I liked the ending to Mass Effect 3

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

well, you missed the point TWICE, but ok. i just don't know why everyone is up in arms about the ending. i also don't why people think they are so entitled to say that they demand a different ending of a game in which they had no part of creating said game. also, a whole paragraph? jesus christ, you could talk a brick wall down. also, i am not angry. i don't where you got that from, Dr.Phil.

Yeah...and this is the point you're missing. Your INABILITY to understand other points of view does not necessarily indicate that other points of view are flawed. It demonstrates an INABILITY on your part to think outside yourself. Believe it or not, I'm capable of paraphrasing the arguments of people who disagree with me in respectful ways, without resorting to straw men, name calling, or sneering. I may still disagree with them, but that doesn't mean I can't UNDERSTAND and RESPECT their point of view. There isn't even a real trick to it. It's called being an adult.

well then you tell me why, I DON'T KNOW!!! if i did...then i would know. but i don't.

so, you tell me why people should have a say in games they had nothing to do with.

 

[Newps]

The game is not over yet and that is what makes me sad. that the game forces you to buy DLC to finish the fight. That is just wrong. Worse than the ending of this game. Back in the old days of 2011 we finished the game with out shipping it broken and not finished. If there was more to the game after that moment it would have been the greatest thing of all time. No if ands or buts, it would have been the greatest thing in gaming if only they finished this epic game.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

so, you tell me why people should have a say in games they had nothing to do with.

Have you ever owned, or operated, or had a stake in a business that was customer facing?

Are you familiar with the concept of how a complaining customer is a customer who is giving you a chance to make things right, and giving you a chance to keep their business?

The alternative is a customer who just leaves, and gives their business to someone else, and never gives you a chance to repair that relationship. That's just lost revenue.

Are you aware that Bioware is, first and foremost, a business? A business that relies on annual income from game sales to maintain their existence?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble, have said on numerous occasions that they consider the players to be co-authors, and that they write their games based in large part on player feedback? A concept reaffirmed by Ray Muzyka in his address regarding the endings?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Jessica Merizan, praised "Retake ME3" as an example of positive, constructive criticism, and said they made her proud to work with the community?

So maybe YOU can tell ME...what part is it about fans expressing criticism of a game, a game they have been expressly invited on numerous occasions to criticize and take part on the direction of, what part of that process is problematic to you? What's the preferable alternative? Fans have no opinions at all? Fans just cease to be fans, and Bioware ceases to exist?

 

[Woodsey]

Actually, I didn't find the ending that bad. It was more of a "Well, that happened," reaction for me rather than incandescent rage. I expected how ready you were having a far greater impact on how the ending turned out, but that's about my biggest complaint. The whole segment with Anderson and the Illusive Man was excellent, in my opinion.

I'm inclined to agree, although perhaps I was just expecting far worse given the furor over it.

I do think a better idea would be to have that moment with Shepard and Anderson and, as they watch, you see if you'd done enough to win or not. Even so, that's not perfect. They were trying to capitalise on the idea that this had gone on for millions of years, and that stopping it really was nigh-impossible.

The people who just plain didn't like it - and seem to find it a personal insult that they were all rather depressing - remind me of the guys who played the second game and were surprised when their team mates and their Shepard died, and they couldn't use them in the third game. After being told it was a suicide mission. In game and out. Multiple times.

I'm more sympathetic (empathetic?) to those who feel the choices we made should have played a far larger role (especially when they got the ME2 finale so right), although plenty of those then dive head first into the "EVERY CHOICE WAS MEANINGLESS" argument. Choices weren't meaningless, they were just taken into account in the middle portion of the story as opposed to right at the end. But yes, the care and attention that went into making the ME2 finale would have been welcome.

snip

Take it into account on the next project, not one that's done and dusted. There's something to be said for artistic principles. You've noted yourself that they're first and foremost a business, so the struggle to maintain any semblance of those principles is already on something of a knife-edge.

 

[verdant monkai]

HERETIC but no really there are to many unanswered questions, like why does joker abandon you. I am sorry but I just feel that if you liked the end you just don't really care about the story or characters that much because, you are left clueless as to what happens to them.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Take it into account on the next project, not one that's done and dusted. There's something to be said for artistic principles. You've noted yourself that they're first and foremost a business, so the struggle to maintain any semblance of those principles is already on something of a knife-edge.

Yeah but it's not done and dusted, though. It's a medium that constantly gets patched, constantly expands via DLC, and is pretty much in a persistent state of evolution from the moment it's released. Not to mention it's a game that already allowed for the concept of multiple endings to begin with. Once you've crossed the "this can end in more than one way" threshold the "canon" argument ceases to have any real weight. They can fix their logical loopholes, clean up their shit production values, and slap a few more endings on that thing, and their artistic integrity will be 100% intact. What artistic integrity they have left to lay claim to after Photoshop Tali and EDI's camel toe, mind you. =P

 

[TakeshiLive]

I will respect Bioware's decision for the Mass Effect trilogy's conclusion. It's their IP, not mine or yours however much we may get attached to it. If you don't like it, well then, go make your own epic sci-fi trilogy and end that the way you want it to.

 

[Woodsey]

Take it into account on the next project, not one that's done and dusted. There's something to be said for artistic principles. You've noted yourself that they're first and foremost a business, so the struggle to maintain any semblance of those principles is already on something of a knife-edge.

Yeah but it's not done and dusted, though. It's a medium that constantly gets patched, constantly expands via DLC, and is pretty much in a persistent state of evolution from the moment it's released. Not to mention it's a game that already allowed for the concept of multiple endings to begin with. Once you've crossed the "this can end in more than one way" threshold the "canon" argument ceases to have any real weight. They can fix their logical loopholes, clean up their shit production values, and slap a few more endings on that thing, and their artistic integrity will be 100% intact. What artistic integrity they have left to lay claim to after Photoshop Tali and EDI's camel toe, mind you. =P

Much of their DLC has been shit (as a development studio in general, they're no good at it), and I'd hardly call that maintaining artistic integrity; bolting something on to the end, or pretending that part of the story never happened.

Disconnects happen between creators and their audience all the time, and that's not grounds for the audience wrestling any sort of control beyond expressing their opinion. Pull apart the ending, rip it to shreds, say its the worst thing you've ever seen, yada yada yada, but apply that knowledge to the next game.

Is it a shame? Yes. Is ripping off the ending and starting again, as directed by the audience, the right response? No.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

so, you tell me why people should have a say in games they had nothing to do with.

Have you ever owned, or operated, or had a stake in a business that was customer facing?

Are you familiar with the concept of how a complaining customer is a customer who is giving you a chance to make things right, and giving you a chance to keep their business?

The alternative is a customer who just leaves, and gives their business to someone else, and never gives you a chance to repair that relationship. That's just lost revenue.

Are you aware that Bioware is, first and foremost, a business? A business that relies on annual income from game sales to maintain their existence?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble, have said on numerous occasions that they consider the players to be co-authors, and that they write their games based in large part on player feedback? A concept reaffirmed by Ray Muzyka in his address regarding the endings?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Jessica Merizan, praised "Retake ME3" as an example of positive, constructive criticism, and said they made her proud to work with the community?

So maybe YOU can tell ME...what part is it about fans expressing criticism of a game, a game they have been expressly invited on numerous occasions to criticize and take part on the direction of, what part of that process is problematic to you? What's the preferable alternative? Fans have no opinions at all? Fans just cease to be fans, and Bioware ceases to exist?

see now that makes alot more sense. those are some damn good points. my conflict is that people are not just asking for a new ending, they are demanding it as if they have any authority in the matter. honestly i wouldn't mind a new ending. I just think some people need to chill first. It really is only a game. Off-topic i am not a raging bioware fan. I REALLY wish they hadn't F---ED up C&C4. I was really looking forward to that. but i feel in this case bioware is getting aggro they don't deserve.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Is it a shame? Yes. Is ripping off the ending and starting again, as directed by the audience, the right response? No.

I gotta tell you, we all need to collectively stop doing this. Asking ourselves a question and then responding with our opinion is not a compelling statement of fact.

As for the rest of it...the audience always has "control", insomuch as their willingness to consume or not consume the product in question drives development. That control has always been here. It's application in this case is no different.

And again, adding more endings to a game with multiple endings does nothing to the artistic integrity. Nothing at all. Even if they release DLC that retcons the ending, it's still just another permutation of the canon. This is a game where genders can be switched around, people live and die, entire civilizations rise and fall, depending on player input. Toggling an ending doesn't chuck it off the cliff of artistic relevance.

see now that makes alot more sense. those are some damn good points. my conflict is that people are not just asking for a new ending, they are demanding it as if they have any authority in the matter. honestly i wouldn't mind a new ending. Off-topic i am not a raging bioware fan. I REALLY wish they hadn't F---ED up C&C4. I was really looking forward to that. but i feel in this case bioware is getting aggro they don't deserve.

What's the demand, though? The demand is just a threat to take their business elsewhere, and that's a threat that every consumer has a fundamental right to exercise. If people were kidnapping Bioware developers it would be one thing. This is just the market responding to a bad decision. As Bioware has more loyal fans than most developers, they're giving them a chance to fix it instead of just pissing off. Bioware's response to this is GRATITUDE. The only people getting upset are random spectators on forums.

 

[spartandude]

so ive begun to calm down from the ending, originally it pissed me off so much that i didnt want to play the ME games at all, but once i calmed down i realised i was over reacting and i am playing them again

however the ending still PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF! it was awfull, nonsense, and was exactly what we were promised we wouldnt get and it did render all previous gameplay irrelevent and i do support the movement to have it changed

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

Is it a shame? Yes. Is ripping off the ending and starting again, as directed by the audience, the right response? No.

I gotta tell you, we all need to collectively stop doing this. Asking ourselves a question and then responding with our opinion is not a compelling statement of fact.

As for the rest of it...the audience always has "control", insomuch as their willingness to consume or not consume the product in question drives development. That control has always been here. It's application in this case is no different.

And again, adding more endings to a game with multiple endings does nothing to the artistic integrity. Nothing at all. Even if they release DLC that retcons the ending, it's still just another permutation of the canon. This is a game where genders can be switched around, people live and die, entire civilizations rise and fall, depending on player input. Toggling an ending doesn't chuck it off the cliff of artistic relevance.

see now that makes alot more sense. those are some damn good points. my conflict is that people are not just asking for a new ending, they are demanding it as if they have any authority in the matter. honestly i wouldn't mind a new ending. Off-topic i am not a raging bioware fan. I REALLY wish they hadn't F---ED up C&C4. I was really looking forward to that. but i feel in this case bioware is getting aggro they don't deserve.

What's the demand, though? The demand is just a threat to take their business elsewhere, and that's a threat that every consumer has a fundamental right to exercise. If people were kidnapping Bioware developers it would be one thing. This is just the market responding to a bad decision. As Bioware has more loyal fans than most developers, they're giving them a chance to fix it instead of just pissing off. Bioware's response to this is GRATITUDE. The only people getting upset are random spectators on forums.

ok, that makes sense. off-topic what's with the "Marauder Shields" thing? Do you know anything about that?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

ok, that makes sense. off-topic what's with the "Marauder Shields" thing? Do you know anything about that?

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/marauder-shields

He tried to save us from the ending.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

ok, that makes sense. off-topic what's with the "Marauder Shields" thing? Do you know anything about that?

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/marauder-shields

He tried to save us from the ending.

ah. well, it is what it is. unless bioware changes it, then "it will be what it will be". still think ME3 is awesome sauce.

 

[tautologico]

I like the idea of the ending, because I believe an "Independence Day"-style ending with people hugging after defeating the bad guys would be really terrible, far worse than what's there in the end. The Reapers and the cycle have lasted for millions of years, in galaxy-wide scale, so ending the cycle should have a huge impact in the galaxy. And the ending does this.

However, I think the idea was badly executed, and this is part of the reason for the backlash. The endings feel rushed, the reasons for everything are badly explained, and the tone changes so drastically from the rest of the games that reacting badly to it is understandable. Although the dream sequences in ME3 try to point to a more "symbolic" direction, it is not enough. By the way, the dream sequences themselves are kinda weak.

So yeah, I like the idea, but not how the ending was actually presented. As for the rest of ME3, it is very good, and probably the best in the series.

 

[Woodsey]

Is it a shame? Yes. Is ripping off the ending and starting again, as directed by the audience, the right response? No.

I gotta tell you, we all need to collectively stop doing this. Asking ourselves a question and then responding with our opinion is not a compelling statement of fact.

Sorry, I didn't realise you were one of those people needed blatant clarification of when something is clearly someone else's opinion. Its my argument in a nutshell, of course its not an attempt to pass something completely subjective off as fact.

 

[Rariow]

I liked what they were trying to pull off: No ending is fully good, every ending is morally suspect and no Shepard would REALLY want to do them. Thing is, what really annoys me is the lack of closure. I'd like to know what happened to the Krogan, the Geth, the Quarians... Where the Reapers right? Will the Geth eventually wipe out life? Or is this peace for good? Will the genophage cure backfire on the galaxy, or will Wrex keep it in control? Most importantly, what the hell is up with the Citadel/Star Child/Catalyst after all?

Apart from the lack of closure, only the incoherence in the "Save you from synthetics destroying you by making synthetics destroy you" policy really annoyed me.

 

[TakeshiLive]

I must say, people who tell others "make your own endings" gets to me. Not because it's offensive or anything but the fact that even if we wanted to- the years it would take to be good at animation along with the budget.. we couldn't do it. Not only that, but when people state their concerns or opinions on the ending, others shout out, "It's their work and art, deal with it because you have no say in what they do."

So.. if that's the case, are we not allowed to be concerned with how Bioware or any company for that matter handles things? Everyone gets on EA for very cheap methods and corrupted schemes that tend to try ripping off consumers sadly and yet when Bioware follows up (with the 1 day DLC deal, the ending of ME3, the message that pops up after ending saying to buy more of their DLC..) some people defend them merely because they feel Bioware knows what it's doing.

To be honest, I don't think they are being considerate. As much as I dislike the ending (I hate it actually), I wouldn't demand they change it but rather hear us out so they prevent making future bad endings or heck a future bad game that rubs players off. But guess what? Bioware closed their feedback forums. Yeah, Casey Hudson (the director) asked for feedback, most people who were civil gave feedback but then Bioware shuts their threads on us and doesn't want to hear anymore criticism. So in truth Casey excuses the ending by saying it's art and that people must respect that... yet, in life people who make art whether it'd be in College, in their careers.. their art are always criticized for the better, to improve. I hope that makes sense because I take art and I always want criticism. Overall if I were to make an ending for a trilogy then I would really want to improve if 90% of the whole community were hating on it for very good reasons.

Fair enough point but I still think the whole thing is completely blown apart. I was myself dissapointed by the ending but I wasn't crushed by it. I'd rather criticize the EA's online service for Mass Effect or any other of their games for that fact (Must create EA account, must redeem online pass, oh what's that? You bought yours second hand? Well, too bad, pay an extra 10 dollars/pounds/euros etc.)

Well, correct me if I'm wrong but did Bioware literally promise the ending it didn't deliver? Admittedly, the final still-ish shot with the (albiet beautiful) landscape felt a little half-arsed. Please do tell me how the ending could be "fixed" in you opinion but it would still have to follow the gameplay and story narrative.

 

[Vuljatar]

well, sorry you didn't like the ending but at the same time IT'S A FUCKING GAME! christ you think someone actually died from all this internet rage. if you didn't like it, make your own damn game, then you can have whatever ending you want. until then STFU. i've played ME1, ME2 and ME3 and liked my ending. not saying it was perfect, but i liked it.

and all i see out of your post is "blahblahblahBUTTHURTblahblahblahCHANGETHEENDINGBECAUSEI'MSOFUCKINGIMPORTANTblahblahblah"

Are you trolling? Because you just ignored my entire post and repeated the same B.S. you said in the first place. If you're not going to even attempt to respond to my points, what is the point of your presence in this thread?

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

well, sorry you didn't like the ending but at the same time IT'S A FUCKING GAME! christ you think someone actually died from all this internet rage. if you didn't like it, make your own damn game, then you can have whatever ending you want. until then STFU. i've played ME1, ME2 and ME3 and liked my ending. not saying it was perfect, but i liked it.

and all i see out of your post is "blahblahblahBUTTHURTblahblahblahCHANGETHEENDINGBECAUSEI'MSOFUCKINGIMPORTANTblahblahblah"

Are you trolling? Because you just ignored my entire post and repeated the same B.S. you said in the first place. If you're not going to even attempt to respond to my points, what is the point of your presence in this thread?

uh, sry? i wasn't trying to ignore you, i was offline prolly. or afk. what where your points pertaining to my post?