I like Midichlorians

[Lilani]

-snip-

It always seemed unnecessary to me. Obiwan says the Jedi mind tricks work better on the weak-minded, suggesting the force is something inherent to the strong-minded and willed. It's almost like a side-effect of being a strong person (not strong physically, but strong in character). Like charisma given form. And that works perfectly with the idea of light and dark side because if someone is strong-willed and kind then naturally the side-effect will enhance them that way. But if someone is strong-willed and cruel, then when that in them is enhanced then they'll go the other direction.

And that also means your life experiences and trials are taken into account, as well. If there's one theme that is threaded throughout Star Wars, it's the idea of growing and making your own choices as to how you deal with life's problems. Taking the idea of the force which blends with that theme so well and turning it into something so impersonal as genetics completely undermines that theme. A good story isn't just about how much stuff "makes sense." And if you are looking for stuff that completely makes sense then sci-fi may not be the best genre to be examining. It's about fully exploring its themes and using all of the tools at its disposal to realize those themes in as many ways as possible. The last thing you want to do is throw in something that totally sabotages the very essence of your story.

 

[the7ofswords]

It turned the Jedi from a bunch of Zen Warrior Monks into a eugenics program.

Way to fuck up spiritual enlightenment Lucas.

It can't be much of a eugenics program when you forbid the Jedi to procreate.

Just imagine the long-term effects! After many thousands of generations of the most force-sensitive people being taken at a very young age and then kept from reproducing ... you're going to get the opposite effect. The Jedi are artificially selecting against force-sensitivity.

I never had a problem with the whole midichlorian thing, as it's presented in Ep I. It just seemed like a lazy writing trick to allow a scientific measurement of Anakin's force-sensitivity. I think most of the people who were the most upset by it were the ones who didn't really understand it. Midichlorians are not the force. They don't generate the force (any more than any other living thing does). The force is an energy field that is created by ALL life. Midichlorians just have a unique ability to help people "hear" the force.

Sort of like tiny little Babel fish living in your cells. XD

 

[2fish]

Ok look at it this way if all jedi know that the force is from this thing in them maybe dna related. They are not allowed to whine about the end of their era when they have not been out there fucking like rabbits to get the magic space genes back into the universe. Think about it they take all the people with the power they can find tell them no relationships/sex now be a Jedi. I wonder why they are dying out? It opens up many flaws in the story/Jedi ways as well as being a throwaway line with little substance that asks more questions rather than answer the intended question.


Also I do dislike the fact that the more you have the more destine you are to be a great jedi/sith. I never thought of the force as a numeric thing until that line. Before I fight him R2 check his Midichlorian count so I know if I can beat vader. It took away much of the value that training, meditation, and life experiences gave to the force and the users power (such as why anger and hate make you stronger if you are willing to sacrifice your looks.

 

[TheMyffic]

...in the Phantom Menace* as symbiotic life-forms that help people connect with the force.

It solves the problem I've always had with some people being force sensitive and others not for no particular reason. It felt like election in the worst sense. And the idea that some people could connect with the force because they were 'better' or something, reinforces the idea of smug Jedi.

Midichlorians solve that problem. It's not about the value of the person, there's natural causes that give some people opportunity to do fantastic things.

To me it doesn't destroy the magic of the force. Midichlorians aren't the force and they don't even generate it, they just help people connect with it. Something so mystical manifesting in the biological thats found in all life even adds to the awe factor for me.

And people connecting to the force through the assistant of microscopic things in a symbiotic relationship emphasises the balance and harmony and how power isn't found in the big brash darkside things.


So yeah, for me they fix something that would really bug me otherwise and only increases the Force's mystique.


I believe this is a view that's not shared by many others...


(Though they weren't presented particularly well in the film. Also I was 8 when the Phantom Menace came out so I'd didn't have the experience of having 20 years of previous conceptions overturned which might be flavouring my view a little)




----
*The EU was really silly about them. In the film Qui-Gon "Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you." and I assumed that the 'speaking to us' was metaphorical because they connect people with the force and the force is all about the universe wide interconnected harmony etc etc. But in the EU, no, they're sentient and are literally telling you things.

It's the same: special because they are 'more force sensitive" or because "there's natural causes that give some people opportunity to do fantastic things." (special because A or special because B = both are special)

It's utterly unfair and completely realistic in comparison to life.

 

[BrotherRool]

It's the same: special because they are 'more force sensitive" or because "there's natural causes that give some people opportunity to do fantastic things." (special because A or special because B = both are special)

It's utterly unfair and completely realistic in comparison to life.

It's true but I'm bugged by the idea of the magical force being responsible for some people having it and others not, it sort of feels like it diminishes the force for me

 

[Something Amyss]

Because it's not about them being more righteous or anything. It's a genetic/organic thing they had no control over. It's like being really tall. You're 'better' than other people but not in a way that would induce smugness

They conduct themselves in the same way, though. They're just as "smug" as they were before.

So again, how is this better?

 

[Phuctifyno]

When I first saw The Phantom Menace, I thought Midichlorians were a neat idea because I was expecting to find out later on in the series that they were some kind of red herring or ruse concocted by the Emperor that would unfold a plot or theme involving the Jedi's religious ways clashing with popular scientific opinion and weakening their resolve before being defeated.

I was wrong.

I think everything's already been said though: Poorly placed sci-fi in a fantasy story, diminishes the Force (in making it more of an arbitrary superpower than a rigorous and mysterious discipline), diminishes the Jedi (in making it more about what you can do than who you are as a person), and "May The Force Be With You" has absolutely no meaning in that world any more - it used to be something you could say to anybody to wish them luck or to be the best they can be, but now it all depends on what your "count" is. So why would anyone say it? I would never say "May The Walk Be With You" to someone in a wheelchair.

Casual Shinji beat me to a quote that I like to use whenever comparing the original trilogy to the prequels.... but I'll repeat it anyway to emphasize the point, because it's damn good.

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

Regardless of whether or not you believe that, it's what Star Wars used to be about... until the prequels shit all over it in style and content, Midichlorians being the reigning champion of the content side of it.

 

[BrotherRool]

Because it's not about them being more righteous or anything. It's a genetic/organic thing they had no control over. It's like being really tall. You're 'better' than other people but not in a way that would induce smugness

They conduct themselves in the same way, though. They're just as "smug" as they were before.

So again, how is this better?

I don't know if they have to be smug. The best jedi understand they've been given a gift and they have a responsibility that comes with that. For a real life analogy a world class athlete should understand that they've been gifted with a body that can do incredible things and then their hardwork and dedication has taken them to where they are. If it is true/that start talking about only that hardwork and dedication that they put in to get them where they are then it gets into smug territory

 

[minimacker]

Midichlorians made the Force a quantity. Being "strong in the Force" was no longer a matter of character, fate and destiny, it was about how many midichlorians you had. It became something tangible and physical. George Lucas tried to make his Science-Fantasy into a Science-Fiction by trying to create answers.

He only ended up creating more questions.

 

[senordesol]

To be honest, what killed it for me was the fact that the 'Force' could be measured. I could accept that a predisposition for Force sensitivity or even Force ability was genetic, but it strikes me as odd to suggest that you can never be 'better' at the Force than what your stupid Midichlorians say you can.

Yoda was so magical and interesting in ESB & RotJ because we understood that he was a centuries-old creature, whom -after several lifetimes' worth of discipline and training- was able to Veeeerrrry slowly pull an X-Wing out of a swamp. It was understood that for him to be able to do that required intense focus and drawing upon abilities that he had spent all his life honing.

But no, apparently that was the best he could ever do because of stupid cellular organisms. Were it Starkiller in that swamp, he could have grabbed it and thrown it into orbit if he wanted to because he had more midichlorians. This isn't to say that the Force doesn't require considerable training before you're able to wield it respectably, but it just seems...weird to place an arbitrary limit of one's entire potential (regardless of time or training) to this "mystical energy field" based on microscopic organisms.

 

[Woodsey]

OT: I've never had a problem with it. They're described as an indicator of force potential, the force is still a separate, magical entity. I think it ties in with the fantasy-in-space style quite nicely.

But that's the point, Star Wars never wasted our time with explaining how anything got done, when you live with things everyday you don't then waste time explaining them to other people that live with them all the time. Keeping it inexplicable lets you fill in the details your self to your own satisfaction.

Um, does Anakin even know what a Jedi is when they explain midichlorians to him? Because he sure as shit doesn't know what they are.

 

[randomrob]

I agree with the OP, Midichlorians take away one of the few stupid things about the original trilogy i.e. why would the force be strong in a particular family? Is this mystical, all-powerful force nepotistic? No, force sensitivity has a biological component inherited genetically. Simple. It makes more sense than the force just having a boner for the Skywalker family.

 

[Cecilo]

But that is the thing isn't it. Despite having Midichlorians, they still had to train. Anakin wasn't just able to use the force because he had a high count. It required years of training to be able to harness it. Most children had to be taken from their parents at or near birth to even have a CHANCE to become Jedi. Those who weren't. Were not just throwing things, or pulling things around.

As a counter to the arguments that Jedi are not warrior monks anymore. Not every person is born able to be a true religious person, to swear off sex, drugs, wordly desires, and even if you are it takes years to get into it. Luke as well took three movies just to be able to use concentrated force powers and even then wasn't very proficient at them due to his lack of training or practice. Sure he could concentrate and be more focused in A New Hope. And he could reach out to others in The Empire Strikes Back. But until he trained he wasn't really a jedi. He was a kid with a lightsaber.

 

[DoPo]

I agree with the OP, Midichlorians take away one of the few stupid things about the original trilogy i.e. why would the force be strong in a particular family? Is this mystical, all-powerful force nepotistic?

No, it's mystical all-powerful force. Have you no touch with other media that uses a similar thing? Namely, magic? In Harry Potter, you have wizard families - just bunch of people being able to do break reality and that's a family trait. Occasionally, a person of a magical heritage cannot actually do magic, and occasionally, a person from a normal family can. It. Is. Just. Magic. It sets up the rules, it also breaks them when it feels convenient. That's what it does. Seriously, it sounds like you've never heard of the concept before when it's been around for a while and in no way, shape, or form does Star Wars make anything weird or bizarre - it's playing by the tropes that we know and already accept. Trying to explain it after you've set it up is not only strange, it's ineffective as it inevitably leads to more questions you never needed to answer.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

I'm not adverse to giving a Science Fictiony explanations for fantasy concepts.
I'm a Warhammer 40K fan, that kind of shit is my bread and butter.

The problem with Midichlorians is that they aren't a valid explanation for anything and they raise more questions than they answer.

In the OT The Force was essentially Space Chi.
Yeah obviously there was a genetic element to sensitivity but that's fine. If so inclined one could probably locate "The Force Genome" and replicate/activate it if they wanted to (don't look now but I think I just pitched a better Clone Wars concept than AotC)

The point is that some folks were born more sensitive than others and that's enough to explain how and why they are able to do what they do. Everything beyond that it a matter of a lifetime of discipline, training, meditation and study.
It's no different than the Magi or Wizards found in any other fantasy story.

With the introduction of Midichlorians...Why is anyone "too old to begin the training?" If Force sensitivity is determined by the number of micro organisms in your blood then what's to stop the Jedi from transplanting blood into anyone at any time to increase their sensitivity?
If that's too ghoulish for the Jedi it's certainly not beyond the Sith. Any one of the Sith Lords prior to this should have been kidnapping Jedi and transplanting Midichlorians centuries ago.

But okay I'll even give you that added sensitivity doesn't automatically give you the training needed so here's this instead.

There's a "blink and you'll miss it" line in Revenge of the Sith (I think could have been AotC) where Yoda and Mace Windu are talking about how the Jedi are losing their powers.

Why? Did their blood parasites get sick? Did they contract some sort of blood bourne pathogen that's slowly killing the sea monkeys living in their blood?

Lastly there's Anakin's immaculate conception.
In a universe where The Force is a magical energy flowing through all the flowers and birds and bees and rocks and trees I can buy into a twisted sorcerer manipulating this life energy to produce an alchemical abomination.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure you can take all the magical blood worms in the world and smoosh them into the shape of a human and I'd bet my left foot it wouldn't congeal into an actual human being.

 

[uzo]

I find the addition of Midichlorians remarkably stupid. A statistical measure of capacity-for-heroism.

It'd be like we were watching Lord of the Rings, and the Witch King is about to gobble up the King of Rohan when Eowyn charges into the fight.

Witch King: You fool! No man can kill me! Die now!
Eowyn: I am no man! I am a 14HD Fighter, with Chain, +2, a Helm of All-Seeing, and a Vorpal Longsword, +5! With my THAC0 of 7, and your AC of 1 because of your Full Plate, +1, I know I only need to roll an 8 on a d20, and with the +5 to-hit from my vorpal longsword, I only need to roll a 3. In other words, you have, at best, a 50% chance of survival on my next roll. And besides, if you survive the first attack I get 4 attacks before you recover from that backstabbing halfling who rolled a natural 20 last round.

 

[AngelOfBlueRoses]

I consider Star Wars to be more fantasy than science fiction. I don't care for reasons. I'm okay with space magic. Stop trying to explain away everything and take away the awe.

 

[randomrob]

Have you no touch with other media that uses a similar thing? Namely, magic? In Harry Potter, you have wizard families - just bunch of people being able to do break reality and that's a family trait. Occasionally, a person of a magical heritage cannot actually do magic, and occasionally, a person from a normal family can.

Which again, would make sense if magical ability (or the potential for it) is inherited genetically, occasionally the trait arises in muggle families, or disappears in wizarding ones. It's never stated outright that it's genetic, but one of the major plot points in Harry Potter is that some of those with the wizarding "gene" or all wizard inheritance wanting to eliminate or enslave everyone who doesn't.

It. Is. Just. Magic. It sets up the rules, it also breaks them when it feels convenient. That's what it does. Seriously, it sounds like you've never heard of the concept before when it's been around for a while and in no way, shape, or form does Star Wars make anything weird or bizarre - it's playing by the tropes that we know and already accept. Trying to explain it after you've set it up is not only strange, it's ineffective as it inevitably leads to more questions you never needed to answer.

It. Is. Not. Just. Magic. The Force is entirely natural, it was always stated to be an energy field created by living things, not some mystical magic power. It resembles magic, but done in a sci-fi setting. They could have just called it magic and left it at that? Would you have preferred that? Would it have given you more "awe" at the movies? Midichlorians are harmless unnecessary exposition at worst, and something that makes the Force seem less stupid at best.

 

[chinangel]

I don't really like this midichlorians thing, really why do psychic powers need an explanation? The force is telekinesis, telepathy and other fun mental powers. End of story.