If I hear "Just doing my bit for the environment" one more time then I'm going to flip.

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Nugoo

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Jan 25, 2008
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werepossum said:
There's no way anyone could call that accurate, either. Figures on the exact man-made contribution to global CO2 levels vary, but they vary between 2% and 5%, with 3% being the figure I personally attribute with the most accuracy. There's no way to exactly know the world's natural production because CO2 is being constantly created and absorbed by myriad natural processes, but man-made contribution is nowhere near 20%. Advocates of CAGW play a shell game by citing theoretical man-made contributions to the increase in CO2 concentration rather than the tiny percentage of man-made contributions. The concept is that Earth is perfectly balanced and can absorb naturally occurring increases in CO2, but not man-made CO2 contributions. (Or that 'Gaea' is sentient and trying to kill us off by not absorbing man-made CO2 contributions - sometimes it's hard to follow the logic. lol)
My statement, at least with regard to specific numbers, was in response to the TIME article, not any sort of researched fact. My point was that people who portray a single person's impact as insignificant tend to overlook the effect of many people's impact.
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Nugoo said:
Humans get shit done.
Humans also fuck shit up.
Yep. Usually at the same time.
 

YuppySlime

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Apr 28, 2008
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Break said:
Come on, Yuppyslime. Who says we have all the answers? Who says we can actually fix the planet? If there's the slightest chance that doing something as easy as putting your coke cans in a different bin can help anything, why the hell wouldn't you? Sure, we can't do anything to prevent ourselves from eventually being baked alive in our own little oven-planet, but it's basic instinct to string that process out for as long as we can.

Sure, we don't know that we're responsible for global warming. But you sure as hell don't know for certain that humans have nothing to do with it. Considering the stakes, and the fact that the sacrifices you're being asked to make mean absolutely nothing to you at all, you may as well er on the side of caution. That's why it's laziness.
I'm not gonna lie, you got me there. I guess its just different for me personally because I think we're all doomed sooner than later and NOT due to global warming (I'm not saying it doesn't exist) but to other shit.

But yeah, you got me. There's really nothing I have to counter that [yet ;)] Congrats dude, great argument.
 

JDLY

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Jun 21, 2008
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YuppySlime said:
But yeah, you got me. There's really nothing I have to counter that [yet ;)] Congrats dude, great argument.
*Sigh*
If only we all (including me) could just say that more often.
 

zari

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Sep 19, 2007
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For what it's worth, I read it.
Shame that I'd say most modern, fuel-efficient cars aren't that affordable.

Anyway, that's all beside the point, which was someone being narky about people 'doing their bit' and reducing their use of plastic bags. Funny how suddenly the thread takes a 90 degree turn (but hey, it's a forum so what do you expect really).

I just wanted to say how sad it makes me that there are so many "fuck 'em, I won't be around to deal with it" attitudes out there, alongside the "most other people are doing it so it won't matter if I do too" ones.

Even if you ignore the energy concerns, fewer plastic bags being dumped into landfill or just left around is a good thing. Re-using existing plastic bags or using more rugged bags (like the ones the companies would just love you to buy) multiple times is hardly going to hurt the environment, and so, no matter your personal bigotry, they are doing their bit.
 

Uncle Comrade

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Feb 28, 2008
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I remember a while ago, one of the free London papers ran a story about a man who was trying to raise money to fly out to Australia to be there for his best friend's stag night.
The next day the letters page had one from someone ranting and raving about how disgusting it was that this man was going to fly to Australia just for one day, and all the damage he was causing to the environment by doing so. I think the words 'Carbon Footprint' (a term which makes me very angry whenever I hear it) were used.
The day after that, another letter was sent in, pointing out to the previous letter-writer that the planes would be flying to Australia anyway, regardless of whether that one man was on them or not.

Now, this is my main issue with the whole 'save the environment' brigade. I recycle, I switch off lights, I ride my bike around town when I can (and when I can find somewhere to put it where it won't be stolen the moment I turn my back) rather then driving. I don't do a lot, but I 'do my bit'.

Yet it seems there's always someone willing to point out how much more they do for the planet, and try and make everyone else feel guilty for not doing as much as them. Ok, so you drive a hybrid car, or have your own special bag for shopping. You could live in a cave and live off rainwater and mushrooms for all I care. Just for God's sake, stop ramming it down other people's throats, like you're Mother Nature's best friend and everyone else is worse than Hitler.
 

LilMissEvil

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Jun 25, 2008
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Yup, everyone "doing their bit" is by no means a bad thing at all.

But when some people turn it into a who is greener "pissing contest", it shows they're doing their bit to make themselves feel and look better, rather than doing it to help out.
 

zari

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Sep 19, 2007
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LilMissEvil said:
But when some people turn it into a who is greener "pissing contest", it shows they're doing their bit to make themselves feel and look better, rather than doing it to help out.
I suppose the problem is that even in the OP's biased point of view, it wasn't customers lording it over everyone else about being greener, just that it annoyed him.

Also, quite frankly who the hell cares if people did make being more environmentally friendly into a competetive thing? Who gives a shit if it annoys people? It isn't about everyone feeling warm and fuzzy, it's about making less of an impact on the environment. If people want to get their warm and fuzzies on in the meantime so much the better.

I find it interesting that a lot of people in this thread so far have homed in on global warming. We screw up our environment in so many more ways than carbon emissions.
 

Erana

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Feb 28, 2008
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If I hear, "Wow, you must be really smart!" one more time, I'm gonna pop.
 

Thais

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Jun 12, 2008
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Uncle Comrade said:
Now, this is my main issue with the whole 'save the environment' brigade. I recycle, I switch off lights, I ride my bike around town when I can (and when I can find somewhere to put it where it won't be stolen the moment I turn my back) rather then driving. I don't do a lot, but I 'do my bit'.

Yet it seems there's always someone willing to point out how much more they do for the planet, and try and make everyone else feel guilty for not doing as much as them. Ok, so you drive a hybrid car, or have your own special bag for shopping. You could live in a cave and live off rainwater and mushrooms for all I care. Just for God's sake, stop ramming it down other people's throats, like you're Mother Nature's best friend and everyone else is worse than Hitler.
Those are the people you hit. With your Prius.
 

wgreer25

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Jun 9, 2008
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I think it good for a person to make their small contributions, but there are BIG things that can be done. Noone here has posted anything about the most poluted country in the world. And every single person here has helped to fuel the polution in that country. This country's polution is so bad that is alone can effect the global climate. I would chalenge anyone not to buy products form this country. Having seen industrial manufacting in this country, I do what I can do aviod products from there. They don't care if they poison their employees and put pure toxins in the air. You all know who I am talking about.

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/6-6-10/42510.html
 

Vaudille

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Jul 2, 2008
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I'd like to see some irrefutable evidence to Global Warming. Isn't it funny how the science community is split between Global Warming and Global Climate Change? The Earth's climate fluctuates and changes- it's evident throughout the centuries- and drones mindlessly following Al Gore's slideshow without any real information are an absurd waste of humanity.

My family isn't "going green". The earth will get warmer, get cooler, and ultimately get warmer again.

I remember something about an expert environment analytical foreseeing a second Ice age less than 30 years ago- who now is spouting forth Global Warming like it was a religion.
 

werepossum

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Sep 12, 2007
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wgreer25 said:
I think it good for a person to make their small contributions, but there are BIG things that can be done. Noone here has posted anything about the most poluted country in the world. And every single person here has helped to fuel the polution in that country. This country's polution is so bad that is alone can effect the global climate. I would chalenge anyone not to buy products form this country. Having seen industrial manufacting in this country, I do what I can do aviod products from there. They don't care if they poison their employees and put pure toxins in the air. You all know who I am talking about.

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/6-6-10/42510.html
We try hard to avoid Chinese products, but unfortunately in some areas you have no choice. Many computer parts are only manufactured now in China, although sometimes I can find things made in Malaysia or Indonesia. My matrix goes USA, Canada/UK/Australia/Israel/Taiwan/South Korea/Philippines/Poland/Mexico/Brazil/Thailand, balance of Europe/Caribbean/balance of Central and South America/balance of Asia, everybody else, and China (African nations vary from month to month, but most are usually in group 2 or 3.) But as an example, who makes compact fluorescent lamps? Every once in a while I see Hungary, but 99% of the time it's three US brands all manufactured in China. Everyone wants us to transition to compact fluorescent, but the Wal-Mart Great Value incandescents are made in the USA whereas all the compact fluorescents are made in China. Frankly it leaves me conflicted.

Darth, good article. I agree with most of it, but my acquaintances' experiences with Prius (Prii? Proous? What the hell is the plural of Prius?) have been largely positive, good battery life and excellent mileage, up to 59 mpg. Plug-in hybrids make sense if your driving is almost all city driving, although I'm staying away from nickel-based batteries and waiting for lithium phosphate (preferably the ones which DON'T burst into flames), because you can charge them at home. Therefore you are somewhat insulated from fuel costs. With the Prius for example around town you can run only on the electric motor if you're careful, and braking recovers some of that energy. But hybrids won't really make sense until the combustion engine is isolated from the drive train, meaning the vehicle is driven by electric motors (preferably two or four) and the combustion engine only charges the batteries. That requires some pretty sophisticated DC/AC conversion and frequency generation, and we're not there yet, but has the advantage of removing the cost, weight, and losses of the differential and transmission.

Diesels have a difficult time in the USA because of their history, our pollution laws, and our fuel refining and distributing structure. Many older diesels gave off vibrations which made some people feel fatigued. Running at lower RPMs, diesels need more isolation from the passenger compartment than small, higher speed gasoline engines. Our pollution laws are also geared against diesels, being very strict on particulates. Thus exhaust cleaning costs more for diesels in the USA than in Europe. And our diesel is very expensive compared to gasoline. I'm not sure if that is a factor of the crude grades we import, more limited diesel refining capacity, or something else entirely, but it holds diesels back in the USA. If your fuel costs 20% more, your vehicle needs to be 20% more efficient just to break even.

I like diesels in general, but the last two factors need addressing before they'll really take off in the USA.
 

666thHeretic

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May 26, 2008
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I have no idea where this thread went, I only read the first post. Anyway.

"Just doing my part for the environment! Yeah, paying the two bucks for this fancy green bag was painful, bt it's worth it if less polar bears die or something. I also recycle whenever it's convenient and asked the car salesman how eco-friendly some cars were! I ended up buying an SUV, but, y'know, I asked. BOW TO ME< DESTROYER OF THE OZONE!"

Fucking environmentalist wannabes. GreenPeace may be full of lunatics, but at least they take their cause seriously.