I think this is why we need the Ouya...

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dreadedcandiru99

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In short: console games cost too damn much to make [http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/07/02/the-rise-of-costs-the-fall-of-gaming/].

In less short: console gaming is caught in a vicious circle. The major developers are stuck in this trend where they have to make games more like movies, with better and better graphics, and that means progressively higher costs for increasingly mediocre products.

According to that blog post I found, triple-A games and movies now have this much in common: they're about as expensive to produce. Hell, a lot of games cost upwards of $100 million at this point. It's becoming correspondingly harder for games to turn a profit; they have to at least break even within three to four weeks of release at the full $60 price, and more often than not, they don't. That's why, for example, Dead Space 3 needs to sell five million copies to keep the franchise alive [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-15-ea-aiming-for-5-million-sold-with-dead-space-3] (spoiler alert: Dead Space 1 and 2 didn't sell that many copies combined).

Games cost more and more, which means they need to sell better and better, and to do that, they need to have a "broad audience" [http://www.destructoid.com/ea-wants-dead-space-3-to-appeal-to-a-broad-audience-229567.phtml]. Translation: "We're not taking any chances. We're not going to try anything that's too 'innovative' or 'out there.' We can't fucking afford to. That might scare off the masses."

So, unless the industry crashes again, that's what we have to look forward to: a future filled with ludicrously expensive triple-A console games that all play the same, where nobody who doesn't have a budget in the hundreds of millions can get a foot in the door.

I bet a console that anybody can afford to develop for [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console] would come in handy right about now.
 

WinstonJEC

I play minecraft... alot
Sep 8, 2010
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I agree, but my only complaint is will this console get some pretty big title games? Or will I be playing some mediocre indie games developed originally for phones. I won't buy one on launch unless I see what will be ready for download on release day. I'm excited but skeptical.
 

MisterShine

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Mar 9, 2010
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dreadedcandiru99 said:
I bet a console that anybody can afford to develop for [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console] would come in handy right about now.
PC's are just that thing.

Not that I'm opposed to Ouya, mind you. I just haven't yet seen the reason we really need it yet, or what benefits to the market it really provides, so I'm not ready to hop on the hype train.

edit: After reading the Kickstarter page again, I shall upgrade my stance from Expectant Neutrality to Cautious Optimism.
 

Bad Jim

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Nov 1, 2010
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There is an indie scene. You can buy AAA quality games with broad appeal, or you can have indie games that are experimental or have niche appeal.

What you can't have is experimental/niche games done to AAA quality. That is because there aren't enough people who want them. I think you are expecting the AAA market to make experimental/niche games based on the fact that they used to. But none of those games were made to current AAA standards. They were made to old AAA standards, which were more like current indie standards. The budget for Braid was in the same ballpark as Baldurs Gate.

I don't think there are less innovative games. I just think the mainstream games have moved ahead of them in terms of polish.

Powerful hardware is a blessing rather than a curse even for low budget games. A great deal of work was done to make old games run on slow hardware. A 2d platform game in the early nineties used a great many tricks and specialised hardware, which is completely unnecessary in modern remakes. Designers used to lie awake at night worrying about what would happen if more than 5 monsters appeared on screen, which modern devs don't have to worry about unless they are AAA devs and the monsters have a million polys each.

Programming languages have a tradeoff between speed and programmer productivity. C is pretty fast and Haskell is pretty slow. But Haskell does a lot of the thinking for you, allowing you to code quickly and with few bugs. C makes you do all the work, giving you total control so you can write fast code, but it takes a long time and there are many ways to screw up.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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Did we ever ask for big, Hollywood blockbuster type experiences? Personally if I wanted a cinematic experience I'd just watch a film. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe games can be an excellent storytelling medium; I just think they make terrible movies.
 

Rawne1980

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Dead Space 3 needs to sell five million copies to keep the franchise alive
I keep seeing that around.

If Dead Space 3 manages to sell 3 million copies I will plait my own piss.

If it manages to sell 5 million i'll sodding drink that plait.
 

ChildishLegacy

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Apr 16, 2010
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What's wrong with developing cheap games for PC? That's a much larger potential audience than an open source console because most people already have one and not that many people will buy a console solely for open source, free games, because you have to dredge through seas of mediocrity to find those precious few gems that are good indie games.

I doubt Dungeons of Dredmor/Binding of Isaac/Super Meat Boy/Braid/Trine/Payday... etc. etc. needed to sell 5 million copies to keep themselves going, yet they're all considered quite successful games on the PC (mainly through steam).

I just don't see why we need a Ouya in the gaming scene at all when any cheap PC can run the same standard of games.
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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And the ESA wants people to believe piracy is killing the industry. Ha! Their own bloated budgets are killing it.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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Witty Name Here said:
MisterShine said:
PC's are just that thing.
Erm... Aren't PCs incredibly expensive? Why should I pay for, essentially, an Xbox AND a PS3 just for one computer that I'll have to update every... Two years or so.
I became a PC gamer partly because it was cheaper just to get a computer that could game than it was to get a computer AND a console. This was pre-built, too, I was too naive to believe that building one is relatively easy and can save you a fairly substantial amount of money. And you don't have to upgrade anywhere near that much, games haven't gotten all that much more demanding in several years. My PC is relatively recent but several people I know are still using machines from five years ago.

Just because new components are released frequently doesn't mean we need to buy them all.
 

Windcaler

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Nov 7, 2010
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Theres one and only one reason that I can get behind the ouya at this point. It brings more competition to the market and competition is always a good thing.

As to the rest of it, Im just not sure who the thing is for. I dont really understand what customer they're aiming at nor do I understand their business model.

Now the thing is anyone can already develop for the PC. Thats why you see most indie developers making games for the PC. Just about anyone can make a port to the PS3 and XBOX so Im unsure that thats really a bonus to the ouya. On that note, are we sure that theres not going to be some infamous certification process that the current consoles have?
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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We need Ouya to do the same thing PC's can do? When will people realize that all you need is a fuckin' PC? IT DOES EVERYTHING! These Ouya developers think they're some kind of revolutionaries. They are making a console that is less powerful than regular consoles, can't play most games regular consoles play, and it's less powerful than a 7 year old PC. It also does far less than a 7 year old PC. What.The.Fuck!

And their statement is ridiculous. "Oh, we love gaming on television". Then hook up your PC to a TV, *****. It's not rocket science for fuck sake.

This is not going to appeal to console crowd. Console crowd wants AAA titles. Just look at that thread about what kind of games people are expecting from this thing. Skyrim? On an Android based console without a discreet GPU? And why the fuck would PC gamers get one of these? Why would anyone buy this to play games they can play on their PC? I give up on humanity. People will pay for anything these days on Kickstarter. They don't even think about what they're paying for. Just like that feminist chick. Case.In.Point.

And no, PC isn't expensive. Even if you pay a $1000 for a PC, it's still cheaper than console gaming. Just look at these Steam sales. For a $100 you can get the amount of games that would certainly cost you around $600 or more on a console.
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
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Their slogan is dumb. "The revolution will be televised"? You can hook up a PC to a TV...
But I see no reason to be against this. I won't donate, but I won't criticize others for donating or try to dissuade others from donating.

That's the thing I really don't get: Why are some people so dead set against this, and other Kickstarters for that matter. Barring flat-out fraud, there's nothing to get upset about. "But they are taking people's money!" Yeah...five to 20 dollars for most people. Geez, what a tragic loss for those individuals if the project doesn't pan out....
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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dreadedcandiru99 said:
, Dead Space 3 needs to sell five million copies to keep the franchise alive [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-15-ea-aiming-for-5-million-sold-with-dead-space-3] (spoiler alert: Dead Space 1 and 2 didn't sell that many copies combined).
.
while I get what your saying I think that in particular is EA being the greedy shitheads EA are...saying rediculous things like that

it seems as far as they are concerned its COD or nothing

personally? I game for the AAA experience, the fact is gaming now and then are two different beasts, the industry is big...this is what happens

the ouya is probably a good thing but I'm not interested
 

J. Mazarin

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Jun 25, 2012
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Adam Jensen said:
We need Ouya to do the same thing PC's can do? When will people realize that all you need is a fuckin' PC? IT DOES EVERYTHING! These Ouya developers think they're some kind of revolutionaries. They are making a console that is less powerful than regular consoles, can't play most games regular consoles play, and it's less powerful than a 7 year old PC. It also does far less than a 7 year old PC. What.The.Fuck!

And their statement is ridiculous. "Oh, we love gaming on television". Then hook up your PC to a TV, *****. It's not rocket science for fuck sake.

This is not going to appeal to console crowd. Console crowd wants AAA titles. Just look at that thread about what kind of games people are expecting from this thing. Skyrim? On an Android based console without a discreet GPU? And why the fuck would PC gamers get one of these? Why would anyone buy this to play games they can play on their PC? I give up on humanity. People will pay for anything these days on Kickstarter. They don't even think about what they're paying for. Just like that feminist chick. Case.In.Point.

And no, PC isn't expensive. Even if you pay a $1000 for a PC, it's still cheaper than console gaming. Just look at these Steam sales. For a $100 you can get the amount of games that would certainly cost you around $600 or more on a console.
Looks like someone needs to take a trip to the


No, but seriously, your mad is showing.

It's a little open-source console aiming at a pretty specific niche (hackers, programmers, etc.). There's absolutely no reason to be upset about it. It poses absolutely no threat to the "pc gamer master race".
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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J. Mazarin said:
It's a little open-source console aiming at a pretty specific niche (hackers, programmers, etc.). There's absolutely no reason to be upset about it. It poses absolutely no threat to the "pc gamer master race".
I'm not upset about the console. They can make whatever they want. I am upset at how naive some people are. People are ignoring what is right in front of them and the developers are acting like they're doing something new and awesome. And people are buying that shit. It's ridiculous. Oh, the humanity.
 

Gatx

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Jul 7, 2011
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MisterShine said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
I bet a console that anybody can afford to develop for [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console] would come in handy right about now.
PC's are just that thing.

Not that I'm opposed to Ouya, mind you. I just haven't yet seen the reason we really need it yet, or what benefits to the market it really provides, so I'm not ready to hop on the hype train.

edit: After reading the Kickstarter page again, I shall upgrade my stance from Expectant Neutrality to Cautious Optimism.
That's why I don't get. Most people have computers and since this Ouya thing is a counter the high cost of console game development, chances are that the games that'll be made for Ouya can run on the average PC so what exactly is the point? Even if you want the console experience like the Kickstarter page is saying, HD TVs and surround sound, you can just use your TV as a monitor for your console, plug in a controller and there you go.
 

ToastiestZombie

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Mar 21, 2011
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Witty Name Here said:
ScrabbitRabbit said:
I became a PC gamer partly because it was cheaper just to get a computer that could game than it was to get a computer AND a console. This was pre-built, too, I was too naive to believe that building one is relatively easy and can save you a fairly substantial amount of money. And you don't have to upgrade anywhere near that much, games haven't gotten all that much more demanding in several years. My PC is relatively recent but several people I know are still using machines from five years ago.

Just because new components are released frequently doesn't mean we need to buy them all.
...No offense, but I don't really think "Cheap" or "Easy" should be used in the same sentence as "Build your own gaming computer".

Hell, if I were to "build my own computer", just looking at the recommended requirements for Battlefield 3 (not minimum, recommended) if I were to build the computer that it recommends I would have to fork over about

Quad Core Intel 2 - $139 on Amazon.com (Then again, just saying "Quad Core Intel" is so vague that I'm not even sure if that's the right one most of them have seemingly unimportant random numbers or letters after them. How am I supposed to know what "LGA 1155" even means?)

RAM - (How am I supposed to know what 4 GB of RAM even costs?)

Nvidia GeForce GTX 560 - $130 on Amazon (though I have no clue whether this graphics card can play other games or whether it's even superior to the other graphics cards it mentions... Or whether it even has a single GB of RAM on it)

Direct X Sound Card - $50 on Amazon (Once more, I have no way of knowing whether this would work with the other stuff or if it's even good beyond the User Reviews)

So far it's in the $310 dollar range, and that's not counting the monitor, the modem, the keyboard and mouse or... Well, anything else I would inevitably need to build the thing.
First, go to Newegg and search there. Second, you need a case, fans and a HDD. Third, when you think about it that's not that much for something that can do pretty much anything, not just play videogames. And it's 310 dollars to get a 250gb 360 and a year of Xbox Live. Let alone get games, which are normally 20 dollars more expensive on consoles than on PC.