I want to love gaming, but I can't.
- Thread starter Werewolfkid
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Well good for you. Go into the gaming industry and make some brilliant games. Be sure to tell me about it. I'm headin' down the same path in a couple of years and never let the assholes get you down again. When you are overwhelmed by assholes just remember there are always good people out there who genuinely love videogames.Werewolfkid said:
That's the spirit. Is everyone on the planet going to like your game? No. Is someone out there going to like it? Yes. Aim for that someone. Most importantly, ignore the people who just say "This game is shit" without putting down any reasons why he hated it or even what parts he hated. Haters and trolls suck. What you need to do is ignore them so hard that they nearly stop existing. Maybe you won't agree with all constructive criticism either, but it's good to take notes on it anyways.Werewolfkid said:
Inside account follows:Werewolfkid said:
I was pretty much where you are now and sometimes still find myself thinking that. I used to be a big video games fan and made my hobby into my job. Now I am working in the industry and enjoying it immensely despite the following:
1) If you continue going to forums, you will see hate. Worse, when you go into the industry and finally manage to work on a game that is released, you will come to forums and see people hating YOUR game. This is an inevitable reality.
It can be quite frustrating when you think about all the work your team put into a project, all the late-nights, all the hardships, all the sleepless nights trying to think of ways to make the experience better for people and in the end, you will still have people who hate on your game, regardless of what it is, regardless of how well it is put together.
So my one, biggest tip for going into the gaming industry. Grow a very, very thick skin. You can't allow yourself to shut off from the community completely (in my personal opinion, others see it differently), because you will need to take feedback from the community into account, but you have to learn not to let it get to you.
2) You will get a very different look on the whole discussion of entitlement, rights and all the things gaming boards like to rage about. This, in turn, led me to sometimes get really, really mad at the people I "work for". You look at some arguments, you look at people saying how it would be a good thing for companies to go under, how it would be good if games just cost a lot less to make and you are in that industry and wondering...do these people just not WANT me to live a decent life? (This is thoughts that come to me, usually during crunch when there is yet another silly hate thread going on.) These thoughts never last though because:
The last game I worked on and released got relatively decent reviews. A lot of criticism. Not a lot of exposure. But even then, we have some fans who are simply amazing. The video gaming community is full of people who will go to great lengths to show you how much they appreciate your hard work. People who visit you from thousands of miles away, just for a chance to chat with you. People who make comic strips in honor of your game. Fan Artists, people who never miss one of your updates and give constructive feedback.
And knowing you helped make something that made people this dedicated...well for me, that is worth every minute of frustration.
TL;DR
Don't let the vile forum discussions dissuade you from going into the industry. You'll get more of this and it may be targeted at something you created, but in the end, you will find that a lot of people DO appreciate what you will be doing and they will show it abundantly.
All the best on your way into the industry!
Be the change you want to see in the industry.
Don't give up. Negativity is always more outspoken, but everyone has a varying opinion. Even though an overwhelming amount of people may claim to dislike a certain aspect of a game, there are those who adore it - wishing it was further explored.
You have to dig deeper to find the people that are truly passionate about the games they love, but there is so much out there, so much imagination and creativity and potential. Don't get down over the swaths of naysayers. Go out there and realize those ideas you've had. Help make an obtuse game that's mocked; create a world that breaks some boundaries and gets shunned. Do it for yourself. At the core of it all, only one person needs to be happy.
You.
Don't give up. Negativity is always more outspoken, but everyone has a varying opinion. Even though an overwhelming amount of people may claim to dislike a certain aspect of a game, there are those who adore it - wishing it was further explored.
You have to dig deeper to find the people that are truly passionate about the games they love, but there is so much out there, so much imagination and creativity and potential. Don't get down over the swaths of naysayers. Go out there and realize those ideas you've had. Help make an obtuse game that's mocked; create a world that breaks some boundaries and gets shunned. Do it for yourself. At the core of it all, only one person needs to be happy.
You.
Please understand that this isn't an attack when I say this but you sound a little naive.Werewolfkid said:
Do you know what you're getting into? And I can't stress that enough. Have you done your research? Is this REALLY what you want to do? This industry is hard. Even the best people get screwed out of their hard work. The person who replied to you and told you to get a thick skin, he's not lying.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, in this sort of cut-throat industry, you really can't afford to be wrong in your choice when you're first starting out. Personally, if you haven't already, I think you should get another job first. Get some experience. If you haven't got an education, get that although experience is more important really.
Also, try making your own games. There's tons of tools out there now so there's no excuse. Try your hand. Help someone mod a game. etc. If you find you still love doing this then full steam ahead.
Well if you want to believe everything is perfect in this world then you plainly need to avoid reality, out in the wild you will encounter people with differing opinions, if this is something you can't take then make a forum with your friends and just post happy thoughts all around.
As for what feedback a professional should take in, well ideally none, if your idea is really great then an audience will gather around it instead of the audience making demands.
But for those who still want to interact with the community it is best this is done through a third party, because people primarily react on emotion and only once that faded they will consider it logically, so the first reactions will always be irrational hate or defense of the game and only much later will it be clear to them how foolishly they act.
As a developer it is extremely important you don't deny this fact of our nature, because you can only manage it once you understood what is going through your head when the slightest critic of your work makes you rage uncontrollably, and that your customer is reacting in the exact same way.
As for what feedback a professional should take in, well ideally none, if your idea is really great then an audience will gather around it instead of the audience making demands.
But for those who still want to interact with the community it is best this is done through a third party, because people primarily react on emotion and only once that faded they will consider it logically, so the first reactions will always be irrational hate or defense of the game and only much later will it be clear to them how foolishly they act.
As a developer it is extremely important you don't deny this fact of our nature, because you can only manage it once you understood what is going through your head when the slightest critic of your work makes you rage uncontrollably, and that your customer is reacting in the exact same way.
I have a really hard time seeing what some people on forums write about games has to do with your love of gaming. If you don't like gaming anymore than own it, don't blame it on some downer forum talk. This whole post is way too preachy.
Where are you getting these opinions? /v/? If so, you should stop going there.
Anyway, make the games you want to make. There will be people to haaaate it, and people who adore it, and people of every opinion in between. That's just how game devvin' go.
Anyway, make the games you want to make. There will be people to haaaate it, and people who adore it, and people of every opinion in between. That's just how game devvin' go.
No problem. Negativity is something that the Internet revels in, so it's wise to avoid it when you're a developer. Hope you have a good time in the industry, and I'll certainly be up to see some good games, hopefully that you can be a part of.Werewolfkid said:
The reason negative comments stick out to you is because they aren't the norm. The more we see something the less we pay attetion to it so going on that it's probably a good thing you see cynacism because it means it's the minority. People who are happy with games also don't have as strong a feeling to comment on it as people who were disappointed so there's another explanation. Trust me I'm a psychology major.
Even if the majority were pessimistic about games now why would you give up your dream because of other people, and internet people at that? If it gets to you just stop reading forums and indulge in games on your own to re remind yourself why you wanted to get into the industry in the first place.
Even if the majority were pessimistic about games now why would you give up your dream because of other people, and internet people at that? If it gets to you just stop reading forums and indulge in games on your own to re remind yourself why you wanted to get into the industry in the first place.
People have been claiming DOOM for the gaming industry for a while now, that it's gotten terrible and it's going to crash and a whole lot of other nonsense that's been plaguing it since its very inception. Nostalgia isn't always a good thing, especially if it's rose-tinted and coloring your opinion with better days that simply did not exist. Gaming has always had its little grievances, but I've always managed to find lots of wonderful, beautiful gems along the way.
Remember when animal mascot platformers were a thing? When everyone was trying to capitalize on the genesis sonic hype, and there were a slew of mediocre rip offs (awesome possum anyone?), and then Rocket Knight Adventures suddenly existed. Majestic is the word I'd use to describe it. Fine, it was "too" easy, it was "too" short, but none of that ever stood out to me because the game itself was just such a profoundly fun ride. You'd screw up the jetpack trajectories all the time, but it was the fun kind of screwups, the ones you'd laugh over and make you want to try out all new kinds of crazy things all over again just because you COULD. And no matter how many times you'd pass through the same vistas and levels, every
Remember the bad movie/cartoon licensed games of the 8-bit era? Those terrible dick tracy, timecop, jaws, and awful awful spiderman games that made you feel like you got cheated out of your money's worth? There was a lot of mediocrity there too, but for every terrible, rushed game there was an Aladdin, an Animaniacs, and a Duck Tales. And those are the memories I take with me, because fuck everything else.
The Dreamcast was a 'failure', an 'overambitious console', and 'overhyped' by the new generation that can't seem to let go. Shenmue was a 'financial disaster', but a game that singlehandedly convinced me that games were more than simply entertainment. It would be YEARS later that the word that would come to mind is 'Immersion'. I'll never forget the meticulous hours I spent checking every nook and corner of every street, the joyful wonder at being at explore a time and place in the world that I'd never be able to experience otherwise. 'Do you know where I can find some sailors' was followed by the world's most awesome jumpkick to the FACE, but the world's negative-hype machine would never tell you that.
Ecco the dolphin was a bizarre game about a dolphin trying to save the world from aliens. But I played it for hours on end, enjoying the ripples and gushing of water as I dove over and under the sea. That 'echolocation' sound is BURNED INTO MY MEMORY for life for the billions of times I must've used it. It was such a pleasant and lovely sound. Actually, I think pleasant and lovely describe the game just as well.
'Grim Fandango' is a game plagued by terrible controls, the world's second worst item-menu interface (fable 3 gets first place), frequent sound and graphical glitches, and crashes. It is also my favorite game of all time.
'Mirror's edge' is a first person platformer which sounds paradoxical. It has terrible combat, linear gameplay, and a very unforgiving approach to small mistakes. I have played it for 100's of hours.
'Infamous' has shoddy facial animations that seem reminiscient of counterstrike 1.5's jaw movements. The stark division between good and bad morality seem so hilariously exaggerated it actively worsens the story by cheapening the character's personality. I have played it 5 times thus far, and am about to start my 6th run.
'Final Fantasy X' is a pretty looking game, but stars the adventures of an androgynous twat and the world's humblest doormat. The story takes a sharp turn at batshit retarded alley, and features one of the most disappointing final bosses in the entire history of all of gaming. It ALSO happens to feature a really, really good battle system, and singlehandedly introduced me to an entire COUNTRY's worth of developers that I'd been overlooking for a very, very long time. I would have never discovered phantom detective: ghost trick, phoenix wright, shin megami tensei, earthbound, vagrant story, secret of mana, chrono trigger, and a slew of other games. I would have never taken a profound interest in anime either, neither would I have ever been tempted to look up whatever in the hell 'Visual Novels' were. Until that point in time, I'd always thought they were glorified hentai or choose-your-adventure type games with underage women, but THEN I discovered Umineko, which is nothing short of a MASTERPIECE of storytelling. None of this would have been possible, were it not for Tidus and his woefully forced laughter (though intentionally forced).
The past year of 2012 had been a terrible mesh of disappointments, overbloated AAA releases, and pretentiously artsy indie games. It was a dry year for gaming, and felt underwhelming compared to years of old. It also saw the releases of 'Rayman Origins', 'Mortal Kombat', 'Vessel', 'Journey', 'Shoot Many Robots', Anomaly: Warzone Earth, Legend of Grimrock, Fez, Tribes: Ascend, The Witcher 2, Max Payne 3, The Binding of Isaac, Lollipop Chainsaw, Spec Ops, The Walking Dead, Orcs Must Die 2, Sleeping Dogs, Dust: An Elysian Tail, The Last Story, Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Mark of the Ninja, FTL, Thomas was Alone, Borderlands 2, Dishonored, X-com, Deadlight, Okami HD, Persona 4 golden, Far Cry 3, and Pokemon Black 2/White 2.
And THOSE are just the ones I can remember. There's probably many, many others.
Have faith OP. There's lots of people who love gaming. They exist in droves everywhere. Hell, I'm from Pakistan, and gaming is still a THING here. Most people only associate it with explosions, xenophobic religious zealouts, and poverty, but y'know, there's a lot of people just as passionate about gaming hiding in here too.
There will always be loud people. There will always be angry people. There will always be an unpleasable bunch of people who will shout and scream and decry the industry for being irredeemable, unsalvageable, and otherwise doomed to fail.
But never forget there are others too.
Remember when animal mascot platformers were a thing? When everyone was trying to capitalize on the genesis sonic hype, and there were a slew of mediocre rip offs (awesome possum anyone?), and then Rocket Knight Adventures suddenly existed. Majestic is the word I'd use to describe it. Fine, it was "too" easy, it was "too" short, but none of that ever stood out to me because the game itself was just such a profoundly fun ride. You'd screw up the jetpack trajectories all the time, but it was the fun kind of screwups, the ones you'd laugh over and make you want to try out all new kinds of crazy things all over again just because you COULD. And no matter how many times you'd pass through the same vistas and levels, every
Remember the bad movie/cartoon licensed games of the 8-bit era? Those terrible dick tracy, timecop, jaws, and awful awful spiderman games that made you feel like you got cheated out of your money's worth? There was a lot of mediocrity there too, but for every terrible, rushed game there was an Aladdin, an Animaniacs, and a Duck Tales. And those are the memories I take with me, because fuck everything else.
The Dreamcast was a 'failure', an 'overambitious console', and 'overhyped' by the new generation that can't seem to let go. Shenmue was a 'financial disaster', but a game that singlehandedly convinced me that games were more than simply entertainment. It would be YEARS later that the word that would come to mind is 'Immersion'. I'll never forget the meticulous hours I spent checking every nook and corner of every street, the joyful wonder at being at explore a time and place in the world that I'd never be able to experience otherwise. 'Do you know where I can find some sailors' was followed by the world's most awesome jumpkick to the FACE, but the world's negative-hype machine would never tell you that.
Ecco the dolphin was a bizarre game about a dolphin trying to save the world from aliens. But I played it for hours on end, enjoying the ripples and gushing of water as I dove over and under the sea. That 'echolocation' sound is BURNED INTO MY MEMORY for life for the billions of times I must've used it. It was such a pleasant and lovely sound. Actually, I think pleasant and lovely describe the game just as well.
'Grim Fandango' is a game plagued by terrible controls, the world's second worst item-menu interface (fable 3 gets first place), frequent sound and graphical glitches, and crashes. It is also my favorite game of all time.
'Mirror's edge' is a first person platformer which sounds paradoxical. It has terrible combat, linear gameplay, and a very unforgiving approach to small mistakes. I have played it for 100's of hours.
'Infamous' has shoddy facial animations that seem reminiscient of counterstrike 1.5's jaw movements. The stark division between good and bad morality seem so hilariously exaggerated it actively worsens the story by cheapening the character's personality. I have played it 5 times thus far, and am about to start my 6th run.
'Final Fantasy X' is a pretty looking game, but stars the adventures of an androgynous twat and the world's humblest doormat. The story takes a sharp turn at batshit retarded alley, and features one of the most disappointing final bosses in the entire history of all of gaming. It ALSO happens to feature a really, really good battle system, and singlehandedly introduced me to an entire COUNTRY's worth of developers that I'd been overlooking for a very, very long time. I would have never discovered phantom detective: ghost trick, phoenix wright, shin megami tensei, earthbound, vagrant story, secret of mana, chrono trigger, and a slew of other games. I would have never taken a profound interest in anime either, neither would I have ever been tempted to look up whatever in the hell 'Visual Novels' were. Until that point in time, I'd always thought they were glorified hentai or choose-your-adventure type games with underage women, but THEN I discovered Umineko, which is nothing short of a MASTERPIECE of storytelling. None of this would have been possible, were it not for Tidus and his woefully forced laughter (though intentionally forced).
The past year of 2012 had been a terrible mesh of disappointments, overbloated AAA releases, and pretentiously artsy indie games. It was a dry year for gaming, and felt underwhelming compared to years of old. It also saw the releases of 'Rayman Origins', 'Mortal Kombat', 'Vessel', 'Journey', 'Shoot Many Robots', Anomaly: Warzone Earth, Legend of Grimrock, Fez, Tribes: Ascend, The Witcher 2, Max Payne 3, The Binding of Isaac, Lollipop Chainsaw, Spec Ops, The Walking Dead, Orcs Must Die 2, Sleeping Dogs, Dust: An Elysian Tail, The Last Story, Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Mark of the Ninja, FTL, Thomas was Alone, Borderlands 2, Dishonored, X-com, Deadlight, Okami HD, Persona 4 golden, Far Cry 3, and Pokemon Black 2/White 2.
And THOSE are just the ones I can remember. There's probably many, many others.
Have faith OP. There's lots of people who love gaming. They exist in droves everywhere. Hell, I'm from Pakistan, and gaming is still a THING here. Most people only associate it with explosions, xenophobic religious zealouts, and poverty, but y'know, there's a lot of people just as passionate about gaming hiding in here too.
There will always be loud people. There will always be angry people. There will always be an unpleasable bunch of people who will shout and scream and decry the industry for being irredeemable, unsalvageable, and otherwise doomed to fail.
But never forget there are others too.
Out of curiosity , what are your opinion on these things , because really that's all that matters .
I for one do believe that developpers and publishers are trying too much to get everyone into the same boat . And that in turn is making a lot of games too same-ey . I honestly feel like i'm playing the same game under different skins . There is absolutely nothing wrong with making something more complexe and alienating a small part of people who would have potentially bought the game if it was " dumbed down" a bit . Just like there is nothing wrong with makig a super simple game that would alienate the small portion that wants a more complexe experience . The problem lies when everything is done the same way and there is little diversity ( on either side).
I'll give and example . Take dark souls and CoD . Those game are aimed at different demographics . If Dark souls was to become easier ( like WAY easier ) then the charm is gone and less people would buy/enjoy it . If CoD became less fast pace ( think ARMA2 or Red Orchestra ) then it's charm is gone and less people would buy it .
Trying to get everyone under the same banner is not a good thing .
I for one do believe that developpers and publishers are trying too much to get everyone into the same boat . And that in turn is making a lot of games too same-ey . I honestly feel like i'm playing the same game under different skins . There is absolutely nothing wrong with making something more complexe and alienating a small part of people who would have potentially bought the game if it was " dumbed down" a bit . Just like there is nothing wrong with makig a super simple game that would alienate the small portion that wants a more complexe experience . The problem lies when everything is done the same way and there is little diversity ( on either side).
I'll give and example . Take dark souls and CoD . Those game are aimed at different demographics . If Dark souls was to become easier ( like WAY easier ) then the charm is gone and less people would buy/enjoy it . If CoD became less fast pace ( think ARMA2 or Red Orchestra ) then it's charm is gone and less people would buy it .
Trying to get everyone under the same banner is not a good thing .
Well that's bullshit plain and simple. People love indie games (the Binding of Isaac, FTL, Bastion) and there are plenty of large games that have been praised as well. Yes there's a lot of cynicism. That's directed towards shitty products, something a decent game desginer without publisher oversight that makes a decent game shouldn't have to worry about. There aren't even THAT many people decrying that indie games are generally platformers with a single gimmick, and that's a fairly valid cynical view to have.
I haven't seen the level of cynicism you claim to have though. I don't see people going out of their way to hate, properly, games they haven't even played. Yeah, pointing out flaws and having a negative opinion makes you seem more intelligent. You feel like you have something over the game. You're not just following along, you've managed to find something you dislike about a game.
If you want to make a game that'll make people happy, good, make a good game. No good game has ever, and I do mean this, had the majority of its playerbase hate it out of peer pressure or to look cool. Or at least I can't think of one. If people hate a game, properly, it's generally a bad game, or a bad game for what it was meant to be.
I haven't seen the level of cynicism you claim to have though. I don't see people going out of their way to hate, properly, games they haven't even played. Yeah, pointing out flaws and having a negative opinion makes you seem more intelligent. You feel like you have something over the game. You're not just following along, you've managed to find something you dislike about a game.
If you want to make a game that'll make people happy, good, make a good game. No good game has ever, and I do mean this, had the majority of its playerbase hate it out of peer pressure or to look cool. Or at least I can't think of one. If people hate a game, properly, it's generally a bad game, or a bad game for what it was meant to be.
Step 1) stop using the Internet
Step 2) ????
3) profit!
On topic, while we say negative things about the triple A industry, the facts are that we'll always want want video games. So, it's not like video games are dying or something
Step 2) ????
3) profit!
On topic, while we say negative things about the triple A industry, the facts are that we'll always want want video games. So, it's not like video games are dying or something
If it's any consolation, I really enjoyed Dishonored.
Maybe you are reading into the negativity too much.
The way the world works, if someone likes something there is sure to be another that doesn't.
So if you find someone who hates the games you make or like, be sure there is someone who also really enjoys that game too.
Go make games, and make them for the people who enjoy them.
Maybe you are reading into the negativity too much.
The way the world works, if someone likes something there is sure to be another that doesn't.
So if you find someone who hates the games you make or like, be sure there is someone who also really enjoys that game too.
Go make games, and make them for the people who enjoy them.