If a company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it?

[isometry]

I have a question for people just telling him to rent the game.

What is the difference between that, and pirating it? The developers aren't going to make money off of it either way. Not advocating piracy, or any of that nonsense, but I am curious.

The more people who want to rent a game, the more copies the rental service will buy, so although it looks like a single individual renting a game is no different from pirating it, for a rental store serving a community of 1000s of people it definitely makes a difference in terms of how many copies they will have to buy.

 

[RaikuFA]

nope.

there are no valid reasons for piracy.

it's always up to you whether or not you think you're comfortable with doing it, but there aren't any excuses that make it "ok".

There is one...

When you cannot get the game through normal means(never released outside of Japan like the first two SMT's or if you can only buy it second hand and the game cannot be remade due to either legal crap like Earthbound or the source code is gone like Devil Summoner.)

Other than that, no it is not acceptable to pirate games.

 

[Epona]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

That's like saying "If a car dealer doesn't let me test drive this sedan is it ok to steal it?" Unless there is literally no way to legally obtain a game you have no right to pirate it.

I'm not going to march around with a picket sign saying that pirating is litterally the worst thing for the industry, but unless you absolutly need something and you cannot obtain it through proper channels then you shouldn't steal it.

Where cars are concerned, there are Lemon Laws.

I'm sure you got the point, just because you can't try something out before purchasing it doesn't give you a right to steal it.

I am sure you missed the point. Software does not have Lemon Laws so if you buy a game that should run on your PC (you are at or above the min specs) and it doesn't run or if it is extremely buggy, you can't return it.

Games are released in extremely buggy states these days. Just in the last week there are two games that released buggy as hell Skyrim and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7. Skyrim has serious framerate and texture issues plus a few broken quests as I understand and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7 on the PC won't even run because of faulty DRM.

Now tell me, if you bought a car that kept slowing down to 20 MPH or that wouldn't even start, what would you do? I'll bet you would demand a test drive before you buy a car anyway and isn't that all that people are asking for here?

 

[Death God]

If there is no demo to try it then there is no reason to pirate the game so that you can play it for a bit. Piracy is piracy and there is no reason for it. So, no.

 

[Dense_Electric]

Don't kid yourself. Once you've pirated it you're not going to 'Try it out' and then buy a full copy. So no, I don't think it's okay. After all, that's what trailers are for.

Ah yes, the act of downloading a game to see if you enjoy it before purchasing it magically prevents you from being a good person and supporting the creator if you happen to enjoy it. I guess if you're weak-willed, maybe it does.

And if you're really going to insinuate that watching gameplay footage is even remotely comparable to playing a game, I'm going to have to ask you to step outside.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

If you only intend to see if it's worth your time. If it isn't, and you make sure to uninstall as soon as you determine that. The only other times are if you can't get the game in your country, or if the company who made it no longer exists.

 

[EzraPound]

Morally, pirating is not wrong unless you're pirating an indie games--the world would probably be a better place if AAA studios and publishers had less money.

 

[b3nn3tt]

Morally, pirating is not wrong unless you're pirating an indie games--the world would probably be a better place if AAA studios and publishers had less money.

I'm afraid that I don't understand how you could have come to this conclusion, could you elaborate please?

OT: No. It absolutely is not. Fair enough, if a company doesn't release a demo, you have every right to feel aggrieved, but if you are unsure then just don't buy the game. The only people that lose out are the developers, and it's down to the fact they didn't release a demo, which was their own choice.

Furthermore, there are no circumstances where it is 'ok' to pirate. That being said, there are some situations where it is less wrong, and when I think it would be ok for authorities to look the other way, the key one of which is if it is literally impossible for you to acquire the game legitimately in your country. Even then, I'd say it's hazy.

 

[predatorpulse7]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

If they don't have a demo or ability to rent, pirate it. If you like it, buy it when the price goes down(this goes especially for games with high replayability factor). Simple as that.

I know some will dispute this and make some weak ass analogies but if I can't get a glimpse of the game nor have the ability to rent, what the f**k am I supposed to do? Spend 60-80 bucks(if not more) out of my hard earned cash for a potentially piece of s**t game? This is not like buying a bad sausage(to use the example from a user, not to mention that many places like markets will give you small taste of cheese/meat products before you decide to buy or not) or blowin 7-10 bucks on a crap movie? We are talking about some serious cash and if I have no way to pre-test you bet your ass I will pirate it to decide if I should buy or not.

You look at the quality of a tv before you buy it, you test drive a car before you think about the purchase. If neither demo nor rent is available, pirate it.

My 2 cents.

 

[predatorpulse7]

I do wish publishers would release demos more often though. Remember the days when PC magazines came with CDs full of demos of games you mostly never heard of? Those things were my primary source of deciding which game I wanted to buy with my allowance.

Bingo. I had the same thing(still have a stack of like 30 magazines from the 90's). I would buy those magazines and decide if the games were decent via the demos. I bought quite a couple of full games this way. These days, if you don't have the ability to rent, you are screwed because apparently demos aren't fashionable nowadays.

 

[b3nn3tt]

If they don't have a demo or ability to rent, pirate it. If you like it, buy it when the price goes down(this goes especially for games with high replayability factor). Simple as that.

I know some will dispute this and make some weak ass analogies but if I can't get a glimpse of the game nor have the ability to rent, what the f**k am I supposed to do? Spend 60-80 bucks(if not more) out of my hard earned cash for a potentially piece of s**t game? This is not like buying a bad sausage(to use the example from a user, not to mention that many places like markets will give you small taste of cheese/meat products before you decide to buy or not) or blowin 7-10 bucks on a crap movie? We are talking about some serious cash and if I have no way to pre-test you bet your ass I will pirate it to decide if I should buy or not.

You look at the quality of a tv before you buy it, you test drive a car before you think about the purchase. If neither demo nor rent is available, pirate it.

My 2 cents.

You could always just not buy the game. Your TV and car quality analogies suggest that if you couldn't test them out before buying you should 'borrow' them to see how good they are. Personally, if I had no way of ascertaining the quality of a TV or car, I wouldn't be buying it. Same goes for games; if you have no legitimate way of finding out how good a game is, don't buy it.

 

[predatorpulse7]

Well, anyway, I agree. Wanna try it out? Rent it, not pirate.

There's no rental place over here, and I don't really have gamer friends either. So where does that leave me?

with online reviews, "let's play" type videos and your gut instincts.

in the end, if you aren't sure whether game X will be worth price Y, just don't get it.

Hilarious.

You really think "let's play videos" can be the same as actually feeling the game at your fingertips,seeing how it would run on your pc, controls etc.. And don't get me started on the value of online reviews.

With games being up in the 50-80$ range, I think gut instinct doesn't apply here. You go with your gut instinct for cheaper purchases. You try to inform yourself when you buy a pc,car,tv. Ok, I exaggerate a bit cause those are way more expensive than games but the same logic applies.

I wanna be INFORMED and I wanna have some contact with the game I am considering buying. Some REAL contact. It's about the lazy ass companies nowadays who expect people to buy their games no matter what. Back in "the good old days", when PC gaming was still relevant, almost every major release had demo's and once we tried them out we were really psyched/bummed about the upcoming release. It wet our appetites and gave us some contact with the game, its graphics, basic mechanics and such.

There were some games I really wanted to buy but the demo convinced me to do otherwise. Of course the opposite was also true sometimes but the point is that the guys making their product.

Renting is great and I wish I had it over here as well.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Extra Credits had a good idea, email the company and tell them 'I was considering buying your game, but a lack of playable demo has left me no option but to pass on it, this time, please consider including a playable demo in future projects as it's an important part of the buying decision for many potential customers'.

Sure it doesn't sound like much, but in bulk, that could really swing a company around to bothering to do the bit of work required to make a demo version.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Also, it's not for everyone, but I believe the online service now lets you play the first 30 minutes of any game on their network for free, now there's a good move on their part, good for everyone!

 

[Elsarild]

It isn't a valid reason, no.

The debate about it being ok isn't any longer than that.

The debat that the issue revolves about, is the moral question, is it morally right to pirate a game and use it as a demo.

 

[predatorpulse7]

If they don't have a demo or ability to rent, pirate it. If you like it, buy it when the price goes down(this goes especially for games with high replayability factor). Simple as that.

I know some will dispute this and make some weak ass analogies but if I can't get a glimpse of the game nor have the ability to rent, what the f**k am I supposed to do? Spend 60-80 bucks(if not more) out of my hard earned cash for a potentially piece of s**t game? This is not like buying a bad sausage(to use the example from a user, not to mention that many places like markets will give you small taste of cheese/meat products before you decide to buy or not) or blowin 7-10 bucks on a crap movie? We are talking about some serious cash and if I have no way to pre-test you bet your ass I will pirate it to decide if I should buy or not.

You look at the quality of a tv before you buy it, you test drive a car before you think about the purchase. If neither demo nor rent is available, pirate it.

My 2 cents.

You could always just not buy the game. Your TV and car quality analogies suggest that if you couldn't test them out before buying you should 'borrow' them to see how good they are. Personally, if I had no way of ascertaining the quality of a TV or car, I wouldn't be buying it. Same goes for games; if you have no legitimate way of finding out how good a game is, don't buy it.

But here's the thing, demos are(well,were) a great weapon for making people want your game. It wets their appetite if it's done right. I great up in the age of the demo so to speak and I was way more hyped after playing one mini-level of game x than reading a gazzilion previews,dev interviews,trailer like we have today. Granted, both are essentially a form of marketing but since demos were released couple of weeks/months before the final product, you had in your hands a part of the mostly final product.

And I can't "not buy it" when we are talking about certain series that I love, especially if they don't have demos as you say. It would mean that I can't play 90% of games out there since apparently demos are beneath them nowadays. I would simply like to see an actual playable preview of the final product instead of watching others play it. It's completely different watching someone play(on their machine) and how it will react in my machine(not to mention the actual feel of it which is very important cause you know gameplay).

I would go out and by games based on my gut instinct if I had a lot of money. Unfortunately I can't afford that so I have to be picky and research.
It's also funny how the meaning of the word demo changed. For me, in the 90's, it almost always meant PLAYABLE demo. Now it's almost always watching some wanker play the game instead of me and that's just sad.

 

[predatorpulse7]

Extra Credits had a good idea, email the company and tell them 'I was considering buying your game, but a lack of playable demo has left me no option but to pass on it, this time, please consider including a playable demo in future projects as it's an important part of the buying decision for many potential customers'.

Sure it doesn't sound like much, but in bulk, that could really swing a company around to bothering to do the bit of work required to make a demo version.

This would be do-able if some companies actually brought out demos nowadays but 90% don't. I would have to email almost every single company and I doubt it would change anything since there are another gazzilion players(with bigger wallets) that are gonna buy their games regardless of whether they have an actual preview or not.

 

[endtherapture]

I think it is okay to pirate a game to check out if your computer will run the game, and then buy the game if it runs it.

 

[b3nn3tt]

.

.

But here's the thing, demos are(well,were) a great weapon for making people want your game. It wets their appetite if it's done right. I great up in the age of the demo so to speak and I was way more hyped after playing one mini-level of game x than reading a gazzilion previews,dev interviews,trailer like we have today. Granted, both are essentially a form of marketing but since demos were released couple of weeks/months before the final product, you had in your hands a part of the mostly final product.

And I can't "not buy it" when we are talking about certain series that I love, especially if they don't have demos as you say. It would mean that I can't play 90% of games out there since apparently demos are beneath them nowadays. I would simply like to see an actual playable preview of the final product instead of watching others play it. It's completely different watching someone play(on their machine) and how it will react in my machine(not to mention the actual feel of it which is very important cause you know gameplay).

I would go out and by games based on my gut instinct if I had a lot of money. Unfortunately I can't afford that so I have to be picky and research.

I agree with you, demos are a very good idea. But the only people that truly lose out because of a lack of demo are the developers. You might love or hate the game, but you won't know without a demo; by not buying the game, you keep your money and know that you didn't take a risk. The game company, on the other hand, loses you as a potential customer and doesn't gain any money from you buying the game. To be honest, it makes a far stronger statement to email the developers and say 'I would probably have bought your game, but the lack of demo put me off' than to pirate it and then buy it anyway.

If you love a series then you would probably buy the game anyway, even if the demo was less than stellar. I'm not suggesting that you don't buy any game that you don't demo, I'm just saying that a lack of demo is no reason to pirate.