If a company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it?

[NEREVAR117]

I'm confused. My original post was flagged with a warning for encouraging piracy. What? How is me saying "Sure, you can." encouraging piracy? That's just a factual reply. I see people in here encouraging piracy and they're not getting in trouble. How am I not surprised...

no. piracy is theft.

In what way?

 

[Susan Arendt]

Is it ok? Not really. Is it understandable? Yeah, I'm afraid it is. Given that few stores will let you return or even trade in a PC game, it makes sense that a PC gamer would want to be sure about a purchase before making it. Even if there's no demo for a console game, you can usually rent it before plunking down the full asking price, or perhaps pick it up used. Neither of those options are common for a PC game, though. PC gamers are frequently rather screwed when it comes to purchasing games.

I'm never going to advocate piracy of any kind. But of all the reasons I've heard for pirating a game, this is the only one that I think is remotely reasonable. (Assuming the pirate in question lives in a region where games are readily available and also that the pirate will be using the pirated version as a demo ONLY and not as the full version of the game.)

 

[Dark Prophet]

I know it's not nice to pirate and blah di lah di dah, but if a game has no demo or demo with 10-15 minutes of gameplay in it it's kinda hard to tell wether I like it or not. So yes I have pirated games to get a taste. It goes like that-I get a game-I play it for an hour or so-I decuide wether I like the game or not-I delete the game-if I liked it I'll buy the game if not I won't and I'm probaly keep doing it until developers provide proper demos or in depth gameplay videos.

 

[Emperor Nat]

nope.

there are no valid reasons for piracy.

it's always up to you whether or not you think you're comfortable with doing it, but there aren't any excuses that make it "ok".

First post in the thread and my opinion has already been summarised by what appears to be a very moral zombie.

 

[targren]

Well, I had a nice, detailed response in mind. However, considering what happened to Nerevar up there, I'm just going to say "it's subjective" and leave it at that.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

That's like saying "If a car dealer doesn't let me test drive this sedan is it ok to steal it?" Unless there is literally no way to legally obtain a game you have no right to pirate it.

I'm not going to march around with a picket sign saying that pirating is litterally the worst thing for the industry, but unless you absolutly need something and you cannot obtain it through proper channels then you shouldn't steal it.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

ultimately the correct thing to do is to compensate everyone fully for all of the work they have done. publishers deal with distribution, developers make the game, retailers take your money and deal with having a local store: all of these people deserve renumeration for their work.

When you buy a used game [http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00000K4AX/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used&tag=vglnk-c21-20], who gets paid?
What about when you rent a game [http://www.gamefly.com/], who gets paid then?

the same people that get paid when you buy it normally.

the more a game gets rented, the more copies need to be purchased by the store and rental copies are usually more expensive for stores to purchase.

as for the used market, the value of the initial purchase is partly based on the concept that you'll be able to sell it second hand down the road. it's an intrinsic value that's bound into any non-consumable product. Of course, that's not what game publishers want you to think...for some reason they think they're above this basic economic concept.

 

[BabyRaptor]

I find it rather disconcerting that only the people who are speaking of piracy in a positive light here are the ones getting modded.

If you're gonna crack down on talk of piracy, Mods, punish everyone. Don't just punish the people you feel hold the wrong opinion. Technically it's illegal either way.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Well, anyway, I agree. Wanna try it out? Rent it, not pirate.

There's no rental place over here, and I don't really have gamer friends either. So where does that leave me?

with online reviews, "let's play" type videos and your gut instincts.

in the end, if you aren't sure whether game X will be worth price Y, just don't get it.

Actually, the main reason I want PC game demos is to see if my computer will run it properly, as system requirements and canyourunit.com are really not that useful. So how else am I going to find out if my computer can run it without a demo?

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

As long as you buy the game after or treat the pirate version as a demo.

It's like music or whatever, it's fine to get a copy or a trial online as long as you purchase the product after a certain amount of time. If I listen to an album and like it I WILL buy it. If I play a demo and like it I will probably buy it lol

 

[Ranylyn]

Renting is dead. The generation of children that used to rent grew up, got jobs, and bought new. Rental stores have all but died out in my neighborhood where there were 5 last year - I can bus for an hour and a half to reach one, an hour and a half to get home, and another 3 hours there and back the next day. For 10 bucks on the rental alone, before bus tickets. (Over 5 bucks, transfer expired by the return trip.)

We live in a world where "Pre order now" is 98% of game advertising. Devs want you to pay full price for something you don't know you'll like, and then go one step further by trying to fight used game sales with bull like online passes? Game gets leaked two weeks early? Why the hell not, go for it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, you just saved yourself from paying over 60 dollars for a piece of trash.

The fault lies completely with the devs on that one. They want your money before their product is even out - and this usually includes exclusives that shouldn't be exclusive (See: Deus Ex Human Revolution and the Grenade Launcher as a Pre Order exclusive, or example)If you don't pre-order, you lose out on a lot - but hey, all you know about this game is "Pre-Order now!" Because they're not giving you one shred of ANYTHING to tell you if the game is for you or not.

Best example: Rage. Rage came out earlier this year. Back in like March, I was being bombarded with "PRE ORDER NOW!" and "Honk to get some random dude in the game" and other stupid ads. Not once before August (At my local Gamestop) did I see a game trailer. I didn't even know what GENRE it was. Not tell me what kind of freaking moron I would have to be to pre order that game if I know nothing about it?

So if I was curious about Rage and there was no demo (I wasn't so I didn't check) you bet your ass I'd pirate it if it was leaked early so I'd still have time to get in on the pre-order bonuses.


Honestly, there are only two kinds of people who would say there's never any reason to pirate ever. Firstly, those who are rich enough to pay any tariffs on imports for games unavailable in their region. Look at all the games that never leave Japan. Want to try them? You can pirate them and see if they're worth importing, or just import them all, which carries an astronomical price tag. The other group are the trolls, plain and simple.


EDIT: And before anyone else calls me a criminal, I want to clear the air. I currently posess two pirated games: One game that I couldn't acquite in my area and is being shipped to me from another country (playing this till it gets here) and one game that I loaned my step niece that she lost, so I'm playing the pirated one until she finds it to give it back.

 

[Athinira]

nope.

there are no valid reasons for piracy.

There is plenty of valid reasons for piracy.

That doesn't mean i officially support it, but i can understand the reasoning plenty of people use for piracy. Your opinion is not worth more than their in the judgement of whether or not it's "okay".

I could give several reasons for piracy that i (personally) consider valid:
- Gets rid of unfair DRM
- You used to own the game, but it got lost somehow
- A way to tell a game company "I like your game, but i don't like the way you treat me as a customer". This one is twofold, but if i were to give an example: A game company bans you from a multi-player game you bought from them for cheating, even though you didn't cheat. Since that is essentially taking your game away from you, then you are (in my humble opinion) in your perfect right to go play the game on alternate/pirate-servers or instead pirate one of their other games as a way to set things even. That's just one example out of many on how a company can treat you unfairly.
- Game isn't otherwise available in your country (or is somehow handicapped, like the censored version of Left 4 Dead 2 in Australia).

I could give more, but above should be enough to get my point across.

to test a game is VERY murky water. how much will you play it? 10 minutes? an hour? 2 hours? one full play through? best to stay away, and rent it for your console, read a bunch of reviews, watch gameplay videos. there aren't a shortage of ways to see how games are, without actually paying a dime.

As long as a person is sincere about buying the game if they find it entertaining, it doesn't really matter if they just play 10 minutes or complete the pirated version.

Reviews and gameplay videos are NOT a good measure to judge a video games worth. Those are the reasons i decided to buy Dragon Age 2, and boy i have never been more disappointed with a game purchase in my life. I would almost say i wished i had pirated it to try it out, but since Dragon Age 2 has a demo i can't really excuse that i didn't try that one first (although a demo can cheat you as much as videos and reviews can since they are usually tailored to show the cool parts of the game).

 

[Imper1um]

There are two, completely valid reason to get the pirated version of the game:

1. It is not available in your country (region locked), and the company has no plans to make it available in your country (at all), see also #2.

2. The game has become "out of print". Games that haven't been online for a decade are okay, because no one makes money on it, because there's no more printing of the game. There are plenty of "abandonware" games that I have technically pirated, but the developer has released all holds on purchasing the game.

Besides that, there is no reason to pirate a game. There is plenty of Youtube footage from games coming out that you can use to make a decision if a demo has not been released.

Pretty much it boils down to, you should only "pirate"/"download" a game for free if the company refuses you all ability to pay them to access the game. I believe in full access to the world, and its up to the publishers to provide the game to the world. If they chose to prevent certain parts of the world from paying them, it is all on them if the region decides to pirate to get around that access.

 

[emeraldrafael]

No?

If a film company doesnt release a teaser trailer, is it oka to pirate that?

besides, if you're going to pirate a game "just to try it out" that implies you plan to buy it. So you're going pirate a game, then spend money, for the exact same thing you just got stole for free. that more sounds like you have a mental deficiency.

 

[Deleted]

Anything can be justified to the person doing it. Everyone will steal if conditions are right. "oh they won't mind" "its just one little thing" "i really need it"

So its okay to pirate in the opinion of the person pirating, but not to a third party or the devs. Funny how that works, morals are subjective.

 

[balanovich]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

You should've put a poll.

I say, absolutely! It's necessary for "informed" purchased. I pirate every game before I buy them because I usually find the demos insufficient.

Once a demo didn't include controller input for PC.... And it was originally a console game so you REALY needed a controller to try it. So I pirated it...and It sucked, I played 25 minutes.
(I could've rented it, but they didn't have it at the store.)

Agreed there is no excuse EVER for piracy, unless it's something complete outrageous, but lets not involve that as it will make this post too silly.

It's "better" if you wouldn't have bought it unless you had tried it, but you still should never do it.

Devs don't care about pirating, they care about not getting the money. So If you buy the game after, they won't mind... just be sure to either buy it or not play it.

If a grocery store does not give you a free sample of their sausage, is it alright to steal it? NO!

The flaw in your analogy is that if I steal the sausage, the store losses money instead of just not making some.

most media nowadays is sold under the concept that you are purchasing a license to view/use that media in a specific format for a specific device.

---

As to what happens when your "idiot brother comes and breaks it": your idiot brother buys you a new copy.

In Canada and America, if you bought a console game, you have the right to have it on your computer (ROM) and play them on in an emulator. As for music and videos you can "rip" them on your computer to watch them, or on your Ipod. You also have a right to make backups of everything.

The problem with torrenting is that you are also sending a copy of it to someone else, and that part is illegal.

 

[kwydjebo]

nope.

there are no valid reasons for piracy.

it's always up to you whether or not you think you're comfortable with doing it, but there aren't any excuses that make it "ok".

If you've bought a CD, then your idiot brother comes and breaks it before I get to play it, do I have to buy it again? I've already given my money to the developers.

You have a very valid situation here.
I think, NO, you should not have to buy the game again....your IDIOT BROTHER should have to buy it so he learns to respect other people's stuff.
Some game places may offer you an exchange if you come in with a broken product (within A few days of purchase) for a working one (when I bought my xbox years ago, GTA4 came with it but didn't work so despite being a few weeks after purchase they exchanged it for a working copy).

But to teh OPs question, well, there are 2 questions
"if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game"
1) Is it LEGALLY ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?
NO, not in any legal system I'm aware of.
2) Is it MORALLY ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?
Well that's up to your own beliefs, but I doubt you'd find any holy man who'd listen to this and say "Yeah sure, god is cool with this, he really loves it when you stick it to those whiners"...okay no "credible" holy man...

 

[Smeggs]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

Right, because you'd totally pirate it, try it out, and then delete it from your harddrive so that you could go and buy it legitimately.

Puh-leez.

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

There are only two reasons one can pirate a game, in my mind:

1. There is no possible way for you to get it legally where you live (because lets face it, most game devs would prefer it if more people played the game, rather than worrying about profits).
2. The company doesn't make money off it anymore (in which case, it really wouldn't be piracy).

Any other "reasons" are just veiled attempts at making yourself feel better for stealing.

Yep. Old abandoned games are fair game morally in my opinion (though perhaps not legally... I'm sure the law varies from case to case.) At that point it's more like archaeology, 'Here's this wonderful thing from the history of gaming, let me see what it was like," than violation of Intellectual Property.

As for downloading something new to try it... yeah, it's wrong. At best, if you then go ahead and buy it you erase the damage, but it's an easy step from, "Yeah, this isn't worth 60 bucks," to coming back months later, when you're bored, and playing through it anyway because you have the time.

Now, should companies offer demos? Sure. Should they accept returns if you aren't satisfied? Yeah, they really should... lots of other businesses do, even in cases where that could be abused... it's more important to treat your customers well than to hang on to every cent that comes your way. But I don't sneak into the Baskin Robins and take a scoop if they don't let me test the flavor. Plenty of games out there that you know are gonna be good or that do have demos, so find one and give your money to them.