I wish to say long-winded and generally unkind things about Spec Ops:The Line.

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Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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However, before I do, allow me to make one thing clear: I actually rather liked the game. I found it moderately enjoyable as a straight-up third person cover-based shooter. I liked how some situations would accommodate non-obvious actions on the player's part (For example, at the bit when the game clearly expected me to start firing into the crowd, I fired into the air instead and was impressed when the game's scripting reacted appropriately). Lastly, as someone who is rather put off by the prevailing tropes of the military shooter genre, I approve of what The Line was trying to do.

We clear on all that?

Good. Now, let the whining commence!

(Spoilers, by the way. Loud, proud and untagged. You've been warned.)

Firstly, I cannot help but feel that the whole subversive message business is rather poorly aimed. My reaction to most of it was a great big, "Yeah, no shit." What's that you say Spec Ops? Violent fantasies of martial heroism are a bit pathetic? Ya don't say! Oh, those scenes where you bombard and kill helpless enemies from the complete safety of a distant weapons platform are pretty damn creepy? Yup, well done champ.

"But!" You might tell me, "Those messages weren't aimed at a handsome, intelligent and brilliantly insightful individual such as yourself! They were directed at the people who get a kick out of military shooters. That's why the game started off all safe and familiar with Whitey McBuzzcut and his Yankee pals shooting Foreign-speaking brown people in a desert."

Thing is, are such folks really going to care what the game has to say? Especially when the game's moment-to-moment gameplay is basically indistinguishable from the games it's trying to critique. If they're just there for the big phallic guns, headshots and military lingo then the game unironically provides that in ample quantities.

Secondly, I found the attempts to make the player feel guilty to be rather inept. The game very clearly wanted me to feel bad about the whole white phosphorus incident and the general murder and mayhem. However, it never gave me any choice in the matter. I cannot be made to feel guilty about an action that wasn't of my doing. That's like saying, "That guy over there killed a kitten! Therefore you are a monster!" You need to make me choose to do it, or at least make me want to do it, then you can happily go about guilt-tripping me inside out.

(Oh, and please don't even bother with the, "Well, you had the choice to turn off the game", argument. Just... don't. If nothing else, doing so would have prevented the game from delivering to me its much vaunted message and thus it would have failed in its purpose.)

"But!" You might say, "It wasn't about you the player being guilty. It was about Captain Walker's descent into madness and his guilt."

If that's the case then they failed to establish what kind of person he was and what he was like before he went nuts. If you want me to appreciate a good old fashioned descent into madness then you must first show me the what the madman was like when he was sane. As it is, Walker is a borderline blank slate and his delusions (the broken radio, the hanging corpses etc) are presented to the player as Walker sees them, which leads me to believe that the player is intended to project onto Walker rather than observe him from a detached perspective.

Lastly, let's talk plot holes.

Now, I'm actually pretty flexible with plot holes. I'm of the opinion that if I don't notice them or they don't bother me while I'm playing (or watching, or reading) then they're not a big deal. I guess I'd prefer they not be there at all, but whatever, shit happens, writers make mistakes too.

So I mention the following because I found them highly noticeable and they bothered me.

- Why did they only send three guys on foot to find out what was going on in Dubai? I guess this can be put down to plot necessity, but still...

- Why the hell does does Walker not contact his superiors once he starts exchanging fire with American soldiers? This is clearly outside the parameters of his original mission. I realise they say something about the "storm wall" blocking radio transmissions, but if that's the case then they should have turned around and walked back out to make a report, not kept killing their way forwards. Besides, at one point Walker mentions "calling for evac" as something they can do, so they apparently have comms of some kind. I guess this could be put down to Walker's obsession. but that just leads me to my next one.

- Why the hell are Lupo and Lieutenant Whatsisname following a man who is clearly mad? During the flashback bit at the end it shows Walker talking into the broken radio while the other two exchange what-the-fuck looks, so they are clearly aware that something is up. Yet they continue to follow. "Chain of command", you might say, but that doesn't involve following the orders of a man who has started hearing voices.

Uh... yeah... that's all I got. My old essay-writing instincts are screaming for me to come up with a nice neat conclusory paragraph, but I can't be arsed. So I'm just going to end it here rather abruptly. And awkwardly.
 

veloper

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Jan 20, 2009
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though I'm not impressed with what Spec Ops may have been trying to do either. While guilt tripping some players would certainly have worked better if the game actually allowed for an in-game choice, I still don't think any kind of deconstruction of the modern shooter (or any game, or games in general for that matter) can have any relevance.

Games don't matter. Games are entertainment and the core gamer who enjoys MW and Battlefield is not a trigger happy sociopath.
They can wake me up when their games have an intelligent message about RL issues.
 

Fractral

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Feb 28, 2012
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I agree with you about the plot holes. Plus, the actual gameplay was pretty bad, on top of me hating cover based shooters anyway.
As for the guilt tripping, well, just because the core audience doesn't get the deeper meaning doesn't mean that it's not worth putting in there. I didn't understand the deeper meaning to Sucker Punch when I watched it first time- didn't stop me from being impressed when someone pointed it out to me. And besides, obviously some people got the meaning first time around- and if at least those people understood it and were affected by it, then the game had the intended affect. Otherwise you could claim any piece of fiction with a meaning is pointless if one person doesn't fully get it.
But yeah, I certainly didn't feel like an asshole when I played Spec Ops through, at least not until I shot the civilians.
 

tippy2k2

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I'll give it a crack. It's been a while since I played it but let's see if I can help...

General Stuff:
I know a lot of people do the whole "The message means nothing because I didn't have a choice" or "Us super intelligent people knew that was a crowd full of civilians!" I'd like to think that I'm a pretty intelligent guy (although I keep having my spell check tell me it's an I in intelligent, not an E so...:D) but I don't think how smart you are means anything. In fact, I feel like I was the perfect audience for it. Let me explain...

I love me some shooters. Like...a lot. If it's a well done shooter on the console (sorry PC peeps), I've probably played it and also shockingly, enjoyed the single player. The Battlefield series and Call of Duty series I have played and enjoyed every games single player. What is it that these games teach you? If it's moving, shoot it. If it's a set-piece where I'm dropping bombs (whether in an AC-130 or dropping white phosphorous on my enemy), I shoot first and don't bother asking questions because I'm busy shooting things.

It's got nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with the games you've played and how you've conditioned yourself playing them. Holy balls...imagine my surprise when it turns out that I just bombed the fuck out of a bunch of civilians. The fact that I didn't have a choice didn't even register to me; given the choice, I'd have bombed the fuck out of a juicy target like that. I don't want to have to fight my way through all those troops and I love the smell of napalm in the morning so drop the hammer so we can move on.

As for the plot holes...
1. It's special forces. That's their MO; a few people dropped in to gather intelligence and let's scurry on out of here.

2. I thought he attempted to but the sandstorm kept it from happening? It's been a year or so since I've played so I could be wrong...

3. I think they didn't know what to do basically and they've been conditioned as followers; not leaders. Basically, without any other option for them to take (sandstorm won't let them walk out of here, can't get in contact with higher-ups), they just follow the person who's willing to take charge, even if he's a few eggs short of a basket. EDIT: Holy balls...Wargamer is a genius! See the post right below. Can I change my answer to copy off of him?
 

Wargamer

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Apr 2, 2008
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Actually, the point about your allies could well be another reference to the inherent stupidity of many games.

Think about it; how many games have you played where you encounter an NPC and almost immediately you think "he's a traitor", or see a situation and know it's a trap? Think how frustrating it is when you are forced to go along with it, and your character acts astonished that they failed to see a twist so obvious most 13 year olds would have called them out on it.

This is because badly written games, or even good games where people get lazy, assume you are a moron. They lead you along by the nose and expect you to accept everything until they decide "Okay, now it's the shocking twist you didn't see coming!"

That's what your NPC allies are doing. They are following your orders because they were told to follow your orders, and even though it's obvious they should have stopped long ago, they don't because "that's not how the story goes".

If Spec Ops were made by the CoD or Battlefield people, you would be playing as a member of Captain Walker's squad instead. You'd be questioning his actions, accusing him of being crazy... and then carrying on regardless because you aren't allowed to turn on him until the scripted event in Chapter 11 that you aren't meant to have seen coming yet.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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i guess that's all subjective, tippy already gave responses to what I wanted to say to your plot holes, so just look at that if you want what I think on it (yes, I'm feeling as lazy as most video game writers, sue me). I'm actually surprised you didn't mind the gameplay, most people hated it (personally I loved it, I love 3rd person shooters and it felt very fluid after about 15 minutes through the first part of the story).

Also, it's probably my love for nolan north's voice, I think his VA for captain walker was superb and properly displayed every emotion/mental note walker was trying to get across, and it made me really get immersed into it.

the napalm scene was clearly forced, I'll not try and defend that, I think they should've had walker hallucinating or something if they wanted us to kill civilians and think twice about it later.
 

Wargamer

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The hallucination thing was done really well in a 2000AD strip. A Judge with PTSD after the Robot Wars (it's a sci-fi story series btw) starts seeing "robots" everywhere. In one shot you see a wife and an infant together, watching in terror as the Judge guns people down. In the next scene you see him destroying a pair of robots - one adult sized, one child sized.

I think if in the Napalm scene the civilians had been soldiers, or rather looked like soldiers to Walker and were then revealed as civilians, it would have had more impact than "bomb those white dots." Then again, I think the whole white dots on a HUD thing was the point.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Wargamer said:
I think if in the Napalm scene the civilians had been soldiers, or rather looked like soldiers to Walker and were then revealed as civilians, it would have had more impact than "bomb those white dots." Then again, I think the whole white dots on a HUD thing was the point.
that's true, I'm sure they did think of it that way now that you mention it, being a white dot on the HUD thing was probably what they were going for.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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tippy2k2 said:
"Us super intelligent people knew that was a crowd full of civilians!"
In my case I didn't even see the civilian white dots. I was just targeting the vehicles because I assumed that's what would move the scene along. The last vehicle sits right in the middle of civilian central, so yeah...
 

Tom_green_day

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I found the first hour or so incredibly dull but got into it a lot so by the end I played the last 5 hours in one full run. Not the funnest game-play but the story got interesting enough to compensate.
 

DataSnake

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On the WP thing, the player has exactly the same choices Walker had:
1. Try to take on an entire regiment without the mortar, getting your ass killed
2. Say "fuck that" and get the hell out of Dubai (this is the "turn off the game" option)
3. Use the mortar because neither of the other options appeal

Showing how creepy those setpieces are is a nice touch, but that's just the icing on the cake. The main point is that in war you get stuck making shitty choices. Walker's options were to leave Dubai under the control of an insane US Army regiment, get killed in a hopeless battle, or use the mortar. None of those is a "good" choice. That was a recurring theme in all the other "make a choice" moments: there is no right call. That's also one reason Spec Ops shows a form of storytelling no other medium could pull off: watching a movie or reading a book, it's easy to say "that character is evil. I would never stoop that low". In Spec Ops, you don't get that luxury. You can say to yourself, "I would have gone down fighting rather than resort to such a weapon", but the niggling voice in the back of your mind will reply "then why didn't you?" It leaves the player in the position of the fallen hero pleading that "there was no other way".
 

Someone Depressing

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It seems like people praise COD critics for not puting up with the same bullshit.

But people hate The Line critics because The Line's "not a COD clone".

It's a COD clone with very unconvincing aspects thrown over it.
 

balladbird

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tippy2k2 said:
I know a lot of people do the whole "The message means nothing because I didn't have a choice" or "Us super intelligent people knew that was a crowd full of civilians!"
that's the big thing for me, regarding people who complain about the lack of choice... they want the choice almost certainly BECAUSE they knew the twist was coming ahead of time, which defeats the purpose of there being a choice there in the first place.

and they almost universally deny it, which, depending on how they rationalize their denial, can go from eye-rolling to painful. "the way those white dots were moving was so chaotic, I knew they were civilians... because soldiers wouldn't be moving the slightest bit chaotically while having white phosphorous rained down on them!"

... I don't play many military shooters... in fact, unless I'm with a group of friends who want to play them... I never do... and thus my incredulity might be unfair... but I feel I can safely say that not more than a tiny, TINY minority of players can say, with a straight face that they saw the twist coming without being spoiled beforehand... which brings me to my point regarding the whole "the game railroaded us" thing.

If a person can honestly, with a 100% straight face, say that, without knowing that twist was coming, they would have honestly looked for an alternative to the White Phosphorus, then I respect their disgruntlement at the lack of a choice. If not, then... well, to use the tabletop gaming jargon... you're getting mad at the game for railroading you because you're trying to meta game... and it's hard to feel bad for you being cheated when you're cheating in the first place.

...and again... I refuse to believe more than a tiny percentage of gamers knew what was coming without forewarning.
 

loc978

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Zhukov said:
However, before I do, allow me to make one thing clear: I actually rather liked the game. I found it moderately enjoyable as a straight-up third person cover-based shooter. I liked how some situations would accommodate non-obvious actions on the player's part (For example, at the bit when the game clearly expected me to start firing into the crowd, I fired into the air instead and was impressed when the game's scripting reacted appropriately). Lastly, as someone who is rather put off by the prevailing tropes of the military shooter genre, I approve of what The Line was trying to do.

We clear on all that?

Good. Now, let the whining commence!

(Spoilers, by the way. Loud, proud and untagged. You've been warned.)

Firstly, I cannot help but feel that the whole subversive message business is rather poorly aimed. My reaction to most of it was a great big, "Yeah, no shit." What's that you say Spec Ops? Violent fantasies of martial heroism are a bit pathetic? Ya don't say! Oh, those scenes where you bombard and kill helpless enemies from the complete safety of a distant weapons platform are pretty damn creepy? Yup, well done champ.

"But!" You might tell me, "Those messages weren't aimed at a handsome, intelligent and brilliantly insightful individual such as yourself! They were directed at the people who get a kick out of military shooters. That's why the game started off all safe and familiar with Whitey McBuzzcut and his Yankee pals shooting Foreign-speaking brown people in a desert."

Thing is, are such folks really going to care what the game has to say? Especially when the game's moment-to-moment gameplay is basically indistinguishable from the games it's trying to critique. If they're just there for the big phallic guns, headshots and military lingo then the game unironically provides that in ample quantities.

Secondly, I found the attempts to make the player feel guilty to be rather inept. The game very clearly wanted me to feel bad about the whole white phosphorus incident and the general murder and mayhem. However, it never gave me any choice in the matter. I cannot be made to feel guilty about an action that wasn't of my doing. That's like saying, "That guy over there killed a kitten! Therefore you are a monster!" You need to make me choose to do it, or at least make me want to do it, then you can happily go about guilt-tripping me inside out.

(Oh, and please don't even bother with the, "Well, you had the choice to turn off the game", argument. Just... don't. If nothing else, doing so would have prevented the game from delivering to me its much vaunted message and thus it would have failed in its purpose.)

"But!" You might say, "It wasn't about you the player being guilty. It was about Captain Walker's descent into madness and his guilt."

If that's the case then they failed to establish what kind of person he was and what he was like before he went nuts. If you want me to appreciate a good old fashioned descent into madness then you must first show me the what the madman was like when he was sane. As it is, Walker is a borderline blank slate and his delusions (the broken radio, the hanging corpses etc) are presented to the player as Walker sees them, which leads me to believe that the player is intended to project onto Walker rather than observe him from a detached perspective.

Lastly, let's talk plot holes.

Now, I'm actually pretty flexible with plot holes. I'm of the opinion that if I don't notice them or they don't bother me while I'm playing (or watching, or reading) then they're not a big deal. I guess I'd prefer they not be there at all, but whatever, shit happens, writers make mistakes too.

So I mention the following because I found them highly noticeable and they bothered me.

- Why did they only send three guys on foot to find out what was going on in Dubai? I guess this can be put down to plot necessity, but still...

- Why the hell does does Walker not contact his superiors once he starts exchanging fire with American soldiers? This is clearly outside the parameters of his original mission. I realise they say something about the "storm wall" blocking radio transmissions, but if that's the case then they should have turned around and walked back out to make a report, not kept killing their way forwards. Besides, at one point Walker mentions "calling for evac" as something they can do, so they apparently have comms of some kind. I guess this could be put down to Walker's obsession. but that just leads me to my next one.

- Why the hell are Lupo and Lieutenant Whatsisname following a man who is clearly mad? During the flashback bit at the end it shows Walker talking into the broken radio while the other two exchange what-the-fuck looks, so they are clearly aware that something is up. Yet they continue to follow. "Chain of command", you might say, but that doesn't involve following the orders of a man who has started hearing voices.

Uh... yeah... that's all I got. My old essay-writing instincts are screaming for me to come up with a nice neat conclusory paragraph, but I can't be arsed. So I'm just going to end it here rather abruptly. And awkwardly.
...I had the good fortune to watch this game through a Let's Play, after the fact... because I despise the style of gameplay it offers. The kid I watched play it seemed to revel in it at first... but by the time he got to the white phosphorus scene, he had changed from enthusiastic participant to reluctant, disturbed observer. He sat there trying to do anything else to get through the scene, for a good two minutes, and then once he had done it, simply repeated "oh fuck, oh fuck. no. fuck."through the aftermath. He actually balked at using the stuff even when he thought it was just on enemy soldiers.

The delivery may have been ham-handed, but it was very effective on its target audience. I think you give said audience too much credit for their education, too little for their humanity.
 

NeutralDrow

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OP?

Stop reading my mind. ...okay, that was beneath me. If you were really reading my mind, you would have also asked why a military division with working hummers and plenty of fuel to run a hundred or so vehicles couldn't cover the same desert distance as three men on foot safely. Or why, why, why the CIA thought what happened in Dubai would have been so colossally damaging to America's reputation if it became known. It's like it takes place in an alternate-history world where Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib never existed.

Except for one thing.

Zhukov said:
- Why the hell does does Walker not contact his superiors once he starts exchanging fire with American soldiers? This is clearly outside the parameters of his original mission.
Actually, I've heard people who like the game say that was part of the point, that he was trying to be a glory-hound hero by going in single-handed and rescuing everyone. And then, of course, they immediately accuse me of being a wannabe glory-hound hero when I say the decision to go in further made perfect sense to me.

With the hindsight caveat of sending Lugo back (since he's our radio guy) while Adams and I go in further, sure, but finding the CIA and American soldiers fighting openly, with civilians caught in the crossfire, was enough to pique curiosity (let alone morality), and by the time we learned we were in over our heads, we were being hunted and it was too late to turn back.

balladbird said:
If a person can honestly, with a 100% straight face, say that, without knowing that twist was coming, they would have honestly looked for an alternative to the White Phosphorus, then I respect their disgruntlement at the lack of a choice.
I feel my grievance was legitimate, as I unsuccessfully searched for some way around, and as I later learned that the reason I wasn't successfully gunning down all the 33rd's soldiers in that scene (which was my next resort) was because they respawn infinitely. The game almost literally throws into the Kobayashi Maru test, but instead of the lesson being "be prepared, because sometimes you can't win," the point was supposed to be "you're a monster."
 

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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What I was thinking after I finished it was not "wow that message was truly revolutionary", it was "wow we've actually come to the point where we need a game like this".

The fiery death scene didn't really make me feel awful, and it could've been handled better. Spec Ops: The Line's story is not as amazing as people make it out to be. I agree to a degree with your points. It's more the fact that Spec Ops: The Line was needed more than what it actually was that makes it so special. We needed a game to take the piss out of it's own genre otherwise we'd have just sat there accepting all the bullshit patriotism from the other games.
 

TheRiddler

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Zhukov said:
I found the attempts to make the player feel guilty to be rather inept. The game very clearly wanted me to feel bad about the whole white phosphorus incident and the general murder and mayhem. However, it never gave me any choice in the matter. I cannot be made to feel guilty about an action that wasn't of my doing. That's like saying, "That guy over there killed a kitten! Therefore you are a monster!" You need to make me choose to do it, or at least make me want to do it, then you can happily go about guilt-tripping me inside out.

"But!" You might say, "It wasn't about you the player being guilty. It was about Captain Walker's descent into madness and his guilt."

If that's the case then they failed to establish what kind of person he was and what he was like before he went nuts. If you want me to appreciate a good old fashioned descent into madness then you must first show me the what the madman was like when he was sane. As it is, Walker is a borderline blank slate and his delusions (the broken radio, the hanging corpses etc) are presented to the player as Walker sees them, which leads me to believe that the player is intended to project onto Walker rather than observe him from a detached perspective.
Spec Ops: The Line really plays around with the assignment of guilt. I think the point of the White Phosphorus Incident was to put you in a similar position to the player. You assign blame to the game just as Captain Walker assigns blame to his mission and Konrad. And you continue to the end, secure in the knowledge that your hands are relatively clean.

[i/] Until...[/i] you reach the the tower, and you're confronted with the enormity of how meaningless your goals were.

If we're looking from Walker's point of view, he's killed civilians and effectively murdered what's left of Dubai by cutting off it's water supply, and for what? So that Konrad and the 33rd could face justice? Was it worth it? Especially considering that Konrad, the ultimate goal, was dead all along, a manifestation of Walker's own guilt.

If we look at it from the player's point of view, (assuming that they didn't know what was coming) they assumed that they were being put into a heroic power fantasy. As time went by, they assumed that they were playing through a revenge story, which still seemed, if no longer heroic, at least sympathetic. But the end rips this idea away from the player, as they find that the revenge fantasy was empty, something put together by their in-game avatar to justify what would follow.

Let's even go one step further and assume that the player did know what was coming. In that case, the game's asking them "What the hell, man?! You knew what was going on, and still, you put yourself through it? Do you enjoy this? [b/]Do you feel like a hero?![/b] At this point, maybe it would be more merciful to just stand there and [i/]die.[/i]" (I'll admit that this last one's a bit of a stretch and does require the player to read between the lines.)

Zhukov said:
Why the hell are Lupo and Lieutenant Whatsisname following a man who is clearly mad? During the flashback bit at the end it shows Walker talking into the broken radio while the other two exchange what-the-fuck looks, so they are clearly aware that something is up. Yet they continue to follow. "Chain of command", you might say, but that doesn't involve following the orders of a man who has started hearing voices.
Similar to Walker's evasion of guilt, I think that the point of Adams and Lugo following a madman was less about the chain of command and more about their assigning blame to you. At some point, they know that they're in the wrong, but feel that they can escape guilt by claiming that they were just following orders the whole time.
 

ShinyCharizard

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Zhukov said:
Secondly, I found the attempts to make the player feel guilty to be rather inept. The game very clearly wanted me to feel bad about the whole white phosphorus incident and the general murder and mayhem. However, it never gave me any choice in the matter. I cannot be made to feel guilty about an action that wasn't of my doing. That's like saying, "That guy over there killed a kitten! Therefore you are a monster!" You need to make me choose to do it, or at least make me want to do it, then you can happily go about guilt-tripping me inside out.
This right here. I sure as hell won't feel guilty about it when it is the only way to proceed in the game. Although I wouldn't feel guilty about it anyway.

The big argument supporters of the game make though that cracks me up is this "Oh but you have the choice to stop playing the game". Because yeah.......... when I buy a game for 60+ dollars that's what I'm looking for.