I Think I've Reached A Boiling Point When It Comes To Social Justice

[Ickorus]

I feel the same way, I genuinely care about a lot of the issues that people bring up on this forum but I disagree on such a fundamental level with the methods employed and many of the arguments used that I can't help but line myself up against them because I honestly think they will do nothing but damage both the movement and the gaming community as a whole.

I mean, there is so much good that already exists and I wish people would focus on supporting and building these up in a positive manner than the current attitude of tearing things down and making examples of people regardless of any good those people have done in the past.

I've already seen it happen and I'm sure it will get worse in future if things stay on the current path but people are increasingly just giving up on social justice as a whole because of the huge minefield that people have to navigate whenever they get involved in anything remotely social justice related. (And this is multiplied for any public figures)

I'm so so tired of it all, I wish I could just go away and forget about all of it..

 

[dragonswarrior]

snip

The way I've always looked at it is this:

These things make one angry. REALLY angry. And most people who identify as Social Justice... whatever get a ton of shit from all corners all the time and ya know... It's frustrating. It's incredibly frustrating. And a lot of the time that frustration boils over when you're trying to talk to people that are normally very intelligent, but refuse to listen to you because the points you are making interrupt their very comfortable privileged view of the world.

Now, it also sounds like you're listening to some crazies. But even the crazies I forgive, because they're just angry. I don't think they're helping matters much at all, but I also don't hold it against them.

And there are also a lot of people out there that are easy to dismiss as crazy at first, until you actually LISTEN to them. Then you realize that they're making some really good points.

And I speak of all of this from personal experience. I used to be REALLY against social justice extremes. Then my much smarter partner dragged me kicking and screaming into the proverbial social justice light. It was painful, but I'm better for it. Now I'm trying to do the same thing with my brother, and it's painful and frustrating, but it's still worth it.

I would just say don't give up. I got INSANELY lucky, in that I had someone who loved me enough to take the time to educate me, despite how painful and frustrating it was for both of us. If you don't have someone like that, I can only urge you to keep listening, keep learning, don't shut down, don't shut them out just because they're angry...

Because they're angry for a reason. And it's a very important reason. And it's worth learning about.

 

[Callate]

I sympathize. Even with some general points of view I'd like to side with, there's a lot of unquestioned dogma and a sense of a narrative that brooks no dissent. There are people who seem to think that learning a kind of lingo means they no longer have to give things consideration, that it means some nebulous "smarter people" have done all the required thinking for them.

Wish I could give you a simple answer.

 

[SirDerpy]

snip

I've sort of adjusted to it in the same way one adjusts to losing a limb. Normally I roll my eyes at these kind of people who consitently whine about everything while innocents in 3rd world countries are slaughtered.

"THE WOMENZ IN DA VIDEOGAEMZ!!!"
"There are people in the world who lack the money, computers, electricity, and housing, to buy videogames. Go help them instead."
"DA WOMENZ IN DA VIDEOGAEMZ!!"

It's like talking to someone with say....a heavily ingrained concept of FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS. And that's all it comes down to really, once you cut through all the kool aid indoctrination on the level of fanaticlly religious.

Well, sure, the example you provided was pretty unimportant, but overall, there are indeed problems that need to be addressed in today's society. I don't follow these things myself, but from what I've read and seen here and there, it seems like gender inequality is still a thing. Thus, it needs to be solved. While women in video games might be a small thing way overblown by the gaming community (I'm too ignorant to make a real statement on this), it might also be a legitimate small step towards gender equality overall, which is definitely a good thing.

The excuse "But starving kids in Africa! Ain't nobody got time for racial equality in the US!" wouldn't have worked in the 1950s, and it doesn't work now with regards to more modern issues. Just because they are first world problems, doesn't mean that they aren't problems that demand resolution.

 

[norashepard]

It can be tiring and frustrating, but as both a trans person and someone with mental illness, I would much rather fight people on this than shut up. If you want the arguments to stop, help change things for the better! Don't just say "I support such and such" but remain unchanged. Actively change your lifestyle/buying habits/language/whatever to be more inclusive or supportive. Examine your opinions and recognize the harmful ones and work to remove them. Then when people who talk too much annoy you, you don't have to feel bad or be frustrated because guess what: you're actually doing more than talking!

If you can't do that, you can educate yourself. There are MANY feminist/socially conscious resources not written by people too galvanized to be polite that you could read. You literally just have to look. If something seems too angry, just move on to the next one. Simple solution!

By doing either thing, you will become more experienced on the topic itself and be able to recognize the most common arguments (on both sides) used by those who don't know what they're talking about. Once you can do this, you can ignore those people, or better yet, turn them to the same resources that helped you learn. The important part is learning to recognize that most of these people who get so angry on the internet aren't actually experts on the topic and are just repeating what they heard elsewhere. They don't want to hurt anyone, or make anyone mad (if they do, they're assholes), they're just going through the same process we all do when presented with information we don't like. The internet just lets them vent about it far sooner than they should.

 

[BreakfastMan]

No, not really. It isn't the social justice talk that pisses me off. It is how the community that has reacted to it that has pissed me off. I have nearly receded completely from interacting with the gaming community because I am so fed up and disgusted with their reaction to people daring to criticize games and talk about problems with representation. Console wars and the like are bad enough, but bringing that bullshit to stuff that actually matters? I can't stand it.

 

[Vault101]

you know...if it hurts you that much you could just...not click there

Anyone else starting to feel this way?

yes but the oposite

its a coursel that I've been around on so many times, the same non-arguments the same thing that boils down to [b/]I think this is unimportant so I will put an insane amount of effort into arguing that fact[/b]

[spoiler/][img/]http://wileywitch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/232001_original.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I never let myself give a fuck about anyone or anything that does not immediately affect the people I love, because why feel angry, miserable and frustrated the entire bloody time? It's also half the reason I don't read much news anymore. Chances are it will never affect my life in any way and I'd be a lot happier spending my day without constantly being reminded about some horrific event happening in a place I will never see to people I will never meet.

Ignorance is bliss, is the term I think I'm searching for. To a point, obviously. It's also important to know what's going on in the world, but not to get invested in the entire world's problems to a point such as where you have reached where it's starting to affect you emotionally and mentally.

That is exactly why I've had to close my own heart off to my friends. To the people I care for. I practically have to throw a disclaimer down to say "Don't tell me your sad pasts until I'm ready for it, if I ever even am ready for it." I have heard of so much crap, reading and listening about it, that I got full blown deeply depressed for a short time because of it. A week sounds like nothing to anyone, but for me, a person who feeds off of my own positive outlook on situations of any kind, it was un-heard of. It was a state I never want to return to.

I have to remain ignorant for the sake of my own sanity because of how fucked the world is. And yet, somehow, I always attract friends with a history I don't want to hear. Nothing makes me feel more angry, isolated, alone for being blessed with a good childhood and family, only to see that nobody else in the world seems to share my own luck, grateful to it as I may be.

I've been alone with my own thoughts for years. It's already turned into something that I cast aside when I don't want to think about it, so that I can worry about my own life. I don't want to think about the rest of the world. The world is a hell hole that I have slowly come to despise. My own life is all that I need to think about it. And it's going great... So the rest of the world be damned! Sort yourselves out! I don't care how! Just DO IT! I want to see the world become a better place too. I'm doing what I can, but it's nothing... It's nothing in the eyes of the world itself.

[Note for replies: That disclaimer I talked about at the start applies here too. Please be considerate if you respond]

 

[Something Amyss]

See, here's the thing. I wouldn't use Tumblr as indicative of any group. Except Tumblr users. Everyone hates it, and everyone uses it as an example of the worst of X group's behaviour. But if you look at dudes on Tumblr, then feminist complaints don't seem like a reach, so unless you're willing to say that men are all serial rapist scum, why would you deride the notion of "not all feminists?"

People selectively pick up individual Tumblr accounts, try and paint the whole group with a broad brush, and then treat it as indicative. Of both Tumblr and the larger group. And that's inane.

I see people bitching about it more than I actually see people who act like "social justice warriors," whatever that even means.

I'm convinced it's a bunch of people all riled up over the same four Tumblr accounts, half of which may or may not be proof of Poe's Law.

And whatever Social Justice Warrior is intended to mean, what it means is "people who think different than me." I've been called one for pointing out factual, even numerical errors. The latter made me the "worst kind" of social justice warrior: apparently, the ability to read numbers is devastating to non-SJWs.

You forgot porn.

I don't care what justifications those guys and gals use, it's not "artsy", it's porn.

Ah, yes. 80% of the images I find on Google in my porn legitimate research searches come from Tumblr.

Honestly, my porn legitimate research is the primary interaction I have with Tumblr. Until people start ranting, I get curious, and I find out they're being exceedingly hyperbolic.

 

[Charli]

There are days I care, there are day where my convictions keep me feeling really enraged at some of the things said online.


But then there are days where I have to subscribe to my tried and true mental wellness exercise.

(Warning: some vulgarity)


Seriously, try giving at least 80% less of a fuck. You'll feel a bit better. Fight the battles on days you feel you can. Otherwise It's so cripplingly distressing sometimes. Walk away from the internet and just calm it down, and remember that they only say it because they think there are no repercussions for it online. In reality? All cowards. The lot of em.

 

[jademunky]

Can't scroll down Tumblr without seeing "feminists" calling for the death of all men, or telling male rape victims that they had to have enjoyed it because they are men and they can never say no to sex, or make fun of guys for saying "not all men" but when you bring up the former points they proclaim "not all feminists".

Okay, this is a new one to me. I have never, in my 32 years, found a single person on the internet or real life who has ever expressed this sentiment. Not one. Ever. While I have no doubt that if you start lifting rocks over the more pathetic corners of the internet you might find such people crawling about but even so, you really need to make an effort of it. If you just go around looking for something to be offended about, you will inevitably find it.

Also, my mom had for years chaired the social justice committee at her church. You might want to take a look at the roots of the term and what it's practitioners actually believe. (hint: it mostly involves finding ways to help the destitute)

 

[Signa]

You and me both OP. I wanted to care, but I stopped a long time ago. The one thing no one understands is you can't force cultural change, and yelling about it just is just as good as screaming at a wall.

No one wants to admit that they aren't the next Rosa Parks, so everyone just keeps pushing their opinion of these situations without any regard to the damage they are doing to their own arguments by being an asshole.

 

[lacktheknack]

It's started happening to me as well, deserved or not.

At this point, it's easier to just put in some damn good music and play Town of Salem until the annoyance stops.

 

[beastro]

Welcome to growing up and becoming aware of all those younger than you desperately trying to change the future misguidedly trying to make it better.

And on top of that realizing you live in an age where certain bigots have found that they're prejudices are socially acceptable and are exploiting it to it's fullest.

 

[Gorrila_thinktank]

-Snip-

Hey Wraith,

No, I do feel like that. Often.

It sucks right?

I used to be big into Men's Issues; about as big as a 22 year old Fine Arts student could be at a little liberal Uni out in the middle of nowhere. I burned out for a long time last year on the whole SJW thing because I got to a point where I was like "so what? No one even cares."

But, if I'm reading you right you still do care about social justice issues. I don?t think you?d feel this way if some part of you didn't still care. So I want to encourage you.

Did you ever read the Velveteen Rabbit? That one part about 'being real' is endlessly quotable:

'You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand.?

Please, don't give up on issues of Social Justice. We all still need you.

We are all going to get it wrong. We are going to get it wrong over and over again. But if we let that stop us we?re never going to get it right.

Please, try not to worry about what people on the internet say. They don't know you, as either an internet personality or as a real person.

Be gentle with them, and be gentle with yourself. You're too important to tap out this early on.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

So many people disappointed with "social justice", wow.
Did anybody complaining about social justice here actually fight for something, or are we just talking about internet forums?

 

[BlumiereBleck]

I see it a lot too. But there is something that makes me feel better about it every time. This image helps me out and it will help you too.
http://i.imgur.com/Nen7F2s.png