I just watched Capitalisam.A love story....Why the fuck don't you do something about it?

[Saltyk]

I wouldn't trust anything Michael Moore says. Pretty much for the reasons people have already stated.

Do admit its mostly for shock value, but some of the stuff he lets you know is pretty messed up.

Do companies really take out life insurance on their own employees?

Well, I know I have life insurance through my job, but I think that's for my own benefit. It pays a certain amount to whomever I declare. Been a long time since I looked at the policy. I'm not sure if it's only applicable if I die at work or not. Then again, I have my own life insurance anyway.

Do admit its mostly for shock value, but some of the stuff he lets you know is pretty messed up.

Do companies really take out life insurance on their own employees?

Companies certainly have life insurance for very valuable employees. If a CFO or Actuary dies, the business could be significantly hampered for a lengthy period of time. I've heard of "important employee" life insurance up to 1.5 million. I don't see what's wrong with that.

I understand the need for life insurance in certain jobs, getting the money paid out to your family/a charity or beneficiary is above board and all well and good. But in the film, the company was getting the life insurance paid to them and not the relatives. I'm not big in knowledge on the law, but that one is messed up.

Or was that just Moore attempting to grab the audience?

That sounds highly suspect and likely illegal. Though it may depend on the company, the person, and the job. I don't know much about the legal code on that kind of thing.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I wouldn't trust anything Michael Moore says. Pretty much for the reasons people have already stated.

Do admit its mostly for shock value, but some of the stuff he lets you know is pretty messed up.

Do companies really take out life insurance on their own employees?

Well, I know I have life insurance through my job, but I think that's for my own benefit. It pays a certain amount to whomever I declare. Been a long time since I looked at the policy. I'm not sure if it's only applicable if I die at work or not. Then again, I have my own life insurance anyway.

Do admit its mostly for shock value, but some of the stuff he lets you know is pretty messed up.

Do companies really take out life insurance on their own employees?

Companies certainly have life insurance for very valuable employees. If a CFO or Actuary dies, the business could be significantly hampered for a lengthy period of time. I've heard of "important employee" life insurance up to 1.5 million. I don't see what's wrong with that.

I understand the need for life insurance in certain jobs, getting the money paid out to your family/a charity or beneficiary is above board and all well and good. But in the film, the company was getting the life insurance paid to them and not the relatives. I'm not big in knowledge on the law, but that one is messed up.

Or was that just Moore attempting to grab the audience?

From my understanding, the policy is paid for by the corperation, not by the person who has insurence taken out on them.

I can see why some people might have a problem with that (It sounds very creepy, to be honest), but it doesn't bother me.

And, from what I understand, it's legal and regulated by the government on what they can and cannot insure.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

But in the film, the company was getting the life insurance paid to them and not the relatives. I'm not big in knowledge on the law, but that one is messed up.

Or was that just Moore attempting to grab the audience?

Half truths, spin and going for shock.

From wikipedia:

"The Association of Advanced Life Underwriting issued a statement that Moore "mischaracterized" corporate owned life insurance, stating that the issues were addressed by Congress in the 1990s and again in 2006. The AALU further states that corporate-owned life insurance (COLI) is only taken out on highly compensated employees, and only with their knowledge and consent, that COLI finances employee benefits and protects jobs and that employees pay nothing for COLI, but receive substantial benefits"

Wikipedia cites: http://www.aalu.org/custom/headlines/headlinedetails.cfm?id=426

 

[Dr_Horrible]

As has been said, Michael Moore is a hack, who falsifies and misleads in order to convince people to agree with him.

That said, he can go die in a fire.

 

[Hollock]

I left and thought it was kinda funny. Because in the end he was showing clips of towns that are trying to make things better, and it showed the outside of the movie theater.

 

[lettucethesallad]

I watched about the first 20 minutes of it. People were upset because they were being evicted because they _weren't paying rent_. The disgust it left me with made me unable to continue watching.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

I kind of felt like Moore was exposing a lot of problems but without providing any answers. Also the sucking up towards Obama near the end was rather nauseating. His work is increadibly bias, though I always find his arguments interesting. Really though you have to take this kind of thing at face value.

 

[DustyDrB]

I Michael Moore is more likely to rally people against his cause rather than for it. I've never met anyone who actually likes the guy, be they a liberal, conservative, or anywhere else on the spectrum.

 

[surg3n]

Do admit its mostly for shock value, but some of the stuff he lets you know is pretty messed up.

Do companies really take out life insurance on their own employees?

Some do, but the only ones I've come across do it to protect their employees. For instance, if you work for the government in the UK, and you die, then your family get X times your annual salary. That's not affected by an individuals insurance etc, there's nothing nefarious about that.
Most pension schemes will pay out upon death as well, and big companies, governments tend to work more closely with pension providers, to give these sorts of benefits. It's what makes it worthwhile to work for bigger companies, that sort of protection.

 

[Vault Girl]

Don't be so Dramatic. I'm a fan of Michael Moore's documentaries (Sicko being an absolute favourite) and the amount of times i've heard people who see it immediately go "THIS IS SO WRONG I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING WE HAVE TO STOP IT" afterwards is astonishing.

A critique of Moore's documentaries is his ability to fire up the audience, something that is both bad and good. It's good because it engages the audience and presents answers in a very clear linear way.

The bad thing is some people frenzy about it then do nothing, absolutely nothing, while still holding the opinion that we should ALL do something. It's like a temporary awe that soon fades when hype gives way to indifference.


Like I said, Sicko is one of my favourite documentary films, and i'm lucky to be in an observatory manner, being British and thankful for the NHS. It's not a perfect system, but we have it on an amazing moral level, and i have every faith in it. (Once David Cameron stops dicking about with it at least).

But in a weird way I am a fan of Extrinsic Moral Capitalism as opposed to the one we have now.

Make your own mind up and don't frenzy in a faux revolutionary kind of way, Moore just puts the evidence in front of you, and even then it can be called questionable. Make your own mind up.

 

[LuckyClover95]

A lot of hate on Moore but I quite like him. Simplifying things isn't necessarily bad. And I enjoyed bowling for Columbine, I thought it was a very revealing documentary.

 

[aei_haruko]

Watch the film and then come back to this thread...Done?OK WHY DO YOU LET THAT SHIT HAPPEN??I would start a killing spree,and why the hell didn't someone already??I am just wondering how do you feel now after watching the movie...Please do tell!

recaptcha:iPuble Edward.... what the hell?

because moore did the same thing about healthcare... both of my parents are doctors, essentially making tons of flaws... and having the nerve to call doctors greedy

 

[Generalissimo]

i'm gonna ignore it. he must be anti-capatilist

 

[marfin_]

It's because people get it into their plebeian heads that Socialism=Communism, Communism=Evil and Capitalism>Socialism, people don't want to mess with things

Yes your exactly right! Communism is the best form of government... on paper. In real life though it never really worked well for anybody not ruling the country.

The same can be said of Capitalism. The world elite get the majority of the money while the real people have to either live in poverty or sacrifice their ideals and work for corrupt corporations to make any headway.

Please get your information from someone else other than Michael Moore, go read a book about it. The difference between Capitalism and Socialism is that Capitalism provides great economic growth. In 1820 to 1998 the world economy grew 50-fold in capitalist regions like Europe and US. Capitalism also provides more freedom within our own economy and allows people to organize their own economy which provides a better environment for entrepreneurs. Socialism on the other had endorses a planned economy, which was similar to what the United States did during WW1 and 2 with war bonds... do you want to have an economy in which you always use war bonds? Other things like personal property would be viewed as means of production and would have no place in a Socialistic society. Don't kid yourself that there is a perfect system out there because there?s not. Even Capitalism has some major flaws, but its the best we have and we have been making it work since the 1800's at least. Just remember as long as humans have created it, it will always be flawed.

 

[Nimcha]

It's because people get it into their plebeian heads that Socialism=Communism, Communism=Evil and Capitalism>Socialism, people don't want to mess with things

Yes your exactly right! Communism is the best form of government... on paper.

Not even that. You can clearly see it will not work without having to put it into practice.

 

[marfin_]

I watched about the first 20 minutes of it. People were upset because they were being evicted because they _weren't paying rent_. The disgust it left me with made me unable to continue watching.

LOL. Yeah people should not have to pay rent that's too hard.

 

[Worgen]

Do admit its mostly for shock value, but some of the stuff he lets you know is pretty messed up.

Do companies really take out life insurance on their own employees?

oh yeah they do, my dad worked for the department of insurance down here and saw that alot, the idea was if you were a really valuable employee that the insurance policy would help cover the loss of the employee if they died or something but as with everything people discovered it was a bit more advantages to put a large insurance policy on the janitor and have him handle a few more dangerous chemicals, granted that didnt happen much but still, they dont even need to tell you they have a policy on you