illegal downloads?

[LooK iTz Jinjo]

I think OP has a very closed view on file sharing, first of all you went straight off and called file sharing "Illegal Downloads." Two very different things, I use file sharing software, like uTorrent, often at TAFE, it allows everyone in the class to download and obtain quickly large files that the lecturer has brought in for us to use. That is another form of legal file sharing - get your facts right.

In terms of what you are describing, using P2P software to download movies and music etc, well last night I saw The A-Team, Grown Ups and Inception without leaving my house or paying a dollar. I really have no loyalty to any company, producer or artist when it comes to my entertainment (the exception being my consoles - I pay for that shit). I'm a student, sorry I can't afford to see all those movies every month, or buy your new CD's. You know what I can afford? My internet bill. I shall use it.

 

[Red_Serpent]

When an industry with a primary goal of generating profit is in charge of the distribution and promotion of art, films, songs, poetry, books and such it is imperative that there is a non-profit way of distribution of these things that does not look whether something is popular or not or generates enough profit.

File-sharing is not theft and is in fact a necessary element in our society to make sure that nothing is lost or ever unobtainable.

 

[Shycte]

It doesn't matter if it's theft or not. You are still a parasite.

 

[godofallu]

Is it theft? Yes.

Do I do it often? Yes.

Do I lose sleep? No.

 

[spartan231490]

It's theft, and copywrite infringement. It's damaging to the industry, although certainly not crippling. I've heard so many justifications, but in the end of the day, you are gaining value without giving any in return, that is theft.

Edit, I know you're going to ask, so I will tell you now. I have never pirated a single song, game, movie, or anything else. Honestly, it's not because i think piraters will go to hell, It's just that to me, it makes more sense to buy my shit, than risk huge fines, no matter how minimal the risk is.

 

[Saxm13]

This is getting out of hand I think.....

 

[Lulzovich]

Well, I think it's theft, but I don't really care, I just keep on stealin'... Shit, I don't remember when was the last time I actually BOUGHT a game or a music cd... But, considering where I live only 1 shop actually sells original games and music... and they still have more of "pirated" stuff than originals... And, honestly, all original games that come out here are either some shitty casual or traditional games, or they're really old... And shitty. (Pro Chess Over 9000, Ultimate Ice-skating Tournament '98 or some crazy shit like that).

In short, this:

Is it theft? Yes.

Do I do it often? Yes.

Do I lose sleep? No.

 

[Archindar]

I come from Sweden, the country that brought you the Pirate Bay, so you go ahead and guess were i stand.

 

[II2]

That picture on page one saves a lot of words.

 

[rees263]

At school and university I never thought twice about piracy - it's just something everyone did. Now that I've left I definitely take it more seriously. I haven't pirated a game or movie since and I don't *think* I've downloaded any music I shouldn't. Hell, my PC can't run any new games any way so I have to buy them on PS3. I've even retro-bought games I've previously downloaded. I have 3 games in my steam library that I had previously obtained otherwise.

I do however have one glaring weakness - TV shows. Specifically American TV shows that we won't get here to ol' Blighty for god knows how long. They will be played on a free tv channel here eventually, but what can you do. Everyone has their vice.

 

[captainwolfos]

Eh, it's a grey area. It's not technically illegal if reading a lot of small print in the case of ROMs and whatnot (emulation, ftw; assuming it works).
Music - yeah, I download it, but if it weren't for randomly downloading tracks, I probably wouldn't have even heard of any decent music. Well, aside from classic 80s stuff that my mother had on a RECORDED CASSETTE TAPE. So that was pirated in itself. And there's another grey area on Windows Live - there's the option to send a file/folder, where music can be sent, which if you want to be technical is a form of file sharing. And I'm pretty sure Windows Live monitor these things.
Games - I've tried to pirate them. Most pirated games refuse to work on my computer, so I don't tend to bother trying these days. Only games from things like the now defunct Reflexive Arcade were ever downloaded, because paying $20 (what's that, £15? Something like that) for a game which will take half an hour at most to complete is utterly ludicrous.
I do proudly admit to buying pre-owned games. And as the gaming industry has claimed that buying used is destroying the industry more than pirating, that just gave me more incentive to pirate before I realised yet again it doesn't work on my god forsaken machine.
Movies - I don't tend to pirate because they're massive files, but I watch things on surfthechannel. No money leaves my hands aside from the web charge, but again, that's not technically pirating.
There are loopholes for everything, and they will always be exploited. Whether or not it's right is irrelevant.

 

[Adecristo]

It's not Cut -> Paste, it's Copy -> Paste. Thus I don't consider it theft. The company doesn't lose anything, because if I couldn't get it free, I wouldn't buy it anyway. I just don't have money for that, as I live in Poland, a country where games cost as much, as you can get for 18 hours of work. Don't get me wrong, I love my country. But the prices for games are bit overweight.
And no, I don't want to work 18 hours for a game, that would take less to finish. I don't mind buying some multiplayer games like Team Fortress 2, though. But these are rares, as I mostly play over LAN with my friends, which usually works on pirate versions of games.

 

[ImpostorZim]

Well, downloading makes some indie bands and so on more popular because they're free to download and therefore they can be known by alot more people, if piracy didn't exist we would probably just have artists like Lady Gaga and other MTV trash.

Though it's still theft...

I seriously agree with you. If it weren't for file sharing, we'd be limited to the music the mainstream industry wants us to listen to. Also, people like me for example who live in the 3rd world, would never have the chance to listen to ridiculously unknown bands like Retard-o-Bot or Rah Bras.

 

[Sikachu]

It's technically theft by law. Doesn't mean I morally object to it. It has far less effect on the music and film industry than they'd have you think. They still make enough to line their pockets with baby seal fur if they fancied it. What is killing the music and film industry is greedy proucers taking a much larger cut than they deserve.

It does however have a big affect on pc gaming. Devs are now either refusing to release for it (gears 2) or has RETARDED drm (asscreed 2)
It is theft. I morally object to theft as my father owns a business based on software.

It isn't theft. You're wrong. Do the legal research.

 

[chris89300]

*Yawn* "Illegally" downloading stuff is not hurting anyone, it's all propaganda, sheesh. How many people here really think that we'd go and BUY stuff instead? Anyways, 99% of everything I have is not payed for, BUT, when something is so awesome that it manages to impress me, I buy it (WC3, SC, Diablo (even tho they RUINED it), etc).

Besides, music industry? Ha, more like noise industry, 99.9999% music nowadays is shit, it all sounds the same, I stopped listening to new music a long while back.

But to stay on topic, can you remember how it was before everyone had high speed internet? "Pirated" CDs, casettes, DVDs, even HDD swapping.

Laws are epic fails and in 50 years, we won't even need the internet to get our hands on music, we'll all be telepathically linked or whatever and it'll be the same shit all over again.

TV, radio, the DVR, the floppy, the CD/DVD writer, HDDs, external HDDs, USB dongles, the entertainment industry whined about them like the insecure cash-hungry whores that they are but they didn't kill the industry, so what makes anyone think downloads will? The only difference is that the internet is more efficient, since you don't even have to go out and get the "pirated" material.

And BTW, theft means you take something away from someone, as in "I stole his phone, so now he doesn't have one anymore", it's not the same thing, a song is abstract, you can't take it away, since it is not tangible... you can copy it tho, but you don't appropriate it, it's not like you tell everyone it's YOUR song.

Edit: added the FDD

 

[Kagim]

No, it doesn't hurt anyone.
Yes, I don't like it.

I think its disrespectful to the property owners. You might not be trashing there empire but your taking and getting enjoyment out of there product without paying for it.

The difference between file sharing and buying used is that copy has been paid for. Money has changed hands to the developer. Now, the owner of the game has given up all rights to the game and handed it over losing all rights to that copy. Buying used gives you rights to that game.

One copy, one owner, one user. As much as game companies might hate it that's perfectly fine.

Borrowing and lending games operates the same way. Only one person or unified group of persons can enjoy said game. Lending bobby Infamous doesn't allow both Jimmy and Bobby to play it at home. Jimmy is giving up his ability to play the game to let Bobby play it. That's his right to do so. One copy, one owner, one user.

As for renting most places have to pay a monthly or yearly fee in royalties. Same goes for most libraries, only libraries are paid through taxes.

File sharing on the other hand operates in One copy, one owner, Sixty thousand users. That's NOT fine. That's not your right to do so.

Still, in the end its not the act that bothers me, but the sheer sickening sense of entitlement and other bullshit.

The fact that so many people refuse to admit they do this for no other reason then "I'm Cheap and/or lazy and don't deserve what I am taking". If people could admit that I wouldn't care, so would many other people I know.

It's the "I deserve it!" attitude.
It's the "I have no other choice!" attitude.
It's the "I'm saving the game industry!" attitude.
It's the "I can't afford it so I deserve it" attitude.
It's the "I'm doing it because game developers are evil!" attitude.
It's the comparison to Black Rights protests. Yes, that has happened on these forums. Twice. People honestly compared ripping the complete Golden Girls series to Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks and the black Panthers. I am not kidding.

It's the gimme gimme i deserve it because I'm the Batman AND the victim attitudes that piss so many people off. Not the fact people actually do it.

It's the stupid "DRM IS MADE OUT OF PEOPLE!!" crap i have heard. "Like, omg! Its just here to control us!" why isn't it on console games then? "Fuck you you fagot!" baw...?

Seriously, if you want to rip shit instead of pay a dime that's your choice. Like i said, i find it to personally be a god damn slap in the face of property holders.

However please do so without your self entitled I deserve to have everything I want because I am batman saving the day while also being this horrible victims at the hands of the evil corporations. Then go on to describe yourself as the next Martin Luther King.

From my time here no one seems to care you do it. We're just irritated by the fact some of you seem to think that you have the right to take any game you want for free out of some absurd entitlement.

Please also knock off the "Your only taking away 'potential' customers" crap. EVERYONE is a potential customer. That sentence means NOTHING.

 

[chris89300]

No, it doesn't hurt anyone.
Yes, I don't like it.

I think its disrespectful to the property owners. You might not be trashing there empire but your taking and getting enjoyment out of there product without paying for it.

The difference between file sharing and buying used is that copy has been paid for. Money has changed hands to the developer. Now, the owner of the game has given up all rights to the game and handed it over losing all rights to that copy. Buying used gives you rights to that game.

One copy, one owner, one user. As much as game companies might hate it that's perfectly fine.

Borrowing and lending games operates the same way. Only one person or unified group of persons can enjoy said game. Lending bobby Infamous doesn't allow both Jimmy and Bobby to play it at home. Jimmy is giving up his ability to play the game to let Bobby play it. That's his right to do so. One copy, one owner, one user.

As for renting most places have to pay a monthly or yearly fee in royalties. Same goes for most libraries, only libraries are paid through taxes.

File sharing on the other hand operates in One copy, one owner, Sixty thousand users. That's NOT fine. That's not your right to do so.

Still, in the end its not the act that bothers me, but the sheer sickening sense of entitlement and other bullshit.

The fact that so many people refuse to admit they do this for no other reason then "I'm Cheap and/or lazy and don't deserve what I am taking". If people could admit that I wouldn't care, so would many other people I know.

It's the "I deserve it!" attitude.
It's the "I have no other choice!" attitude.
It's the "I'm saving the game industry!" attitude.
It's the "I can't afford it so I deserve it" attitude.
It's the "I'm doing it because game developers are evil!" attitude.
It's the comparison to Black Rights protests. Yes, that has happened on these forums. Twice. People honestly compared ripping the complete Golden Girls series to Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks and the black Panthers. I am not kidding.

It's the gimme gimme i deserve it because I'm the Batman AND the victim attitudes that piss so many people off. Not the fact people actually do it.

It's the stupid "DRM IS MADE OUT OF PEOPLE!!" crap i have heard. "Like, omg! Its just here to control us!" why isn't it on console games then? "Fuck you you fagot!" baw...?

Seriously, if you want to rip shit instead of pay a dime that's your choice. Like i said, i find it to personally be a god damn slap in the face of property holders.

However please do so without your self entitled I deserve to have everything I want because I am batman saving the day while also being this horrible victims at the hands of the evil corporations. Then go on to describe yourself as the next Martin Luther King.

From my time here no one seems to care you do it. We're just irritated by the fact some of you seem to think that you have the right to take any game you want for free out of some absurd entitlement.

Please also knock off the "Your only taking away 'potential' customers" crap. EVERYONE is a potential customer. That sentence means NOTHING.

Good one, Kagim.

Hell, I know I rarely pay for something I can have for free without hurting anyone, yeah I'm cheap, but even if I weren't, shit is priced too high nowadays, I mean, 60-80e for an average game I'll finish in a few hours? Screw that. Some games are worth the price, but they're rare nowadays. So basically, if I couldn't get my stuff for free, I'd just stick with the games I know are great and I wouldn't buy anything else... at all. Besides, I bought Silent Hill Shattered Memories and Assassin's Creed 2 yesterday for console, I dunno about Silent Hill but I do know I could have gotten Assassin's Creed for free on PC (plus, I have a 360 controller on it, so it would have pretty much been the same).

So even if I'm cheap, which I totally am, it's industry's fault that I rarely pay for something. If they invested a little less in fancy graphics and "anti-piracy" shit and more in the actual game, I would buy more games, since as I said in my previous post, I buy games that impress me, otherwise I just download them, play them (I don't even finish all of them) and then forget about them.

As long as the industry doesn't drop its safety net and stop making the same mediocre shit over and over again but with different titles and with higher price tags (that applies to the entire entertainment industry, not only gaming, but games are the most expensive, so I focus more on them), I won't buy more games than I usually buy.

Take my PSP for example. Last time I bought something for it was when I got it, got me God of War.

I know I'm not the only one thinking of it this way.

Oh, and to anyone who'd like to see things change, start boycotting the entertainment industry people, stop buying their overexploited garbage, that way, they'll have to do some brainstorming and get some original ideas out, not the same things over and over and over again.


Edit: skipped a word :$

 

[MiserableOldGit]

This is one of those issues where people on all sides ignore the elephant in the room, because when you look at it honestly there is no clear target to lay the blame on, and the solution to the problem involves change for all concerned-and people don't like change.
It's easy to label piracy as theft, and those that engage in it as thievin reprobates, but this conclusion doesnt adequatly account for all the facts.
An American politician looking to appear like there was a point to his existence was recently quoted as saying piracy was akin to smashing the plate glass window at Tiffany's and making off with a bunch of diamonds. That's fine for scaring crap out of thick people, but the rest of us will notice a few areas where the analogy breaks down-for one, when you pirate something, you take a copy rather than depriving the owner of a product they could potentialy trade to a paying customer, and you don't have a knock on effect to the prices due to insurance claims and premiums going up (there's also a lot less broken glass to sweep up).
There is, of course, the issue of sales lost due to people pirating rather than paying, but as we have no means of judging how many of these individuals would never have paid for the product as they couldnt afford it, it is an unqualified statement to suggest this is destroying sales.
The notion that people will knick anything if they can get away with it doesnt sit right with me, especialy when we consider free to play and micro-transaction gaming (gaming being another area where piracy is rife). Rather than screaming 'thief!' or punishing paying customers with verification and security measures, these companies have basically opened the doors and said "Take it, its free", with things you pay for being the juicy extras kept out back. Turns out the thieving masses are quite happy to support the companies that provide them with the products they love - Turbine, for example, enjoyed a 500% increase in profit after going free to play with Dungeons and Dragons Online, and are going to implement the same business model with Lord Of The Rings.
The micro transaction model may not work for all media, or even all games, but it does highlight some inconstencies in the wailing and gnashing we periodically here from companies regarding piracy. The internet, and IT technology in general has changed the way we do things on a fundamental level, and that has changed peoples attitudes accordingly. People are deluged with different artforms and information, more than they can possibly budget for if they were to legitimatly pay for it. Industries such as Music need to find ways to accomodate their customers and meet their needs-if they can't they will become a thing of the past. Art did just fine before the existence of big industry, and it will do just fine without it again. A few investors might be short a holiday or a new Beemer as result, personally I cant say I'll lose too much sleep over it.