illegal downloads?

[razer17]

Hello fellow Escapists. My friends and I have this conversation often. What are your views on file-sharing software? Do you class it as theft?

Personally, I think it is theft and it is slowly destroying the music industry. So, what do you think?

A: Studies show that pirates on average buy more music. Just sayin.

B: File Sharing software IS NOT ILLEGAL! Torrent technology isn't illegal, Usenet isn't illegal, even Limewire isn't illegal. Hell, the WoW updater uses file sharing technology to make downloading updates quicker.

Just to prove my point:

http://www.legittorrents.info/index.php
http://www.clearbits.net/

I never said it was illegal, it was just my opinion which I still stand by. Although, you have given a very valid point which I never knew before.

Yes you did. Let me quote you "What are your views on file-sharing software? Do you class it as theft?". File sharing software isn't theft.

 

[dragonslayer32]

Hello fellow Escapists. My friends and I have this conversation often. What are your views on file-sharing software? Do you class it as theft?

Personally, I think it is theft and it is slowly destroying the music industry. So, what do you think?

A: Studies show that pirates on average buy more music. Just sayin.

B: File Sharing software IS NOT ILLEGAL! Torrent technology isn't illegal, Usenet isn't illegal, even Limewire isn't illegal. Hell, the WoW updater uses file sharing technology to make downloading updates quicker.

Just to prove my point:

http://www.legittorrents.info/index.php
http://www.clearbits.net/

I never said it was illegal, it was just my opinion which I still stand by. Although, you have given a very valid point which I never knew before.

Yes you did. Let me quote you "What are your views on file-sharing software? Do you class it as theft?". File sharing software isn't theft.

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

 

[Kurokami]

Well, downloading makes some indie bands and so on more popular because they're free to download and therefore they can be known by alot more people, if piracy didn't exist we would probably just have artists like Lady Gaga and other MTV trash.

Though it's still theft...

Actually since most the indie bands put their music up in the first place, if no one pirated and instead downloaded those there would probably be more people listening to the indie bands, which will make them famous... which will mean their songs were downloaded legally for free and are now mainstream and uninteresting, let the cycle begin again!

(Course I'm wrong, but that's how I'd like to see it happen)

 

[razer17]

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!

You can't just say: Oh that's illegal, when IT ISN'T.

Saying file sharing software is illegal is like saying knives are illegal. It's a naive and stupid notion. Saying, that using the filesharing software to download copyrighted files, on the other hand. isn't.

 

[Kapol]

First off, out of those 1000$, the artist would have only got 100~400$. Second, 10$ saved by a costumer from buying A, will often be used to buy B, specially when B is better than A, making the artist who made B gain from piracy on A.

Going back to gaming, fact is, good products get sold. You might look at a 200k Half Life 2 piracy number, but when you divide the number of copies sold by that, you get a lower factor than say, Spore, a much crappier game. Developer's should stop worrying about piracy and DRM, and start worrying about delivering the best gaming experience possible, and they WON'T lose money.

Do you think Blizzard employee's worry about piracy in Starcraft 2, or Valve employee's about piracy in Portal 2?
No, they just swim in their pile of money on the morning, and go on making excellent masterpieces of gaming in the afternoon.

The same thing applies to artists and movie studios.

Here's an idea, if the games/movies/songs you're pirating are such crap, then how about you just don't worry about playing/seeing/listening to them? Just because something is bad doesn't mean that people have a right to get it for free.

Also, the artist would have only gotten $100-400, but what about the jobs of the people working in all of the places that sell them? I've had a good amount of stores going out of business that focus on selling music and movies. I'm not saying pirating was the main reason for it, but it sure as hell didn't help. Even if the store would only make $200 per CD, if they're selling 100 different CDs at a time, that's $20,000 they've lost as a company. While that isn't a huge impact on them, that's likely worth letting off a few people, who now are unemployed.

You're point that the person would buy B instead of A is flawed as well, because who said they'll use it for the same kind of thing? What's to stop them from downloading more and just spending their money on other things entirely? Just because you're taking away from one does not mean you're giving to the other.

And that 'pile of money' that the companies are swimming on? Most games have around 2-4 year development time, with a decent number of people working on that game at the time. They have to pay all of their employees over the development of the game, as well as upkeep and other things to do with the company. Even when they sell the game, most companies have to share a lot of the money with the distributes, which lowers their profits even more. I doubt any of those companies are really swimming in money, or at least the ones purely focused on game development.

My point is, making these things normally isn't cheap. I've seen points in the CD argument that the record companies are the ones losing the profits, but they normally pay the artist when they record as well as a cut of the gross profit. All companies face a huge cost when producing things like movies and games, and those keep a lot of people employed. While a few people pirating wouldn't hurt the industry, it's becoming so easy that it really is cause a dent.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Ironically, I don't pirate things.

As long as you aren't making money off it I don't care. Well, the Pirate Bay makes ad money, I don't care about that.

 

[dragonslayer32]

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!

You can't just say: Oh that's illegal, when IT ISN'T.

Saying file sharing software is illegal is like saying knives are illegal. It's a naive and stupid notion. Saying, that using the filesharing software to download copyrighted files, on the other hand. isn't.

I NEVER SAID IT IS ILLEGAL. What I said, is that I, NOT THE LAW, CLASS it as theft. That doesn't mean that it IS theft, it's just that I BELIEVE it to be. It is exactly the same as you saying that you think it is not illegal. You don't think it is classed as theft, I think it is.

 

[Rayansaki]

Here's an idea, if the games/movies/songs you're pirating are such crap, then how about you just don't worry about playing/seeing/listening to them? Just because something is bad doesn't mean that people have a right to get it for free.

I'm not saying I have the right to get it for free, just that if I want to get 2 things and only have money for one, I'm using it on the better one, and still getting the crappier one because I don't care. If it had been better, I would have spent the money on it instead. Good stuff always gets sold.

 

[Kapol]

Here's an idea, if the games/movies/songs you're pirating are such crap, then how about you just don't worry about playing/seeing/listening to them? Just because something is bad doesn't mean that people have a right to get it for free.

I'm not saying I have the right to get it for free, just that if I want to get 2 things and only have money for one, I'm using it on the better one, and still getting the crappier one because I don't care. If it had been better, I would have spent the money on it instead. Good stuff always gets sold.

Yea, good things always earn money, but they don't earn as much as they should normally. And just because something isn't as good as, say, Half Like 2 or any other huge game that has a ton of popularity doesn't mean that the 'crappier' one is a bad game, so that company might have made a really good game that they aren't earning money for because it's not as good as some bigger name/higher budget game.

But arguing is fairly pointless, as both of us know that the other won't change their mind. I won't be able to convince you not to download things just because you can, and you won't convince me that I should start. So why don't we just leave it at that?

 

[dragonslayer32]

Ironically, I don't pirate things.

Ha, I LOLd.

 

[Dana22]

Im against pirating the games and software.

Movies and music are art and thus downloading it is allowed under fair use.

 

[Arachon]

As others have pointed out, it's not theft, it's copyright infringement, certain differences.

And anyhow, the entire "piracy"-discussion is somewhat of a moot point, the industry doesn't give a rats ass about piracy, it's just a convenient excuse for them to get at their "real" target, the used games market.

 

[thahat]

It's technically theft by law. Doesn't mean I morally object to it. It has far less effect on the music and film industry than they'd have you think. They still make enough to line their pockets with baby seal fur if they fancied it. What is killing the music and film industry is greedy proucers taking a much larger cut than they deserve.

nope it aint, its legal here in the netherlands. its just the uploading part thats illigal.
the fact that its one of those 'we cant actualy enforce it cause 80 or more % or the populace does it, and wants to keep doing it' things is making it rather hard for the goverment to do anything though. its like trying to tell your people that oxygen is banned. XD

 

[The Procrastinated End]

Sure it's theft by definition but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

[razer17]

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!

You can't just say: Oh that's illegal, when IT ISN'T.

Saying file sharing software is illegal is like saying knives are illegal. It's a naive and stupid notion. Saying, that using the filesharing software to download copyrighted files, on the other hand. isn't.

I NEVER SAID IT IS ILLEGAL. What I said, is that I, NOT THE LAW, CLASS it as theft. That doesn't mean that it IS theft, it's just that I BELIEVE it to be. It is exactly the same as you saying that you think it is not illegal. You don't think it is classed as theft, I think it is.

File sharing is just technology. Where does the chain stop? Do you classify computers as illegal, because they run filesharing software? Do you consider MP3 players illegal because they could play illegally obtained music?

Do you think Blizzard is committing theft because it uses filesharing software in it's updater? Because by your definition, you clearly do. Do you think it's theft if I download open source programs through torrents? Or if I download CC music from torrents?

 

[thahat]

Sure it's theft by definition but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

not theft. theft is stealing the cow.
downloading is illigally cloning it in the night. you both have to cow. the first guy with the cow is just pissed that you did not pay him for the idea of his cow XD

 

[AMMO Kid]

It's against the law, therefore I object to it.

 

[thahat]

nope, it is NOT theft. it was ruled on by the sepreme court. they say theft is when you TAKE the original, but piracy is COPYING the original.

I'd like to see how that holds up in court. Call it whatever you like it's still technically illegal. But as I said. Doesn't mean I agree with that.

Heh, which part of "Ruled by Supreme Court" did you miss there? Lol...

That doesn't make it legal, but it does stop it from being theft. Copyright infringement is, I think, what you would be charged with.

What I meant is that I'd like to see that excuse hold up in court.

It might not be theft but it's still not legal so it's a moot point really. You're just calling it by a different name.

guv, are you just that silly? supreme court IS A COURT, SO THE EXCUSE ALREADY DID HOLD UP XD
sorry for calling you silly but serieusly, you comment was slightly dim-whitted, maybe you should have some sleep? im sure you'l be right sharp again in the morning