I think this is why we need the Ouya...

[sanquin]

Selling 5 million copies would earn them 300 million dollars. So unless the game cost over 200 million to make, I say that that is a bullshit story from EA because they want to make more money off of it than is reasonable.

And if it did cost over 200 million to make, then they are thinking about giving the game far more of a budget than is reasonable. I mean, I've seen AAA looking indie games with budgets of 50~100,000. Why on earth would you need 20 times that amount to make a 'true' AAA game? If this is the case, they shouldn't expect customers to buy more. They should look at their own producing process and how cost-effective it is.

 

[rob_simple]

The problem with PC's as an alternative isn't their price, but the fact that more often than not you have to do a lot of your own debugging to get them to run. Not like writing your own code or anything, but if I had a penny for every time I had to go online to find a patch or alternative settings to play a game on my PC then I'd have enough money to be a console gamer.

OT: The Ouya is good as a concept, but like most other people I am extremely skeptical about whether or not the industry will get behind it and if it will actually be able to deliver on any of its promises. Plus I just can't stop comparing it to that hilarious Phantom console that, true to it's name, never materialised.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

First, go to Newegg and search there. Second, you need a case, fans and a HDD. Third, when you think about it that's not that much for something that can do pretty much anything, not just play videogames. And it's 310 dollars to get a 250gb 360 and a year of Xbox Live. Let alone get games, which are normally 20 dollars more expensive on consoles than on PC.

Thing is, I have nothing to go on. Most sites just list "The top 10 best graphics cards for gaming", I'm not interested in "The best of the best" because that usually costs more than a console itself. I have no clue what components work with what, no idea what graphics cards are "good" and which are "okay". If I was given a bunch of funds and told to build a gaming PC, I would probably only create some frankenstein-ish amalgamation of different parts that just don't work together.

Hell, just look at graphics cards, I don't imagine there's any way of knowing which is better performance wise unless you were to look up thousands individually and watch videos of them at work then look at professional and user reviews for them. There's nothing simple like "This is an Nvidia 5 and this is an Nvidia 6, since 6 came after 5, 6 is superior" I mean, what's the difference between a regular "Nvidia" graphics cards and whatever "GEforce" is? I mean, honestly, there is nothing "simple" about this, at best a person could look up a recommended gaming build on the internet and hoping that it actually works, at worst you'll be blindly buying dozens of components and praying to christ that you wont have to buy new ones because the ones you bought didn't work.

For example:

An EVGA 02G-P4-2678-KR GeForce GTX 670 FTW 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Despite the fact that it just seems like a random jumble of letters and numbers that don't tell the average person what they're in for at all... Or if it's even a graphics card... It's expensive and has an average of four stars, so I can only assume it's good. Now, will it work if I bought, say, some motherboard called "ASUS M5A97 AMD 9 Series AM3+ Motherboard - ATX, Socket AM3+, AMD 970 Chipset, 2133MHz DDR3 (O.C.), SATA 6.0 Gb/s, 8-CH Audio, Gigabit LAN, SuperSpeed USB 3.0, CrossFireX Ready"? How will I know if either of those things are even capable of playing Battlefield 3? How will I know if they're even capable of doing anything? If I recall some motherboards only work with VERY specific chips belonging to certain brands. There's just no easy way to do this, period. =/

There's honestly no

There's honestly no what! No cheese, no llamas! TELL ME!

But really, there's a load of guides that tell you the best gaming PCs you can get for under 600 dollars: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-gaming-pc-overclock,3159.html

You just have to do a bit of research, it's like when you get into any hobby or new thing. All you need is a budget, and you could ask the Escapist here or somewhere else. There's plenty of sites that build PCs for you, I got mine from a UK site called PCspecialist, I'm pretty sure there's a US equivalent. It's really not that hard, and definitely not that expensive if you have the know how, or you ask someone with the know how.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

The problem with PC's as an alternative isn't their price, but the fact that more often than not you have to do a lot of your own debugging to get them to run. Not like writing your own code or anything, but if I had a penny for every time I had to go online to find a patch or alternative settings to play a game on my PC then I'd have enough money to be a console gamer.

OT: The Ouya is good as a concept, but like most other people I am extremely skeptical about whether or not the industry will get behind it and if it will actually be able to deliver on any of its promises. Plus I just can't stop comparing it to that hilarious Phantom console that, true to it's name, never materialised.

But that's actually one of the PC's benefits. Think about it, on a console if something goes wrong then you can't do jack shit about it. If something goes wrong with say, Fallout 3 you can either download a fan patch, go fix it yourself or do one of the other options. If the same thing goes wrong on a console all you can do is wait for a patch, which might not ever come. Sure, it takes up a bit more maintenance but really there's only been two games I have had to manually fix this year and those were:

Fallout 3 because I f'ed up the installation for a mod. Uninstalling it only took about two minutes since I had the mod manager that does that shit for you.
Spec Ops: The Line's cutscenes didn't have sound, so I had to go disable a few devices I didn't need anyway. That only took about five minutes.

 

[MarlonBlazed]

What no love for Pandora? It's everything your asking for.

I feel like with all this OH YEAH talk nobody knows about Pandora.

 

[Khazoth]

And the ESA wants people to believe piracy is killing the industry. Ha! Their own bloated budgets are killing it.

Pretty much, but its easier to blame your customers, thereby alienating them, driving them closer to the edge of piracy. But you'll enact measures that are more harmful to your customers then the pirates in order to fight that, alienating your customers further.


But don't worry, the sequel to your new game will be /awesome/ because your making it with the latest, most expensive technology... But it costs more to make, so they'll need to sell more to stay afloat. Well that's no problem we'll just change everything people liked about our games and make them have more mass appeal, thereby pleasing more people. But by pleasing more people you're pleasing each person less, and drive the gaming industry into mediocrity. With game after game shooting for the middle and thereby eventually pleasing no one.


And in the end, people will stop trusting game companies all together and turn to the indie gaming scene, or piracy.

Overly bleak? Yeah, maybe, but the gaming companies don't give me much excuses to see the future of the gaming industry as anything but. Nowadays its all about who is the lesser evil this week.

 

[Kroxile]

And the ESA wants people to believe piracy is killing the industry. Ha! Their own bloated budgets are killing it.

And used games, don't forget used games!

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

PC's are just that thing.

Erm... Aren't PCs incredibly expensive? Why should I pay for, essentially, an Xbox AND a PS3 just for one computer that I'll have to update every... Two years or so.

I built a computer for about $500(canadian dollars) only upgraded it twice over the span of 8 years or so, spent less than $300 on upgrades... It still runs everything at higher graphical quality than today's consoles, runs skyrim fine with a shit ton of high rez texture packs installed to make it super pretty.

Also my steam library makes most people cringe, and when they realize that it cost me just shy of $500(which would ammount to what, like 8-10 AAA console game purchases?) it generally proves my point as to why I consider PCs not only reasonably priced, if you know where to look, but also gamer's heaven when it comes to saving money, and getting tons of games in the process.
In fact go check out steam's current summer sale, and realize that they do that kinda thing twice a year(summer, and christmastime), and that there's smaller scale sales on steam that are almost as good or just as good(just less selection) throughout the rest of the year... yeah...
Seriously though, if you wanna see what I mean, look at my games list, other than a couple that were gifts and 3 pre-orders(new vegas, brink, and shogun 2 total war) those were all purchased dirt cheap during sales... in bundles.

 

[rob_simple]

The problem with PC's as an alternative isn't their price, but the fact that more often than not you have to do a lot of your own debugging to get them to run. Not like writing your own code or anything, but if I had a penny for every time I had to go online to find a patch or alternative settings to play a game on my PC then I'd have enough money to be a console gamer.

OT: The Ouya is good as a concept, but like most other people I am extremely skeptical about whether or not the industry will get behind it and if it will actually be able to deliver on any of its promises. Plus I just can't stop comparing it to that hilarious Phantom console that, true to it's name, never materialised.

But that's actually one of the PC's benefits. Think about it, on a console if something goes wrong then you can't do jack shit about it. If something goes wrong with say, Fallout 3 you can either download a fan patch, go fix it yourself or do one of the other options. If the same thing goes wrong on a console all you can do is wait for a patch, which might not ever come. Sure, it takes up a bit more maintenance but really there's only been two games I have had to manually fix this year and those were:

Fallout 3 because I f'ed up the installation for a mod. Uninstalling it only took about two minutes since I had the mod manager that does that shit for you.
Spec Ops: The Line's cutscenes didn't have sound, so I had to go disable a few devices I didn't need anyway. That only took about five minutes.

Well yeah, I'd agree with you now, but consoles weren't always the bug-ridden pieces of shit they are today (mainly due to the fact developers are releasing broken games because they now have the option to patch it three months down the line). Of all the consoles I ever owned prior to this generation the only game I ever played with significant bugs (i.e. ones that actually harmed the gameplay) was Onimusha 3. Cut to this generation: I've had to replace both my 360 and PS3 and maybe one in five games I play will crash at least once in a playthrough.

As for PC games, almost every single game I ever played on the PC before I abandoned it needed to be patched or tweaked in some way just to get it to run. And that doesn't even take into account compatibility issues, given that there were some games that flat out wouldn't run on newer versions of Windows. I can definitely see the merits in PC gaming but I simply don't have the energy or the patience to scour forums for a solution every time I can't get a new game to run.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

The problem with PC's as an alternative isn't their price, but the fact that more often than not you have to do a lot of your own debugging to get them to run. Not like writing your own code or anything, but if I had a penny for every time I had to go online to find a patch or alternative settings to play a game on my PC then I'd have enough money to be a console gamer.

OT: The Ouya is good as a concept, but like most other people I am extremely skeptical about whether or not the industry will get behind it and if it will actually be able to deliver on any of its promises. Plus I just can't stop comparing it to that hilarious Phantom console that, true to it's name, never materialised.

But that's actually one of the PC's benefits. Think about it, on a console if something goes wrong then you can't do jack shit about it. If something goes wrong with say, Fallout 3 you can either download a fan patch, go fix it yourself or do one of the other options. If the same thing goes wrong on a console all you can do is wait for a patch, which might not ever come. Sure, it takes up a bit more maintenance but really there's only been two games I have had to manually fix this year and those were:

Fallout 3 because I f'ed up the installation for a mod. Uninstalling it only took about two minutes since I had the mod manager that does that shit for you.
Spec Ops: The Line's cutscenes didn't have sound, so I had to go disable a few devices I didn't need anyway. That only took about five minutes.

Well yeah, I'd agree with you now, but consoles weren't always the bug-ridden pieces of shit they are today (mainly due to the fact developers are releasing broken games because they now have the option to patch it three months down the line). Of all the consoles I ever owned prior to this generation the only game I ever played with significant bugs (i.e. ones that actually harmed the gameplay) was Onimusha 3. Cut to this generation: I've had to replace both my 360 and PS3 and maybe one in five games I play will crash at least once in a playthrough.

As for PC games, almost every single game I ever played on the PC before I abandoned it needed to be patched or tweaked in some way just to get it to run. And that doesn't even take into account compatibility issues, given that there were some games that flat out wouldn't run on newer versions of Windows. I can definitely see the merits in PC gaming but I simply don't have the energy or the patience to scour forums for a solution every time I can't get a new game to run.

Well that's fine really, I can see why someone would want a console. And I'm glad you can see why someone would want a PC. Oh yeah, here's another reason:

In the past two days I bought:
Darkness 2 for 10 pounds
Fear 2 AND 3 for 5 pounds
Warhammer: Space Marine 40K for 4 pounds
Deus Ex: Human Revolution for 3 pounds

Five games for half the price of Darkness 2 for the PS3. That is why I'm a PC gamer.

 

[gigastar]

PC's are just that thing.

Erm... Aren't PCs incredibly expensive? Why should I pay for, essentially, an Xbox AND a PS3 just for one computer that I'll have to update every... Two years or so.

Not really, my last laptop cost about £600 and i got 4 years of mileage out of it before its charger finally melted.

Granted consoles are cheaper, but so are PC games, and theres no charge for playing online.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

There's honestly no what! No cheese, no llamas! TELL ME!

But really, there's a load of guides that tell you the best gaming PCs you can get for under 600 dollars: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-gaming-pc-overclock,3159.html

You just have to do a bit of research, it's like when you get into any hobby or new thing. All you need is a budget, and you could ask the Escapist here or somewhere else. There's plenty of sites that build PCs for you, I got mine from a UK site called PCspecialist, I'm pretty sure there's a US equivalent. It's really not that hard, and definitely not that expensive if you have the know how, or you ask someone with the know how.

Woops, forgot to edit that last sentence out so it just ended up cut off. I fixed it.


Anyways, thanks for trying to help, but there are LOTS of guides. Some say that you can build something amazing for 800 dollars, some say you can build something amazing for 500 or even 300, it's not that easy to trust any of them when there's always someone else claiming they can do something better.

For example, here's another guide I found for a supposedly great "budget" PC.

http://www.build-gaming-computers.com/gaming-desktop-computer.html

Now, that seems helpful, but how am I supposed to know whether the computer he's talking about building is better than the one your link is talking about building.

And even with those guides I get a lot of people who just say build one completely custom to fit "your preferences" (despite not really knowing what my preferences are.) and send me on my way, would it be better to follow a guide or just trying and make one completely custom? (Though I hardly trust my own abilities, so I guess a guide would be best)

Don't get me wrong, if I could build a gaming PC, I would do it in a second. After all, I got a 1600 dollar Macbook years ago on my birthday from my parents, and it can't even run a game like happy wheels at 30 fps. It doesn't really have any uses and can barely hold a connection, so any chance to replace it (and replace it cheaply too) would be a welcome change. It's just building something really doesn't seem that feasible at the moment.

Well, like a lot of things, PC gaming is not for everybody. And really, some pre built ones are damn good. Newegg has a lot of pre built gaming PCs that are much better than something you would get at a more mainstream computer store, and Alienware is good but overpriced. There's plenty of options, but really if you can't be bothered then I won't force you.

 

[Waaghpowa]

First: Ouya is a good idea, but the problem is that people have no idea what they're funding. I support the open source revolution, but fact of the matter is that this Ouya is nothing more than a cheap tablet that has mainstream audio/video outputs to make it like a console. All you have to do is look at the list of "Most wanted games" for the Ouya to realize that people simply don't understand.

I fully support it's accessibility and what it could mean for the independent developer.

Second: I'm going to paraphrase what Matthew94 said regarding this whole computers and PC discussion that seems to have popped up in this thread.

Educating the ignorant in regards to computer gaming like fighting the mythical many headed Hydra. You cut off one head, two more pop up.

 

[Laughing Man]

Theres one and only one reason that I can get behind the ouya at this point. It brings more competition to the market and competition is always a good thing.

It doesn't bring any competition to ANY market, no one managed to answer my comment in the original thread about the Ouya, but if this console were to be of any level of success then their is essentially nothing stopping MS or Sony from pushing through am XBox or PS3 update that included an Android software emulator, in one fail swoop they would kill the Ouya stone dead.

 

[Erana]

We need Ouya to do the same thing PC's can do? When will people realize that all you need is a fuckin' PC? IT DOES EVERYTHING! These Ouya developers think they're some kind of revolutionaries. They are making a console that is less powerful than regular consoles, can't play most games regular consoles play, and it's less powerful than a 7 year old PC. It also does far less than a 7 year old PC. What.The.Fuck!

And their statement is ridiculous. "Oh, we love gaming on television". Then hook up your PC to a TV, *****. It's not rocket science for fuck sake.

This is not going to appeal to console crowd. Console crowd wants AAA titles. Just look at that thread about what kind of games people are expecting from this thing. Skyrim? On an Android based console without a discreet GPU? And why the fuck would PC gamers get one of these? Why would anyone buy this to play games they can play on their PC? I give up on humanity. People will pay for anything these days on Kickstarter. They don't even think about what they're paying for. Just like that feminist chick. Case.In.Point.

And no, PC isn't expensive. Even if you pay a $1000 for a PC, it's still cheaper than console gaming. Just look at these Steam sales. For a $100 you can get the amount of games that would certainly cost you around $600 or more on a console.

Why is it so hard to accept that some people just have more fun with a console?

I don't want to have to worry about specs. I don't want to have to worry about patches and updates. I don't want to worry about key mapping and skype popping up and my computer deciding, "fuck this, I'm going to UPDATE." I don't want to have to be two feet from the screeen, or have to buy a bunch of extra cables and grab a table for my laptop or keep a computer tower by the television. All the faffing about to set things up for PC gaming in that special way that suits the individual isn't a hobby for me. A setup isn't something I take pride in. Hell, I haven't even changed the background of my computer from the default because I simply don't care about that stuff. Its a chore.

I want to put the game in the machine, and the machine goes "beep, *flash* vrooooooom," and lets me play the goddamned game.

"Efficiency" or "cost-effectiveness" or whatever else excuses people use to call the PC better in whatever scenario they're arguing this time does not matter.

And do you know why?

Because, at the end of the day, the most important thing about the vast majority of video games out there is fun.

You know why someone would consider an Ouya?
1. Because they support indie stuff and have some money to show it.
2. Because it sounds like fun.

Yes, the question of if people would buy a console largely for indie games is a genuine concern for the future of this console, but reducing the issue down to the "PC is better" argument is practically thread derailment at this point. Everyone here has probably heard these exact same argument literally dozens of times before.
And now its been stated multiple times in the thread here. That magic ingredient that will make people buy the Ouya instead of just using the PC is that magical, illogical fun. Will that be enough? That's naught but speculation at this point, but no amount of arguing the same damn, generic argument used against consoles in general will get to the bottom of.

 

[cerebus23]

yea i dunno about all these people that have so many problems running games on their pc, only older games generally can give troubles, thank god for GOG remaking some of those older games that windows 7 does not like.

most newer games it is simply a matter of installing the updates that come with the games themselves, directx, physix, c++ etc are usually bundled with the games and run on install, or the occasional game where you have to find the redist folder and run them manually.

If the problem goes beyond that try updating your sound, video drivers.

There are older games i cannot get to run properly like star trek bc does not like windows 7 at all far as i can tell, the janes dos games etc, suppose dosbox would help with some older games but that takes a good bit of figuring out to setup properly. or the newer game i occasionally break modding or hacking, backup your files folks.

pc gaming will get expensive again when the new consoles come out, then you will need new hardware to run those next gen hd games that will jump past this generations, and that usually takes about 6 months for pc hardware to catch up to the cutting edge console that just came out.

But if you build a rig when a console rolls out or months after, you got a computer that is bulletproof for the next 8 to 10 years far as gaming goes, only the odd pc exclusive like a arma 3, or the total wars games, will push gfx any degree when compared to all the other games that are cross platform and look relatively the same.