I need help dealing with some new age nutjobs

[Zontar]

I've been dragged into an argument that a friend of mine got into with some new age nutjobs and I need some help.

In this case, they're the "marijuana cures cancer" variety. They claim that, well the title I gave them says it, and they seem to think that there's some conspiracy by "Big Pharma" to keep it down. Now I've already explained why that's logistically and logically impossible, and that all we want to believe them is some evidence that is measurable and objective, but all we keep getting is things like "4000 years of recorded eastern and western history" and "look it up for yourself". Now I've also pointed out that cancer survival rates have tripled over the past 30 years and that it is because of the "poison of modern medicine" that it has happened, but all they shot back with is "you're a shill". Now as much as I wish that where true (I really could use the money), I'm just a skeptical rationalist who needs evidence to believe in something.

So any tips to help? Is there any way I can even BE helped in this situation? And why does the education system allow people like this to even came to pass anyway?

 

[Nikolaz72]

This is either suited for Religions and Politics or the Advice Forum depending on whether you want advice or a discussion out of this. Just a heads up.

 

[Zontar]

This is either suited for Religions and Politics or the Advice Forum depending on whether you want advice or a discussion out of this. Just a heads up.

Well I'm not asking advice in the topical way, and for the discussion of new age believers I've only seen threads taking about them here on the off topic section instead of the R&P one. If the mods feel it should be moved I won't mind, but I thought based on my past experience with this topic it would fit here.

 

[Thaluikhain]

So any tips to help? Is there any way I can even BE helped in this situation?

You could make your argument while on a waterslide?

And why does the education system allow people like this to even came to pass anyway?

I don't see any realistic way of stopping them, no matter what the education system is like. Limiting them, maybe, but there always will be some, and the more you try and inform them, the more they will feel persecuted by The Man.

 

[Itdoesthatsometimes]

I did a lot of digging for this I hope you appreciate it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tod_H._Mikuriya

 

[Zontar]

So any tips to help? Is there any way I can even BE helped in this situation?

You could make your argument while on a waterslide?

Eureka, that's it! With my body's natural resistance to the cold being far greater then that of the norm, any conversation with them in water outside at this time of year will cause them to be unable to counter due to hypothermia!

I did a lot of digging for this I hope you appreciate it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tod_H._Mikuriya

Thanks, this is actually pretty interesting and the information from it will come in handy in this argument, and will probably be used in any future instances where someone brings the subject up.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

So any tips to help? Is there any way I can even BE helped in this situation?

You could make your argument while on a waterslide?

And why does the education system allow people like this to even came to pass anyway?

I don't see any realistic way of stopping them, no matter what the education system is like. Limiting them, maybe, but there always will be some, and the more you try and inform them, the more they will feel persecuted by The Man.

Pretty much this. They didn't reason themselves into this position, they believe in it and are trying to justify that belief. That is, of course, if they do believe in it and aren't just trying to sell something. They've likely heard everything you have to say so you're wasting your breath attempting to correct them.

I could just start with the basic, common sense questions such as "How does smoking reduce cancer?", "Why isn't there an inordinate amount of stoned newly cancer-free people" and "If it did then why isn't the cancer research institute all over it?"

 

[Stu35]

Ignore it.

The worst thing you can do to stupid people is give them the idea their opinion might be valid - by arguing with their opinion, you offer them the possibility that they might win against that argument.


Tell them they're fucking retarded, and move on.

 

[Euryalus]

Short of spending the time to do a paper's grade argument with supporting evidence and citations, it's not really worth your time unless you're really good at pulling a Socrates interragtion. I'd say let it go or just troll them hard by feeding into the conspiracy theories xD

 

[Pinkamena]

Why bother discussing it with them when they obviously have nothing to back up their claims? It's like arguing against creationists. You will gain nothing but high blood pressure.

 

[L. Declis]

Honestly?

There really isn't any way to help them. Even if you did this:

Short of spending the time to do a paper's grade argument with supporting evidence and citations, it's not really worth your time unless you're really good at pulling a Socrates interragtion. I'd say let it go or just troll them hard by feeding into the conspiracy theories xD

They'd just not bother to read it, deny it and expect you to find more sources they won't read or listen to.

Much like any "420YoloSwagNaturalMannnn...." types, they will agree with anything that supports their view, and anything that doesn't is shill-work.

However, you have the advantage of finding some truly stupid people show themselves to be so stupid, and thankfully, the block/ignore button is only a click or two away.

Life is really too short to have arguments with people who won't even consider both sides.

 

[major_chaos]

I just want to say, as someone who supports marijuana legalization for a variety of reasons I doublehate this particular flavor of stupidity because it makes me look bad by proxy and people bring it up when they argue with me. Weed is a largely harmless recreational drug with some medical uses, not ambrosia you dingbats.

 

[Me55enger]

I suspect they'll get the drift in the hopefully unlikely event that a relative of theirs is diagnosed with said cancer.

As many people have already concluded here: Ignorance is bliss. That is, until they take your bliss away.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

There are plenty of people who buy into bullshit, of all sorts. People have their own views and sometimes they want to believe it so bad they blind themselves to everything else around them that points negativewise.
I don't care about people's viewpoints until they get to the "I'm pushing my opinion on you, and you must agree" point. Then we've an issue. Religion, politics, whatever-health-craze-you-think-is-godly, I could give a shit but that takes effort and I'm not putting any into people's bullshit. I've my own views and I'll independently alter them if I find myself to be wrong or mistaken.
Anyway, there's no dealing with them just like there's no way to win an argument with me.

 

[Flutterguy]

"You do know they don't mean smoking pot, right? Breathing in carcinogenic smoke does not prevent cancer. Actually it causes it."

I would say do some research and give an attempt to convince them otherwise, but you'll probably just have to let this one go and not take advice from these people anymore.

 

[Jessta]

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4 < there's some evidence right there.
Really if you just take about 10 minutes to look crap up on the googles you will find loads of objective articles with plenty of evidence supporting them by fairly reputable sources that suggest that marijuana does in fact help TREAT cancer since it reduces the rate of tumor growth and offsets a few of the negatives of chemo, it doesn't cure it though that's an exaggeration, nothing cures it.

That's probably not what you wanted to hear since it seems like you're pretty heavy set on bashing on marijuana though, so in order to continue your argument a few things you could point out would be that marijuana causes brain damage (a bit of an exaggeration but still technically true as studies have shown that long term marijuana abuse does effect the portion of the brain responsible for memory and learning) or you can bring up that smoking in any form can cause lung damage-lung cancer included.

Truth is, Marijuana is a fairly mild thing in either direction, chances are it's not going to destroy anybodies lives if they start doing it (unless they caught) but it's probably not going to be saving any lives either.
The reason people want it legalized so badly is mostly because the law is super bad at handling anything mildly and having your life shit all over by the law because of something stupid and mild like a little bit of pot is ludicrous.

 

[know whan purr tick]

I'd say avoid but if you want to argue, concede the medical benefits and history of medical applications [http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.timeline.php?timelineID=000026].

For cancer treatment, its used to alleviate pain and increase appetite. Chemo can make it hard to eat.

Cure for cancer... that's silly.


Big Pharma pushes marinol, a man-made form of cannibus. There are medicinal plants whose chemicals have been synthesized and patented as a process. There are many caner drugs that are just more expensive (and less effective for different individuals) than using a vaporizer or eating marijuana.

Looking at the history of marijuana criminalization, much of it was founded in propaganda and ties to other industries have been made as well (looking at the uses for hemp too). There is certianly a lot of conspiracy theory in this [http://www.world-mysteries.com/marijuana1.htm], but there are valid points to be found.

Bill Hicks [http://youtu.be/OYT18YtANDk?t=3m45s] for some levity, not really safe for work (drug references, profanity).

 

[Nukekitten]

If they think you're a shill, then anything you might do to try and convince them of your point of view seems likely to be felt on their part as trying to convince them of your point of view not because it's right or true but because you're in on it or you've been tricked.

I'd just say 'whatever' and walk away. I feel like what they'd need convincing of is your rationality and honesty, and that of the medical system you're referencing, rather than being a direct misunderstanding about the claims you're making with respect to cancer. I don't feel like anything you could tell them about the problem would be sufficient to convince them.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

You could try beating your head against a wall, because from the sounds of it continuing the argument would do about as much good. It doesn't sound to me like those "nutjobs" are willing to listen to anything you have to say.