I shall now say unkind things about Dark Souls.

[Zhukov]

First however, I shall say some nice things in a futile attempt to take the edge off the ensuing rage and accusations of casual-ness.

I like Dark Souls. Or rather, I really, really want to like it. It's an action-adventure game with RPG elements that forces me to use every one of the meagre resources at my disposal to beat it. It features a solid combat system that forces you to stay on your toes. It should be right up my ally.

However, I have one major problem with it. The developers somehow managed to confuse the notion of "providing a challenge" with "wasting my fucking time".

See, Dark Souls has two flavours of gameplay. First, there's your boss and mini-boss fights against unique enemies. These are fun and generally pretty hard, which is cool since that's exactly what was advertised.

Then there is... the rest. This consists of fighting respawning generic enemies while exploring the levels. These are not so hard. They can kill you if you don't pay attention but once you've got the combat figured out you'll be carving through them with relative ease. Hold down block, bait them into attacking, retaliate. Rinse and repeat.

The problem is that there are always a significant amount of the respawning filler enemies between the boss fights and the nearest checkpoint. So every time you die to a boss - and chances are this will happen a lot - you get to hack your way through an identical sequence of
mooks. Every. Fucking. Time.

Get killed by Capra Demon. Respawn. Cross bridge and fight four soldiers. (Yawn.) Go down stairs and fight three dogs. (Stretch.) Fight four thieves. (Wonder how long it's been since you cleaned the bathroom.) Fight three more thieves and two more dogs. (Yawn again.) Get to Capra Demon. (Finally!) Get killed by Capra Demon. Respawn. Cross bridge and fight four soldiers. (Yawn.) Go down stairs and fight three... yeah, you get the point.

This is not fun. It's tedious.
This is not a challenge. It's shit design.
This is not "hardcore". It's just cheap padding via poor checkpoint placement.

Hell, they might as well have just put ten minute unskippable cutscenes in front of all the bosses. At least that way I could mitigate the blatant waste of my time by making myself a sandwich or picking up a book.

My other complaint is that the game looks like... well, like crap. At first I thought this was just due to me being accustomed to glorious 2550x1440 PC graphics, but then Journey came along and showed me that console games can look gorgeous too. Dark Souls just has bad visual design. Grey-green sludgy environments populated by nondescript grey-green enemies. Even the backgrounds are bad. I fear I might sneer myself inside-out the next time I find a message saying "lovely view" in front of a blurry green carpet masquerading as a forest underneath some blurry grey clouds.

So that's my Dark Souls experience. I want to get along with it, but it's ugly and seems to take great pleasure in wasting my time. It's like an ex-girlfriend in video game form.

 

[AJax_21]

This is gonna be interesting.

Then there is... the rest. This consists of fighting respawning generic enemies while exploring the levels. These are not so hard. They can kill you if you don't pay attention but once you've got the combat figured out you'll be carving through them with relative ease. Hold down block, bait them into attacking, retaliate. Rinse and repeat.

The problem is that there are always a significant amount of the respawning filler enemies between the boss fights and the nearest checkpoint. So every time you die to a boss - and chances are this will happen a lot - you get to hack your way through an identical sequence of
mooks. Every. Fucking. Time.

Then please for the love of god don't play Demon's Souls because that game was much worse in that regard. You see, at least in Dark Souls, it gives you alternate paths and shortcuts straight to the boss fights to help decrease the frustration. Also, you say it's tedious. I say it's a rather effective design decision that adds tension and forces to be at the top of your game. Is it frustrating as shit lose 30 minutes of progress because of one asshole undead soldier attacked from a cheap angle? Oh yes it most definitely is but I still understand the decision to design the checkpoint system the way it is.

My other complaint is that the game looks like... well, like crap. At first I thought this was just due to me being accustomed to glorious 2550x1440 PC graphics, but then Journey came along and showed me that console games can look gorgeous too. Dark Souls just has bad visual design. Grey-green sludgy environments populated by nondescript grey-green enemies. Even the backgrounds are bad. I fear I might sneer myself inside-out the next time I find a message saying "lovely view" in front of a blurry green carpet masquerading as a forest underneath some blurry grey clouds.

I don't think that comparison is fair because you're comparing two games with extremely different visual and art designs. One is gritty medieval fantasy, the other is cell shaded middle-eastern. Both games greatly accomplish what set out to do with the tone with the combination of visual design. Journey's bright and colorful art design complements well the theme of companionship and introspection while Dark Souls' design complement the harshness, insanity and the isolation of the world it inhabits.

Some of the textures in some places do look low resolution and poor. That I can't disagree with.

Ok... that was a bit rambly...

 

[RJ 17]

Dark Souls is Boring and Bland.

I just thought the game was stupid from the git-go. I don't mind a game being so hard that it assures you that you'll die over and over again (i.e. Ninja Gaiden), but like you I found the game to be less "challenging" and more "quit slamming your cock in the door, you're scaring the children."

Or as you put it, it becomes tedious.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also, you say it's tedious. I say it's a rather effective design decision that adds tension and forces to be at the top of your game. Is it frustrating as shit lose 30 minutes of progress because of one asshole undead soldier attacked from a cheap angle? Oh yes it most definitely is but I still understand the decision to design the checkpoint system the way it is.

Respawning trash is not an elegant method through which to add tension. It's just gratuitous time sinking.

In fact, checkpoint systems in general are archaic game design, and I've never heard a single compelling argument to justify their existence once the technology limits were done away with.

 

[Nfritzappa]

You have some very valid points OP... however, I can't put the controller down for this game D:

 

[Skin]

Your not wrong about the "rinse and repeat" way of doing things. As much as I love the game, there are parts that make me want to rip my eyes eye simply due to horrible design choices (Stray Demon, Dragons legs). However, things are only tedious for you right now because... well... your bad. Once you finish the game, you will be running and slicing through these filler enemies like its nothing, infact, I doubt you will even bother to fight them at all since they are just fodder anyway.

The combat has much greater depth to it than what you first see, and it is really unfortunate that the only time this really comes into play is PvP (which itself is horribly unbalanced).. The best fights in this game were not against huge giant telegraphing beasts, but against the man-sized enemies like yourself (Oscar of Astora is the best fight in the game IMO).

Your not wrong at all Zhuk. This game is not for everyone. I myself have alot of gripes with the game, but I absolutely adore it.

 

[The Wykydtron]

God the fucking crap checkpoint placement almost singlehandedly ruined the game for me... I had to put the game down for about 5 months before I even got through the Parish

Oh and you know the other massive problem? The fact that the world map is littered with high level areas literally one door away from Baby's First Dungeon.

Beat the Blighttown boss? Great! Now don't get too curious about what's down that next corridor or you'll get instakilled by motherfucking Ceaseless Discharge and lose an unholy amount of souls!

Wonder what's that two feet away from the Safe Zone? Instakilled by bullshit skeleton warriors.

The map is fucked.

Oh and I don't mind the challenge when it's actually fair. The people who say every death is fair are talking out of their collective assholes. Snipers. Anor Londo. Fuck!

Though that first Mimic in Sen's Fortress was so random, so obviously going to kill you first time through and so hilarious I had to forgive the lovable scamp. Even if he did waste about 20 minutes of my time.


By the way OP how far did you get? I'm surprised I even made it past Blighttown to be honest nevermind Anor Londo. So many bosses are actually kinda easy. The Gaping Dragon is just a failure in every single respect and that giant golem thing just before Anor Londo can't do shit if you just stay right under him and stab him in the dick multiple times.

 

[Squidbulb]

I agree. I've shown I can do this stuff already, don't make me do it again. I'll lose focus and slip up eventually as I try to find a way to get past faster. Just let me get back to the boss fight.

 

[Zhukov]

There is also generally you can unlock a shortcut to every single boss so you only need to kill a couple groups of enemies if you die.

You see, at least in Dark Souls, it gives you alternate paths and shortcuts straight to the boss fights to help decrease the frustration.

I am aware of the shortcuts and my Capra Demon example took them into account.

My problem is with having to repeat a bunch of easy/moderate fights in order to take another swing at the interesting ones.

Also, you say it's tedious. I say it's a rather effective design decision that adds tension and forces to be at the top of your game.

The game is effectively saying, "If this boss kills you, I will waste ten minutes of your time before letting you try again." It's just like having a long pre-boss unskippable cutscene.

That doesn't make me tense due to a raising of the stakes. It just makes me want to head-butt the designer (unless he's a big chap, in which case I would content myself with yelling at him from a distance).

By the way OP how far did you get? I'm surprised I even made it past Blighttown to be honest nevermind Anor Londo. So many bosses are actually kinda easy. The Gaping Dragon is just a failure in every single respect and that giant golem thing just before Anor Londo can't do shit if you just stay right under him and stab him in the dick multiple times.

Not very far. I only got it recently and I haven't had much time with the game.

I've cleared the Undead Burg and the Parish. Killed the demon on the wall, the bell tower gargoyles and the capra demon. Also, the various mini-bosses. The black knights, the boar, the knight in the chapel and the one-legged, limping lightening demon... thing. Also got the drake's tail off.

I haven't gone downwards from the starting area yet and I haven't explored that green swampy area next to the parish.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

You have missed a shortcut to the first bonfire. The game really rewards exploration in that way. I made the same mistake as you at first and did the run you decribe like twice. From the first bonfire you only have to kill 4 mobs to get to the demon two of which have their back to you.

I took the approach that souls were just a by product of what I was doing and not to get so het up if I lost a few. Once you make yourself relax on that front it get's a bit more tolerable.

I can tell you where the shortcut is if you want I just didn't want to ruin it for you outright.

 

[daveman247]

snip

Sounds like its not your kind of game. Fair enough, but you should have known what you were getting into


And the graphics are fine, not the best but certainly not bad. AND i thought the enemies were pretty cool in design

 

[daveman247]

Beat the Blighttown boss? Great! Now don't get too curious about what's down that next corridor or you'll get instakilled by motherfucking Ceaseless Discharge and lose an unholy amount of souls!

haha that took me by surprise too. Luckily i found a glitch and killed it in two seconds

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Sounds like its not your kind of game. Fair enough, but you should have known what you were getting into


And the graphics are fine, not the best but certainly not bad. AND i thought the enemies were pretty cool in design

Yeah I really love the design of the game it's kind of fantasy mixed with photorealism and looks great.

 

[Zhukov]

snip

I can tell you where the shortcut is if you want I just didn't want to ruin it for you outright.

It's okay, I think I know the one you mean. It goes past the lady selling moss, right?

The loss of souls doesn't bother me at all. I actually think it's a cool mechanic and I rarely carry more than necessary.

snip

Sounds like its not your kind of game. Fair enough, but you should have known what you were getting into

"It's not your kind of game" is no excuse for bad design.

Thing is, apart from the total lack of story, it's exactly my kind of game.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I can tell you where the shortcut is if you want I just didn't want to ruin it for you outright.

It's okay, I think I know the one you mean. It goes past the lady selling moss, right?

The loss of souls doesn't bother me at all. I actually think it's a cool mechanic and I rarely carry more than necessary.

snip

Sounds like its not your kind of game. Fair enough, but you should have known what you were getting into

"It's not your kind of game" is no excuse for bad design.

Thing is, apart from the total lack of story, it's exactly my kind of game.

Yeah that's where I meant. You can get to it before you fight the demon.

Actually I found out that it has a very deep story you just have to look for it. Different actions can determine the fate of different NPC's and there is also an entirely different ending to the game.

It's probably more accurate to say it has 'lore' than storyline but it's definitely there.

Stick to it bud I think you will grow to realise there is more to it as you progress as I did. There is a lot of trash and apparently they are even worse in NG+ (with damage not numbers of mobs) I am amongst those that thought taking all the trash mobs out of WOW end game kind of damaged it though so I'm not sure how to feel about it here.

 

[daveman247]

Yeah I really love the design of the game it's kind of fantasy mixed with photorealism and looks great.

Yeah i like how EVERYTHING looks evil. Which fits the story i made up for the game (since i was a bit lost on what as actually happening.)

Am i on the right lines thinking your character is exploring hell? Everything wants to kill you, yet you cant die. And your "hollow". The idea fits i think.