This was good for a couple of laughs, I especially enjoyed the art degree stuff, that was funny.
Anyway, I like em.
Anyway, I like em.
I left my girlfriend so I would never have to play another JRPG...
- Thread starter Unmitigated Hatred
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I skimmed through this quickly and I just got to the TL;DR opinion.
I do not care if you have an art degree or any sort of degree for that matter. They are not bad just because you say they are. I grant the fact I may have missed something because I only skimmed through and may have missed a bigger point and if I have done, I apologize but judging by the TL;DR part, I conclude, along with many others that you are trolling.
Now if you will excuse me, I shall bounce up and down on my bed in anticipation of Final Fantasy XIII.
Have a good day, sir/madam.
I do not care if you have an art degree or any sort of degree for that matter. They are not bad just because you say they are. I grant the fact I may have missed something because I only skimmed through and may have missed a bigger point and if I have done, I apologize but judging by the TL;DR part, I conclude, along with many others that you are trolling.
Now if you will excuse me, I shall bounce up and down on my bed in anticipation of Final Fantasy XIII.
Have a good day, sir/madam.
I take exception to this. See, most art is subjective. Storytelling is not one of those arts. See, a dude named Carl Jung talked about this thing called "The Collective Unconscious." Basically, he said that on some deep and intrinsic level, most people actually like the same things. Its the reason we have story archetypes that cross ethnic groups, languages, and nations.Pyode said:
Ever notice how people can look at a painting and go "eh, not my thing?", but a huge group of people can come to a consensus on whether or not a story is good or bad, like the Star Wars Prequel? That's because as human beings storytelling is innate and universal. A bad story is a bad story. You can't just look at a real awful movie like Star Wars Episode I or whatever and go "well I can't make fun of this movie because art is subjective." It's just an objectively shitty movie for a number of easily discernible reasons [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&feature=related]. I have the same problem with most JRPGs.
All I got from the Wall O' Text is that trolls are studying Art now...
What makes a JRPG a JRPG exactly? Is is turn-based combat? Ambiguous girly characters? What are their defining characterstics?
Dragon Age masterfully hid all of the dice-rolling and number crunching from you, except for the damage numbers that pop up. It does a great job of presenting 'live action' combat while still being largely turn based under the hood. It also tells a great story.
I will agree that JRPG's do need to continue to evolve. It started with Final Fantasy, being one of the first that allowed you to make choices, limited as they were. It evolved from the simple enemies on one side, your team on the other side, simple animations to illustrate what was going on, to more advanced systems like the attack animations seen in the later Final Fantasy games.
I suppose the problem is inherently in the game play, as stuff like Final Fantasy and Dragon Age stress asset management and strategy over actual skill with the controls. TES and Mass Effect were a good mix of both asset management and live-action skills. This is the direction that games will take in the future, ala Borderlands. It's the best of both worlds... the brilliant strategy and the twitch gaming skills.
Lost Odyssey is the best JRPG I've played since FFX... I think the problem is that there aren't that many... I can only think of Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Eternal Sonata (which is underrated, in my opinion) and Enchanted Arms for the 360. 4 legit JRPG's in the 5 years 360 has been out... with Enchanted Arms being the only one that borders on unplayable.
What makes a JRPG a JRPG exactly? Is is turn-based combat? Ambiguous girly characters? What are their defining characterstics?
Dragon Age masterfully hid all of the dice-rolling and number crunching from you, except for the damage numbers that pop up. It does a great job of presenting 'live action' combat while still being largely turn based under the hood. It also tells a great story.
I will agree that JRPG's do need to continue to evolve. It started with Final Fantasy, being one of the first that allowed you to make choices, limited as they were. It evolved from the simple enemies on one side, your team on the other side, simple animations to illustrate what was going on, to more advanced systems like the attack animations seen in the later Final Fantasy games.
I suppose the problem is inherently in the game play, as stuff like Final Fantasy and Dragon Age stress asset management and strategy over actual skill with the controls. TES and Mass Effect were a good mix of both asset management and live-action skills. This is the direction that games will take in the future, ala Borderlands. It's the best of both worlds... the brilliant strategy and the twitch gaming skills.
Lost Odyssey is the best JRPG I've played since FFX... I think the problem is that there aren't that many... I can only think of Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Eternal Sonata (which is underrated, in my opinion) and Enchanted Arms for the 360. 4 legit JRPG's in the 5 years 360 has been out... with Enchanted Arms being the only one that borders on unplayable.
Actually there are several fallacies in his argumentation, namely the fictitious belief that having an ART DEGREE gives him the perfect knowledge and understanding necessary to give him the only true opinion. This is equivalent to me say that because I have a black belt I'm a better authority on martial arts than anyone else or anyone with a major in political science makes more political sense than everyone (which we quite often see is wrong, but I digress.) Additionally, in any form of writing that is meant to hold argumentative value, it really detracts when one can't say it without devolving to the usage of "fuck" 35 times, there are truly better, and more appropriate was to express one's dislike of something in an academic matter which I would hope to be the case because of your ART DEGREE, which as you established makes you an authority in a medium that usually isn't considered to be art. True there are some aspects such as graphics and the actual visual aspects but most if not all of your problems are actually with the story which would fall under LITERARY DEGREES, not art degrees.
I love trolls so much (and if this was intended to be sarcasm as noted above it needs to be more obvious and please ignore the above)
I love trolls so much (and if this was intended to be sarcasm as noted above it needs to be more obvious and please ignore the above)
I actually agree with most of what you said. I agree that JRPG's need to evolve beyond what they are now, and that cutscenes are outdated.
I also believe that games should stop trying to be cinematic. If I want a cinematic experience I'll watch a film. When I'm playing a game, I want an interactive experience where I control the terms and speed of the unfolding narrative.
I also can't help but feel that your points would have been better made if you hadn't brought up your art degree every paragraph. Your points were valid and often good, but that just made you seem arrogant as opposed to confident.
I also believe that games should stop trying to be cinematic. If I want a cinematic experience I'll watch a film. When I'm playing a game, I want an interactive experience where I control the terms and speed of the unfolding narrative.
I also can't help but feel that your points would have been better made if you hadn't brought up your art degree every paragraph. Your points were valid and often good, but that just made you seem arrogant as opposed to confident.
Sooooo true. I still play it every once and a while, and I'm sure every time I put it in there will be somewhere new for me to find. Hell, I barely even touched the further half of the island.Unmitigated Hatred said:
I remember when I clicked on an ad for Magna Carta 2 I died a little inside as I read the plot and character bios. Its so generic and 90% of the genre is stuck to the same formula. I really do enjoy a good JRPG, but they refuse to evolve. It's like each one that is made nowadays is a fanboy's remake of an original 90s game.
...because none of them were likable? Or well rounded?Unmitigated Hatred said:
Seriously, when Aries got stabbed, I couldn't care less. I think I honestly said "Wait, who was she again? The healer?"
I also completely disagree with your idea that RPGs are a bad platform for story telling.
If you're looking to tell a linear, unchangeable tale with little to no variance based on character interaction and/or choice, then I would agree with you.
But I always saw RPGs as a fantastic way of telling your story. You can be given a framework (Like Mass Effect: You're always Commander Shepard), but the story is yours to create, even within that framework. I think Mass Effect is a great example of this.
Kill the guy, or let him live?
Explore that planet, or don't?
Save the council, or don't?
How will you Escape the Citadel?
Who survives in your party?
You always end up at the same basic ending, but the story was yours from the beginning.
That, to me, is how a good RPG story is done.
I haven't seen anything like that in a JRPG (Not bashing them, they just aren't for me).
Incidentally, my favorite RPG of all time? The Baldur's Gate Saga. Another phenomenal 'you' story.
While a good read, I feel like you only need to tell us you have an art degree once. Doctors dont go around telling everybody their doctors and rubbing it in their face. they tell people they're doctors by fixing illnesses making money and generally being good at what they do.
while you have tons of good points, everybody is gonna hate you because you say you have an art degree more then once.
while you have tons of good points, everybody is gonna hate you because you say you have an art degree more then once.
JRPG bashing? On the Escapist? Who would have guessed?
On topic, the OP really needs to stop flaunting around his art degree as why his opinion is objectively right, I say this from this thread and that thread by this same guy about why Halo's brilliant (I like Halo, my point was the "I'm objectively right" thing). He also needs to stop being so arrogant [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainObvious].
And to pick a random thing from the OP, American games almost never have cutscenes?
This man, he is wise.linwolf said:
On topic, the OP really needs to stop flaunting around his art degree as why his opinion is objectively right, I say this from this thread and that thread by this same guy about why Halo's brilliant (I like Halo, my point was the "I'm objectively right" thing). He also needs to stop being so arrogant [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainObvious].
And to pick a random thing from the OP, American games almost never have cutscenes?
That means you have a fundamental disagreement with the OP, you realize. He believes they are objectively terrible games.Baby Tea said:
You're the same tosser as the one who hated on Halo? That wasn't good enough for you? You thought 'Hey, let's hate on an entire genre?'
I find your insufferable smugness quite annoying, sir. Perhaps you're making valid points and perhaps not, it's hard to discern them in the swirling, shapeless mass of pure misplaced ego.
I find your insufferable smugness quite annoying, sir. Perhaps you're making valid points and perhaps not, it's hard to discern them in the swirling, shapeless mass of pure misplaced ego.
they are practically the same thingTheButtonMashEffect said:
i dont love all jrpgs, but they do their own thing well, so you cant say theyre bad, and sometimes the plots are original and the characters are good. in FF8, the romance was quite funny as well as heartwarming
EDIT: turns out he liked FF8, so im now going over to his side
I thought I said that I liked Halo in that post. Wow. Goddamn. I guess I need better proof readers then huh.Ekonk said: