If a company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it?

[Epona]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

That's like saying "If a car dealer doesn't let me test drive this sedan is it ok to steal it?" Unless there is literally no way to legally obtain a game you have no right to pirate it.

I'm not going to march around with a picket sign saying that pirating is litterally the worst thing for the industry, but unless you absolutly need something and you cannot obtain it through proper channels then you shouldn't steal it.

Where cars are concerned, there are Lemon Laws.

I'm sure you got the point, just because you can't try something out before purchasing it doesn't give you a right to steal it.

I am sure you missed the point. Software does not have Lemon Laws so if you buy a game that should run on your PC (you are at or above the min specs) and it doesn't run or if it is extremely buggy, you can't return it.

Games are released in extremely buggy states these days. Just in the last week there are two games that released buggy as hell Skyrim and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7. Skyrim has serious framerate and texture issues plus a few broken quests as I understand and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7 on the PC won't even run because of faulty DRM.

Now tell me, if you bought a car that kept slowing down to 20 MPH or that wouldn't even start, what would you do? I'll bet you would demand a test drive before you buy a car anyway and isn't that all that people are asking for here?

I understand, but a demo isn't some right that we all have, if you can't get a demo and your not sure then don't buy the game, and while there are no lemon laws for game any dev who actually cares about the customer will put out a free patch, or a helpful gamer will.

The point still stands, a lack of a demo doesn't justify what is essentially theft.

No one has argued that demos are a right but that is irrelevant since most things in general are not a right. However, day one patches have become all too common and that shows just how careless devs have become. Last gen and before there were no patches and the game simply had to work out of the box. Even though games can be patched, they aren't always patched. For example, guess who fixed Oblivion and guess who didn't? Bethesda wasn't shy about selling you Horse Armor but actually patching the game is something they largely left to the mod community.

You can demo most products, want to try out that new TV? Buy it and if it sucks, take it back for a refund. What's wrong with people doing the internet equivalent of that for software?

A demo of a TV and a demo of a video game are really quite different, a TV is a completed physical product, when you demo it you are basically just borrowing the TV you may or may not buy, you aren't borrowing a part of the TV while the rest is still in developement.

And I agree on your point about refunds, if you buy a thing and it's shit get a refund, but you have to pay for something to get a refund, if you pirate a game and you don't like it than you just stole something that you turned out not to like, so why not just buy it? Best case scenario it's money well spent, worst case you get your money back.

As for digital copies, well I've never bought a digital copy of a game in my life so I really don't know if refunds are applicable to that line of thinking, but even then you can just but the game for PC and install it off the disc.

But honestly are we going to agree on this matter any time soon? Because we've been going back and forth for like 2 or 3 days now.

I love the "but video games are different than every other product in existance and should have special anti-consumer rules" argument. You do too I see.

Let me explain the whole refund thing to you. I buy a TV, it costs $1000, it sucks so I take it back and get my $1000 back. I am out $0. I download a game, it sucks, I delete it, I am out $0. I buy a game, it sucks, I can't return it, I am out $60.

Game companies want you to buy blind but you don't have to. If they want to discourage honest people from downloading a full game demo, they should make a demo for honest people to download.

I really do just love that argument, I just wanna cozy on up to it by the fireplace, but back to the matter at hand.

Where are you getting your games at? Because I always get a refund for shit games, do you exclusively download digital copies? And besides, what if you pirate the game and you like it, do you just not buy it and keep the stolen version? Because that's kind of shitty.

If you actually do want to buy it after pirating I guess that's not to bad, but I highly doubt many people would go out to buy a good game they already pirated. If you really want to know if you'll like a game before you buy it you can always rent it like most normal people would, you can rent a game for a week for under 5 bucks, or you can use Redbox or Gamefly or Blockbuster.

I completely understand that you want to test drive a game before buying it, and I really love demos, but just because you don't get a demo doesn't mean you have to resort to theft.

I buy physical copies at places like Wal Mart, Best Buy, Target, etc... None of those places will take back an opened game for a refund. PC games won't be taken back at all if opened. Console games can be exchanged for the same title. Those are the industry standards.

We are talking about people who pirate a game so they can demo it, not people who pirate a game to keep. Two different groups of people but there are overlaps. In fact, once a person has been introduced to piracy because of nasty DRM or to see if a game will run on their PC, there's no going back. The shit cannot be put back in the horse at that point. Once you've done something once and learned how, it's easier the second time and that is the number one reason why devs should make demos and why nasty DRM should be avoided.

Sorry, back to the group of people who just want to demo the game (for free as a demo should be). Those people are just refusing to buy blind and think they are smart people. Smarter than me actually since I have dropped alot of money on bad games over the years.

Can you rent a PC game to see if it runs well on your PC? Suggesting renting to people who pirate PC games is pointless.

Which is worse, devs requiring you to buy blind or you downloading a game to demo it and then buying it?

I understand that people will pirate to demo, but do you honestly think that people like that exist in any great number? Because I sure don't.

Buy your games from Gamestop from now on by the way, you have 7 days to decide if you like the game and you can get 100% refund. We can debate the merits of second hand games too if you feel like it.

All I'm saying is that there are better ways of seeing if you'll like the game than pirating, honestly we can go on for days as we already have, I know nothing you will say is likely to persuade me, I say we just agree to disagree while we're still civil.

I'll be in Gamestop tomorrow to pick up Zelda and I will ask them if they will accept returns for opened PC games. I already know the answer but I'll ask anyway. Here's a hint: Gamestop doesn't sell used PC games and they won't let you return them either.

Having never bought a PC game from Gamestop I didn't know that little nugget of truth, good day.

You buy a game on console, you know it's going to work (excluding Bethesda games on the PS3). On PC it isn't that simple and often the specs are complete BS. Still, once you take that leap of faith, your stuck with it. There are no refunds and no second hand market.

My PC specs are atleast double the recommended (not minimum) specs for Lego Pirates but by the time I turned all the graphics down (had no choice) to "below Wii quality", it still had framerate issues in the hub area. It should be illegal to publish false specs but it happens all the time. Lego Pirates did have a demo but I think the hub area wasn't in the demo, the laggiest area of the game.

Well the matter of falsifying specs is a completely different one than pirating, although I see how one could lead to the other, that doesn't change the fact that this little debate has dragged on for too long.

Absolutely it leads to piracy. Getting burned because the minimum specs are way off and you can't even run a game (whilst you also can't take it back) only needs to happen once to make a person less trusting and less likely to buy blindly. In fact, I think this debate exists largely because people don't trust the specs on the box anymore.

My god, it's like the end of Watchmen, I'm Ozymandias and you're Night Owl, I no longer give a shit but you just keep going hoping I'll start debating you again, I'm done with this conversation, we've been going for 2 days and neither of us has swayed the other, I'm dropping it, you may want to as well or the debate will become very one-sided.

Why did you even respond? Had to have the last word?

 

[Robert Ewing]

I looked at this thread name and lol'd.

But then I remembered some legislation loopholes that are quite well known.

Basically, if one is caught with pirated software that isn't an official build, you can actually claim it was for testing purposes, then you are completely innocent. Truefact.

I'm not going to tell y'all how to pull this off successfully, as there are some other things you need to do to the software to make it viable.






OT: No, don't pirate because of lack of demo's.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

That's like saying "If a car dealer doesn't let me test drive this sedan is it ok to steal it?" Unless there is literally no way to legally obtain a game you have no right to pirate it.

I'm not going to march around with a picket sign saying that pirating is litterally the worst thing for the industry, but unless you absolutly need something and you cannot obtain it through proper channels then you shouldn't steal it.

Where cars are concerned, there are Lemon Laws.

I'm sure you got the point, just because you can't try something out before purchasing it doesn't give you a right to steal it.

I am sure you missed the point. Software does not have Lemon Laws so if you buy a game that should run on your PC (you are at or above the min specs) and it doesn't run or if it is extremely buggy, you can't return it.

Games are released in extremely buggy states these days. Just in the last week there are two games that released buggy as hell Skyrim and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7. Skyrim has serious framerate and texture issues plus a few broken quests as I understand and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7 on the PC won't even run because of faulty DRM.

Now tell me, if you bought a car that kept slowing down to 20 MPH or that wouldn't even start, what would you do? I'll bet you would demand a test drive before you buy a car anyway and isn't that all that people are asking for here?

I understand, but a demo isn't some right that we all have, if you can't get a demo and your not sure then don't buy the game, and while there are no lemon laws for game any dev who actually cares about the customer will put out a free patch, or a helpful gamer will.

The point still stands, a lack of a demo doesn't justify what is essentially theft.

No one has argued that demos are a right but that is irrelevant since most things in general are not a right. However, day one patches have become all too common and that shows just how careless devs have become. Last gen and before there were no patches and the game simply had to work out of the box. Even though games can be patched, they aren't always patched. For example, guess who fixed Oblivion and guess who didn't? Bethesda wasn't shy about selling you Horse Armor but actually patching the game is something they largely left to the mod community.

You can demo most products, want to try out that new TV? Buy it and if it sucks, take it back for a refund. What's wrong with people doing the internet equivalent of that for software?

A demo of a TV and a demo of a video game are really quite different, a TV is a completed physical product, when you demo it you are basically just borrowing the TV you may or may not buy, you aren't borrowing a part of the TV while the rest is still in developement.

And I agree on your point about refunds, if you buy a thing and it's shit get a refund, but you have to pay for something to get a refund, if you pirate a game and you don't like it than you just stole something that you turned out not to like, so why not just buy it? Best case scenario it's money well spent, worst case you get your money back.

As for digital copies, well I've never bought a digital copy of a game in my life so I really don't know if refunds are applicable to that line of thinking, but even then you can just but the game for PC and install it off the disc.

But honestly are we going to agree on this matter any time soon? Because we've been going back and forth for like 2 or 3 days now.

I love the "but video games are different than every other product in existance and should have special anti-consumer rules" argument. You do too I see.

Let me explain the whole refund thing to you. I buy a TV, it costs $1000, it sucks so I take it back and get my $1000 back. I am out $0. I download a game, it sucks, I delete it, I am out $0. I buy a game, it sucks, I can't return it, I am out $60.

Game companies want you to buy blind but you don't have to. If they want to discourage honest people from downloading a full game demo, they should make a demo for honest people to download.

I really do just love that argument, I just wanna cozy on up to it by the fireplace, but back to the matter at hand.

Where are you getting your games at? Because I always get a refund for shit games, do you exclusively download digital copies? And besides, what if you pirate the game and you like it, do you just not buy it and keep the stolen version? Because that's kind of shitty.

If you actually do want to buy it after pirating I guess that's not to bad, but I highly doubt many people would go out to buy a good game they already pirated. If you really want to know if you'll like a game before you buy it you can always rent it like most normal people would, you can rent a game for a week for under 5 bucks, or you can use Redbox or Gamefly or Blockbuster.

I completely understand that you want to test drive a game before buying it, and I really love demos, but just because you don't get a demo doesn't mean you have to resort to theft.

I buy physical copies at places like Wal Mart, Best Buy, Target, etc... None of those places will take back an opened game for a refund. PC games won't be taken back at all if opened. Console games can be exchanged for the same title. Those are the industry standards.

We are talking about people who pirate a game so they can demo it, not people who pirate a game to keep. Two different groups of people but there are overlaps. In fact, once a person has been introduced to piracy because of nasty DRM or to see if a game will run on their PC, there's no going back. The shit cannot be put back in the horse at that point. Once you've done something once and learned how, it's easier the second time and that is the number one reason why devs should make demos and why nasty DRM should be avoided.

Sorry, back to the group of people who just want to demo the game (for free as a demo should be). Those people are just refusing to buy blind and think they are smart people. Smarter than me actually since I have dropped alot of money on bad games over the years.

Can you rent a PC game to see if it runs well on your PC? Suggesting renting to people who pirate PC games is pointless.

Which is worse, devs requiring you to buy blind or you downloading a game to demo it and then buying it?

I understand that people will pirate to demo, but do you honestly think that people like that exist in any great number? Because I sure don't.

Buy your games from Gamestop from now on by the way, you have 7 days to decide if you like the game and you can get 100% refund. We can debate the merits of second hand games too if you feel like it.

All I'm saying is that there are better ways of seeing if you'll like the game than pirating, honestly we can go on for days as we already have, I know nothing you will say is likely to persuade me, I say we just agree to disagree while we're still civil.

I'll be in Gamestop tomorrow to pick up Zelda and I will ask them if they will accept returns for opened PC games. I already know the answer but I'll ask anyway. Here's a hint: Gamestop doesn't sell used PC games and they won't let you return them either.

Having never bought a PC game from Gamestop I didn't know that little nugget of truth, good day.

You buy a game on console, you know it's going to work (excluding Bethesda games on the PS3). On PC it isn't that simple and often the specs are complete BS. Still, once you take that leap of faith, your stuck with it. There are no refunds and no second hand market.

My PC specs are atleast double the recommended (not minimum) specs for Lego Pirates but by the time I turned all the graphics down (had no choice) to "below Wii quality", it still had framerate issues in the hub area. It should be illegal to publish false specs but it happens all the time. Lego Pirates did have a demo but I think the hub area wasn't in the demo, the laggiest area of the game.

Well the matter of falsifying specs is a completely different one than pirating, although I see how one could lead to the other, that doesn't change the fact that this little debate has dragged on for too long.

Absolutely it leads to piracy. Getting burned because the minimum specs are way off and you can't even run a game (whilst you also can't take it back) only needs to happen once to make a person less trusting and less likely to buy blindly. In fact, I think this debate exists largely because people don't trust the specs on the box anymore.

My god, it's like the end of Watchmen, I'm Ozymandias and you're Night Owl, I no longer give a shit but you just keep going hoping I'll start debating you again, I'm done with this conversation, we've been going for 2 days and neither of us has swayed the other, I'm dropping it, you may want to as well or the debate will become very one-sided.

Why did you even respond? Had to have the last word?

Just wanted to make it clear, have a nice day.

 

[Epona]

So I had this come up in a debate with my friend, if a gaming company doesn't provide a demo for a game is it ok to pirate it, to try it out for yourself?

That's like saying "If a car dealer doesn't let me test drive this sedan is it ok to steal it?" Unless there is literally no way to legally obtain a game you have no right to pirate it.

I'm not going to march around with a picket sign saying that pirating is litterally the worst thing for the industry, but unless you absolutly need something and you cannot obtain it through proper channels then you shouldn't steal it.

Where cars are concerned, there are Lemon Laws.

I'm sure you got the point, just because you can't try something out before purchasing it doesn't give you a right to steal it.

I am sure you missed the point. Software does not have Lemon Laws so if you buy a game that should run on your PC (you are at or above the min specs) and it doesn't run or if it is extremely buggy, you can't return it.

Games are released in extremely buggy states these days. Just in the last week there are two games that released buggy as hell Skyrim and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7. Skyrim has serious framerate and texture issues plus a few broken quests as I understand and Lego Harry Potter Years 5-7 on the PC won't even run because of faulty DRM.

Now tell me, if you bought a car that kept slowing down to 20 MPH or that wouldn't even start, what would you do? I'll bet you would demand a test drive before you buy a car anyway and isn't that all that people are asking for here?

I understand, but a demo isn't some right that we all have, if you can't get a demo and your not sure then don't buy the game, and while there are no lemon laws for game any dev who actually cares about the customer will put out a free patch, or a helpful gamer will.

The point still stands, a lack of a demo doesn't justify what is essentially theft.

No one has argued that demos are a right but that is irrelevant since most things in general are not a right. However, day one patches have become all too common and that shows just how careless devs have become. Last gen and before there were no patches and the game simply had to work out of the box. Even though games can be patched, they aren't always patched. For example, guess who fixed Oblivion and guess who didn't? Bethesda wasn't shy about selling you Horse Armor but actually patching the game is something they largely left to the mod community.

You can demo most products, want to try out that new TV? Buy it and if it sucks, take it back for a refund. What's wrong with people doing the internet equivalent of that for software?

A demo of a TV and a demo of a video game are really quite different, a TV is a completed physical product, when you demo it you are basically just borrowing the TV you may or may not buy, you aren't borrowing a part of the TV while the rest is still in developement.

And I agree on your point about refunds, if you buy a thing and it's shit get a refund, but you have to pay for something to get a refund, if you pirate a game and you don't like it than you just stole something that you turned out not to like, so why not just buy it? Best case scenario it's money well spent, worst case you get your money back.

As for digital copies, well I've never bought a digital copy of a game in my life so I really don't know if refunds are applicable to that line of thinking, but even then you can just but the game for PC and install it off the disc.

But honestly are we going to agree on this matter any time soon? Because we've been going back and forth for like 2 or 3 days now.

I love the "but video games are different than every other product in existance and should have special anti-consumer rules" argument. You do too I see.

Let me explain the whole refund thing to you. I buy a TV, it costs $1000, it sucks so I take it back and get my $1000 back. I am out $0. I download a game, it sucks, I delete it, I am out $0. I buy a game, it sucks, I can't return it, I am out $60.

Game companies want you to buy blind but you don't have to. If they want to discourage honest people from downloading a full game demo, they should make a demo for honest people to download.

I really do just love that argument, I just wanna cozy on up to it by the fireplace, but back to the matter at hand.

Where are you getting your games at? Because I always get a refund for shit games, do you exclusively download digital copies? And besides, what if you pirate the game and you like it, do you just not buy it and keep the stolen version? Because that's kind of shitty.

If you actually do want to buy it after pirating I guess that's not to bad, but I highly doubt many people would go out to buy a good game they already pirated. If you really want to know if you'll like a game before you buy it you can always rent it like most normal people would, you can rent a game for a week for under 5 bucks, or you can use Redbox or Gamefly or Blockbuster.

I completely understand that you want to test drive a game before buying it, and I really love demos, but just because you don't get a demo doesn't mean you have to resort to theft.

I buy physical copies at places like Wal Mart, Best Buy, Target, etc... None of those places will take back an opened game for a refund. PC games won't be taken back at all if opened. Console games can be exchanged for the same title. Those are the industry standards.

We are talking about people who pirate a game so they can demo it, not people who pirate a game to keep. Two different groups of people but there are overlaps. In fact, once a person has been introduced to piracy because of nasty DRM or to see if a game will run on their PC, there's no going back. The shit cannot be put back in the horse at that point. Once you've done something once and learned how, it's easier the second time and that is the number one reason why devs should make demos and why nasty DRM should be avoided.

Sorry, back to the group of people who just want to demo the game (for free as a demo should be). Those people are just refusing to buy blind and think they are smart people. Smarter than me actually since I have dropped alot of money on bad games over the years.

Can you rent a PC game to see if it runs well on your PC? Suggesting renting to people who pirate PC games is pointless.

Which is worse, devs requiring you to buy blind or you downloading a game to demo it and then buying it?

I understand that people will pirate to demo, but do you honestly think that people like that exist in any great number? Because I sure don't.

Buy your games from Gamestop from now on by the way, you have 7 days to decide if you like the game and you can get 100% refund. We can debate the merits of second hand games too if you feel like it.

All I'm saying is that there are better ways of seeing if you'll like the game than pirating, honestly we can go on for days as we already have, I know nothing you will say is likely to persuade me, I say we just agree to disagree while we're still civil.

I'll be in Gamestop tomorrow to pick up Zelda and I will ask them if they will accept returns for opened PC games. I already know the answer but I'll ask anyway. Here's a hint: Gamestop doesn't sell used PC games and they won't let you return them either.

Having never bought a PC game from Gamestop I didn't know that little nugget of truth, good day.

You buy a game on console, you know it's going to work (excluding Bethesda games on the PS3). On PC it isn't that simple and often the specs are complete BS. Still, once you take that leap of faith, your stuck with it. There are no refunds and no second hand market.

My PC specs are atleast double the recommended (not minimum) specs for Lego Pirates but by the time I turned all the graphics down (had no choice) to "below Wii quality", it still had framerate issues in the hub area. It should be illegal to publish false specs but it happens all the time. Lego Pirates did have a demo but I think the hub area wasn't in the demo, the laggiest area of the game.

Well the matter of falsifying specs is a completely different one than pirating, although I see how one could lead to the other, that doesn't change the fact that this little debate has dragged on for too long.

Absolutely it leads to piracy. Getting burned because the minimum specs are way off and you can't even run a game (whilst you also can't take it back) only needs to happen once to make a person less trusting and less likely to buy blindly. In fact, I think this debate exists largely because people don't trust the specs on the box anymore.

My god, it's like the end of Watchmen, I'm Ozymandias and you're Night Owl, I no longer give a shit but you just keep going hoping I'll start debating you again, I'm done with this conversation, we've been going for 2 days and neither of us has swayed the other, I'm dropping it, you may want to as well or the debate will become very one-sided.

Why did you even respond? Had to have the last word?

Just wanted to make it clear, have a nice day.

Well, did it ever occur to you that this is a public thread and that posts are read by more than just you? So maybe I was answering you (which is why I quoted you) while not talking to you alone? Just something to think about, no need to respond.

 

[The Floating Nose]

nope.

there are no valid reasons for piracy.

it's always up to you whether or not you think you're comfortable with doing it, but there aren't any excuses that make it "ok".

If you've bought a CD, then your idiot brother comes and breaks it before I get to play it, do I have to buy it again? I've already given my money to the developers.

Bring your receipt to where you bought it and they'll give you another copy.

 

[Krm3lg4r73n]

Legally: Don't steal.

Morally I think there are two different scenarios to be considered here:
1. You would buy the game if you wouldn't pirate it.
2. You would NOT buy the game if you wouldn't pirate it.

I would argue that it's also morally wrong to pirate given scenario 1.
The publisher will loose your purchase if you dislike the game.
This is literally just like stealing the apple/ferrari, because in scenario 1 you would be buying the game after all.
So your 60$ could be counted as though they belonged to the publisher already.
But this very money is now still in your pocket just because you performed a criminal deed -> theft

Even IF you would be conned by the publisher into buying a game you won't enjoy doesn't give you the right
to fight wrong with wrong, I believe. Not if you want to keep the moral highground.

To me though scenario 2 is by far the more interresting one.
Either you hate the game you don't buy it but then you wouldn't have done so anyways... no harm done.
Or you really like the game then you don't get to miss out on the experience and the
publisher makes some extra money.

I can't really see the downside there.


PS: My first ever Escapist Forum Post.

 

[Epona]

Legally: Don't steal.

Morally I think there are two different scenarios to be considered here:
1. You would buy the game if you wouldn't pirate it.
2. You would NOT buy the game if you wouldn't pirate it.

I would argue that it's also morally wrong to pirate given scenario 1.
The publisher will loose your purchase if you dislike the game.
This is literally just like stealing the apple/ferrari, because in scenario 1 you would be buying the game after all.
So your 60$ could be counted as though they belonged to the publisher already.
But this very money is now still in your pocket just because you performed a criminal deed -> theft

Even IF you would be conned by the publisher into buying a game you won't enjoy doesn't give you the right
to fight wrong with wrong, I believe. Not if you want to keep the moral highground.

To me though scenario 2 is by far the more interresting one.
Either you hate the game you don't buy it but then you wouldn't have done so anyways... no harm done.
Or you really like the game then you don't get to miss out on the experience and the
publisher makes some extra money.

I can't really see the downside there.


PS: My first ever Escapist Forum Post.

In scenario 1, the person would narrowly escape getting ripped off by buying blind because they pirated it and found out that it sucked or would run on their PC. How is that morally wrong while it isn't morally wrong to trick that same buyer into wasting $60 on a blind purchase?

 

[Krm3lg4r73n]

In scenario 1, the person would narrowly escape getting ripped off by buying blind because they pirated it and found out that it sucked or would run on their PC. How is that morally wrong while it isn't morally wrong to trick that same buyer into wasting $60 on a blind purchase?

I didn't say that it's morally ok for the publisher to trick someone.
What I tried to say is that you shouldn't step down to this level yourself even if you gained the chance of not beeing tricked.

But that's really where it comes down to personal belief, I guess.

 

[Epona]

In scenario 1, the person would narrowly escape getting ripped off by buying blind because they pirated it and found out that it sucked or would run on their PC. How is that morally wrong while it isn't morally wrong to trick that same buyer into wasting $60 on a blind purchase?

I didn't say that it's morally ok for the publisher to trick someone.
What I tried to say is that you shouldn't step down to this level yourself even if you gained the chance of not beeing tricked.

But that's really where it comes down to personal belief, I guess.

I don't consider being an informed consumer to be a low level.

 

[Krm3lg4r73n]

In scenario 1, the person would narrowly escape getting ripped off by buying blind because they pirated it and found out that it sucked or would run on their PC. How is that morally wrong while it isn't morally wrong to trick that same buyer into wasting $60 on a blind purchase?

I didn't say that it's morally ok for the publisher to trick someone.
What I tried to say is that you shouldn't step down to this level yourself even if you gained the chance of not beeing tricked.

But that's really where it comes down to personal belief, I guess.

I don't consider being an informed consumer to be a low level.

Yeah that's the question: Can you consider piracy a viable form of customer information?

 

[Batou667]

Then youre an idiot for buying a $60 apple. Im sure you wouldnt expect a furniture shop to put a sofa in your flat to see how it looks before you bought it, doesnt mean you should steal it on the offchance you dont like it.

No, but you're allowed to go into the showroom and sit on the sofa to see if it's comfortable.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Yes it is. Especially in this day and age when they want to outlaw used sales so you're stuck with a shitty game forever. It's completely justified. If they don't release a demo of their product, you have the right to try it to see if it's worth your money. If the game sucks it's $60 you'll never get back after all. If developers and publishers have the right to protect their profit, so do we. You want capitalism, there you have it. Why should it be exclusive to businesses? In the end of the day, I care about myself first, then the developer and everyone else involved in the making of games.

 

[Epona]

In scenario 1, the person would narrowly escape getting ripped off by buying blind because they pirated it and found out that it sucked or would run on their PC. How is that morally wrong while it isn't morally wrong to trick that same buyer into wasting $60 on a blind purchase?

I didn't say that it's morally ok for the publisher to trick someone.
What I tried to say is that you shouldn't step down to this level yourself even if you gained the chance of not beeing tricked.

But that's really where it comes down to personal belief, I guess.

I don't consider being an informed consumer to be a low level.

Yeah that's the question: Can you consider piracy a viable form of customer information?

Absolutely. In just as much as going to a friends house to try out a game that you didn't pay for is.

 

[Frankster]

This topic has me in stitches as there isn't much of a moral dilemna here in my eyes.

Let's not kid ourselves, doesn't matter whether company provides demo or not, that's just a convenient excuse to "try out" a new game for a weekend or so
I know cos this is what most of us did this back in the day when blockbuster was king,we would pay a small sum of money to rent a game for 2 days, with the option of buying it if we wanted to.

90% of the time we didn't buy it after the trial period, for a whole host of reasons.
But we didn't really have to wrestle with moral dilemnas as our trial was 100% legal.