"I want to be a game developer...nah"

[deleted_by_strongbad]

Game development can help people, there are games out there that help regular people contribute to scientific research and help those people understand the nuances and process of political activism (and shows productive and counterproductive methods) when living under an oppressive system.

That being said, most of those projects were pet projects by people who know/learned game dev but were working outside of the industry. Though as other posters have stated, helping people could be as simple as contributing to something that they can find some enjoyment in.

I am a professional software engineer, and I can say that there is a huge difference between developing a support ticketing system and contributing to something like a patient portal that aggregates and explains their medical record. They both presented interesting challenges, and surprisingly I think the development was more interesting/challenging for the ticketing system, but afterwards there was no residual satisfaction from the first, but the second can still lift me up from a crap day. This is probably because I know that if either of my parents had access to that tool during their last days their life would have been easier. If my background was different I may personally feel the support system helped people more.

So that's my advice, first figure out the top ten ways that to you would be helping people, compare those industries with game development and then figure out which you would rather do on a daily basis. Also, keep in mind, I know most of my draw to game dev (I think anyone who has ever taken even a single CS class has a little of that dream) is a glorification of what it would be to be in the game development industry, and have experienced a lot of what I dreamt it would be in hackathons/spare time development with other game inspired devs. So I guess the real question is do you want to make games (like you could do this as a hobby), or make games that have to be made in the traditional industry (your AA and AAA titles, again no wrong answer here)?


(related to a post about starting in qa)
If you already know programming, but are looking to get your foot in the door (does not apply if you are interested/a little familiar with development and want to get your foot in the door while you expand your knowledge): when starting your development career, QA/Support is death to that desired career, it is not a foot in the door (there are exceptions, but...), at most companies they are separate career paths and while every decent corp will explain how easy horizontal job transitions are, that person saying it is either a lier or koolaid drunkard. The managers/teams/politics/etc are all different, it isn't impossible, but in most situations you will become known as QA not development and that mental distinction will be a detriment to transitioning over.

 

[know whan purr tick]

Certainly further down the road but I came across the following today and it loosely pertains to the topic.

Powerup blog looked at pros and cons of various PC marketplaces. [http://blog.powerupgames.io/post/99905543738/marketplace-confusion-the-pros-and-cons-of-pc-game]

The author has a request for more information and corrections to what is listed. I had not heard of Desura and Itch.io before but I'm not well versed in his subject.


Whoa, the captcha is an integral!
⌠x²dx
⌡

=(1/3)x³ +C

 

[Lieju]

I've made games all my life. (Cardgames and boardgames)
As a kid I always had more fun making the games and directing play than actually participating as a player.
But eventually, I didn't pursue a career in that, mainly because growing up I didn't think that could really work as a job I guess?
I did apply to study computer engineering with very little enthusiasm but since I got in to study paleontology I went for that instead.
I know some computer programming and have written text-based 'games' or interactive novels, so maybe I'll try my hand at trying to learn more at some point.
To be fair I'd be more interested in writing games than anything else.

 

[joshuaayt]

Work isn't less meaningful or valuable because you enjoy it- You don't have to hate your job, you know.

 

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

I am a software developer that at first wanted to be a game developer. Studied lots of C++ in high school, enrolled in computer science at university with the highest score in the entry test for my year.

Long story short: I quickly realized that the game industry is a "high-risk, meh-reward" sector, and that the experience gained in the field is difficult to resell outside. In order to better support my (back then merely hypothetical) family, I decided for a more traditional area (web development) and never regret my decision.

Then again, if you TRULY want to work in this industry to the point of accepting the downsides, kudos to you. Follow your dreams... but be prepared to accept what you might lose by doing so. For me, the price was too high.

 

[Zombie_Fish]

When I first went into Computer Science, I also wanted to make videogames.

What made me change my mind was after I started looking more into Computer Science and seeing what other options were possible. After seeing all of these options I started thinking if games development was the best idea for me, and so I spent a good part of a year trying to find something that really appealed to me.

Now after three years of University, I've come to the conclusion of doing a PhD. The main thing that pushed me in that direction was purely interests; the area that interested me the most was Theory of Computation and there aren't any theory-focused career choices outside of academia.

If making an impact on the real world is something you're concerned about, there are tonnes of ways of doing it within Computer Science. For example, my University is currently working on a game to help adolescents with mental health issues.[footnote]http://big.cs.bris.ac.uk/projects/gnats-island[/footnote] There was also a final year project on using simulations to look the effects of fishing, and another which helped check the status of water wells for African villages, though I can't find any links for those projects at this point. But the gist of what I'm trying to say is that CS and games development can very much have a positive impact on the world.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Well I would just like a job I get paid on time with TBH that said I dont think there is any job I would like to do. I hate working for money and prefer to just do it for free but work I want to do, so usually I end up doing quite a bit of work and not getting paid for it.

That said if you can enjoy your job do it if you can find no worth in it you will likely hate it such as myself in my paid jobs. I would try and get out of it and do something I want to do but there really is not any paid job I want to do. Being paid for something I would do for free also does not sit well with me feels like it trivialises the reason why I did it in the first place this is also why I hate being sponsored and will always fund myself if at all possible.

If you want a job in the games industry go for it if that doesnt float your boat dont bother the only meaning in your job is what you find in it and no matter what you do you will be helping yourself (most people want money to live easier) and helping others (you do a job for them (usually to make them money)). This all depends on what type of help you are looking to give to others most wont sacrifice easy living and money to give more to others at their own expense but if thats what you wanted to do well hats off to you sir your a better man than me although I dont claim to be anything other than selfish and generally uncaring about anything other than my current goals anyway (including my future).

 

[mitchell271]

Honestly, I thought about it for a bit too. I've dabbled in Unity using pre-baked models, made some music, and wrote lots and lots of C#, but then I realised that I don't want to work in an industry with such high employee turnover and more than its fair share of horror stories. When doing the music portion, I realised I could use my student knowledge of coding to make DAW plugins. Sure, I had to learn some advanced linear algebra, but I'm working on them and it's really interesting.

I also learned that all CS students have either not enough or too many personal projects.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

A game developer contributes something to society... I don't see how that is selfish? Spurring a new medium for delivering experiences doesn't seem selfish at all!

I'd say that you shouldn't feel so self-conscious about your career just because you think games development isn't as directly gruelling as working in a steel mill or as psychologically taxing as a police officer. To be sure, you have to work under tight deadlines and co-ordinate with many people succesfully to produce an end product that will sell and be well-received.

The closest parallel that I can think of is ship construction, though supplant the manual force for mental exertion(dealing with bugs, re-drafts, edits, etc.) and both jobs are equally difficult.

As for me, it's kind of the opposite... I'd like to get into Games Development, but that is a prospect for the far, far future

 

[white_wolf]

I'm on the fence actually I have lots of ideas but my math skills I have no confidence I've been a C student at best in that field all my school days and while I can do HTML I'm not sure if I can do C++. I took 3D animation thinking my skills in 2D would work great, they didn't my 3D model's sucked and I knew why my math poor math skills aided in that one thing we all learned those who excelled in math banged out works or art those who didn't while still being able to make something it was basically crap and only worth of the trash bin in comparison no amount of great ideas saved us from our poor model's look and functions. So I thought why not try for the whole Iphone biz even though I'd love to make games for consoles it would be an easier way to get experience, I've checked out programs and the only ones I feel comfortable working with are the 2D drag and drops which means I'm doomed, I need a team if I hope to be able to produce the 3D games I really want. I can just propose my ideas, write the scripts, and work out the problems and communicate what I'd want that would go over alot better but I doubt that's going to happen as I know no one in that field.

 

[cikame]

I'm not sure a job as demanding as video game development would feel like a selfish career path for long, between the working hours, low wages and job insecurity i'm sure lots of people look for another career when the reality sinks in.

I love video games, i love the history and the technical side of it especially animation and optimization, i have always been terrible at artistic or creative things and have zero interest in learning how to code, i may have ideas for games and opinions on how things could be better made but i know the reality of game development is on a different planet entirely from me the consumer.

I'm 25, i think if i was going to be a video game developer i'd have probably made video games by now, not necessarily saleable games but i'd have hard drives full of unfinished projects and millions of lines of coding.

 

[BarkBarker]

I personally want to be a game designer and story writer, and still do. You can be as direct or indirect with how you help people as you wish when you create something, If I created something with the express intent of showing people what life living in a broken home and what it is like to leave your home with no prospects just to escape it, and then put some of the revenue from that game into giving those very people a helping hand, I have taken very direct action to better people and better the lives of those worse off, if even a little.

You should always consider others in your decisions, but you should also be selfish when appropriate.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Like a lot of people I entered computer science with the tentative aspirations of going into game design, but I've pretty much moved away from that now. There's enough horror stories from the industry that it looks far from anything I want to be a part of. While I think it'd be great to work for a small studio like ThatGameStudio or Supergiant games, it's not something I'm working towards by any stretch. My main focus now is working towards doing a Masters in the realm of computer graphics. If I somehow fall into a job involved with game development that doesn't sound absolutely awful then I'll probably take it. But it's certainly not the direction I'm shooting for.

 

[jamail77]

Eight dollars an hour...roughly half of what I was presently making. Mandatory 60 hours a week, going up to 80 during crunch time. No extra money for overtime.

And, EA, says they don't think they deserve the "Worst Company America Award". Maybe they aren't literally the worst company, but, jeez, that's even worse than I already thought EA was. 8/hr? That's what I make and I'm in fast food! At least, I get overtime pay! Seriously messed up!

I just don't see why you couldn't follow your chosen career path while also helping others and being charitable in your own way? Making money isn't selfish and neither is climbing the tiers of your field to obtain more pay, responsibility, and involvement with various projects and issues.

Look at it another way --- If you can't feed, support, and maintain yourself, how is it that you'll be able to uplift and help others?

[snip]

How about completing a degree and finding like minded and talented people to jump start your own game company? I do believe that's how Bioware started. Certainly a challenge with many issues to consider but... who says you couldn't do it if you really had a passion to do so?

I don't think you understand my dilemma. I enjoy DIRECTLY helping people. No mater how much games help people, it's always indirect. You say I should be charitable in my own way, but I want to do more than just charity on the side; I want my career to be charity itself. I can always make it charitable, but that's not the same as it already being charitable. I want a career that can feed and support me while also doing the same for others.



I've thought about that by the way. As I said in my OP, I have contemplated a part-time job or hobbyist game developing and starting my own game company and then leaving most of the day to day runnings to people I trust would be one way to do that without fully embracing it as my full time career.

But sadly, I just couldn't make the cut. My math skills are nowhere close to the needed skill. The man in charge of the game design program at the college I almost attended straight up told me I wouldn't cut it. After that, I decided to withdraw from the school. Everything other than their game design program sucked anyway and ended up going to college from home. Saved me a shit ton of money, I may be getting a career soon, and I can still hang out with my friends. I made the right choice to give up making games.

Math isn't something you're born with contrary to popular belief. That's why it's very typical of Asian culture (it's more than just a stereotype; this really is how it works in many, BUT NOT ALL OF COURSE, Asian countries) to push math so hard on all students without exception. They believe it is a product of hard work rather than innate understanding that is fixed. I believe it was Bill Nye who said that everyone who believes they stink at math is probably a lot better than they realize. You sound like you made the right choice regardless, but I guarantee with the right education you'd find you're just as good at math as anyone else.

snip

That is a beautiful story and it is interesting to hear someone express an opposite experience in this thread. Thank you.

Well OP you left me wondering, what is your dream job then? I imagine a charity construction worker in Siberia might fit the bill, plenty of physical labor, plenty to endure, very charitable and by all accounts as uncomfortable as one can get on a job.

I honestly don't know. That does sound like it would fit the bill, but I wouldn't take everything I said in my OP literally. I want a semblance of all of that, but I don't want to go full physical labor or uncomfortable. I just want to feel like I'm directly helping people, that's the most important thing. I want to know I'm making a difference in the world. Whenever the games industry does something good for people it's always indirect.

If anything, it's a smart move to stay out. Working in the game industry is a fucking disaster filled with headache, worry, and crunch hours. You can make an alright living in I.T. anywhere, provided you have the skills and certs. Games industry? Nope.

Tell you what, you still want to make games? Have a love for them? Have at her. [http://unity3d.com/unity/download]

That's why I added the "EDIT" in my OP, so as to highlight that the things I've heard about that aren't enticing either. I used to use Unity for a Game Programming class I took in high school, the only class they offered actually. We literally only used Unity and most of the class were lectures on what's good game design and us copying his Javascript code...only for him to get upset and tell us this shouldn't just be us copying his code, but also writing our own code. Really? Then why do you tell us to copy your code and give us an A for copying your code? Joking aside, I'm being too literal we were given free time to mess around with the engine and code and that counted towards our grade as well. I should download Unity again though. Going through online tutorials and testing my ideas was fun if more hobbyist than serious indie money making.

snip

You seem to be yet another person who doesn't understand what I mean. I said I'd feel selfish; I never said the games industry is inherently selfish or that following your passion is inherently selfish. Games have helped me get by in life as well, but it's all indirect. Games do not literally produce food and eject money out of your TV screen for the hungry and the poor. They are tools, but they aren't resources necessary to survive. I want my career to directly help people and games don't do that as much as I love their ability to help people in other ways.

Your story is very inspiring though and I feel a tinge of shame in having to snip it to keep my post from getting too long from quoting so many people. It deserves to be quoted in full.

]I then realized that I had more fun coming up with ideas for games than actually making games.

Yeah, that sounds like me.

I think a lot of people think that being a video game designer is just hours of sitting around playing games, drawing pictures of dragons and robots, and talking nerd stuff with other nerds. While it certainly happens, it's also a lot of mundane work and long hours as well. I always equate it to when I was in the Army: we'd get guys who thought that literally all we did was shoot guns, ride around in helicopters, and blow things up all day. While you do that, it's actually only a tiny % of what the job actually entails.

Anyone who thinks that is all being a video game designer or the army entails is a little silly. I may have limited knowledge on both, but it's not hard to realize it's more than that. You have to be so ignorant to have not noticed life itself to think such stereotypical things. It's like thinking all doctors do is use magic, get patients healed, done. There's conferences they have to go to, evaluations they have to make, and don't forget the paperwork and classic messy doctor handwriting too!

Being aware of the plight of others and feeling worse about yourself because you've "got it good" isn't really fair. Why deny what life has given you? I understand the want to be useful, but you also have to consider how tangible that idea is to you. Do you want to donate to charities? Volunteer? Go over-seas? Help developing nations? Like, there's a reason why not everyone does that stuff. You shouldn't feel like you're a worse person for it. It's all about context. It's the same reason when the PC master race is yelling about 60FPS/4K res, most people aren't jumping at them for not talking about starving African children. Everything has its place, and there's no universal "morality graph" which measures immediacy vs. height of issue.

Either way, do what you want to do. Help people as you see yourself fit best to help people.

I know I don't need to feel bad for what life has given me though I would argue it's more what society has given me seeing as how life is indifferent and carries on. People make life easy or hard for themselves; life is just life. We'd all have a pretty good life actually if it weren't for the clusterfuck that is society (Seriously, plenty of food for everyone and things like that) though I imagine once society gets out of its puberty stage we'll get there.

You have to understand that 2 of my biggest passions in life are helping people and feeling productive. It makes me feel good. It's not all about trying to justify how "good" I've got it. I just want to be a good person. I don't think there's anything wrong with people discussing hobbies, having fun, wasting resources on comic-cons or whatever floats your boat for the reasons you state. We can't help people 24/7 and we can't all change the world. There's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself and your friends and family. Believe me, I get that. It's about wanting to do good for the sake of doing good.

Just to play the other side of that coin, any media presence, from the earliest Greek play, has always been about escapism (at least partially). There's value in that, even if it's not physical. Sure, it doesn't reach everyone or help everyone, but it's a bit harsh to call it parasitic x). I'm sure you know from having worked in it, but would you say that games being a virtual experience invalidates their worth to people? Honest question, not sure if it sounds a bit awkward.

I highly doubt he'd be here on a website dedicated primarily to gaming if he thought games were only parasitic. We're all here because of our love of games presumably. I think he just means working in the game industry can feel parasitic due to the anti-consumer practices and lack of tangible charity. He didn't say games don't have worth or that the people working on them aren't trying to do good.

If making an impact on the real world is something you're concerned about, there are tonnes of ways of doing it within Computer Science. For example, my University is currently working on a game to help adolescents with mental health issues.[footnote]http://big.cs.bris.ac.uk/projects/gnats-island[/footnote] There was also a final year project on using simulations to look the effects of fishing, and another which helped check the status of water wells for African villages, though I can't find any links for those projects at this point. But the gist of what I'm trying to say is that CS and games development can very much have a positive impact on the world.

I am personally interested in Computer Science as it relates to infrastructure, so your advice is very relevant to what I'd like to do.

A game developer contributes something to society... I don't see how that is selfish? Spurring a new medium for delivering experiences doesn't seem selfish at all!

Not gonna lie, I'm really over repeatedly clarifying that's not what I'm saying. I suggest reading my responses to other people who said the same thing. Just scroll up in this post here till you find me addressing that.

You should always consider others in your decisions, but you should also be selfish when appropriate.

Absolutely. Nothing wrong with being a little selfish.

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

snip

You seem to be yet another person who doesn't understand what I mean. I said I'd feel selfish; I never said the games industry is inherently selfish or that following your passion is inherently selfish. Games have helped me get by in life as well, but it's all indirect. Games do not literally produce food and eject money out of your TV screen for the hungry and the poor. They are tools, but they aren't resources necessary to survive. I want my career to directly help people and games don't do that as much as I love their ability to help people in other ways.

Your story is very inspiring though and I feel a tinge of shame in having to snip it to keep my post from getting too long from quoting so many people. It deserves to be quoted in full.

Yeah, it was late here when I wrote it so I may not have been at the top of my writing game. I tend to meander when I'm tired.

My point though, was to illustrate the impact games can have on a life. That is a tangible good. I understand what you're saying though. You're clearly a person who has a high moral center, and I appreciate that. You want your life and work to be "about" something. I get that. Hell, I admire that.

I just wanted to point out that building these things has a real effect on people's lives is all. My life has been better for having games in it. My daughter's life has been better for having games in it. And I hope when the time comes that I have grandchildren, that their lives will be similarly impacted by the stories and interactions that they experience through games.

There's lots of ways to do good in the world. Building great games is high on my list.

This reminds me of a developer I know of named Brad Muir. He works for Double Fine and I am a big fan of not only his work, but the entire DF studio. He told a very personal tale once about his battle with depression after joining the games industry. Feeling that it's not viewed as "important work" and how no one there is curing cancer or anything. I've talked with him a few times on Twitter and shared with him what his games have meant to me over the years as well.

I appreciate your philanthropic desires. It seems like we should have come up with better ways to fix so many of the world's ills by now. Living in 2014, I'd always hoped we'd have sorted out issues like hunger and poverty and the all consuming greed that seems to have plagued the world for most of my lifetime. But works of art can serve those purposes. They can inspire us to do more. To be more.

It's why I always loved science fiction as a genre so much. To imagine a world where we aren't so small and ineffectual is enticing. No one in Star Trek is going hungry, no one in Star Trek has to resort to desperate measures to attain simple human dignity and respect, even if their skin is purple and they have suction cups on their tongue. That one show has inspired scientists for three generations and counting. That's real good borne from what was essentially thought of as a trashy little show when it was created. Maybe you could be the person who makes the video game equivalent of Star Trek that inspires the next generation to crack the great mysteries of the universe.

Anyway, this has been a fun discussion. I wish you luck in whichever field of study you choose to pursue. Cheers!

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

A game developer contributes something to society... I don't see how that is selfish? Spurring a new medium for delivering experiences doesn't seem selfish at all!

Not gonna lie, I'm really over repeatedly clarifying that's not what I'm saying. I suggest reading my responses to other people who said the same thing. Just scroll up in this post here till you find me addressing that.

If you want to directly help people, then do so!

It still strikes me as a bit baffling that you went as far as a computer science course before deciding that you want to do things more upfront, but to each their own and everything.

I still personally don't put down the usefulness or the help quality of game design just because it doesn't include shared suffering for the sake of others. It is a job concerned with producing entertainment, but if you want to enlist in the Peace Corps because you want to work in direct charity, then go ahead!

 

[Popido]

VR device specific userfaces and desktops will be a hot potato soon. You'll have better change getting money with that then some small independent game project. Indie scene is mostly about chasing "Notch" dollaroos and fucking the right guys. You'll do better if you get some non-game programming skills and then apply those for video games later on.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And, EA, says they don't think they deserve the "Worst Company America Award".

I don't know if I'd take that kind of pay-cut either, especially if I wasn't actually in a creative position in the company.

That... why in the hell would anyone take that. I make more at an untrained and uneducated job than that... and I get overtime. EA even screws over their employees.

In fairness to EA, this would've been in the 90's, before the EA Widows thing blew up and they reviewed their staffing policies. I'm sure they are still horrendous, but they're probably not AS horrendous. I just mention it because it's a funny story, due to the "Doctors and Lawyers" angle and the guy's transparent outrage that I wasn't jumping at the chance to earn a fast food salary while working 16 hour days.

 

[jamail77]

If you want to directly help people, then do so!

It still strikes me as a bit baffling that you went as far as a computer science course before deciding that you want to do things more upfront, but to each their own and everything.

I still personally don't put down the usefulness or the help quality of game design just because it doesn't include shared suffering for the sake of others. It is a job concerned with producing entertainment, but if you want to enlist in the Peace Corps because you want to work in direct charity, then go ahead!

I don't want to give up on computer science. I really enjoy it and, in some respects, it's kind of how I think honestly. It fits me very well in my opinion. Just because I believe I can't directly help people in the gaming industry doesn't mean I don't think I can't help people upfront with computer science. I responded to someone else that I'm interested in applying it to improving infrastructure for people who really need it. It can be used to help people contrary to popular belief.

It's just that the game industry, in and of itself, can't directly help others. I love gaming: It certainly has helped me get through some tough times, hang out with friends, and inspired me to do what I want to do with my life. Games don't literally eject food for the hungry and money for the poor out of the TV screen though.

Also, I don't want to share in the suffering of others to better help people necessarily. I just want to help people period. If it turns out I can't directly help people with computer science then, well, I also plan on getting degrees in education, anthropology, and electrical engineering (minor, double major, PhD respectively if all goes as planned). Those most certainly can be used to help people in an upfront way. Enlisting in the Peace Corps is something I've considered in the past. I'm still not sure about it. I probably won't go down that path.

 

[Evil Moo]

Being a selfish individual, I quite happily went from my Computer Science degree straight into game development.

As it's a small company I work at, the pay isn't very good by necessity, but I enjoy the work and I can't imagine finding any other career as interesting as I do this. Besides, if it was at one of the big companies I suspect I would end up being a small dehumanised cog in a production line for a product I don't care about.

Games and programming are possibly the two things I enjoy most these days, so being paid to do programming for games seems pretty much like the ideal situation for me. I can live with low pay for the moment. I'd much rather be doing something I find enjoyable for the majority of my time than having higher profits from something soul-crushingly tedious. Also, being selfish as I am, I feel no compulsion to do anything for the benefit of others, especially if it is at my expense. Any positive influence others receive through my actions is entirely incidental.