I left my girlfriend so I would never have to play another JRPG...

[Chaotic Neutral]

I will now count how many times you've failed in convincing me.

[OP HAS AN ART DEGREE!!!]

8 times. I will now proceed to substitute the words "Art Degree" with "Explosive Diahoreea" for the sake of getting at least some entertainment out of this complete waste of time.

hehehe
I just tried that, I almost had an Art Degree from laughing so much XD

Thats makes two of us...... that was great.... helped me turn around a mediocre day. Thank ye kindly, good sir.

Here's a riddle for you! How is an art degree like explosive diarrhea?

...An actual artist doesn't need either!

I wasn't going to feed the totally obvious troll, but out of concern for the members of this board who don't know anything about actual psychology, I will say that responding to anything with "Carl Jung said[...]" results in the psychology equivalent of a Gannon Ban.* Same for Freud. Neither was a scientist, as they didn't do experiments, and their case studies reeked of their personal biases. They're historically important, as they drummed up a lot of interest in the field, but actually citing either of them is like saying Ptolemy's theories are still viable in a serious astronomy discussion.

Also, FFVII was good up until it left Midgar, at which point it abandoned any pretense of originality it had possessed in favor of a generic "stop this super-powered bishonnen!" plot. Was it enjoyable? Sure. Artistic masterpiece? Not so much. I've already discussed why Aeris's death really wasn't the genre-defining tragic moment people make it out to be in a previous thread. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.161956?page=7#4145938]

Also, the Persona series. That's pretty much all I need to say on that subject.





*I'm working on a good name for this. Oedibanned might work since a lot of ignorant people think the Oedipus complex is an actual problem instead of something Freud pulled out of his ass, but do the unfortunate mental images of someone banned from a forum for talking about banging his mom outweigh the snappiness of the name? I could use some feedback on this important and serious issue.

 

[zf6hellion]

OK I started reading this and effectively stopped after you said "I have an art degree" and your point being? maybe if you show me proof that you have one, no wait let me know when you get degrees in Video Game Development and prove that - maybe then I'll care about what you say.

Now above about that explosive diarrhoea - was really funny, so as a final note I hope you get better man explosive watery crap must be really disgusting in the loo...

 

[TPiddy]

Dragon Age is by no means a JRPG just thought i would let you know. It is about as WRPG as you can get in fact.
And JRPGs are those mostly made in Japan and have artwork similar to Japanese art (Manga and other such styles) and filled with aspects of Japanese culture (ridiculously dressed and ambiguously male/female characters) Turn-based is also a good indicator, although it is not strictly JRPG territory

Yeah, but saying that a JRPG is based on the characters in it is like saying all platformers have Italian Plumbers in them.... JRPG, to me, is not defined by characters, more so by controls or art style. Besides, the core difference between most JRPG's and WRPG's is the turn-based combat...

 

[mega48man]

all i got out of that was you're a drag queen who wears a corset...... wtf.......the drag queen bit explained why you think anyone would read the great wall of text you've constructed.

i used used to be into anime when i was a kid, but that was a phase, i'm older now and i can clearly see why it's gay. namely b/c the only people at school that are into anime have no friends, but also that it's just gay. JRPGs have anime influence, why? because it's from japan, duh. thus, i think they're a bit exclusive to gamers who are into that sort of thing.

Oh how I pity you for your pre-conceptions about anime fans.

i know, i pity myself to. if only the few kids at school that were openly into anime (thus essentially representing the anime genre all together for the public student body to make judgement upon) weren't a really loud fat girl who comes to school thinking it's halloween every-fucking-day (she's worn the WEIRDEST things, there's not even a trend or pattern! it's random creepy stuff! i could give you a list if you want, dead serious, ask away) two ugly looking acne infested guys that never talk to anyone but each other, a girl who i thought was a boy on the first day of school b/c she looked JUST like a nerdy little white boy, a short ugly black girl who wears the same damn smelly clothing everyday and acts totally retarded even though she doesn't have a medical history, and this one asian kid who's just plain weird (and i feel like an asshole b/c i've been told he's slightly autistic, but not everyone knows that, so i have to think on the same mindset of the majority to avoid being looked down upon b/c of my opinion towards an individual). all of these kids draw tons of anime and give to the teachers that are nice to them, and by nice, i mean make open conversation out of pity b/c of their lack of socialization.

right when i saw these group of kids, or 'clique', my inner asshole (who rarely comes out) emerged and has taken a bit of control over my social choices ever since, and thank GOD it did. if it didn't, i'd have no friends, and luckily, i've become friends with many of the cool kids.
in high school, who you are associated with is the most crucial thing you have to monitor. if kids at school see you talking to a certain group of kids like the jocks, that's just you talking. but if kids repeatedly see you hanging around jocks and even acting like friends, they will assume you are one of the jocks and give you more respect. the same goes for if they see around the lonely nerds, except they will respect you less to the point were you get picked on. i used to get picked on in middle school a lot, everyday almost. then i went to a different high school than everyone else freshman year, it was a fresh start. by doing that, i picked up SOOOO many social skills, it's unbelievable. when i went back to the home school where everyone else was, most of them remembered me (the other half was from a different middle school and out of the district) but i was a totally new person... i have never been picked on once since i started sophmore year at the home school b/c of my new social skills and my choice of friends.

high school is way tougher than you think, you'll learn that junior year, hopefully in late freshman year, that's the best time.

i just noticed how much i typed, jesus christ. i only meant to write a small paragraph! i'm sorry! i guess i got carried away

 

[Arisato-kun]

all i got out of that was you're a drag queen who wears a corset...... wtf.......the drag queen bit explained why you think anyone would read the great wall of text you've constructed.

i used used to be into anime when i was a kid, but that was a phase, i'm older now and i can clearly see why it's gay. namely b/c the only people at school that are into anime have no friends, but also that it's just gay. JRPGs have anime influence, why? because it's from japan, duh. thus, i think they're a bit exclusive to gamers who are into that sort of thing.

Oh how I pity you for your pre-conceptions about anime fans.

i know, i pity myself to. if only the few kids at school that were openly into anime (thus essentially representing the anime genre all together for the public student body to make judgement upon) weren't a really loud fat girl who comes to school thinking it's halloween every-fucking-day (she's worn the WEIRDEST things, there's not even a trend or pattern! it's random creepy stuff! i could give you a list if you want, dead serious, ask away) two ugly looking acne infested guys that never talk to anyone but each other, a girl who i thought was a boy on the first day of school b/c she looked JUST like a nerdy little white boy, a short ugly black girl who wears the same damn smelly clothing everyday and acts totally retarded even though she doesn't have a medical history, and this one asian kid who's just plain weird (and i feel like an asshole b/c i've been told he's slightly autistic, but not everyone knows that, so i have to think on the same mindset of the majority to avoid being looked down upon b/c of my opinion towards an individual). all of these kids draw tons of anime and give to the teachers that are nice to them, and by nice, i mean make open conversation out of pity b/c of their lack of socialization.

right when i saw these group of kids, or 'clique', my inner asshole (who rarely comes out) emerged and has taken a bit of control over my social choices ever since, and thank GOD it did. if it didn't, i'd have no friends, and luckily, i've become friends with many of the cool kids.
in high school, who you are associated with is the most crucial thing you have to monitor. if kids at school see you talking to a certain group of kids like the jocks, that's just you talking. but if kids repeatedly see you hanging around jocks and even acting like friends, they will assume you are one of the jocks and give you more respect. the same goes for if they see around the lonely nerds, except they will respect you less to the point were you get picked on. i used to get picked on in middle school a lot, everyday almost. then i went to a different high school than everyone else freshman year, it was a fresh start. by doing that, i picked up SOOOO many social skills, it's unbelievable. when i went back to the home school where everyone else was, most of them remembered me (the other half was from a different middle school and out of the district) but i was a totally new person... i have never been picked on once since i started sophmore year at the home school b/c of my new social skills and my choice of friends.

high school is way tougher than you think, you'll learn that junior year, hopefully in late freshman year, that's the best time.

i just noticed how much i typed, jesus christ. i only meant to write a small paragraph! i'm sorry! i guess i got carried away

I'm a college freshman. I managed to get along with everybody regardless of the fact that I like anime and listen to an absurd amount of Japanese rock. I had friends that were jocks, friends that you would call nerds and *gasp* friends that were women! Not everyone lets their hobby go to their head and forgets to do basic things like bathing. In fact, the vast majority of fellow anime fans I've met are nothing like any of the people you've mentioned. They're just normal people that enjoy a good piece of animation.

So please, just because you've seen a group of people that are like that don't bunch the vast majority of normal people that are anime fans with em. God knows we don't need people like that as our poster children if anime is to become a more accepted medium in America.

Oh and FYI, in college the vast majority doesn't care what you're into and accept you because they've grown up by now. So ditch your ridiculous notion of cliques before you go there.

 

[mega48man]

all i got out of that was you're a drag queen who wears a corset...... wtf.......the drag queen bit explained why you think anyone would read the great wall of text you've constructed.

i used used to be into anime when i was a kid, but that was a phase, i'm older now and i can clearly see why it's gay. namely b/c the only people at school that are into anime have no friends, but also that it's just gay. JRPGs have anime influence, why? because it's from japan, duh. thus, i think they're a bit exclusive to gamers who are into that sort of thing.

Oh how I pity you for your pre-conceptions about anime fans.

i know, i pity myself to. if only the few kids at school that were openly into anime (thus essentially representing the anime genre all together for the public student body to make judgement upon) weren't a really loud fat girl who comes to school thinking it's halloween every-fucking-day (she's worn the WEIRDEST things, there's not even a trend or pattern! it's random creepy stuff! i could give you a list if you want, dead serious, ask away) two ugly looking acne infested guys that never talk to anyone but each other, a girl who i thought was a boy on the first day of school b/c she looked JUST like a nerdy little white boy, a short ugly black girl who wears the same damn smelly clothing everyday and acts totally retarded even though she doesn't have a medical history, and this one asian kid who's just plain weird (and i feel like an asshole b/c i've been told he's slightly autistic, but not everyone knows that, so i have to think on the same mindset of the majority to avoid being looked down upon b/c of my opinion towards an individual). all of these kids draw tons of anime and give to the teachers that are nice to them, and by nice, i mean make open conversation out of pity b/c of their lack of socialization.

right when i saw these group of kids, or 'clique', my inner asshole (who rarely comes out) emerged and has taken a bit of control over my social choices ever since, and thank GOD it did. if it didn't, i'd have no friends, and luckily, i've become friends with many of the cool kids.
in high school, who you are associated with is the most crucial thing you have to monitor. if kids at school see you talking to a certain group of kids like the jocks, that's just you talking. but if kids repeatedly see you hanging around jocks and even acting like friends, they will assume you are one of the jocks and give you more respect. the same goes for if they see around the lonely nerds, except they will respect you less to the point were you get picked on. i used to get picked on in middle school a lot, everyday almost. then i went to a different high school than everyone else freshman year, it was a fresh start. by doing that, i picked up SOOOO many social skills, it's unbelievable. when i went back to the home school where everyone else was, most of them remembered me (the other half was from a different middle school and out of the district) but i was a totally new person... i have never been picked on once since i started sophmore year at the home school b/c of my new social skills and my choice of friends.

high school is way tougher than you think, you'll learn that junior year, hopefully in late freshman year, that's the best time.

i just noticed how much i typed, jesus christ. i only meant to write a small paragraph! i'm sorry! i guess i got carried away

I'm a college freshman. I managed to get along with everybody regardless of the fact that I like anime and listen to an absurd amount of Japanese rock. I had friends that were jocks, friends that you would call nerds and *gasp* friends that were women! Not everyone lets their hobby go to their head and forgets to do basic things like bathing. In fact, the vast majority of fellow anime fans I've met are nothing like any of the people you've mentioned. They're just normal people that enjoy a good piece of animation.

So please, just because you've seen a group of people that are like that don't bunch the vast majority of normal people that are anime fans with em. God knows we don't need people like that as our poster children if anime is to become a more accepted medium in America.

Oh and FYI, in college the vast majority doesn't care what you're into and accept you because they've grown up by now. So ditch your ridiculous notion of cliques before you go there.

(i'm shocked at how fast you replied, get off the computer and get back to studying)
japanese rock? wtf? that's blasphmey, heavy metal ftw.

i see you had a wide group of friends, but i doubt you were one of those kids who were overly obsessed over anime. there probably isn't such a great divide amogst the cliques at your high school than there are at mine. here, you either have friends or you're known for watching anime. that's how my society has labeled it. my old high school, the one i went to freshmen year, there wasn't a great divide in cliques, so it wasn't as socially inclined as the home high school.

to tell the truth, i used to be into anime freshmen year, but slowly lost interest towards the end of the year after xmas (when i got m first GH game GH3, that changed my life forever, love that game) when i went back to the home high school, i knew i had to sever all ties with anime or else i'd get picked on again. that idea worked and i've never been the same. instead of anime being my hobbie, i quickly got into rock and heavy metal. it kind of stepped in and replaced anime right when i dropped it.

you're lucky that the people in your area are normal, we don't get that here. if you don't conform to society, you're labeled, and that's the worst thing that can happen b/c that label is not gonna come off even if hell freezes over.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

This has nothing to do with the subject but neither do the above posts. I once wore a Darth Vader helmet to school and nobody said ANYTHING.

 

[Klarinette]

It's exploration, not exposition you assholes.

hehe.

Still, dumping gamer girl was dumb.

Dumping gamer girl wasn't dumb; she was cheating and did drugs. I'da left her, too.

How very dull of you.
Sex and drugs and rock&roll! Girlfriend sleeps with other guys means boyfriend can sleep with other girls too.

Sorry for being lame, but I kinda like monogamy. *shrug*

 

[Hypocratic Oath]

There is no such thing "objectively bad art." Art is by definition subjective.

I really never understood why people make threads like this. Trying to empirically prove that a game or a genre is bad. It's completely pointless because when it comes to the quality of art, there is no right or wrong. It's all opinion.

I also enjoy how, throughout you're entire article, you talk about how bad JRPG's are, and yet you only use two examples of bad JRPG's. One of which you admit to only playing one hour of.

I never liked this argument because it's a slippery slope and a strawman, quality of art should at least have a loose checklist of what is good or not, when we preach 'it's all art, there's no right or wrong, it's all OKAY!' we get a pile of crap from those who can't take criticism in the name of tolerance. That's why i like food art, if it tastes or looks bad, there's no excuse because nearly everyone will dislike it too, try to fix problem areas.

 

[Arisato-kun]

(i'm shocked at how fast you replied, get off the computer and get back to studying)
japanese rock? wtf? that's blasphmey, heavy metal ftw.

i see you had a wide group of friends, but i doubt you were one of those kids who were overly obsessed over anime. there probably isn't such a great divide amogst the cliques at your high school than there are at mine. here, you either have friends or you're known for watching anime. that's how my society has labeled it. my old high school, the one i went to freshmen year, there wasn't a great divide in cliques, so it wasn't as socially inclined as the home high school.

to tell the truth, i used to be into anime freshmen year, but slowly lost interest towards the end of the year after xmas (when i got m first GH game GH3, that changed my life forever, love that game) when i went back to the home high school, i knew i had to sever all ties with anime or else i'd get picked on again. that idea worked and i've never been the same. instead of anime being my hobbie, i quickly got into rock and heavy metal. it kind of stepped in and replaced anime right when i dropped it.

you're lucky that the people in your area are normal, we don't get that here. if you don't conform to society, you're labeled, and that's the worst thing that can happen b/c that label is not gonna come off even if hell freezes over.[/quote]

Are you aware of holiday break? Yeah I'm in the middle of that.

Oh and J-Rock is fantastic. Metal's kinda meh. At least J-Rock has some variation. I can show anyone J-Metal band Maximum the Hormone and they'll think they're from America since you can't tell what anyone's saying in metal anyways. Not saying that metal's bad, just kinda samesy. Except for Daisuke Ishiwatari, all metal guitar tracks composed by him are fantastic.

At any rate, I'm de-railing the thread even though it's kinda dead. I'm sorry the people at your high school are intolerant assholes. Maybe you'll have better luck in college and actually be able to say you liked anime once without being judged.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Insane wall of text + "Just kidding" topic title for attention = Not worth my time.

I'm sure you have some interesting points in there for why jRPGs aren't the interesting games they used to be, and obviously not everyone agrees with my opening statement or there wouldn't be 10 pages worth chatter, but ultimately your entire argument is defeated by one very simple fact.

jRPGs sell millions. Sorry that you wasted all that time on a series of points that are completely defeated by this one fact. :/

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

Finally, a good reviewer. But seriously, what did I expect, he had an art degree.
But that reference to the Edo period was hilarious.

 

[boholikeu]

Yes that may be true and yes I know some Japanse gamers are like that but because some are it turns into a social disease and becomes what you have quoted. Which as it's said in the post there is a will to change and what for it by devs and I'm sure some gamers but it's like Blizzard wanting to change and a few players would welcome it but the other several million defend the way it is. Even Wada wants to move on and change things and shake it up a bit by letting devs outside of Japan make FF games. I do see where you are coming from the will is there to do it and there is a want to have it by some people but the people who want it aren't plentyful and hungry enough.

Well Capcom and Square have expressed interest in moving things forward, but aside from that most companies seem content to cater to the Akihabara gamer crowd (IE the ones that are happy to eat up the same games over and over). Once again, if you don't want to take my word for it there have been plenty of quotes over the last year from Wada and a few other devs essentially saying the same thing.

Also is it not fair to say a fair few of Western people rather WRPGs because of the style? It is and stories are very similar this isn't just a problem with JRPG games. I think all games need some more original or new storys or plot devices as a lot of things are stagnating.

This actually touches on my big problem with JRPGs. Yes, the stories in WRPGs are fairly similar, but if you look at the way they are told there has been a fair amount of progress. Story is integrated into gameplay, whereas in JRPGs it is still largely separate.

Is not fair to say the same about the Halo series and CoD series at this point in the West as FPS are starting to go the way with the JRPG story which I do agree with what you say on that matter. Now I know the guy mentions Halo advancing but it hasn't really advanced a lot since day 1 in fact I belive Halo and Gears use backwards mechanics that continue into online play such as weapon pick ups which is fine for single player but doesn't work in multiplayer unless it is L4Desque as in co op campaigns.

Actually weapon pick ups work fine in multiplayer depending on how you are trying to frame the gameplay. It can create hotspots that need to be guarded/attacked.

Multiplayer has been evolving too. CoD popularized "leveling up" through multiplayer, and the Halo series brought fps gaming to the consoles, and later it brought simple map editing/modding to the masses with Forge. Also, don't forget the recent trend in Co-op play that L4D brought us.

What's more, I think that FPS games have really come to the forefront of storytelling recently. True, their stories aren't nearly as complex as RPG stories, but once again if you look at how they tell the story there has been a LOT of advancement.

On the topic of Western Games. WRPGs especially Bioware and Bethesda ones have stagnated horribly of late. Oblivion was basically the same as Morrowind with less content!!! I liked Oblivion and it did bring some new things to the table but it cut out Medium Armor, Spears and all the variety of the weapons in Marksmanship skill. I have to call it on that. See even though they have stagnated a bit it is a formula that works for them which persoannly I think everyone has slipped into a comfort zone.

What you call less content I call a more focused experience. One of the biggest improvements in Fallout 3 over Morrowind and Oblivion is that they found a way to make an open-ended game that still has the same themes/tone no matter how you decide to play it. That's a pretty amazing achievement in interactive storytelling if you ask me.

In the end I agree with you that there's some elements of stagnation in every genre, but overall JRPGs just seem to be the worst offenders. This is especially true when you look at advancements in storytelling techniques, as the once great JRPGs have contributed very little since the glory days of the PS1. These days I see more FPS games pushing the boundaries of what stories can be achieved through gameplay whereas JRPGs keep falling back on non-interaction sequences to get their point across.

 

[Fappy]

This guy again? :/

 

[rex922]

Your "Art Degree" does not make your opinion more valid just like how i study the programming,design and art creation in games makes mine more valid.

A lot of people picking on this.

I consider myself quite slow and even I got that he was being sarcastic.

Well often sarcasm comes more from tone of voice and because this is a forum he is a voiceless being and therefore more difficult to detect any sarcasm.

Do not worry i consider myself even slower most of the time

 

[Fappy]

Your "Art Degree" does not make your opinion more valid just like how i study the programming,design and art creation in games makes mine more valid.

A lot of people picking on this.

I consider myself quite slow and even I got that he was being sarcastic.

Well often sarcasm comes more from tone of voice and because this is a forum he is a voiceless being and therefore more difficult to detect any sarcasm.

Do not worry i consider myself even slower most of the time

A good writer has a solid and evident voice. Too bad he's an art major.

 

[Eventidal]

You bring up valid points, but I can't get over how nonsensical your rant is. The whole "I have an art degree and while that doesn't make my opinion any better... my hair is an octopus, your argument is invalid, and I just AM better" thing got on my nerves, and you act so high and mighty about YOUR opinion.
There are people like me who enjoy a game like Etrian Odyssey. A game built upon dungeon exploration in its most simplistic and evil form. Super hard, full of random encounters, and "stat spreadsheets" galore. But at the same time I have never beaten a Final Fantasy. It really depends on what mood I'm in for a game, since I've played MMORPGs and grinded for near double-digit hours daily for months but also mastered the Halo series solo on Legendary difficulty. I've spent many hundreds of hours on various puzzle games, most notably Meteos and Puzzle League games, and I've conquered most foes I've faced down in Super Smash Bros Melee and Brawl.
Old-school and new-school. Popular or completely overlooked. Easy as pie or the hardest thing you've ever played. Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft and more. I've played and enjoyed a vast selection of games, and while I feel that JRPGs have a few flaws, my experience with them is this:
Making fun of the cliches is overhyped and overinflated. I've had a blast playing many JRPGs, and others bored me to death. Whereas I believe games like FFVII are overhyped and people's enjoyment of them is largely due to nostalgia and a belief that the fact that their being good "for their time" means something today, I also believe that people's complaints about things like randomly walking into people's houses and starting conversations and cliched storylines and characters are overhyped, too. They're not as big a problem as people make them out to be. SURE, it's cliche that your main guy wields a sword. If you ask me, it's also cliche that he's a human. (or something close to it) It's cliche that he's on the good side. It's cliche that you'll root for him no matter what endeavor he takes on. It's cliche that he wins in the end.
Not that I believe that those things can't make for a good and very interesting game... I just don't think it's that big of a deal that they exist within the game. Especially when it comes to systems like HP... why fix something that really isn't broken? Even if a JRPG were to go the modern FPS route and make it so that standing there and catching your breath was enough to heal your wounds in about five seconds, would it then still be an RPG?

I don't think it's a bad idea at all. In fact, I'd like to see a developer try something like the above. Perhaps it would work? Who knows until someone tries? But still, it would seem that most games out there use systems like HP, and you know, it just happens to be a good way of conveying "HEY YOU'RE DYING" to the gamer, you know?


Um, yeah, so I probably went a bit off my original focus there, but my point remains. I don't think that those cliches are all that cliche or bad, and really, YOU may not enjoy them, but obviously taking from my own experiences here, some people DO.
Otherwise, explain Korea and their MMORPGs to me.


Edit: I didn't mean to post such a long response but the topic starter got me going and I can't stop once I get moving. What I can't really tell though, is if he's being serious or not. The whole "art major" and Odin and the Aesir (was that an Odin Sphere reference, or I'm just missing some mythology knowledge here? Either way, awesome.) got me wondering about it, but if this were just a trolling rant, why spend so much time and effort on it? I'm always all for a nice, open discussion on JRPGs, but I don't see the original topic post as being one smart and well written enough to gather much more than argument and flames, rather than constructive dialogue.
Though when it all boils down to it, we're the gamers, not the game makers, so this doesn't make much of a difference in the end.

 

[Cryo84R]

OP should know that the japanese do not refuse to change or advance.
as I recall, they're one of the leading nations in robotics.
holding on to traditions and 'not advancing' are not the same thing.

Maybe for consumer electronics. The US definatly has the edge on robots that actually kill shit though.

 

[Dramatic Flare]

I found your original post a mix of somethings to avoid and somethings to think about. Simply put, do not wave your degrees around online no matter how much more valid they make your opinion. One doesn't begin an argument by stating, "I'm an expert, therefore my opinion is more important than yours," because it will inevitably turn most of your listeners against you.

Next up:
JRPG's Are An Outdated Method of Storytelling...
Which I might have agreed with, had you then not gone to point out a series of game play flaws that have absolutely nothing to do with story telling. Now I will admit, JRPG game play does have a tendency to pull one out of the immersion of the game, especially more recent games. However until recently even Western RPGS have had this problem. The Dialog tree is a still often used form of information gathering, and dispersing, that is frankly annoying and outdated too. Bioware has done a good job of dropping this, but some games just can't seem to avoid it.
And also, there's a reason some of the older JRPGs are still awesome when the new ones aren't. I feel there is a sense of rawness to the game, where they hadn't gotten everything down quite right yet. The new games have such a polished shine when it comes to monsters, drops, equipment, and everything else, and a frankly dizzying number of choices to them that they actually stop being interesting. ooh! Red slimes! That means fire weapons!
And then I go back and play FF4 advance, which still has goblins and ogres, and I find myself enjoying the combat more. It's the same combat as before, but the sense that not everything is perfectly modeled in this world is refreshing. There was more creativity in the game, because there's simply more in the game.
Oh sure, there's only six or seven monsters in an area just like in the newer FF games, but some of them are just random or amusing to play against in this one, and when I played FF10 there was nothing all that special except for one or two boss fights.

Problem Two: The plots are flat, and formulaic, the characters are generic and unlovable, the story progresses like your morbidly obese mother without her Power Chair.

Imma go ahead and go on record here saying that Final Fantasy VII had the greatest opening to any RPG ever, and if you disagree with me you should give up civilization and flee into wilderness like the idiotic savage you are, living off of squirrels and the occasional camper because obviously you are unprepared for artistic complexities of Modern Civilization and you should be kept away from art at all costs so as not to pollute it with your literal nega-taste. Final Fantasy VII is bar none the best example of how to pull off a story in a JRPG. I have an Art Degree. I know this.

Sure, except i found FFVII's plot Flat, Formulaic, and the characters generic too. In fact, out of the FFVII franchise, the only game I've enjoyed was Dirge of Cerberus. That storyline was interesting- a broken man facing the jetsam of his past as it bubbles up to try and kill him.

Also, I don't care about your unmitigated hate towards me now or your art degree still. Frankly, I think if that's what you think people who disagree with you should do, you should be forced to do it yourself.


Problem Three: It exploration, not exposition you assholes.

or how about both? There's room enough for both games in this world, and especially the ones that get both. Hell, Morrowind has a HUGE amount of exposition when you count all the books, dialogue trees, guilds you can become master of, journal entries... and this is one of your favorite games to reference in terms of exploration. Now to be fair, I loved the exploration too, raiding daedric shrines was just awesome. But your point seems rather invalid in light of these facts.

When I watched the opening to Final Fantasy XII, I spent my entire time asking myself what the fuck happened on two different levels. Firstly, how the fuck did the artistic man-gods who made FFVII turn into these assholes, and secondly, what the fuck was going on?

There were, for a while, two teams who made Final Fantasy games. They would literally alternate, so team A makes FFV and team B makes FFVI.
I don't think this is the case any more, however maybe it's just that in twenty years we've gone from an original core of story writers to FANS of the original story writers, who keep going back and stealing from previous FF games... a lot.

Ever notice how people can look at a painting and go "eh, not my thing?", but a huge group of people can come to a consensus on whether or not a story is good or bad, like the Star Wars Prequel? That's because as human beings storytelling is innate and universal. A bad story is a bad story. You can't just look at a real awful movie like Star Wars Episode I or whatever and go "well I can't make fun of this movie because art is subjective." It's just an objectively shitty movie for a number of easily discernible reasons [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&feature=related]. I have the same problem with most JRPGs.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you. Some people really like Star Wars Episode I, though I'm not one of them.
Also, some people like Twilight. I'm not one of them.
Also, some people like Harry Potter. I'm not one of them.
Unfortunately, story lines have never truly been innate and universal. This is why when you get to greek Myth, you find them divided into types, such as creation and war, and romance. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say different audiences demanded different stories, and many had preferences for which stories they'd enjoy.

I actually agree with your position, just none of your arguments.

 

[Manji187]

Plus there are only two types of characters with the emotional stability and time-tested leadership it takes to head a group and confront the challenges in JRPG stories.

1. The dark brooding quiet type with a mysterious past and a penchant for not responding to direct questions.

You'll know you're playing with this type of a hero when the character you're playing isn't blonde.

You're absolutely right...but aren't you forgetting one very popular protagonist who's a brooding type with a mysterious past AND super saiyan blond hair?