Idiots make a video discussing Hatred with some good points

[josemlopes]

Yeah, those idiots are the guys from Inside Gaming, they do make some good discussion every now and then even if most of the times they present themselfs going full retard. Still, this video in particular basicly summed up my stance with the game in general.


Not posting in the other thread since that one seems more of a "Either post your first reaction or get in a long quote-fest with some other poster on how you disagree on something".

I want more of a discussion on the points made, is shock culture still a thing? Does the game outside of its premise look interesting? Is the lack of a better justification for the main character's actions the major point of controversy (for example, in the other also similar games there is always some sort of reason to make you be less of a bad guy)?

I want to discuss more those things instead of outright first reactions to the trailer.

CAPTCHA: that escalated quickly

We will see, captcha, we will see

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

I pretty much fully agree with everything these guys said. I find it amusing how many people are denouncing this game, yet cry for diversity in video games. I mean, how many video games are there where you don't play as either a hero or anti-hero, but the full fledged villain? How many games allow you to step into the shoes of a dangerous psychopath (that isn't in a humorous light, ala Saints Row)? Not too many off the top of my head.

If anything, I commend the developers to not just do the in-thing that's safe, and to have a little bit of balls to try something different. While I'm not really into top-down isometric shooters, I do respect the idea behind this game and I hope to see other games pushing the boundaries in the future.

 

[Doug Las]

I honestly think the game will have more to offer, simply because a game just about shooting fleeing civillians for hours would be rather boring. That said, I doesn't look very compelling. With the info we have atm theres no reason to not just watch a 10 minute gamplayvideo instead of playing it.
Also I'm rather sure it won't be published here in Germany because of the theme.
So anyone who says this game should not be made, prepare to get castrated games like we do in Germany, because that is where that reasoning leads I think (Well that's the conclusion I got by thinking about it for 5 minutes at least )

 

[RagingTiger]

These guys at least see the trailer for what it is, but to be honest what do we know about the game? We don't know anything about the story nor do we know about the context of the violence, I have a suspicion that the trailer is deliberately misleading to get people talking, which it did.

As to Polygon stating "Shock culture is dead", why even bother paying attention to an outlet that is no longer relevant to a culture it blatantly didn't want to be part of to begin with.

 

[josemlopes]

I honestly think the game will have more to offer, simply because a game just about shooting fleeing civillians for hours would be rather boring. That said, I doesn't look very compelling. With the info we have atm theres no reason to not just watch a 10 minute gamplayvideo instead of playing it.
Also I'm rather sure it won't be published here in Germany because of the theme.
So anyone who says this game should not be made, prepare to get castrated games like we do in Germany, because that is where that reasoning leads I think (Well that's the conclusion I got by thinking about it for 5 minutes at least )

I kind of expect the gameplay to be something closer to crowd controll, the civilians probably are just for the sake of adding points from a game mechanics perspective, the cops and the rest are where the challenge is likely to come unless it really is just about mowing guys without any challenge (something that I would call a bad design choice).

From what I remember Postal wasnt an easy game at all, at times it was even very hard, same with Hotline Miami.

So yeah, from gameplay I expect something not that different from the Payday games where the player has to manage to exits with the cops to always have a way out while the civilians are there just for the added points. But all that is still to be seen and in the end it can still be a very shitty game.

 

[zen5887]

I pretty much fully agree with everything these guys said. I find it amusing how many people are denouncing this game, yet cry for diversity in video games. I mean, how many video games are there where you don't play as either a hero or anti-hero, but the full fledged villain? How many games allow you to step into the shoes of a dangerous psychopath (that isn't in a humorous light, ala Saints Row)? Not too many off the top of my head.

If anything, I commend the developers to not just do the in-thing that's safe, and to have a little bit of balls to try something different. While I'm not really into top-down isometric shooters, I do respect the idea behind this game and I hope to see other games pushing the boundaries in the future.

See, my problem with this game isn't that you're playing a bad guy or doing bad and violent things. There is plenty of room for a game to present those things and if somebody did it right I'm sure it would be really interesting. My problem with this game is that there is no substance behind any of the themes or ideas in the game. Okay, you're playing a guy who kills people. Why? Because he hates the world. Why does he hate the world? Why does he think like he does? What are the devs trying to say with this game? I mean, it's not 1994 anymore and I think we as a culture have moved away from games that are completely void of substance. I know we've only seen a minute and a half of this game, but from the devs website they seem to be taking a pretty barebones approach to theme and topic.

The devs said they wanted a "pure gaming experience" which is fair, retro is always going to be cool. But why make the conscious decision to make the game about a psychopathic ramage? Why not space aliens or zombies or nazis or any other tried and true gaming trope. I mean, Alien Swarm was pretty cool, right? I definitely feel like the only reason the devs went for the Postal thing is to drum up as much controversy as possible so people would talk about their otherwise underwhelming game.

There is a difference between pushing the boundaries and doing controversial stuff for the sake of controversy.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

snip

But even if it is barebones and simple, why should they conform to a trend, to what's popular in order to make it? Just because it's minimal, they still can't try something different, or creative? Or simply put a new spin on an old idea? zen, I'm surprised that you of all people on here, a musician, came out and said that as it's something young bands and musicians do quite frequently (take their influences, worship them and often put a small, unique spin on what has already been done thousands of times before).

 

[cleric of the order]

Yeah, those idiots are the guys from Inside Gaming, they do make some good discussion every now and then even if most of the times they present themselfs going full retard. Still, this video in particular basicly summed up my stance with the game in general.


Not posting in the other thread since that one seems more of a "Either post your first reaction or get in a long quote-fest with some other poster on how you disagree on something".

I want more of a discussion on the points made, is shock culture still a thing? Does the game outside of its premise look interesting? Is the lack of a better justification for the main character's actions the major point of controversy (for example, in the other also similar games there is always some sort of reason to make you be less of a bad guy)?

I want to discuss more those things instead of outright first reactions to the trailer.

CAPTCHA: that escalated quickly

We will see, captcha, we will see

Mundane Matt created a video on this liking it to the postal series and I agree with them and Him on this video.
When I first was introduced to this I went said well this a the most nihilistic and semi hedonistic example of art I've seen to date. I won't say It's JTHM, that had good writing and dark artistic qualities of it's own, mixed with what almost feels like a proto-tumblr mentality. This feels like a big angry middle finger.
Also when I heard they were polish I thought about Scandinavian humor and if the Polish had a similar sense of humor or they were looking to take a stance against their German relatives violence censor or something.
Heck for all i know this could be a dev teams loud statement to try and gain attention for the industry in Poland, which while I've done no research on the subject could be pretty small but talented.
Heck considering it looks like it could take place in an American population center, and also you yanks are the best known for that I could say that it could be a backlash against America. BTW some parts of the world (perhaps quite a lot) view America as the greatest threat to world peace.
On way or another, this game has us talking, trying understand the dev teams motivation or the like and if we can do that, I suppose it could be christened as art. The most resent and worst extra credit's I've watched ever went on about this yesterday. WE need to be able to talk about video games to validate them as an art, they should have read some Scott Mcclouds' work on comics first but the point remains, we can now talk the artistic merits of this game. I hate to think of this game to be what I need to wheel out Tom Leher's description of smut to defend to be a case of violent, edgy art but it seems so.

 

[somonels]

I honestly think the game will have more to offer, simply because a game just about shooting fleeing civillians for hours would be rather boring.

Isn't this the problem such dead simple games illustrate? That we don't care, or realize, what a game makes us do, and it becoming desirable as long as we are having 'fun.'

Edit: Well desireable might not be the best way to put it. Or any of this.

 

[wAriot]

I probably won't play it (maybe I'll try it, but won't do a full playthrough), but there is something that really amazed me from the trailer: the animations. They are incredibly realistic, to a point where I feel terrified of the MC and sad about his victims. I honestly have never seen pain/death animations as good as these, props to them.
The physics are pretty good, but that's UE4 for you.

Now, about your questions...
No, shock culture is certainly not dead, at least not in video games. There is still a LOT of things to show before it is. Sex is still a big taboo in gaming, for example. Allowing the player to kill children is still avoided by most developers, and is something that movies have been showing for decades. Even violence is controversial when it isn't given a justification (if you are a killing machine who murders thousands, like in GTA, that's terrible, but as long as you are an American soldier doing it in the Middle East, that's a-OK). That's why this game IS controversial.

Does the game look interesting? Well, to some point, yes. The mechanics aren't precisely exciting, but as I said I'm looking forward to the animations, and actually want to see how dark can they make it. Sort of watching things like A Serbian Movie or The Human Centipede; the argument is terrible but you watch them to see how far they can go.

And, again, the character having no motivation other than "I hate the world", is nothing new. I'm sure there is a lot of people who enjoyed creating havoc randomly in Prototype, without any reason, just for the fun of the fight.

I would say that the reason this game is controversial is not because of the plot (more like not-plot), but because of the setting, the atmosphere, and again, the animations. It makes the player feel uncomfortable not because of the actions of the character (that HE is making it do), but because of how those actions are carried out. And that's great! There aren't many games that can actually make this. The original Postal is one, for example.

 

[AcropolisParthenon]

I just wanted to point out while looking over the overall trailer again if you go to the trailer and pause at the 0:21 mark and look at the newspaper under the ashtray and look very closely you can see the words U.S Attacked and if you dip your head to the left you can also see the word towers, perhaps indicating that the game is set after 9/11?, or shortly after a terrorist attack on the united states?, it would start to give a small insight into the character's motivations.

Just a small thought that was all about the game.

 

[loa]

Well this threads existence proves that shock culture isn't dead though I'm kind of surprised that anyone can be shocked by violence in games at this past-god-of-war point in time.

Sex is something I'd have expected to have that kind of shock value since awkward mass effect fully clothed body rubbing is all we got in that department (in games that try to be games and not just porn) so far but you need to be clever about masking it since getting an 18+ rating is game suicide for some reason.

I have no idea what the game is about other than "oh no you shoot them civilians" and if that's all there is to it, that would be pretty dull. Been there, done that in postal, blood, god of war, fallout 3 etc.

 

[Ishal]

Yeah, pretty much agree with the video.

It's just another thing, and people who don't seem to like it only perpetuate it by talking about it.

It's just a creative expression. Doesn't matter if it's dark or edgy or pointless. Have people seen modern art these days? Where an artist can sit in a glass box and have people pay to just watch her, and call it art?

I'll wait for the game to release to form a more solid opinion. But I have to say I'm amused by the people who scoff at it, then end by saying, "It isn't even comedy. It's not even doing it in jest."

So what? It doesn't have to be comedic. If it wants to be edgy and play it straight, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Guerilla]

I for one am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that Polygon are being complete hypocritical morons negating their own articles as they write them. One would think reading that that Polygon is a joke of a site with no integrity that does and writes anything for hits and as we all know this isn't the case, right guys?

 

[Inglorious891]

I for one am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that Polygon are being complete hypocritical morons negating their own articles as they write them. One would think reading that that Polygon is a joke of a site with no integrity that does and writes anything for hits and as we all know this isn't the case, right guys?

I... I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, and what you mean by your sarcasam.

Polygon's right up there with Kotaku with shitty journalism (ie mostly clickbait articles), so if you're not being sarcastic I agree with you, but I'm 90% sure you're being sarcastic, and if you are I have no idea what your point is. Do you think the two guys in OP's video being idiots because they're pointing out something negative about Polygon and you don't like that? If so, then why are they wrong?

I'm really confused by your post.

 

[omega 616]

When do you think the internet will move past "you're an idiot for thinking differently than me"? Unless you're trying to argue something absurd like the sky is purple and grass is orange, idiot is very strong. Plus, (just about) everybody says it ... which means the majority think we are smarter than everybody else, which just doesn't work. I know that wont effect anything in the grand scheme but can we stop it?

Anyway, on topic. You get controversial shit in every art form, I know a lot of people don't think games are an art form but if gaming wants to be seen as one then we need some controversial shit.

Plus, it's nice to be the arsehole. In every game, you are the bad ass hero that saves the day/rescues the woman and then falls in love with the woman (a reason I am sick of games at the moment). Now a game comes out where you're the evil prick that nobody likes, it's healthy for the medium.

Think of it like this, the movie world has human centipede and a Siberian film ... they kick the fuck out of hatred in terms of distasteful, nasty shit but they are ok and Hatred isn't?

 

[Guerilla]

I for one am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that Polygon are being complete hypocritical morons negating their own articles as they write them. One would think reading that that Polygon is a joke of a site with no integrity that does and writes anything for hits and as we all know this isn't the case, right guys?

I... I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, and what you mean by your sarcasam.

Polygon's right up there with Kotaku with shitty journalism (ie mostly clickbait articles), so if you're not being sarcastic I agree with you, but I'm 90% sure you're being sarcastic, and if you are I have no idea what your point is. Do you think the two guys in OP's video being idiots because they're pointing out something negative about Polygon and you don't like that? If so, then why are they wrong?

I'm really confused by your post.

Polygon is a joke, the whole internet knows it. Before they joined the social justice crusade they were too busy shilling for Microsoft, Kinect and online DRM (and most probably being bribed). Before that they were too busy being clowns who were only interested in hits. That site has a long history of being the butt of the joke in the gaming community.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Why do we dislike Inside Gaming?

Anyways, what is with gaming sties these days claiming things to be dead? Such arrogance, and people wonder why they dislike them.

"It's kind of a small miracle that a game bout violence can make us feel again".

This was quite a potent line, I think.

 

[Fishyash]

I agree with that video as well. The trailer is hardly promising, but I at least find the art style acceptable.

There's only two "issues" I have with the game so far...

First, the isometric viewpoint. It's not inherently bad but I feel the game would have more impact if it was in first person.

Second, if the writing is going to be at the level of that monologue at the beginning of the trailer, they shouldn't bother. It would be better if the protag was silent and you just dropped hints in the level design or something so players will try and make up their own lore/interpretations. Yes it's somewhat lame/cliché but at least I wouldn't cringe.

 

[Guerilla]

I agree with that video as well. The trailer is hardly promising, but I at least find the art style acceptable.

There's only two "issues" I have with the game so far...

First, the isometric viewpoint. It's not inherently bad but I feel the game would have more impact if it was in first person.

Second, if the writing is going to be at the level of that monologue at the beginning of the trailer, they shouldn't bother. It would be better if the protag was silent and you just dropped hints in the level design or something so players will try and make up their own lore/interpretations. Yes it's somewhat lame/cliché but at least I wouldn't cringe.

I completely agree on your first point but I don't think that monologue is terrible if they go for over the top surreal villain. The game knows it's being ridiculous and it's having fun with it. I wouldn't mind more ridiculous one liners from that guy during gameplay either.