illegal downloads?

[4484448444844484]

The problem with saying that if a person pirates something they wouldn't have bought it anyway is that the way the world works is if you don't buy something or have it given to you, then you shouldn't have it.

It may not be theft but it still isn't morally justifiable.

 

[dragonslayer32]

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!

You can't just say: Oh that's illegal, when IT ISN'T.

Saying file sharing software is illegal is like saying knives are illegal. It's a naive and stupid notion. Saying, that using the filesharing software to download copyrighted files, on the other hand. isn't.

I NEVER SAID IT IS ILLEGAL. What I said, is that I, NOT THE LAW, CLASS it as theft. That doesn't mean that it IS theft, it's just that I BELIEVE it to be. It is exactly the same as you saying that you think it is not illegal. You don't think it is classed as theft, I think it is.

You, sir, are an idiot. File sharing is just technology. Where does the chain stop? Do you classify computers as illegal, because they run filesharing software? Do you consider MP3 players illegal because they could play illegally obtained music?

Do you think Blizzard is committing theft because it uses filesharing software in it's updater? Because by your definition, you clearly do. Do you think it's theft if I download open source programs through torrents? Or if I download CC music from torrents?

You are really starting to piss me off now. First off, calling me an idiot? seriously? How old are you? It is pretty obvious that when you resort to calling someone names, you are losing the argument. You are really not getting the idea are you? I said that I think file sharing is theft - apropriating property belonging to another with the intention to perminently deprive. File sharing is depriving the rightful owner of any money they are due to intentionally, which suffices as the Actus Reus and Mens Rea of theft, therefore a theft has been committed. It is obvious I dont think computers and MP3 players are illegal, you are blowing things out of proportion. I suggest you get a grip and admit defeat.

 

[Dys]

It's outright theft and copyright infringement. Give anyone violating those laws the punish the law seems fit.

It's outright theft in the same was that stitching a brandname into your generic clothing is. It's intellectual theft, there's a pretty significant difference.....I can see it's been said a whole lot already in this thread, but really, saying it's "outright theft" makes you look like a dumbass.

It is morally wrong, though it isn't always a bad thing for the musicians involved.

 

[razer17]

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!

You can't just say: Oh that's illegal, when IT ISN'T.

Saying file sharing software is illegal is like saying knives are illegal. It's a naive and stupid notion. Saying, that using the filesharing software to download copyrighted files, on the other hand. isn't.

I NEVER SAID IT IS ILLEGAL. What I said, is that I, NOT THE LAW, CLASS it as theft. That doesn't mean that it IS theft, it's just that I BELIEVE it to be. It is exactly the same as you saying that you think it is not illegal. You don't think it is classed as theft, I think it is.

You, sir, are an idiot. File sharing is just technology. Where does the chain stop? Do you classify computers as illegal, because they run filesharing software? Do you consider MP3 players illegal because they could play illegally obtained music?

Do you think Blizzard is committing theft because it uses filesharing software in it's updater? Because by your definition, you clearly do. Do you think it's theft if I download open source programs through torrents? Or if I download CC music from torrents?

You are really starting to piss me off now. First off, calling me an idiot? seriously? How old are you? It is pretty obvious that when you resort to calling someone names, you are losing the argument. You are really not getting the idea are you? I said that I think file sharing is theft - apropriating property belonging to another with the intention to perminently deprive. File sharing is depriving the rightful owner of any money they are due to intentionally, which suffices as the Actus Reus and Mens Rea of theft, therefore a theft has been committed. It is obvious I dont think computers and MP3 players are illegal, you are blowing things out of proportion. I suggest you get a grip and admit defeat.

It is NOT stealing, if the OWNER gives it away. The technology isn't illegal, some files shared with it are. It's like if a friend gives you his CD, yes, you're permanently depriving him of it, but WITH HIS PERMISSION. That, is NOT illegal. You are losing this argument. Their have been several court rulings world wide claiming torrents ETC. aren't illegal. Throwing in law related latin like Mens Rea doesn't change that.

 

[BlueberryMUNCH]

No objection to music and films because i really dont think its theft- especially since most songs are on youtube to listen to whenever we want and most movies will be shown on telly soon enough...

Downloading games is something i DO object to, though.

 

[Arehexes]

Clearly not theft nor copyright infringement. Nor is it destroying the music industry since the artists don't make jack off the actual CD sales anyway.
Plus if you actally think that it is that bad then you should not buy used games/cds nor borrow shit from a friend since borrowing is basically the same and the used market does more damage to the industry.

I don't borrow games/cds/dvd from friends nor do I buy them used. Personally I am against used sales and I never bother borrowing things, I just buy them. Also, I'm pretty sure that artists do get something from CD sales as this is how they make most of their money. It is gigs they get next to nothing for; sure, they get paid but they pay for their own set so if it is an expensive set, they are actually losing money.

Some artists report getting like a dime per song sold, so a 20 track album is 2 bucks. Well the producer gets a larger cut of the profit gain.

 

[Arehexes]

Hello fellow Escapists. My friends and I have this conversation often. What are your views on file-sharing software? Do you class it as theft?

Personally, I think it is theft and it is slowly destroying the music industry. So, what do you think?

A: Studies show that pirates on average buy more music. Just sayin.

B: File Sharing software IS NOT ILLEGAL! Torrent technology isn't illegal, Usenet isn't illegal, even Limewire isn't illegal. Hell, the WoW updater uses file sharing technology to make downloading updates quicker.

Just to prove my point:

http://www.legittorrents.info/index.php
http://www.clearbits.net/

I never said it was illegal, it was just my opinion which I still stand by. Although, you have given a very valid point which I never knew before.

Yes you did. Let me quote you "What are your views on file-sharing software? Do you class it as theft?". File sharing software isn't theft.

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

Not going to lie that's the same thing. Classing it something is calling it something, that's like saying I classify this pudding to be good (your calling it good).

 

[Epailes]

Personally I may or may not pirate them (says with eyes darting left and right), but if the music that I DEFINITELY did not pirate was any good after listening to it, I buy it.
Although wether that will hold up in court is another matter...

Anyway I think if you download something illegally and keep it, that's wrong

 

[Lenny Magic]

My views on file-sharing software is that it is a great tool and amazing useful for large file transfers. However it is most cases used in an illegal way.

You could pretty much say the same about a cordless drill useful, but if it were used in a robbery it would still be stealing by way of cordless drill...

 

[Kapol]

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!

You can't just say: Oh that's illegal, when IT ISN'T.

Saying file sharing software is illegal is like saying knives are illegal. It's a naive and stupid notion. Saying, that using the filesharing software to download copyrighted files, on the other hand. isn't.

I NEVER SAID IT IS ILLEGAL. What I said, is that I, NOT THE LAW, CLASS it as theft. That doesn't mean that it IS theft, it's just that I BELIEVE it to be. It is exactly the same as you saying that you think it is not illegal. You don't think it is classed as theft, I think it is.

You, sir, are an idiot. File sharing is just technology. Where does the chain stop? Do you classify computers as illegal, because they run filesharing software? Do you consider MP3 players illegal because they could play illegally obtained music?

Do you think Blizzard is committing theft because it uses filesharing software in it's updater? Because by your definition, you clearly do. Do you think it's theft if I download open source programs through torrents? Or if I download CC music from torrents?

You are really starting to piss me off now. First off, calling me an idiot? seriously? How old are you? It is pretty obvious that when you resort to calling someone names, you are losing the argument. You are really not getting the idea are you? I said that I think file sharing is theft - apropriating property belonging to another with the intention to perminently deprive. File sharing is depriving the rightful owner of any money they are due to intentionally, which suffices as the Actus Reus and Mens Rea of theft, therefore a theft has been committed. It is obvious I dont think computers and MP3 players are illegal, you are blowing things out of proportion. I suggest you get a grip and admit defeat.

It is NOT stealing, if the OWNER gives it away. The technology isn't illegal, some files shared with it are. It's like if a friend gives you his CD, yes, you're permanently depriving him of it, but WITH HIS PERMISSION. That, is NOT illegal. You are losing this argument. Their have been several court rulings world wide claiming torrents ETC. aren't illegal. Throwing in law related latin like Mens Rea doesn't change that.

But the problem with that argument is that the friend doesn't own the rights to the songs, and therefore they aren't his to give away. You may own the physical disk, but you don't actually OWN the songs on the disk. I understand where you're coming from in terms of the torrents themselves not being illegal, but giving away something you don't actually own is. That's like if you lent a TV to a friend and they gave it away. Even if they had paid you to borrow it, it still wasn't theirs to give away.

 

[MrNickster]

A new band records an album. They spend a lot of time mixing the sounds and writing the music, think hard about their lyrics and make some great music. One person buys the CD and puts it online. Everyone else downloads it. They may like the music, but the band doesn't get a cent for all their hard work. The only way they can make money to keep their heads above water now is to go on tour, but they need the money from CD sales to do that. Band grinds to a hault, never to move again.

Simple version of my opinion-Pay for your music. Buy a CD, use iTunes-New bands need money to get moving.

 

[Danpascooch]

Clearly not theft nor copyright infringement. Nor is it destroying the music industry since the artists don't make jack off the actual CD sales anyway.
Plus if you actally think that it is that bad then you should not buy used games/cds nor borrow shit from a friend since borrowing is basically the same and the used market does more damage to the industry.

What if I steal laptops running bittorrent from cruise ships?

What is that? (fucking brilliant is the correct answer)

Hello fellow Escapists. My friends and I have this conversation often. What are your views on file-sharing software? Do you class it as theft?

Personally, I think it is theft and it is slowly destroying the music industry. So, what do you think?

Hate to nitpick (kind of), but the file-sharing SOFTWARE itself is not illegal, and has perfectly legal and ethical uses.

I don't think file sharing is theft, and "piracy" is just about the most ridiculous word that could be assigned to it.

 

[jaeger138]

It's well known by any musician worth their salt that the sales of their music don't make them a thing. The record company gets most of that cut with a meager amount going to the artists (meager in comparison at least). Most record contracts require that artists give up their intellectual property to hand the rights over to the record company. If you ask me, THAT's theft. That is what's killing the industry as artists don't even own their songs. This is the reason that the price of ticket's for live shows has gone up a heck of a lot in the last 20 years. You can end up paying over £100 for some of the more famous bands and artists to sit at the back of the O2 arena and see what look like stick men prancing around a distant stage. And even smaller venues are charging much more than they used to.

Quite simply, music WILL end up being free in the future, the cash will come from advertising and live shows and the industry won't have been damaged for it at all, possibly improved.

The other factor is the market flood, things become less valuable when there is more of it around, basic economic rule. The big companies are manufacturing bands left, right and centre and signing artists that can only sell one successful album as most artists that do get contracts never reach that high level of fame. They increase their odds of making money by introducing a one-hit wonder to the scene and then pulling all their support of them after the initial fanfare has died down to pump it all into the next one-hit wonder. That means every song has become essentially value-less because there's so much mediocre, cookie cutter crap coming out all the time.

It is definitely illegal to download music in the eyes of statute law but morally and ethically I'd say it isn't. The companies aren't losing money because of it, at least no directly, the artists are being screwed by the record companies and then buying the bullshit they're fed about it being the fault of men with parrots, eye patches and computers and the consumer is getting a raw deal because the companies aren't pushing the music they like but instead taking away support to fund the next album of Lady Gaga and whatever new pop sensation that won't last a year. This is the industry that made the term indie a genre rather than a way of creating content!

 

[dragonslayer32]

Yes, I asked the question, which you answered. However, I never once said that it was illegal, I said I class it as illegal.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!

You can't just say: Oh that's illegal, when IT ISN'T.

Saying file sharing software is illegal is like saying knives are illegal. It's a naive and stupid notion. Saying, that using the filesharing software to download copyrighted files, on the other hand. isn't.

I NEVER SAID IT IS ILLEGAL. What I said, is that I, NOT THE LAW, CLASS it as theft. That doesn't mean that it IS theft, it's just that I BELIEVE it to be. It is exactly the same as you saying that you think it is not illegal. You don't think it is classed as theft, I think it is.

You, sir, are an idiot. File sharing is just technology. Where does the chain stop? Do you classify computers as illegal, because they run filesharing software? Do you consider MP3 players illegal because they could play illegally obtained music?

Do you think Blizzard is committing theft because it uses filesharing software in it's updater? Because by your definition, you clearly do. Do you think it's theft if I download open source programs through torrents? Or if I download CC music from torrents?

You are really starting to piss me off now. First off, calling me an idiot? seriously? How old are you? It is pretty obvious that when you resort to calling someone names, you are losing the argument. You are really not getting the idea are you? I said that I think file sharing is theft - apropriating property belonging to another with the intention to perminently deprive. File sharing is depriving the rightful owner of any money they are due to intentionally, which suffices as the Actus Reus and Mens Rea of theft, therefore a theft has been committed. It is obvious I dont think computers and MP3 players are illegal, you are blowing things out of proportion. I suggest you get a grip and admit defeat.

It is NOT stealing, if the OWNER gives it away. The technology isn't illegal, some files shared with it are. It's like if a friend gives you his CD, yes, you're permanently depriving him of it, but WITH HIS PERMISSION. That, is NOT illegal. You are losing this argument. Their have been several court rulings world wide claiming torrents ETC. aren't illegal. Throwing in law related latin like Mens Rea doesn't change that.

yes, if someone gives you a CD you are perminently depriving them of it, but you are not appropriating it (taking without permission) and for a theft you need both the Actus Reus (appropriation) and the Mens Rea (intention to perminently deprive). When I made this thread, I had Things like Limewire in mind, not things like WoW. I was talking about copyright infringement, and the majority of people got that. apart from you. The reason I put in the latin was because those are the words for them, I'm not sure I can explain them any other way. It was pretty obvious that I was not talking about people giving things away.

 

[TelHybrid]

It is theft, yes, but it isn't destroying the music industry. The music industry was already dying before the downloading rage started. In fact, file-sharing has even given an impulse to CD sales. People who download a lot are often also the people who buy more CDs.

This sums it up rather well. I also add, many people who download music, even if they don't eventually end up buying the CD, will still pay to see the bands live in concert/at gigs.

 

[NoblePhilistineFox]

If you forgo buying a CD or paying online for a free alternative, I doubt it's legal. They don't charge you just so you can find a way around the price. I keep hearing people cite fair use, and I'm thinking that's for actual use, as in using a song in the credits of your video, with appropriate acknowledgement of its origin. I'm no lawyer though, so I'm just guessing.

Like I said, my source is unreliable :/
if you get the referancee for it Ill send you a video though ^_^

 

[Snor]

i do see why one would consider it theft but i believe its not.

I bet that many of you have borrowed a game from a friend and installed it on your computer, or watched a movie in your classroom. that's all considered copyright infringement. piracy is just the 21st century form.

Personally I don't upload stuff or anything and don't pirate excessive amounts, but I'm sure not going to pay for a mediocre game of which I don't even know it runs on my pc. saying this if pirating wasn't possible I wouldn't have bought it either.

I don't see how the music and games industry is ever going to destroy pirating but they can learn from using the torrent platforms. decrease prices and save money on distribution and logistic activities by using download platforms like steam but then better (every developer for themselves)

the problem lies in the fact that an infinite amount of "clones" can be made from your product. now the question is: is copying a book the same as stealing a book? and is the copied book then automatically owned by the originals owner?

 

[oranger]

I believe that while copyright is legitimate, it is also immoral.
Once something is sold, it no longer belongs to you, and without prior agreements, you no longer have any say in what happens with said sold item.
On the other hand, I believe Trademark IS ethical, as it does not allow individuals to own ideas, it simply gives credit to the original creators of said sold item.

Yes, that's right: I imagine a world without copyright, where the craftsman must create new things to continue earning money.
And thus technology and culture would advance continually, and the uncreative would be...phased out.