoyed that you didn't like the game rather i am annoyed at people like you who cannot resist posting their contrarian opinion for the sole purpose of getting attention. not once in your OP did you write any sort of alternatives or counter points to your arguments, or anything that would have allowed the reader a chance to analyse your thoughts and discuss possible solutions, or practical dilemmas, or better still differing perspectives.

your last sentence says it all "I hope I forget about Skyrim, the biggest load of shit I have ever had on my harddrive."

now tell me why you wrote this, if not for the specific reason of getting attention for your hissy fit. provocation without substance, is not the hallmark of critical thinking

 

[RatRace123]

Eh, I like it. It's way better than Oblivion, so I'm happy with that.

But, Bethesda games still lack that something I like in an RPG. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm guessing it's the characters. Yes, they can build amazing game worlds, but those worlds are dead. I don't feel any connection to the NPCs, or the story.
And the overall randomness of the world, still disconnects with me. I guess I like some linearity, more linearity than Bethesda games supply anyway.

But, I still like it, regardless of my beefs with it and regardless of the glitches. Though the non "funny" glitches annoy me... a lot.

 

[Vault101]

Skyrim was as I expected

but to be completly honest I dont think it deserves 1# on every damn game of the year list for 2011

 

[V8 Ninja]

It's nice to see you're one of the first in the long line of people removing Skyrim's fishhooks from themselves. While I don't think Skyrim is a bad game (I haven't even played it), I know for a fact that it has fishhooks that make people play for hours whether they like it or not. That's how it is with every Elder Scrolls game.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Look. I don't like Skyrim either. Or the Elder Scrolls at all for that matter. But reading this thread title and OP, all I could think was... why are you sharing this, exactly? I just uninstalled Alpha Protocol. FUCK Alpha Protocol was horrible. I'm not making a goddamn thread about it.

Point is, you're fanbaiting. Very hard to provoke genuine debate and discussion when that's going on.

 

[Epona]

It seems to me that comments like yours (and there are many) are really saying that those who hate Oblivion will be the most likely to love Skyrim. To me, that is evidence enough of how far Skyrim has strayed from the expectations of TES fans. In short, Bethesda sold out TES fans.

Buh?

They're extraordinarily similar, sharing almost all the same virtues and all the same flaws.

Hate Skyrim if that floats your boat. But sold out TES fans? Good grief, people.

Maybe you haven't noticed all the "Oblivion sucked, Skyrim is the best game ever!" posts?

...apart from the fact that Oblivion is one of 4 Elder Scrolls games that came before Skyrim? It lived up to and blew apart my expectations, as a person who loved Morrowind, likes Daggerfall and can't stand Oblivion.

Why can't you stand Oblivion but like Morrowind and Skyrim?

Haha, this'll take a while...

OK. Let's start with why Morrowind is my favourite game of all time. First and most foremost, the setting. From the very first moment you're thrust into the alien port of Seyda Neen, you can tell that this is one of the weirdest, and somehow most realistic games you've ever played. The creature variety is insane, with bipedal crocodiles, freakish pterosaurs, steampunk armadillos, hunks of bone and flesh patched together Frankenstein-style, and humanoid Gligars. The aesthetic is wonderfully and consistently inconsistent, which gives you an awesome feeling of being thrown into another land.

Compare and contrast Oblivion. The creatures are pretty much all standard fantasy fare, with Goblins, lions and minotaurs so heavily featured that it ends up feeling hopelessly generic. The Daedra, often the most interesting part of TES games, look a lot less colourful - compare this Clannfear [http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/17166/965689-mwcreature_clannfear_large.jpg] to Oblivion's [http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/17166/965700-oblivionclannfear_1.jpg]. Add to that the Lord Of The Rings setting and copy/pasted dungeons everywhere you look, and the magic is gone - it just feels like your typical bland fantasy game 001.

Enter Skyrim. You're back to being thrown out in a harsh environment with little direction at all. It ends up reusing a lot of the creatures from Morrowind, and almost ditching the Daedra altogether - which I can't say I'm all too happy about - but the redesigns are so good that it almost doesn't matter. The aesthetic is back to being slightly bland, with animals ranging from Sabre Cats and Mammoths to Giants and Dragons - but the difference between this and Oblivion is that firstly, the original creatures, and there are a fair few, are amazing - Wispmothers, Ice Wraiths, Falmer to name a few - but also that they actually feel realistic and varied. In Morrowind, the animals had very different attack styles, from the aerial approach taken by the Racers to the charging in of the Alits, and this is mostly missing in Oblivion, with all creatures and NPCs just walking up to you and attacking, without variation. Skyrim returns to the Morrowind style - fighting, say, a Dragon cannot be more different from the flanking tactics taken by packs of Wolves, the brutish maneuvers of the Trolls, or the Headcrab-style pouncing of Spider Centurions. The actual world, as I said, feels harsh and unique, and this is supported by the consistent idea of a wintry area mixed with all the different and interesting things the devs managed to do with them. There's so much open space that it feels inviting to explore again, rather than the unspoken suggestion to stick to the roads.

Still not done! You asked for this, you know.

So, combat systems/general gameplay. In Morrowind, EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, was decided by dice rolls D&D style. This led to a game where everything was the bare minimum it needed to be, which shifted the overall focus to the RPG mechanics. It's a rough tradeoff, and while it doesn't entirely work, it's solid. The actual combat system relies on hit/miss mechanics, which many people get turned off by - especially when they first play - but again, it's the bare minimum.

The problem with Oblivion is that while it tried to have a more involving battle system than Morrowind's, which I don't fault it for doing from a purely theoretical perspective, it ended up being mechanically the same thing as Morrowind - just with the added annoyance of it not actually feeling like you're doing anything. In Morrowind you hit them and they'll do a 'hit' animation. In Oblivion you hit them and they'll wobble a bit, with your weapon flying backwards as if they were made of rubber. It's horrifically immersion-breaking, and it's actually an incredible feat that they managed to make it more so than missing someone who's standing right next to you.

However, as I said, it's not the idea of an action-based combat system that I hate, it's the implementation. And that leads me to Skyrim. Every single part of this was designed to make it feel like you are actually wielding whichever weapon you've got equipped. Dual swords? The best tactic is to maximise your DPS by mashing both mouse keys/triggers, or holding them both down at the same time to do a move I like to all the Eviscerator. Giant warhammer? Running at them like a maniac before unleashing a power attack. Stamina affects the game in a significant way thanks to the sprinting and power attack mechanics rather than it being an annoying bar you don't pay much attention to in both Morrowind and Oblivion. And then the finishing moves come in, adding just enough cinematic brutality to make winning a fight feel like an achievement, but not so much that it becomes dull to watch every time.

Still not done...

Story. Now, I'll be the first to admit that TES hasn't exactly got the best plotlines in the universe - but I've always found it strange how people constantly fault this series for that while praising Half-Life 2 to the high heavens. Everyone's familiar with the idea in HL2 of there being a fairly generic story, but the presentation being amazing - and that is exactly what happens in Morrowind. The main plotline is standard 'you are the hero who must slay the demon', but the lore behind the Nerevarine, the justification and depth of Dagoth Ur and the Sixth House, and the little details and characters you come across along the way are what makes it interesting. Outside of the Main Quest, the guild quests are noticeably devoid of any form of overarching storyline - but the conflicts between the different factions and within them are well-defined. Outside of even this, and going into the world as a whole, there are a lot little stories and quests that all have interesting snippets of what could be considered 'story'. These make the word feel deep, grand and realistic. One more thing I want to say on this front is that in Morrowind, every bandit, Ashlander and farmer has a name. This tiny factor adds a huge amount to the depth of the world, making every character feel a bit more like an actual person. The game also has a great sense of lore about it which can take years to fully understand - but almost all of it is in plain view for the player to access, be it in the form of books, random NPC conversations, or parts of the world.

Oblivion, on the other hand... the main plot is 'fight demons in hell, save world'. It has hints of Morrowind's detail, for example in Mankar Camoran's speeches, but it doesn't really add anything to the lore that hasn't already been established about Mehrunes Dagon in previous games (AKA he's a bad Satan sorta guy). It also seems to have no real focus - you're going through random dungeons to get MacGuffins A, B and C before going and killing the biggest, baddest demon ever. It's about as deep as Doom, and at least that had some humour in it. Unlike Morrowind, the Guilds have their own self-contained overarching plotlines - but these boil down to Necromancers are bad, the Gray Fox is cool, and you... don't like the Blackwood Company? These aren't very deep at all, but I'd like to focus on the Mage's Guild plotline, because it highlights a major feature of the Lore's treatment in Oblivion. This [http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/gttpo_mannimarco_01.gif] is the King of Worms from waaay back in Daggerfall, who was an interesting, dark character, who acted with a keen sense of logic and had hands in the pockets of politicians all across the continent. And this [http://images.uesp.net/thumb/6/6e/OB-npc-Mannimarco.jpg/180px-OB-npc-Mannimarco.jpg] is him in Oblivion. You can immediately tell that he's gone from being a corrupted figure to... just some High Elf. In-game, he's gone from being a great character to some cartoonish supervillian with the depth of Team Rocket, head of some ragtag band of Necromancers that have formed to do eeeeeviiiil in the land of Cyrodiil. This is just one example of the total disrespect for the lore that features so heavily in the game - other 'great' examples include the transformation of the country from a jungle into the dull countryside I mentioned earlier, and having no references to previous Elder Scrolls games bar when they wanted to destroy something (see Mannimarco). And the detail, contained plotlines? All but gone.

And now, back to Skyrim. The story is, again, fairly generic - 'you are the chosen one who must rid the world of Dragons' - but the detail is back to Morrowind-style. Buzzwords like 'Thu'um' keep coming up, they invented an entire language just to complement it, and the civil war plotline is one of the most morally ambiguous and fleshed-out choices I've ever seen in a game. So it adds great lore to the series - but not just that, it isn't ashamed of its past. The Wolf Queen, the Red Year, a pub called 'New Gnisis Cornerclub' - these references, though small, really add a sense of connection to the old games - and admittedly, just make me happy every time I see them. And the detail that featured in Morrowind? Back to the power of ten. At least half of the dungeons I've entered have had secrets, little snippets of what happened, and just detail in general. Things like a tent with two beds, covered with flowers and a single Amulet of Mara, a madman who resurrects dead women for... pleasure, and a deserted mine bar one man crushed by rocks... these details make the game so rich and just plain cool that you can spend days just exploring every nook and cranny of Skyrim and never get bored or feel like you've completed it.

If there's one thing I feel defines the Elder Scrolls as a series, apart from the obvious exploration and worldbuilding, it's that it takes every fantasy trope out there and screws with it until it is almost completely indistinguishable from the original. Morrowind and Skyrim fit this to a T - Oblivion not so much, instead opting to play all of it completely straight. And that is not what the games should be.

And that is why I can't stand Oblivion, but like Morrowind and Skyrim. Thanks for your time, there will be no TL;DR.

WOW, thanks for the write up, I can see you are really into the TES unvierse! Ok, well I will admit that I don't care about most of these things so I have no insight to share but let's talk about some of it.

I agree that the intro to Morrowind was alot more amazing and alien-like than either Oblivion or Skyrim. It also wasn't long and drawn out. No doubt, Morrowind is the easiest game to start over and in TES games, I do alot of starting over.

Oblivion started with you in jail and in the opening dungeon but there wasn't alot of down time (time when you had no control of your character). Oblivion also let you change everything and save just before you left the sewers. You could save there and never have to replay the intro dungeon. Yes, the world was generic but I liked the world. I like sunshine and green grass. It didn't feel as alien as Morrowind and the exploration wasn't as rewarding as Morrowind but it was fine.

Skyrim is the worst intro of them all, you have to sit through that long and boring intro and the most you can do is look around at the bad feet textures. It looks more generic than Oblivion in my opinion but that's just my opinion. I live in a place where we have snow 6 months out of the year, I am not impressed by dark skies and snow. Anyway, when you finally fuckin get control of your character you still can't do much because your hands are bound. So you follow the steps to finally get the freedom to play. Something you could do within 5 minutes with Morrowind and Oblivion took around 15-20 minutes in Skyrim. then you go through the opening dungeon. To make matters worse, there is no chance to save and change everything at the end of the dungeon like you could do in Oblivion so the next time you start a new character, you gotta sit through all the BS again.

The combat feels better in Skyrim (sometimes I realized I was gritting my teeth while fighting something), I'll give it that but what does it matter if I don't enjoy the perk system? The perk grid looks like they ripped it out of Final Fantasy XIII (the Crystarium) and then made it harder to navigate. How many times have you gone to the wrong place on the perk grid by tilting the stick a little too far? The layout is just a small thing though, the real problem is that the perks are more important than raising your skills. Sorry but that shit just makes the whole system seem artificial. It makes no sense why a high skill level is less important than a perk.


About the look of enemies, I am not that bothered one way or the other. I thought the Argonians looked weird in Oblivion when I first saw them. I was just used to them in Morrowind. Now though, the ones in Morrowind look weird. To me, I am not that picky but if you are, that's cool.

I am not so concerned about story and I don't expect a good main quest from Bethesda.

 

[Savagezion]

Dragons aren't even worth a single mention unless this is the first game you've played with dragons in it. It's like getting excited over zombies in a shooter.

That's not true, every other game that has dragons are "take turns hitting each other" games. This is the first time you can actually use action controls to fight a dragon. You can track the dragons flight path with a bow, if it begins to hover - blast it with magic or a shout, when it lands wail on it. When it flies overhead spraying the ground with fire... run, duck and cover, avoid death.
The dragons in Skyrim are different than dragons in other games. These aren't turn based dragons, these are real time dragons you fight from an action pespective. It's the first time it felt like this:

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Yeah, I also would like to add to the odd drive to play games we don't like just because everyone else does. I've done it a lot and I really want to stop. I hated Arkham Asylum, but I still bought Arkham City hated that, too. I was reluctant to buy the Saints Row games because I didn't really like the idea of a jokey GTA, but lo and behold, I bought it and it turns out I don't like a jokey version of GTA. I just need to start buying games I absolutely 100% know I will like.

I haven't even started Skyrim (still waiting on patches, etc), but I didn't buy it because it was popular, I bought it because I liked Oblivion/Fallout/New Vegas. I've yet to see any Oblivion fans complain about it's inferiority to that game, just it's inferiority to a game that came out over ten years ago that I haven't played (and have no convenient way to play). If anything, I probably shouldn't give Morrowind a try because I enjoy the more recent games so much. I might not like it.

However, I didn't really like Mass Effect 1, but I really liked Mass Effect 2. And I loved Assassin's Creed 1, but hated 2. So I don't know. I just wish the quality level was more uniform and that reviews were better written than Excel spreadsheets and Nintendo Power back issues. It's why I like Yahtzee. I know his tastes and I know what he likes and dislikes. I can more accurately judge what a game will be like than a bunch of digits and decimal places.

 

[OpticalJunction]

Ok. Skyrim sucks and you're completely right. Now what? Do we all jump off a bridge together?