If body language is an important part of communication can online friends count as fully social?

[rossatdi]

If body language is an important part of communication can online friends count as full social relationships?

Often I hear in the course of debates on this site that playing games online (both MMORPGs and others such as Left 4 Dead) is a social act, one of interaction with other people. This point is most commonly made in reference to the infamous World of Warcraft = No social life argument.

Understandably WoW players, and other MMORPG players, would argue that a large amount of their time is spent raiding with their guilds or similar, and could therefore be considered 'doing something with friends'.

It is generally considered that body language is a very important part of communication (sometimes rated as high as 60+% in certain situations) and this is obviously the one part of communication that has not transferred into avatar gaming.

Unfortunately the wiki page is relatively scant for body language but it does interest me in relation to these online games. Without more than words & tone people get to know each other, hell sometimes it happens only with text.

I would have thought this comes specially with the occasional WoW weddings/datings you get. Have people experienced a massive shock upon meeting someone they thought they knew?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_language

Hypothesis: If we assume that body language is a very significant part of social interaction then online friendship that utilise an avatar cannot be considered 'true' social relationships.

 

[jamesworkshop]

I only see that working with an additional statement that face to face interaction is the only true form of social interaction and that anything less is of inferior quality or cannot be considered the complete experience (less valid)

 

[Markness]

Social relationships http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_relationships#Types_of_social_relations
Im pretty sure it still counts. Definitely not as intense as talking to someone, even someone on the phone but It still is one.

In regard to the first line, I'd agree with you. Unless you are actually friends with the people in the MMO, talked to them about deeper issues then where to raid and taken it outside the game, Id say its about as social as buying some chips at the local store. I don't really think its the body language per se, for example there are other factors such as you don't have time to formulate the response that you would like to display yourself as, and in real life you have to be conscious of more than just words.

 

[TheButtonMashEffect]

Most of the people i play online with anywhere are my friends that i have been to college with or i just know. So really in a way it is just another way of socializing with your friends.

 

[Same River New Water]

Everything is a shade of grey. Online friends are well into the grey area, but everything has its place along the scale. Are work friends fully social, since you're in an artificial, usually unsociable environment? Can you ever be fully social with an introvert, since being friendly feels forced to them? Is it possible to be fully social in a snowstorm? Etc. etc.

 

[Mariena]

Surely emotes make up for some of it?

 

[medievalguy]

I think they would count, but yeah, it's a gray area. I know a girl who was friends with a Kiwi for years online, and one day he came and visited her in person and everything was really awkward... so I dunno. Plus, don't forget things like Skype and Ventrilo. At least on there you still get to hear tone of voice and inflection, so there is more information being sent than just text.

 

[WolfLordAndy]

Surely emotes make up for some of it?

Yeah, this is what I would have said, you have emotes and smilies help fill in a certain amount of body language. But I think its a bit more social when you play games with voice chat systems like teamspeak or vent. This means you are actually talking to them, not just reading and typing text on screen. I've met a number of my clan mates in real life at a small LAN we had, and it all went fine and was great fun, appart from the fact about half of them love smoking! (Which I knew already, with the constant "brb, smoke")

 

[Jursa]

A long time ago people invented a thing called language, after that waving their hands around like crazy chimps was no longer necessary to communicate...

 

[Jandau]

People I know only online rate lower on my social scale by default. People whom I only know as their avatars in MMOs can't be considered truly friends. They are acquaintances, at best they are in the early stages of friendship. But it can't go beyond that for me without face to face contact. I do enjoy online social interaction, but I can't value it nearly as highly as real life interaction.

That being said, the argument that games are a social activity still stands. Playing with real life friends is simply an extension of your relationships into virtual space. Even interacting with people you only know online is valuable as any positive social interaction is beneficial, at least for variety's sake.

 

[Wargamer]

A long time ago people invented a thing called language, after that waving their hands around like crazy chimps was no longer necessary to communicate...

Except that 'language' is primarily vocal, not written. The written language is actually very BAD at conveying information.

For example, I'm going to convey three different concepts vocally, to myself (nobody else will hear) and I shall type exactly what I say.

Halo 3 rocks.
Halo 3 rocks.
Halo 3 rocks.

The first one was genuine praise, the second was a sarcastic put-down of the game, the third a belittling mockery of a Halo 3 gamer. The reason you can't tell is because language doesn't convey that.

We can try, however. Generally, italics or CAPS are used to add emphasis, but that doesn't really help either. I mean, just by posting "Halo 3 ROCKS!" or "Halo 3 rocks!" you don't automatically assume I'm taking the piss. We can convey over-emphasis by using the italics a lot, but even then you must have been told that the italics are done to mock.

Most things people say, when written, come across as rude or confrontational. This is because when you speak, you get the tone of voice.

Classic example; "Why didn't you ring me last night?" Said in person, you use a light, soft tone of voice to make it clear this is a polite enquiry. Written down, it looks quite abrupt.

 

[Jursa]

A long time ago people invented a thing called language, after that waving their hands around like crazy chimps was no longer necessary to communicate...

Except that 'language' is primarily vocal, not written. The written language is actually very BAD at conveying information.

For example, I'm going to convey three different concepts vocally, to myself (nobody else will hear) and I shall type exactly what I say.

Halo 3 rocks.
Halo 3 rocks.
Halo 3 rocks.

The first one was genuine praise, the second was a sarcastic put-down of the game, the third a belittling mockery of a Halo 3 gamer. The reason you can't tell is because language doesn't convey that.

We can try, however. Generally, italics or CAPS are used to add emphasis, but that doesn't really help either. I mean, just by posting "Halo 3 ROCKS!" or "Halo 3 rocks!" you don't automatically assume I'm taking the piss. We can convey over-emphasis by using the italics a lot, but even then you must have been told that the italics are done to mock.

Most things people say, when written, come across as rude or confrontational. This is because when you speak, you get the tone of voice.

Classic example; "Why didn't you ring me last night?" Said in person, you use a light, soft tone of voice to make it clear this is a polite enquiry. Written down, it looks quite abrupt.

Errrr... he was talking about body language, and teamspeak, ventrillo or ingame mic programs kinda kill the whole previous ...

 

[Wargamer]

God bless those who miss the point.

My post shows that, viewing spoken language alone, it is impossible for written language to convey all the meaning of the orated word.

Body language is another area entirely. It is actually linked with spoken language; we tend not to sit still while speaking. Our hands, our head, our eyes, our whole body speaks volumes, and often conveys more than whatever is coming out of our mouth. Someone who doesn't catch your eye when asked a question is probably lying, or embarrassed about the answer. Someone who fidgets is likewise nervous. Someone who scowls, makes fists and so on is angry. Without saying a word, you can convey a great deal of information.

Even with a Headset and access to Live, the best most people seem to manage is make themselves out to be an absolute cuntbag. Of course, the Squeakers probably ARE cuntbags, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ike_luv]

Yeah the simple answer I have is no. Take 5 minutes in person, and 5 minutes on MSN (for example), how much of a conversation could you get out of each situation in total...? Although MSN is "social", I find it hard to believe that someone would ever truly believe it can substitute a true conversation.

 

[rossatdi]

God bless those who miss the point.

My post shows that, viewing spoken language alone, it is impossible for written language to convey all the meaning of the orated word.

Body language is another area entirely. It is actually linked with spoken language; we tend not to sit still while speaking. Our hands, our head, our eyes, our whole body speaks volumes, and often conveys more than whatever is coming out of our mouth. Someone who doesn't catch your eye when asked a question is probably lying, or embarrassed about the answer. Someone who fidgets is likewise nervous. Someone who scowls, makes fists and so on is angry. Without saying a word, you can convey a great deal of information.

Even with a Headset and access to Live, the best most people seem to manage is make themselves out to be an absolute cuntbag. Of course, the Squeakers probably ARE cuntbags, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

Wayhay! Someone got the point!

 

[Theo Samaritan]

A long time ago people invented a thing called language, after that waving their hands around like crazy chimps was no longer necessary to communicate...

You say that, try talking to someone without moving your body at all. See how unnatural that is?

I personally think that after long enough within internet communities, people start enhancing their vocabulary when concerning text chat, or their pronunciation when concerning voice, in order to bring more across than they would otherwise.

Of course it is not a direct transference and it is never as good as real body language but it helps plug the gap.

 

[rossatdi]

A long time ago people invented a thing called language, after that waving their hands around like crazy chimps was no longer necessary to communicate...

You say that, try talking to someone without moving your body at all. See how unnatural that is?

I personally think that after long enough within internet communities, people start enhancing their vocabulary when concerning text chat, or their pronunciation when concerning voice, in order to bring more across than they would otherwise.

Of course it is not a direct transference and it is never as good as real body language but it helps plug the gap.

I think the real problem with the [/enhanced text] is that its totally manufactured. Body language is very hard to control even if you wanted to. That's probably why it forms such a substantial part of our inter-person communications.

 

[Wargamer]

I think this is why the abominations that are "txt tlk", "l33t" and "AOLspeek" are so fucked up.

Whereas you can get away with pretty basic language face to face, extending your vocabulary online is very, very useful. People might bemoan the use of 'smart words' like colloquial, rotund, narcissistic and contrafibularities, but using the full extent of the Dictionary, or a delightfully Blackadder-esque disinfunctiation, allows the conveyance of a much wider scope of concepts.

Indeed, one of the truly, truly brilliant things about our language is the ability to say absolutely anything, and still convey meaning. For example, let's take swearing. Fuck, shit, ****, crap - short, sharp, aggressive words. I yell "Someone fuck up the sniper!" into your ear via the headset, and you know I want the enemy sniper dead. Likewise, I'm willing to bet if I yell "someone frak the sniper!" you can at least guess that 'frak' means kill, or murder, or sexually assault.

Likewise, taking the time to spell things out, particularly when using text to communicate, feels more significant. Having someone actually take the time to type in correct English in response to an action or query makes you feel very good. It also removes any error. Let us take our game again. Which would you prefer?
"pwn rd twr!"
or
"Kill the Sniper in the red tower!"

The latter leaves no room for confusion; you know exactly what is expected of you.


Anyway, to return to my initial statements, one of the wondrous things using 'big words' does is that it changes how people read your post. Generally speaking, being very 'wordy' is associated with intelligence. Of course, people who appear to be 'putting on' their intelligence by an exhaustive over-use of flowery language are typically mocked, but a few nuggets of linguistic gold here and there help make your comments appear far more sophisticated.

Now I'm going to stop, because I've largely forgotten what point I was trying to get across. What an embuggerance.

 

[peterwolfe]

I always kinda assumed that emoticon were used to take the place of body language...