I just watched Westworld and I wanna talk (spoilers)

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bartholen_v1legacy

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Let's start with some big words: this might be the best written show I've ever watched. Better than GoT's first 2-3 seasons, better than The Wire, better than Breaking Bad. In a way. And as mentioned, there will be spoilers, though I'll try to be vague. But ultimately what makes this show so fantastic can't be discussed without mentioning the specifics of the finale.

See, all the other shows I mentioned still are stronger in other areas in terms of writing: GoT serves as a brilliant deconstruction of the fantasy genre, and in subverting the viewer's expectations. The Wire has perhaps the most brilliant ensemble cast of excellent characters I've ever seen. And Breaking Bad is a fantastic character study in greed, ambition, power, and their cost. Not to mention the dialogue in every one of those shows is like a 7-meal course in a 5-star Michelin restaurant.

But when it comes to storytelling, or more specifically, how precisely the story was planned out and how complete it felt by the end, no other show has ever made such an impression on me as Westworld. And that is where we get into spoiler territory.

See, what I absolutely didn't expect going in was that this would turn out to be one of those "need to watch it at least twice" type of things. I'm more used to seeing that in movies, and when I've seen it on TV, the style's been more abstract and artistic, like Serial Experiments Lain. What added to that was that the show didn't make near as much of a splash as Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones, and as such there were fairly little hype and clickbait articles about it.

Which is why the twist about the Man in Black (or Ed Harris as I called him, because Ed Harris was Ed Harris-ing it up big time) came about, I was absolutely blown away. It felt like I'd been watching a 10-hour version of The Prestige with a payoff to match that length. Combined with the reveals about both Arnold and Wyatt suddenly everything clicked into place: all the recurring elements, the little hints, Ed Harris' seemingly simplistic motivations for his cruelty, the disorganized information about the park's past, the seeming inconsistencies about the characters' locations and especially Dolores. The way all the seemingly tangentially related plot threads were woven together into a single whole was nothing short of phenomenal. It was simply brilliant, and now I can't wait for season 2.

And that's the Maeve storyline. It was... how to put it mildly? FUCKING RETARDED! I forced myself to think that Felix and his partner were both hosts as well, and just part of Maeve's new narrative, because no fucking adult in the fucking cosmos fucking is this fucking stupid!!!

"Hey, this host just woke up for seemingly no reason", "Oh well, instead of getting security or tech guys in here or trying to restrain her ourselves, let's just keep talking to her. Oh hey, why don't we tell her that her existence is a fabrication. Let's show her around the lab shall we? Whatever, let's just give her full 10s in all her stats while we're at it. It's not like we're running a multi-billion dollar business that's exceedingly vulnerable and any anomalies like this should be extremely disconcerting. Now let's keep helping her after she tried to murder one of us and has recruited other hosts to gun down personnel by the dozens."

And nowhere are things like security, surveillance, double checks, tracking devices or anything like that to be seen.

It is beyond baffling that in a show otherwise so exquisitely written could such ham-handedness have slipped past. It has to be deliberate. Has. To. Be.

In other things not related to the spoilers, I'd seen a lot of talk about how HBO's supposedly planned this to be their next big hit show, but frankly I don't see it. Game of Thrones is still fairly easy for the "average" TV watcher to get into because it's got simple concepts on the surface: castles, swords, knights, oh lookie hey, lotsa titties! Westworld from the outset is operating on more cerebral concepts. The premise alone can be a bit hard to get into, let alone buy in the first place. GoT is fantasy, and as such a greater suspension of disbelief is in use before even watching it. Westworld is supposed to take place in our world. GoT has more, let's call it "low-brow" content, to keep the more casual viewer's interest: blood, sword fights, sex, titties, Tyrion making funny jokes. Westworld has characters grappling with issues like dead children, trouble in the workplace, questions about humanity and ethics instead. Sure there's some boobs and blood thrown in there, but in much lesser quantities than GoT.

Anyway, there's my initial thoughts on the show. Comments?
 

Ogoid

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bartholen said:
Let's start with some big words: this might be the best written show I've ever watched. Better than GoT's first 2-3 seasons, better than The Wire, better than Breaking Bad.
*Raises a finger while inhaling deeply*


In a way.
...

*tentatively puts finger down and slowly exhales*


huge snip
Yeah, I mostly agree. I didn't like it quite that much, but it was a pretty good show.
 

Trunkage

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The Ed Harris thing was a surprise? Or that *** was an android? Or the difference between timelines was actually greater then they were pretending? I was telling my partner what would happen from the third episode about these points. They were pretending to be tricky and just making a convoluted mess.

One thing that I predict as well was that most of the workers on the park are actually androids. Meave's storyline is terrible but if you look at it like this, those two nut jobs were just androids and couldn't think for themselves... It's the best I can do. Its really bad.

I think Maeve's storyline had one good point. When she was drinking and she didn't need to. That was a surprise I didn't see right in front of my face.

Mr Robot has a similar problem. It tells you its trick from the start and is too heavy handed. Maeve drinking is an example of a light touch
 

Saelune

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Ogoid said:
bartholen said:
Let's start with some big words: this might be the best written show I've ever watched. Better than GoT's first 2-3 seasons, better than The Wire, better than Breaking Bad.
*Raises a finger while inhaling deeply*


In a way.
...

*tentatively puts finger down and slowly exhales*


huge snip
Yeah, I mostly agree. I didn't like it quite that much, but it was a pretty good show.
 

TilMorrow

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Jul 7, 2010
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Frankly found it boring tbh and stopped watching after the third episode and this was after I had decided to rewatch them again one after the other to see if there was anything that stood out that would make me want to watch the whole season. I was really hyped up to watch it too especially after I watched the old hammy Movie it's based on and I thought if they could take this and make it better then great. But as you can tell I was disappointed.
 

MHR

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I got maybe 6 or 7 episodes in and I can't stand the show. Anyone can tell the robots are getting sentient and there's gonna be big bad consequences for screwin' with them. But they drag out that "mystery" concept to the point where it starts to wear.

And that's not the only reason the premise is absurd. At first I thought the entire world was a fake computer generation, you know, it being the future and all. That would really have made a lot more sense. But they're really just making state-of-the-art androids just to shoot them up. What a ridiculous waste of resources! You invent, create, and plug in the most advanced AI ever into a robot, and the best you can come up with for that is to let rich guys fuck and shoot them? It's a borderline juvenile concept.
 

maninahat

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As to the former, yes it is a good plot twist, or it would have been if it hadn't been ruined for me about two episodes in because I read some smart alec's fan theory on a discussion thread somewhere. The whole show afterwards became a matter of watching that theory slowly prove true. There are a couple of plot holes created by it, in hindsight, but it works.

As for Maeve's situation, yes it is fairly ridiculous how long the idiots let Maeve carry on for. It tried to excuse it by making the first one very sympathetic to the robots whilst mistaking the whole thing for his ticket to a promotion, and the second one a straight up dumbass who was too scared to act when he needed to. It doesn't quite succeed at that, especially when you realise they could have set her intelligence/rebelliousness/strength super low and solved the problem instantly.
 

Pappatulagga

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I can understand the reason for disliking the mystery stuff getting a bit annoying, and definitely the Maeve situation. Maybe the two guys working on her were also programmed robots? Anything is possible, since their creator wanted them to break free anyway. One thing to really like about the program though is the music! Ramin Djawadi is a great composer, and his music truly boosts the show for me. I even like a lot of the covers you can find on youtube regarding the show's theme song. This is one I found that I thought was particularly good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqAUd88BH0
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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MHR said:
And that's not the only reason the premise is absurd. At first I thought the entire world was a fake computer generation, you know, it being the future and all. That would really have made a lot more sense. But they're really just making state-of-the-art androids just to shoot them up. What a ridiculous waste of resources! You invent, create, and plug in the most advanced AI ever into a robot, and the best you can come up with for that is to let rich guys fuck and shoot them? It's a borderline juvenile concept.
I am not saying that I entirely disagree with you, but this is actually lampshaded in the show and is one of the major plots among the park operators. The corporation sees lots of use for advanced androids, which is why they've invested heavily in the park, but Arnold keeps resisting any attempts to use his inventions in ways he doesn't want. The main plot there is about how they are trying to outmaneuver Arnold so they can take control, shut down the park and finally use all this awesome tech for something that makes serious money instead.
 

Casual Shinji

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The intro to episode one is fucking genius, especially for those who have seen the movie. We assume Teddy is a guest due to how he's introduced, riding the train, interacting with the hosts and Dolores like that's the storyline he likes to follow. And Ed Harris as the Man in Black bears a striking resemblance to Yul Brynner's Gunslinger, making the confronation between him and Teddy reminiscent of the scene in the movie where Brynner's character goes nuts and starts hunting down the protagonist.

It did feel like the show was throwing out twists just for the sake of it though. Most notably Bernard/Arnold. So the twist of him being a host was great, but what was the point of him being a copy of Arnold? I mean, he's been dead for a while, but it wasn't that long ago -- Someone could've easily recognized Bernard looking exactly like one of the original co-founders. Ford even had a picture of him in his office. What was the point of that, other than to make it a twist?

Still one of the best shows I've seen in a while though. The acting was spectacular. Evan Rachel Wood killed it as Dolores, and Louis Herthum in Episode 1 deserved an freaking Oscar.
MHR said:
And that's not the only reason the premise is absurd. At first I thought the entire world was a fake computer generation, you know, it being the future and all. That would really have made a lot more sense. But they're really just making state-of-the-art androids just to shoot them up. What a ridiculous waste of resources! You invent, create, and plug in the most advanced AI ever into a robot, and the best you can come up with for that is to let rich guys fuck and shoot them? It's a borderline juvenile concept.
Well, we don't really know what the world outside is like, so it's difficult to gauge what constitutes wasting resources in this universe. And the series itself kinda makes it clear that this whole endeavour is probably not run by the state, but by some collection of super eccentric rich people.