I might know how to destroy "First!" once and for all

[hexFrank202]

For threads that are for main features of the site, the first post has a minimum word # requirement.

So for example, the first comment for a new ZP episode must be at least 100 words long. Then the second, third and fourth must be 75 words long. Then the fourth through tenth must be at least 50.

That way, the first posters HAVE to come up with something useful and meaningful to say. Until someone whips up a good post, nobody gets to talk.


Perceived problem #1: "That would be awkward and unfair; bringing the community to a sluggish halt just to get the first few posts off the ground."
But with this concept in action, I promise you, people will be scrambling to be the first ones to post. It will give one all the same great excitement and honor of being first, multiplied SEVERAL times over, because of how hard the title would be to achieve. The first ten posts will get made in no time at all.

Perceived problem #2: "But... wouldn't most people just spam 100 words into their post, just like how they spam a very short, quick post now?"
I can't say why exactly, but I just know that that wouldn't happen. I guarantee you. Not nearly as often, anyway. I dunno, I just have a feel for these things. A potential spammer would be extremely hesitant to manufacture a 100-word post with completely random brainfarts that make no sense; it's a very obvious, embarrassing crime. The fact that "First!" or "Haha nice vid!" or "Yay a new Movie Bob!" is done so frequently is because it is a short, quick act of vandalism that the poster can justify to them self very easily. A 100-word spam fest, they can not.

Now 90% of them WILL just sit down for a minute, think super hard and force themselves to come up with something to say that will just barely get by the mods. So sure, it won't be natural. They would force the ideas to come to them within a very small time constraint. But you know who else forces their ideas to come to them within a very small time constraint? Trey Parker and Matt Stone.


Edit:
It seems whenever I have a totally sweet idea and tell the Escapist about it, it gets shot down by everybody because none of them can take the greatness. And then I have to spend HOURS responding to every little nitpick and variable; most of the time it's just the same three arguments being made over and over again in slightly different words. So, just a little advice, if you come up with something to discredit this awesome idea with, first read through this thread. If you see somebody else already made pretty much the same point as you did, just quote or snip-quote their comment and say "I second that." It'll save me a lot of time.

 

[Something Amyss]

Low content posts are already moddable. Are you talking about literally locking it to prevent fewer than 100 words or so?

 

[hexFrank202]

Low content posts are already moddable. Are you talking about literally locking it to prevent fewer than 100 words or so?

Here's a part I was originally going to put in the original post, but decided it was unnecessary:

Escapist is one of the few websites I know of that at least tries to hold back the awkward, annoying phenomenon of FIRSTing. But just banning and prob'ing them is only masking the symptoms and still ends up causing Page 1 of every ZP episode thread look bad (not to mention how it may scare away potential members of the community; nobody likes getting banned).
And it's a little ridiculous how many of the first few posts will get their users a warning that would have gotten away clean if they had been on Page 2 or after. It's like you just SHOULD NOT be the first one to post; your odds of getting banned are really high.

 

[tippy2k2]

That wouldn't work for reason #2 and your argument of "My Gut says this wouldn't be a problem" really does nothing to convince me...

If the person is silly enough to say FIRST!, then they're going to be silly enough to say

FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST
FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST

That took me about three seconds to bang out.

 

[tippy2k2]

Well it ate my post so hopefully two of these won't pop up...

Edit: DAMN! Well played Escapist...spitting out my post after I re-posted.

 

[lacktheknack]

While I admire your optimism, I'm pretty sure that many people, filled with indignation with this system, will sacrifice a warning and make the first post be:

"FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST!"

It technically meets the requirement, and gets their protest across.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

Low content posts are already moddable. Are you talking about literally locking it to prevent fewer than 100 words or so?

Here's a part I was originally going to put in the original post, but decided it was unnecessary:

Escapist is one of the few websites I know of that at least tries to hold back the awkward, annoying phenomenon of FIRSTing. But just banning and prob'ing them is only masking the symptoms and still ends up causing Page 1 of every ZP episode thread look bad (not to mention how it may scare away potential members of the community; nobody likes getting banned).
And it's a little ridiculous how many of the first few posts will get their users a warning that would have gotten away clean if they had been on Page 2 or after. It's like you just SHOULD NOT be the first one to post; your odds of getting banned are really high.

In cases where it really shouldn't have gotten mod-wrath it was likely posted before the poster could have possibly watched the video. One minute after a five minute video goes up = warning.

 

[Something Amyss]

While I admire your optimism, I'm pretty sure that many people, filled with indignation with this system, will sacrifice a warning and make the first post be:

"FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST FIRST!"

It technically meets the requirement, and gets their protest across.

And, as a result, make it more annoying the process. So it seems to make things worse, eh?

 

[hexFrank202]

Snip.

I'm sorry but, just... no. It won't. I mean I know SOME people will still do it, but I swear to you, at least on The Escapist, this idea would cut down on page 1 spam by at least 70%.

Let me try and elaborate a little more on the argument. Here on TE, as I have perceived, most of the FIRST's don't even contain the word 'first'. They usually appear to be legitimate posts; very short messages that sort of look like a real statement. "I love this show!" or "That was hilarious!", something they can say that sounds like they're talking about something, without even having to watch the video.

So basically, the spammers here don't want to look like spammers. TE is a good enough of a community that almost nobody wants to go all-out and just completely, obviously flood a thread. They have some manners. If they C+P'ed a word over and over again to fill up the 100 word limit, it would obviously be spamming. Which is what people on this website don't want to do. Give TE's community the credit it deserves.

 

[hexFrank202]

Snip

Amazing. COMPLETE re-tread of a previous post just two inches above you. *fans self* Sorry... sorry... that just... GAH. I despise people all coming up with the same flawed argument, totally oblivious to the other people who came before them.

In cases where it really shouldn't have gotten mod-wrath it was likely posted before the poster could have possibly watched the video. One minute after a five minute video goes up = warning.

Well okay, that's a good point. That destroys these two sentences:

"And it's a little ridiculous how many of the first few posts will get their users a warning that would have gotten away clean if they had been on Page 2 or after. It's like you just SHOULD NOT be the first one to post; your odds of getting banned are really high."

The rest of the post, however, has yet to be dealt with.

 

[tippy2k2]

Snip.

I'm sorry but, just... no. It won't. I mean I know SOME people will still do it, but I swear to you, at least on The Escapist, this idea would cut down on page 1 spam by at least 70%.

Let me try and elaborate a little more on the argument. Here on TE, as I have perceived, most of the FIRST's don't even contain the word 'first'. They usually appear to be legitimate posts; very short messages that sort of look like a real statement. "I love this show!" or "That was hilarious!", something they can say that sounds like they're talking about something, without even having to watch the video.

So basically, the spammers here don't want to look like spammers. TE is a good enough of a community that almost nobody wants to go all-out and just completely, obviously flood a thread. They have some manners. If they C+P'ed a word over and over again to fill up the 100 word limit, it would obviously be spamming. Which is what people on this website don't want to do. Give TE's community the credit it deserves.

Alright, for funsy, let's give you the benefit of the doubt and actually take a look at the comments for Zero Punctuation. Comment in bold.

Gears of War 3: Awesome episode as always, posted at 11am Wow, 11am is when the video was posted. He's either seeing into the future or is a FIRST person.

Resistance 3: A point in your favor, a real post!

Dead Island: Yay! Got out of class just in time for a little Zero Punctuation! at 11:02 AND Finally! I've been waiting for this for Lord knows how long. at 11:02 Wow, more time travelers? No, just FIRST people.

Driver: Awesome at 11:01 ...definitely time traveler this time.


I'm sure you get my point by now. If your idea of making people stop being obnoxious is they'll totally do it on their own, you have not been on the internet for very long.

 

[mjc0961]

Perceived problem #2: "But... wouldn't most people just spam 100 words into their post, just like how they spam a very short, quick post now?"
I can't say why exactly, but I just know that that wouldn't happen. I guarantee you. Not nearly as often, anyway. I dunno, I just have a feel for these things. A potential spammer would be extremely hesitant to manufacture a 100-word post with completely random brainfarts that make no sense; it's a very obvious, embarrassing crime. The fact that "First!" or "Haha nice vid!" or "Yay a new Movie Bob!" is done so frequently is because it is a short, quick act of vandalism that the poster can justify to them self very easily. A 100-word spam fest, they can not.

You are, in fact, quite wrong. I've seen plenty of examples where some kind of limit like this is in place and people just spam right through it anyway. If you put in a character limit, they will just say what they want and put random characters in to squeak by the filter. If you put in a post count requirement, they will go spam happy until they hit that requirement and then act like they did nothing wrong. And if you put in a word count filter, people will spam that too. I'm sorry, but unless your name is Leeroy Jethro Gibbs, your gut feeling means nothing when there are plenty of examples of people spamming however they have to to get around filters.

Edit:
It seems whenever I have a totally sweet idea and tell the Escapist about it, it gets shot down by everybody because none of them can take the greatness. And then I have to spend HOURS responding to every little nitpick and variable; most of the time it's just the same three arguments being made over and over again in slightly different words. So, just a little advice, if you come up with something to discredit this awesome idea with, first read through this thread. If you see somebody else already made pretty much the same point as you did, just quote or snip-quote their comment and say "I second that." It'll save me a lot of time.

Also, get off your high horse. People don't like the idea because it's not a great one, your main reason for saying that it will work is that you "just know" it will work, and because dealing with the "FIRST" idiots is already easy enough: they get in trouble and their post is hidden so you don't have to read it.

 

[lacktheknack]

Edit:
It seems whenever I have a totally sweet idea and tell the Escapist about it, it gets shot down by everybody because none of them can take the greatness. And then I have to spend HOURS responding to every little nitpick and variable; most of the time it's just the same three arguments being made over and over again in slightly different words. So, just a little advice, if you come up with something to discredit this awesome idea with, first read through this thread. If you see somebody else already made pretty much the same point as you did, just quote or snip-quote their comment and say "I second that." It'll save me a lot of time.

You realize that your little tirade here filled about a hundred people with angry indignation, and they'll go out of their way to annoy you, right?

Trust me, we've ALL had fantastic ideas, but sometimes those "three repeated arguments" are there for a reason... they wreck your idea.

You say "give the Escapist community the credit it deserves", but kind of cross yourself with your edit. Anyways, you find it unimaginable that people would be spammy enough to post the word "FIRST" a hundred times, but check the video threads again. Do you think anyone REALLY cares? I sure don't.

And if constant mod wrath isn't doing the trick, this won't either.

 

[tippy2k2]

Snip

Amazing. COMPLETE re-tread of a previous post just two inches above you. *fans self* Sorry... sorry... that just... GAH. I despise people all coming up with the same flawed argument, totally oblivious to the other people who came before them.

Dude, calm the hell down. He posted a whole two minutes after my post. They likely were writing at the same time I was writing and I just beat'em to the punch.

 

[lacktheknack]

Snip

Amazing. COMPLETE re-tread of a previous post just two inches above you. *fans self* Sorry... sorry... that just... GAH. I despise people all coming up with the same flawed argument, totally oblivious to the other people who came before them.

Not really using your amazing brain, are you?

That post wasn't there when I typed. Is it REALLY so incredibly impossible that maybe I walked into the thread three minutes before posting?

Apparently, EVERYTHING works in your favor when you're on your high horse.

 

[hexFrank202]

Statistics about 'time travelers'

Okay, I was misusing the word 'obvious'. If by 'obvious', you mean 'there's factual evidence that they are FIRST spammers', then yes, they ALL are obvious. What I'm talking about is just how much the poster wants to defame and exploit themselves.

You see a post:
"Lol"

You see a second post:
"LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
LLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO"

Now I might actually be the only one who thinks this, but the way I see it, the second one is more annoying, more in the way and more insulting to the thread. And all I'm saying is, very, very few members of the community would be willing to go THAT far. But for some reason, nobody else will give this website that much credit. Which is WEIRD, because I really don't love this community, yet I somehow have more faith in it that anyone else.

I've seen plenty of examples where some kind of limit like this is in place and people just spam right through it anyway. If you put in a character limit, they will just say what they want and put random characters in to squeak by the filter.

I know it will never end COMPLETELY. All I'm saying is, if implemented correctly on THIS particular website, it will go down a lot, to the point that it won't be a major problem anymore. And yeah I know "gut feeling blah blah", it's not like there's a scientific study about what will happen.

I think that, if anything, The Escapist should at least try this for a while. And if everyone else is right and I'm wrong, I'll eat a tub of Miracle Whip.

 

[lacktheknack]

Tenth!

And there you go, OP. Someone just tossed themselves in mod wrath's way just to passive-aggressively make a point.

 

[hexFrank202]

Dude, calm the hell down. He posted a whole two minutes after my post. They likely were writing at the same time I was writing and I just beat'em to the punch.

That post wasn't there when I typed. Is it REALLY so incredibly impossible that maybe I walked into the thread three minutes before posting?

Okay, you're right, that's valid. Excuse me. I'm just USED to this happening. There was another thread I had made a while back where it happen over and over again. Really tiresome.

In regards to "You sure do expect this community to be a bunch of assholes for someone who 'has more faith in this community than anyone else'"
Well, yeah! I expect most members of TE to be well-written and have a point to what they're saying, but I'm also used to what they say being contrary to me infinity percent of the time.

In regards to "What YOU said annoyed hundreds of people and now they're just doing stuff to irritate you back."
That I really don't get. I don't see how the original post should make anyone mad unless they're a FIRST connoisseur. Well okay, the edited part probably could, but only if you were planning on... well fine. Guess--according to you--I angered people because I was EXPECTING them to be angry. Okay, I can relate to that.

 

[tippy2k2]

You want to know why you keep seeing the same argument in your thread over and over? You are doing nothing to dispel the argument. I have given you a few reasons why this would still fail and your argument back is "Trust me, the Escapist community would NEVER do such a thing! I'm shocked and hurt that anyone would possibly think that the Escapist might have a few trolls"

Let's go back to my favorite activity, researching my argument! I feel I've already covered by now that just because someone isn't yelling FIRST doesn't mean you are not getting FIRST! posts in our forums. You say the Escapist community would never do such a thing?

Gears of War 3 FIRST! poster has: 4 total posts

Dead Island FIRST! poster has: 9 posts and 28 total posts respectively

Driver FIRST! poster has: 11 total posts

Yes, old, established members would never do such a thing but are you seeing a pattern here? These people are not established members, they are people who are doing it FOR THE LULZ!! or don't realize that this behavior is not acceptable. The people doing it for lulz will not be reasoned with, you take them out and that's the end of it. The other group, however, is savable. That group will continue to think the behavior is acceptable unless you show them otherwise...hence, a warning. Not even a suspension, just a warning, the Escapist saying "This is not acceptable in this establishment".

All your idea is doing is wasting the time of people who might not have a lot to say and is something the trolls can sneak right around. Dare I say it...your arguing DRM for the site. Punish those who are here legitimately while the trolls walk right around it with barely a scratch.