If it walks like a person, talks like a person, should you rape it?

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Unesh52

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So I saw a flier for a speech that was supposedly about the problem of child sex trafficking when I was coming out of English today. It said FREE LUNCH in big, bold letters near the bottom. Apparently, not only was it being suggested that we needed to be goaded into addressing the serious issue of sex crimes with sandwiches and sugary sodas, but it was also assumed that everyone would be able to maintain their appetite while imaging sweaty businessmen deflowering various 8 year olds. Those two laughable and mildly offensive thoughts aside, I started thinking idly on the concept of pedophilia, and from there murder, rape, slavery -- really any and every personal injustice. And then...

I thought, what if it didn't hurt anyone? How could it not? What about androids? What about people... but without the physiological and neurological pieces that facilitate the concept of identity, pain, maybe even natural memory? A sort of human analogue that would never care or even know that it was being hurt.

I'd hit that.

So how do you feel about it? Would pedophilia be such a crime if the "child" the person was "abusing" was some sort of test tube baby (think the clones from Star Wars) that would never feel the pain because it's brain won't process it, would never be able to suffer mental/emotional scars because it has no capacity for complex thought, would never even remember it happened? If we could make these sorts of beings, should we have them work for us? Use them in combat training? Dangerous medical procedures? Maybe sell them commercially as "stress relievers" to what are now society's closet sadists? Aside from the problem that they might be difficult to maintain, being fragile as humans are, I don't see why not.

TLDNR
The principal question here is what defines humanity. What's the difference between a "person" and a sack of meat? Would you be alright with someone skull-fucking a baby if it didn't have a brain?

EDIT: Ok, I can see why, but I think people are focusing a little too much on the pedo thing here. What about using brain dead (er, at least altered) clones to test out dangerous new medical procedures? I thought that one was pretty interesting.

Also, blanket statement while I'm editing. I don't think having "real" sex dolls would eliminate or even necessarily help with sex crimes. I'm really questioning the morality of the analogues themselves. And how can you say a person's desire to do something is wrong if the expression of that desire doesn't hurt anyone? Think about (oh god I'm gonna get hate for this) video games; I love beating the shit out of dudes in GoW, or coming up with humiliating and brutal ways to murder soldiers in MGS games. Just because it makes a neat fantasy doesn't mean it's going to leak into reality (IMO, these analogues do not constitute "reality" in the sense I'm using it). That's Jack Thomson logic.
 

SnootyEnglishman

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May 26, 2009
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No. A child is a child and anyone who seriously thinks of committing a sexual act towards one clearly has mental problems and must be checked out.
 

HSIAMetalKing

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summerof2010 said:
So how do you feel about it? Would pedophilia be such a crime if the "child" the person was "abusing" was some sort of test tube baby (think the clones from Star Wars) that would never feel the pain because it's brain won't process it, would never be able to suffer mental/emotional scars because it has no capacity for complex thought, would never even remember it happened? If we could make these sorts of beings, should we have them work for us? Use them in combat training? Dangerous medical procedures? Maybe sell them commercially as "stress relievers" to what are now society's closet sadists? Aside from the problem that they might be difficult to maintain, being fragile as humans are, I don't see why not.
I think the main ethical concerns in this scenario are thus: even assuming the resources required for this sort of flesh-clone are reasonable, should we be designing emotionless, pain-tolerant human-analogs to satisfy violent and irresponsible sexual tenancies? Is it at all beneficial to society to equate rape and stress relief? Should we be commercially and scientifically reinforcing sadism?

I say no all across the board.
 

Duskwaith

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Sep 20, 2008
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Erm if its a baby someone had to carry it around for 9 months not to mention YOUR FUCKING A BABY

Why would you want to have sex with a clone anyway, just why?
 

Yoshemo

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How about instead of letting rapists and pedos get off, we find what causes the fetish for the and eliminate the problem?
 

Something Amyss

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I think making a baby for the purposes of "skull fucking" is monstrous to begin with, brain or no brain.
 

JaredXE

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Hmm, there was a sci-fi story that had android children being marketed to pedophiles, can't remember the name of it, but when the androids finally formed an AI, things didn't go so well. I'd say no, but then again, a sex doll built like a child COULD help stem the impulses of a pedo so they don't go after real children.

As for clones....eh. I say either grow them for organs or don't do it at all. Certainly never allow them brain functions or else they will rise up and wage war with us. That said, I would totally have sex with a female clone of myself.


Just thought I'd put it out there.
 

Unesh52

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HSIAMetalKing said:
...should we be designing emotionless, pain-tolerant human-analogs to satisfy violent and irresponsible sexual tenancies? ...Should we be commercially and scientifically reinforcing sadism?
I think it comes down to the validity of human nature. I just read in History about American soldiers during the siege of Mexico City tying up men and raping their women in front of them. And on Wikipedia (for the same class), in the article on the Massacre of Sand Creek, there were apparently reports of soldiers cutting out lady parts and wearing them like thermal hats. No joke. History corroborates the idea that violence, and not any pussyfooting kinda violence either, we're talking vagina hats and easybake jews here, is an integral part human nature. So should science and culture be working to suppress fundamental human traits, or changing the world around us so they're not harmful to express? Think Clockwork Orange. Would humanity be better off seeking to alter itself at the basest level? If we change who we are, are we still human? Or is being "human" just not all it's cracked up to be?

This is very complex -- no simple answers, and I certainly don't think you're way off base. I'm just playing the devil's advocate really :)
 

Eumersian

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Sep 3, 2009
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Very complex, but no. Rape is rape, and even if it didn't harm, physically or emotionally, my moral compass says "Stay away from that shit, bro."
 

Wadders

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Nice thread title lol...

But no, I think this is a fucked up idea.

It matters not wether it's synthetic people or real people being molested/ tourtured, it's the fact that people actually want to do that at all which is wrong.

If you want to do that sorta stuff to anything, real or not, then you need halp. Besides, surely such things would only encourage behaviour like that, and what's to say people wouldnt crave the "authentic" experiance anyways?
 
Apr 5, 2009
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Eh, since they're not actually people, and are really more just proxies to satisfy sexual urges.. Why not? Isn't that better than people going around and doing it to actual people?
 

Mintaro

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Jun 14, 2010
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If we created Creatures, or robots for the matter, with the express purpose of absorbing our violent and cruel tendencies, we would be enabling ourselves to maintain those tendencies. Which would stunt our psycological and cultural growth. In essence we would cease to evolve mentally. In fact it is more likely that we would devolve as many people who had previously been holding back those impulses (or finding safe ways to let them out), would suddenly be able to indulge them with abandon. Which would of course desensitise people to them.

To answer your question in another form; what makes us human is the ability to use our logic to better ourselves. By recognising destructive tendencies in ourselves, and making an active choice to not indulge in them, even to use our powers of self control to abolish them from our minds. Creating in their place a person better than before. The ability to control our social evoloution. It is what has made us so powerful to begin with.

If one has violent or 'Sick' impulses, one should seek help in controlling them. If one simply cannot control them then one needs to find a safe way to let them out. If one feels the need to beat ones spouse. Maybe one should take up boxing, or even just remove ones self from the destructive situation. If one is tempted to have sex with children, one should talk to a mental health professional, and keep away from situations in which there may be temptation.

If one cannot evolve as a person one really does not deserve to have been granted life in the first place.
 

Mr.Petey

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Dec 23, 2009
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Never ever should this be done, not even to satisfy ends of "reseach"
People who commit acts of sexual assault should have virtually every human right snatched from them as I find that horrible instinct on imposing self onto another human is inexcusable, without exception

Sorry but this is a subject I feel very strongly on. Nothing can be gained from treating any living thing as a sexual object regardless of artificial creation. Humanity already has the exact image of what it's like to endure that level of suffering, some moreso than others even.

To the point of someday we may be able to create an artificial person (down in front Bishop!) then we should still steer clear of any level of abuse put upon them, in terms of menial inhuman working conditions or simple depraved pleasures.
As if we were able to perfect this, what's to stop them eventually gaining enough intelligent and perception for them to demand not to be treated this way, to protest violently even as they would surely understand the core of a sentient being's rights?

I'm not talking about judgement day T2 style but more along the lines of "you've a whole new can of worms morality IF that happens"
 

ThePerfectionist

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Apr 5, 2010
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This is another one of those ideas that is good (or at least plausible) in theory, but bad in practice.

The fact is that human being have an unlimited number of wants. Give them what they want, and they will find something new to want. The cycle repeats endlessly. There is no stemming the tide. If you create an android, or any type of realistic simulation, then you're not going to be solving the problem. Here's what would happen:

Stage 1: The rape simulation device (RSD) is released
Stage 2: Convicted sex offenders buy it because they have nothing to lose, no one else does for fear of being labeled as a sex offender should anyone find out
Stage 3: Some sex offenders are sated, but for most it is probably just foreplay, and their drive for the 'real thing' just ends up making them worse than they were before

What if I'm wrong, you ask? What if Joe Everyman actually started purchasing these things for their intended use?

Curiosity killed the cat. For every person that tries it and decides they're happy with it, there will be three other people who suddenly find themselves on the verge of releasing a fantasy that they have managed to restrain thus far. Congratulations, you've just created a whole new wave of sex offenders, and these ones have practice.

The victims aren't the concern; unless you are the unluckiest bastard (or *****, considering most rape victims are female) you're probably only going to contribute to the problem once. I'm less concerned with the psychological state of a casualty and more with the state of the rapist. Human desires, ESPECIALLY deviant ones, don't get sated, they only get worse.
 

quiet_samurai

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Apr 24, 2009
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Please step up the the podium to recieve the most fucked up thread of the year award.

Seriously, fuck this thread, your notions on creating mindless zombies to use as sexual objects is the same thing Jeffrey Dahmer wanted as well. It would also be like raping a handicapped/mentally retarted person, sometimes they don't have properly functioning brains as well and can't tell what is being done to them. That still does not make it right. And you would have to be an incredibly sick individual to even consider doing somehting like that.
 

CheckD3

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Dec 9, 2009
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Rape is when something with a will doesn't consent to sexual intercourse with another but if forced to have it. A robot sex doll that has no personality could have love made to it and I personally wouldn't call it rape since the doll has no real will.

Though I think that people who rape do so out of a sexual urge that only the raping itself gives them the jolly on. Didn't BTK have a loving family and still need to occasionally tie up a girl, rape her then strangle her with his bare hands?

I guess my overtalked about point is that raping can't really happen unless you have someone who is forcing someone to have sexual intercourse (or sex in general) with someone who doesn't want to but can't stop them. Anything that couldn't resist or has the will to resist would mean it's not rape.
 

Shynobee

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Apr 16, 2009
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Well, sex topic aside, the part about using them for medical reasons would be awesome.

A major problem today is how surgeons are "rated." If one surgeon does a specific surgery really well, and fairly consistently, everyone will want to see that surgeon for that problem. What this creates is one surgeon who is being overcrowded, creating a waiting list for the surgery, and also, no other doctors are able to get good at this surgery.

But if we had living test bodies, any doctor could practice the surgery, and we could have a plethora of skilled doctors, removing the need for waiting lists, and getting rid of the pointless deaths that occur because of them.
 

Kpt._Rob

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Apr 22, 2009
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I think that'd be not just disgusting, but immoral. To understand why, I think we need to ask ourselves, "what is it that gives something enough value that we should not harm it?" A first, and most obvious answer, is that if something possesses the ability to think and feel then harm should not be brought to it without good reason. In this particular scenario, this is a moot point, as the "dolls" do not have these abilities.

So instead, we have to look deeper. Let me then, ask a question. If a mother is pregnant with a child (let's assume here that she is early enough in pregnancy that abortion would still be legal, meaning that the child itself lacks the abilities to think or feel), and someone kills that child against the mother's will, has the person who committed that murder done something immoral? Of course they have, but the crime they have committed is not agains the child (as it can not yet feel) but against the mother. That is to say that we can, by bestowing emotional value upon something, give it real value. I would argue, though admittedly there are those who would disagree with me, that the human form is something upon which we bestow enough emotional value that it has real value, regardless of whether or not it possesses a soul. This is because, in the case of most humans, the body is a physical extension of the metaphysical soul. It is a form which has been given enough emotional energy to be considered sacred, and thus, defiling it, even when it is devoid of soul, is something that I would consider immoral.

Now that's not to say that I would say that the rape of one of these "doll" bodies to be as immoral as the rape of an actual sentient being, it's not. But I would say that defiling the human form could be thought of in the same way as cutting down a grand old tree. It can be cut down if it is necessary, but if it is not necessary then it shouldn't be cut down. Likewise, if the use of the human body as a tool for medical science could save the lives of thinking feeling beings, then I might consider it justified. But to use a human body simply to fulfill sexual desires does not justify the defilement.