I never died in Dark Souls.

[Ulquiorra4sama]

Seriously, am I the only person on the entire planet who messes around with the buttons to figure out what does what before I start actually digging into the meat of a game?

No.
I thought everyone did that....

All the times I've had to ask that question in the last week or two, you'd be surprised how many people apparently don't.

In a game like Dark Souls that doesn't really have a tutorial beyond the floor messages you're probably supposed to try shit out on your own. I read the messages and then just fucked around with the stuff i'd found. No one told me how to cast fireball when i played a pyromancer, but i equipped my spell, noticing that it was dark when i didn't have the flame equipped. So i equipped the flame (informatively called a Pyromancer's Flame) and suddenly could use my spell. Not exactly rocket science... When did basic self-help and learning drop out of video games?

OT: How many people have we heard claim they only died from cheap shots in Dark Souls by now? I lost count around 80% of anyone who has ever played that game then made an internet thread about it...

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

My end conclusion on Dark Souls was not that it was hard. The moment to moment gameplay is, in fact, quite trivial. The perception of difficulty comes simply because the margin of error remains incredibly slim throughout the experience and, upon encountering something new, chances are good you aren't going to guess what you need to do during the brief window of opportunity.

In fact, therein lies my one complaint with the game. It isn't the difficult or even how it attempts to impart a lesson but rather that, upon failure, I lose tens of minutes of progress. Dragons Dogma, in many ways, seemed to be very much the same game with a very similar difficulty curve in the opening hours. Yet the fact I could save anywhere ensured that I beat the game and still want to go back and play the re-release. Dark Souls on the other hand can rot for all I care.

If nothing else, a game needs to have some respect for my time before I'm willing to commit.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

And this? You do know about this thing called, oh I don't know, a manual? You know the thing that lists all the controls? Or how about the first 10 minutes of the game which is literally just tutorial messages on the ground everywhere telling you the controls?

I feel I have to mention that, with respect to how the game is made, that isn't the worst tutorial system.

On the other hand, it's actually a really terrible tutorial system. They can readily be overlooked and it doesn't actually offer you much context for use.

That said, how you missed the one that tells you how to run is baffling. I seem to recall that was a fairly early one when you ran down that very narrow corridor.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Also the lack of a *real tutorial system* that explains basic mechanics. I don't know where people got this idea if things like how to run, how to cast spells, etc. It makes the game hard, but I find it's quite silly.

...There are signs written all over the floor in the Northern Undead Asylum. Perhaps you could take a minute to slow down and read them. They tell you everything you need to know.

Run around a corner, and get shoot by an arrow from a blind spot that you can't see unless you turn your camera first. Then you fall off a cliff and have to re-do 20 minutes of the game.

Whut...? That's not hard. That's cheap tactics. I hope that Dark Souls 2 moves away from this immature design. Of course this problem could be avoided if we could look around corners. (Which totally should be a thing! If you don't pay attention to your environments. You pay the price!)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, here. You look like you're mocking yourself, which is quite appropriate. The enemies aren't using cheap tactics, you simply failed to be careful. Death happens when you throw caution to the wind.

"Dark Souls wasn't hard, I only died because the game was cheap, not because I wasn't putting in any actual effort! Yeah, it's the game's fault! It's also the game's fault that I failed to bother reading the floor signs that tell me all the basic controls of the game!"

You're blaming the game for any incompetence you show and that, my friend, is you being childish. Not Dark Souls. I'm sorry, but QQ more. Dark Souls isn't difficult nor cheap. Man up and pay attention and you won't get killed by anything "cheap."

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

And this? You do know about this thing called, oh I don't know, a manual? You know the thing that lists all the controls? Or how about the first 10 minutes of the game which is literally just tutorial messages on the ground everywhere telling you the controls?

I feel I have to mention that, with respect to how the game is made, that isn't the worst tutorial system.

On the other hand, it's actually a really terrible tutorial system. They can readily be overlooked and it doesn't actually offer you much context for use.

That said, how you missed the one that tells you how to run is baffling. I seem to recall that was a fairly early one when you ran down that very narrow corridor.

I know, right? And that isn't even taking into account the fact that it flat out says how to sprint in the manual.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

It's actually impossible to finish the game without dying, since you have to be killed by Seath the Scaleless in the Duke's Archives to continue.

Also, have your shield up at all times when you're exploring a new area. You never know what could be round the corner.

Most of the time, when you die, it's completely your fault. Even if it isn't (like the chests that eat you), you know what went wrong and you can learn from it. Dark Souls doesn't make compromises for anyone, so you have to play by its rules and use every advantage to the full.

 

[SlaveNumber23]

Umm... the tutorial (asylum area) explains everything that could be defined as a "basic control/mechanic", you not bothering to read the tutorial messages is not the fault of the game or its developers. The basic controls and mechanics ARE explained, you just didn't listen.

Run around a corner, and get shoot by an arrow from a blind spot that you can't see unless you turn your camera first.

No that's not a "cheap shot" that's you recklessly running around a corner without your guard up and then being punished for your own recklessness. There aren't really any "cheap shots" in Dark Souls, everything can be avoided with enough care and planning.

It seems to me like you are just trying to Rambo through the game and then complaining that it isn't fair. This isn't how the game is intended to be played, you are meant to take it more slowly at first, employ care, strategy and tactics, learn from mistakes. The entire game is a deep learning experience, if you only just learned how to run upon reaching Blighttown, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Evil Smurf]

Weren't the basics and controls explained as soon as you started? I didn't really feel it was cheap but I see where you are coming from. That first encounter with those dragon archers still gives me nightmares

I like that the game forces you to slow down and tread carefully on mysterious grounds and it just feels too darn good to overcome any kind of challenge in that game.

I just quoted you because I love the YouTube show "Let's talk about something more interesting." Millana FTW

Also Dark souls seems a little to tough for my taste. I like not dying at all.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

It's actually impossible to finish the game without dying, since you have to be killed by Seath the Scaleless in the Duke's Archives to continue.

Also, have your shield up at all times when you're exploring a new area. You never know what could be round the corner.

Most of the time, when you die, it's completely your fault. Even if it isn't (like the chests that eat you), you know what went wrong and you can learn from it. Dark Souls doesn't make compromises for anyone, so you have to play by its rules and use every advantage to the full.

You actually don't have to be killed by Seath, at all. If you aim your roll correctly, you can abuse the descending elevator to roll onto a higher floor and skip your first encounter with Seath and the whole prison bit, entirely.

[sub][sub]Not to say your point isn't valid. A normal player won't know(or even think) to try that.[/sub][/sub]

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

My end conclusion on Dark Souls was not that it was hard. The moment to moment gameplay is, in fact, quite trivial. The perception of difficulty comes simply because the margin of error remains incredibly slim throughout the experience and, upon encountering something new, chances are good you aren't going to guess what you need to do during the brief window of opportunity.

In fact, therein lies my one complaint with the game. It isn't the difficult or even how it attempts to impart a lesson but rather that, upon failure, I lose tens of minutes of progress. Dragons Dogma, in many ways, seemed to be very much the same game with a very similar difficulty curve in the opening hours. Yet the fact I could save anywhere ensured that I beat the game and still want to go back and play the re-release. Dark Souls on the other hand can rot for all I care.

If nothing else, a game needs to have some respect for my time before I'm willing to commit.

What would you suggest a player loses to make a loss really hurt then? If not time then some sort of resource? That never tends to work very well to be honest. See the moment you said "I can save anywhere" i immediately lost interest. I can save scum my way through the entire game. Zero challenge at all anywhere since every encounter can be done and redone until i do it flawlessly. I can reload and grind before a boss. I NEVER have to face defeat because (canonically, counting only attempts i continue to play and dont reload) i am the flawless perfect warrior making every ideal move in a godlike fashion. I liked dishonored for example. But quicksave and quickload meant that after giving the no quicksave run a go i could just play the game PERFECTLY to see what would happen in a 100% ideal runthrough. After that i didnt have a lot of replay value.

The savescum tactic is tempting and can potentially ruin any game almost utterly. Sure you can will yourself away from it but if you do youre basically using a darksouls system by choice. The lesson impacted is, to be frank, immensely obvious and im surprised that after reading your own post you dont see it. Losing is a big deal. You lose 10 minutes of progress. You value that. Its important to you. Losing and winning is more intense the higher the stakes. As much as it would be funny to watch a proffessional poker game over a single penny i think we can both agree its far more exciting when its millions of pounds.

 

[PrimitiveJudge]

On Topic: you brag about something that you know it is impossible to do, then reading your post only to find out to are bitching about all your deaths and the lack of patients. However, Master the parry skill, that it fun. Scared to try it on a dark knight or the blue drakes in the valley of drakes.

P.S. What cheapness do you speak of? treat this game like you are in prison. Every corner is a hellish spawn point for brutality.



Off topic: those people that hate fighting Dark Knights, Silver Knight archers, 4 kings, capra demons and Havel the Rock. 4 words: FUCK THE DARKROOT CATS

 

[endtherapture]

I enjoyed dark souls. I didn't think it was particularly unfair or cheap. Blight-town was annoying but I got through it okay. The Capra Demon I beat second time.

Then Anor Londo happened. Fuck those Silver Knight archers. That was what ruined my enjoyment of the game. Overcoming that challenge was not skill, but simply luck. Worst part of the game.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

I do concur in that Dark Souls' 'difficulty' is often given more credit than it deserves. And while the whole, "Dark Souls isn't hard, it's just cheap!" thread is overdone, the tirade of comments defending the game to the hilt(because God forbid it have any flaws) are equally predictable.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I thought I had found my one true love... but it was all a lie. ;_;

That said I don't find Dark Souls too bad but I am an extremely cautious gamer anyway. As soon as I knew what the game wanted from me I was happy enough.

It's hard in that you have to pay attention to what you are doing, also some of the bosses can be nasty. I still love it though.

 

[hazabaza1]

Then Anor Londo happened. Fuck those Silver Knight archers. That was what ruined my enjoyment of the game. Overcoming that challenge was not skill, but simply luck. Worst part of the game.

It's actually fairly simple. Just sprint up to the one on the right, don't stop, and once you get close enough he should take out his sword to hit you and you can parry him so he either falls off the edge or becomes easy to run around.

Also I noticed OP hasn't responded to anything since people corrected him/her so we can probably say that this thread is over.

 

[sethisjimmy]

Most of the deaths you call cheap seem to come from you being careless and running into places you've never been before. Also, I'm pretty sure basic mechanics are explained fairly well. In fact I'm pretty much 95% sure the tutorial does in fact tell you how to run. As for how to cast spells? I never had a problem with knowing how, I assumed it wasn't explained because it was obvious. You just press the attack button.

However Dark Souls does have a problem with a lot of under-the-hood rpg mechanics. I learned the hard way that the resistance stat is almost utterly useless for all intents and purposes. It tells you the basic use of each stat and item, but not exactly how or how much it will effect you. That can be pretty annoying, having to constantly check the wiki to know what stat does what, etc.

I used to think Dark Souls was cheap at first too, but after a while you realize you can cut down on probably 80% of your deaths just by being vigilant and careful as you're exploring.

 

[endtherapture]

Then Anor Londo happened. Fuck those Silver Knight archers. That was what ruined my enjoyment of the game. Overcoming that challenge was not skill, but simply luck. Worst part of the game.

It's actually fairly simple. Just sprint up to the one on the right, don't stop, and once you get close enough he should take out his sword to hit you and you can parry him so he either falls off the edge or becomes easy to run around.

Also I noticed OP hasn't responded to anything since people corrected him/her so we can probably say that this thread is over.

That's what everyone said, even my Dark Souls veteran friends. "It's easy, just run up and parry them" So I got them to do it. They tried it, forgot how hard it was, and ended up dying multiple times trying to do this bit.

You run up. If you get hit by one arrow that's it, you fall off the entire ledge. Game over.

This bit was fucking awful design. It's your first encounter with Silver Knights, so you can't practise parrying them. Your first oppurtunity to parry them is on this tiny little ledge, and if you're hit, you die. Then you have to do the whole section again. It's just grating having to turn the fucking wheel to move the bridge to get up to the right level.

I eventually did it but I never played Dark Souls after that because it left such a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[hazabaza1]

Then Anor Londo happened. Fuck those Silver Knight archers. That was what ruined my enjoyment of the game. Overcoming that challenge was not skill, but simply luck. Worst part of the game.

It's actually fairly simple. Just sprint up to the one on the right, don't stop, and once you get close enough he should take out his sword to hit you and you can parry him so he either falls off the edge or becomes easy to run around.

Also I noticed OP hasn't responded to anything since people corrected him/her so we can probably say that this thread is over.

That's what everyone said, even my Dark Souls veteran friends. "It's easy, just run up and parry them" So I got them to do it. They tried it, forgot how hard it was, and ended up dying multiple times trying to do this bit.

You run up. If you get hit by one arrow that's it, you fall off the entire ledge. Game over.

This bit was fucking awful design. It's your first encounter with Silver Knights, so you can't practise parrying them. Your first oppurtunity to parry them is on this tiny little ledge, and if you're hit, you die. Then you have to do the whole section again. It's just grating having to turn the fucking wheel to move the bridge to get up to the right level.

I eventually did it but I never played Dark Souls after that because it left such a sour taste in my mouth.

Honestly if your friends are veterans but can't dodge the arrows then I think they just kinda suck. They're fairly easy to run past or dodge so long as you're not wearing heavy armour.

But I will agree that it was dumb design to have that be the first Silver Knight encounter. Even an optional place to fight one would be convenient.

 

[endtherapture]

Honestly if your friends are veterans but can't dodge the arrows then I think they just kinda suck. They're fairly easy to run past or dodge so long as you're not wearing heavy armour.

But I will agree that it was dumb design to have that be the first Silver Knight encounter. Even an optional place to fight one would be convenient.

The ridiculously small ledge space means that if you're unlucky, the Silver Knight to the right, with a lucky arrow, can just knock you off, even if you're blocking with a shield. 1 hit kill. Please repeat entire section.

The fact is, however easy or hard it's supposed to be, I haven't played the game since that section. Was going through it at a fast pace beforehand, then that happened.