I'm beginning to hate Valve.

[Requia]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

Valve's microtransactions are all in free to play games. There's a difference between "here's a free game, want to upgrade it?", and "here's a 60$ game, want to upgrade it?"

 

[Frozengale]

OMG! VALVE ACTUALLY TAKES THE TIME TO WORK ON AND DEVELOP THEIR GAMES! THIS IS A CRIME I SAY! I MEAN EVERY OTHER COMPANY RUSHES GAMES TO MARKET AND GIVES US MEDIOCRE TRIPE SO WHY CAN'T VALVE!

I mean let's just forget for a second that Valve has steadily been releasing games for the past 10 years. Yes ladies and gentlemen that is at least one game every single year from Valve since 2003. But they actually take the time and effort to complete a project to its fullest before releasing it. If it takes 5+ years to make a game good then they will spend 5+ years on it.

In a world where we have stuff like Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 being hurt by early rushes why oh why oh why would you ever complain about a single solitary company taking their freaking sweet time to give us a game.

And why do you think they lied to you? When did they say "We are going to stick to the episodic thing no matter what!" They said, "Hey we're gonna do this episodic thing! OH wait it's not working as well as we hoped... back to our original schedule."

 

[Lilani]

That's what you're going with? Forgetting the fact that instead of continuing the story of Half Life 1, HL2 just drops you into an entirely new story? Valve wanted to do an Orwellian dystopia SO BAD that they just redid the entire story, trading in The X-Files for 1984 because rebels fighting dictatorships were all the rage. The Combine is one of the biggest ass pulls in the entire series. Half Life 2 isn't a sequel, it's a reboot; it may have some nods to the original game, but it's a totally new thing. I wouldn't mind so much if the original Half Life trilogy tied up all the loose ends, but it didn't. Half Life 2 drops all the plot threads so it can do it's own thing. Why not just call it "Combine" or "The Harvest." The name Half Life 2 is useless.

What on earth are you going on about? HL2 is a sequel. It continued the narrative from HL1. Same characters, same continuity...that's all a sequel needs. Just because you don't like where it went from there doesn't mean it isn't a sequel. Back to the Future 3 became about Doc Brown finding love and a family. Total thematic change from the first, totally different setting and resolution. But I don't hear anybody trying to boot it from the trilogy.

 

[Vivi22]

We don't take that shit from other companies. This whole fiasco with Bioware and Mass Effect and more recently Gearbox and Aliens proves that. So what makes it okay for Valve? How is blatantly lying about their plans for a game any different from releasing bullshit like ACM?

The problem with your argument is that they didn't lie. They intended to release a trilogy as episodic content, and did release two games. The problem you seem to have is with the notion that a company should have the nerve to change those plans, as though they can't make whatever choices work best for them without consulting fans who whine and ***** like small children when you don't give them their bottle they wanted, or give them the expensive toy they asked for for their birthday.

At some point they decided that they didn't want to just ship out a third Half-Life 2 episode that was nothing more than a third Half-Life 2 episode. You don't have a right to know their reasons, but they've also never exactly lied and said it was going to come out next year or anything and failed to deliver with no explanation. Your insisting that they somehow lied on the scale of the false advertising Bioware did with Mass Effect 3, or the outright fraud that Gearbox and Sega perpetrated with ACM is such blatant fucking hyperbole that using it as the foundation of your argument basically renders your entire argument moot.

They didn't falsely advertise. They said they were going to make a game, but then two years later the plans changed. That doesn't mean that when they stated their original intentions that they were lying, it doesn't mean that they falsely advertised, and it certainly doesn't mean they defrauded anyone. That you are apparently unable to recognize that makes your entire argument fundamentally flawed and ultimately worthless.

Here's the thing you don't seem to get about Valve: they've explained their plans in detail plenty of times before. And inevitably pissed off fans when they failed to meet target release dates and everything else. So instead of doing that, they show games when they're pretty close to being ready for release and they keep their mouths shut until they know for sure they'll meet expectations.

So which way do you want it? Do you want the company that's been releasing a game a year minimum and always meets customer expectations, or the one that promises things far in advance and sometimes realizes that something won't pan out and has to shift gears? Because we're talking about a company that has scrapped final game builds and started from scratch more than once because the games weren't good enough. If you're honestly going to complain about them not promising things before they can deliver them anymore then I have to question your intentions, because right now you're complaining about not getting enough info (which you are not entitled to), but something tells me if they went back to giving too much info too early you'd be just as happy to slam them for that. But you can't have it both fucking ways, so if them playing their cards close until they're ready to hype something bothers you, feel free to rant somewhere else because I doubt if anyone else really gives a shit that you aren't being told as much as you'd like.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

You speak of Valve ruining TF, you'll have to elaborate on that since no news stories pop up on google.
Also what's terribly ugly about Valve handling DOTA well? You say they are good stewards yet say it's a bad thing, you make no sense.

The changes made between even Team Fortress and Team Fortress classic were signficiant. TF2 barely resembled Team Fortress and the hats and additional weapons altered it further.

My perception is that it was ruined largely because I really loved Team Fortress and the Mega mod. Basically, <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks>They changed it. That said, that position is largely irrelevant because millions love the new version and I don't begrudge them that. Indeed, my comment about the franchise being ruined was built on hyperbole for the sake of humor though, I admit, that may not be terribly clear.

So you're looking so forward to a game that you develop apathy?

No. Valve has consistently failed to produce a game I want to play for years now. Given that is their only direct slight against me, the only thing that causes (in my case) is apathy. I can't hate them for not making something I want when there are a whole host of considerations beyond my tastes to take into account. That said, not everyone is as forgiving of such things as I - you'll note the OP takes this endless delay as an outright lie - a position that implies a far stronger emotional reaction.

It required a scan of your entire system (Steam does not require this and when allowed only scans certain files connected to steam)

Because of how a windows machine stores such information, to get the specific information they need a full scan would be necessary. What they do with that information is entirely another matter.

But, the EULA specifically allows for spying upon installed hardware, software, and active processes. Again, the only variable here is what you believe they do with that information. With Origin, people tend to assume something evil while with Valve they assume it is entirely benign in spite of the fact they don't exactly specify what they are searching for other than in broad terms.

All accounts associated with a banned user's computer are banned (son gets banned, brother, sister, dad, and mom are banned as well)

With Steam, a ban of an account (which the EULA only lists a non-inclusive list of possible reasons for such a ban) means the end user loses all rights to any game they previously purchased. This is more or less what happens with Origin.

The difference here is that I have heard a story or two about someone being banned for a presuambly trumped up offense in the case of Origin while I don't recall any such story about Valve. Of course, even in those cases where there is the tale that proves the evil in the case of EA, the user in question was generally acting in an inappropriate fashion. While some might think that this is insufficient cause to ban a user, that was an agreed upon condition. Moreover, it isn't as though even the most egregious ban by EA was the result of action a user took elsewhere. In each case it was based upon actions within games or on EA owned forums. My sympathy in such cases is dramatically reduced given the wide number of other forums where one can freely complain and call names without such risks.

Questionably perma bans without information and poor customer service
Being banned on a forum gets your Origin account banned losing all access to purchased games.

That isn't a questionable ban and is part of the agreement made upon installing Origin. As I pointed out above there are plenty of places one can go and complain without any risk of reprisal. Being a foul mouthed troll on an EA board might not be a good cause to lose access to games but, then, that is (at this point), an activity known to be high risk. And, of course, even in the cited cases, we have relatively little information upon which to judge EA's performance. EA simply doesn't comment and the user's story is, almost ceratinly, inclined to paint them in a better light than reality would.

I guess there are some people who hate this type of thing, honestly I think it's great when a small team gets hired by a bigger company.

I don't personally hate it; I simply point it out because other companies do precisely the same thing and the internet howls for blood.

If I remember correctly there was some talk of legal action between some of the makers of the original DOTA, I don't think Blizzard even came into the picture because it was a mod remade from the WC3 engine to an entirely original engine with all Blizzard content removed. I guess you could make the argument that DOTA too closely follows WC3's unit control styles but that would be an issue for the court, Blizzard never brought it to court which either speaks for them as a good company or that their lawyers saw nothing in the case, I'd say it was a bit of both.

This is a case where I'm simply confused by the results. I only recall the tiff over the name and even that seems to have fallen off the radar. Most highly modable games specifically state that the developer/publisher outright own any and all derivative works. Given that we haven't heard much about legal action and valve is moving forward with various pay schemes, I have to assume there is something different about this case.

I go back to my original point, your entire argument against Valve hinges on half truths and misrepresentations of past mistakes by other companies.

I'm not making any direct comparisons. I'm simply pointing out a list of activities that Valve is associated with that have, when done by other companies, resulted in an uproar. My point is simply that I can understand hating valve as much as I can understand hating EA. I don't personally hate either company - that kind of reaction would require a far more personal slight than either company is likely to manage.

Origin was not equal to Steam, it was a shit copy with many mistakes that quickly grew ire from users.

The purpose of the service, the basic method by which they work, and the potential evils that lurk within are identical. Sure, there are differences in how well the two services work, and what the two services offer but those are incidental differences. If you hate Origin because of the spyware and DRM and all the rest then the only reason you don't hate Steam for the same is because you have a better opinion of Valve.

Perception is fundamentally the key difference in response between the two.

EA has made many mistakes in the past, so people are less forgiving of them when they make smaller mistakes, we're still getting Sim Cities from EA and Diablo 3s from Activision, while they are not bad companies these are valid marks against them. Valve? Honestly has done very little to be angry at, they hire indi developers, they require steam for their games (which can be run offline), they take a long ass time to make a game, these a bad company does not make.

Sure, EA has made mistakes - so has Activision. But they are, by and large, predictable. EA had project ten dollar but I cannot personally begrudge them wanting to make something off a used sale. There have been rocky launches of games requiring online but, again, it should have been assumed from the start that such launches would be terrible. Hell, I can't point to a major EA release that had a significant online component that worked well out of the box on release week except, perhaps, Mass Effect 3.

That doesn't excuse the failure of course but it's hard to be angry when I managed to avoid each and every one of those disasters by simply having the wherewithal to recognize a pattern and wait to purchase the new hot always online game a few weeks after launch. Sure, EA and Activision ought to do better but they have consistently demonstrated either an inability or unwillingness to do so. But if you actually believe that the next time around they'll have a smooth launch then you are as culpable for your frustration as they are.

By contrast, Valve has also made mistakes that angered people. Lots of them. They have simply manged to keep those mistakes minor enough and spaced far enough apart that the narrative about them being the good guys has remained intact.

While far from an inclusive list, I can recall some amount an rancor being generated from things like:

L4D 2 being released as a stand alone rather than DLC
L4D having very little in the way of DLC
HL2E3 being delayed
TF2 and Portal being included in the orange box and not initially available for separate retail
Hats in TF2
Alternate Weapons in TF2
Various changes made to Counter-Strike over the years.
The Dota situation
Steam's god awful launch
Greenlight

And that's just off the top of my head. The difference that I see is that none of those concerns ever really built any sort of critical mass of discussion. They have, thus far, never had a misstep that has really drawn the attention of their entire fan base.

-edit- In a surprising twist, my link to TV tropes (and natural link following) showed me that I'm not alone in missing the ancient Team Fortress. Thankfully, people with more free time than me made fortress forever which is now on greenlight and is otherwise currently free to download and play. For once, TV tropes has improved my life.

 

[Storm Dragon]

I love how every video game related thread on this forum has the potential to spawn an argument about Mass Effect 3's ending somewhere within it.

As for Half-Life 3, I think that the reason people give Valve a pass is because every game that they've released so far has been worth the wait, and a wait this long is not without precedent. Remember Team Fortress 2? It was announced in 1998 and wasn't released until nine years later in 2007.

 

[Frozengale]

and sit on their high chair without communicating their plans or anything.

It's hard for baby Gaben to communicate while in his high chair

[http://s10.photobucket.com/user/PenguinKnight/media/gabenchair_zps9e5ce967.jpg.html]

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I think you don't quite understand what a sequel is. A sequel doesn't mean similar tone, setting, or plot. In fact, doing JUST those things would give you a duplication of the original, not a sequel. A sequel is simply a continuation of events. It continues the narrative, but doesn't necessarily have to have the same tone or setting. And that's exactly what HL2 is.

That's what you're going with? Forgetting the fact that instead of continuing the story of Half Life 1, HL2 just drops you into an entirely new story? Valve wanted to do an Orwellian dystopia SO BAD that they just redid the entire story, trading in The X-Files for 1984 because rebels fighting dictatorships were all the rage. The Combine is one of the biggest ass pulls in the entire series. Half Life 2 isn't a sequel, it's a reboot; it may have some nods to the original game, but it's a totally new thing. I wouldn't mind so much if the original Half Life trilogy tied up all the loose ends, but it didn't. Half Life 2 drops all the plot threads so it can do it's own thing. Why not just call it "Combine" or "The Harvest." The name Half Life 2 is useless.

Continuing the Story:

The events of HL2 are as a direct result of the events of Hl1. While the combine were unknown before the events of HL2, there wasn't much left to work with since the sole Psychic overlord of the invading forces was defeated, releasing control of all the lesser aliens it had enslaved (and theorised that it also resulted in the extinction of all the lesser Alien Controllers, due to psychic feedback upon death).

Combine being an Ass pull plot device:

You mentioned earlier that you "always have OpFor"... which if I recall had a completely new race of aliens that just so happened to be invading at the exact same time, but with different motivations (and not under the control of the Nihilanth) and were never encountered once by either Barney (in the canon expansion, Blue Shift) or Gordon over the course of HL1. But no, that's legit to you, while the opportunistic conquesting invaders that crossed an inter dimensional breach created by the death of the Nihilanth is total bogus.

Drops all Plot threads:

Well forgetting that the only plot thread that mattered was resolved in Half-Life 1 (stopping the forces of Xen), with only an ambiguous encounter with the G-Man to elude to a potential sequel (by you getting hired and being put on Ice until called for), HL2 does continue the issue of dimensional breaches and the threats that can spawn from them.

Changing its name:

What has "Half Life" got to do with inter dimensional alien invaders? Why didn't they call it Invaders? Oh wait, it's because it's just a title and not a fucking synopsis.

EDIT:

I'm curious, what exactly did you have in mind for a sequel to Half Life? Clearly you had completely different story in mind, since your brain refuses to acknowledge the official sequel.

Maybe you should write it as fan fiction.

 

[NiPah]

Snip

I agree with you pretty much on all counts, I think our disagreement mostly stemmed from minutia.
Honestly you?ve stated some things you?re right to be irked about, not to hate but as you?ve said hate does not factor into this. I do not agree with Origin being equal to Steam, while EULAs may be quite similar the actual acting on the ability to is what differs, I?ve never heard of Valve banning people who bad mouth on forums, nor of banning accounts simply for using a computer used by a someone who was banned, and I haven?t heard Valve banning people from using purchased games (from servers yes) for infractions. I have heard of Origin doing all these things, which colors my opinion, I could be wrong but again I?ve spent at least 5 minutes Googling stories. Also predictably failing is not a good thing, while it makes it easy to avoid it?s a point against EA and a point towards Valve making them in that respect unequal.
About TF2? Never played the first nor second, I can understand being pissed about changes so I would agree that it?s nor a mark against Valve but something to be irked at on a personal level.
About the hiring of indi teams I would argue that those who were pissed about EA hiring an indi team are basing their hate on EA?s history, you?re right that less people cry bloody murder but this is because historically Valve does it right, at least from what I?ve read of those indi developer?s accounts of the story.
On account of hating EA or Valve I can agree that there shouldn?t be hate involved, but I would argue Valve is a better company given their history and actions.
Even given their mistakes (some of which I agree and disagree with) I?d say EA and Valve are not equal, both are not perfect sure.

 

[Dragonbums]

The thing is is that Valve has shown time and time again that when they make a new game, you are guaranteed to have a solid $60.00 experience.Knowing that, people don't care if they wait 10 years for the next game, because they know that when the game does come out it's going to be awesome as hell. With the revenue they make from Steam they have the luxury to take their sweet time.
So many people within the Mass Effect fanbase wished the game took longer to develop. The time and care that went into the first two games were not present in the third, and it shows. You can tell which plots had a lot of thought put into it like the Genophage ark, and which ones were just rushed to finish on deadline. The whole story broke apart near the end.
Also in terms of lying, it isn't really the same. What enrages gamers more is when devs lie about the content that will be present in game. As opposed to release dates.
Again, Mass Effect got a lot of flack for the ending due in part that the creators have said specifically for years what the ending WASN'T going to be, and it turned out, the ending came out exactly like that.
People are so used to Valve's long ass deadlines that no one fucking cares anymore.

I'm not saying you can't get upset. However I'd rather have a good game then a rushed game.

 

[TWEWYFan]

Ultimately, I think it's because Valve is behind a lot of high quality stuff that lot of gamers hold dear(Half-Life, Portal, Steam) while at the same time not producing anything overtly bad (like the ending to ME3 or ACM). This causes most gamers to be inclined to give them more leeway and to pass off annoying business practices as quirky rather than bad.

 

[Virgilthepagan]

I mean, it's a little disappointing that we aren't getting the episode...ok it's very disappointing, but as others have pointed out they aren't exactly setting release dates then ignoring them. They just aren't bothering to set them at all.

I think the notion of Valve time is a little ridiculous at this point though, and I'll admit it's frustrating to feel like they kind of shrugged their shoulders at anyone looking for closure to the story. That said, I've liked most of the games they've made in the mean time, and their loyalty to TF2 is commendable. As you've noted it's been five years since the Orange Box, and that game's still getting new content on a regular basis. I'm also a huge fan of Steam and a big supporter of the service. I'm willing to cut them some slack, there's enough for me to play until they get around to it again. Just think of them as the George RR Martin of gaming companies.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

So you have just no idea what you are talking about. TF2 saw more than 'just' hats updates, DOTA2 does not get only balance patches but is still a work in development and 'updating' CS was still creating a new game. Then there is all the work they've done not realted to straight game releases.

But yes, tell me how you are right that this is not a lot of work.

Not for two entire years. Atlus remade Soul Hackers for the 3DS, remade Persona 4 for the Vita, developed and localized Etrian Odyssey IV, and have a full length SMT title in the works, in addition to publishing countless other games and that was just in this past year. Visceral Games made Dead Space 3 and Army of Two 3 and released both of them this year. Since 2011, Volition made Saints Row 3, Red Faction: Armageddon, and has Saints Row 4 actively in development. Blizzard made Diablo 3, a WoW expansion, and a StarCraft expansion in that last year. Starting in 2011, Ubisoft Montreal made two Assassin's Creed games, Far Cry 3 (in addition to a standalone downloadable title on the same engine), has a new Assassin's Creed game coming out soon, and Watch Dogs in development.

I'm not saying that Valve isn't a hardworking company. I'm sure you need plenty of people to balance the in-game economies and create new content to keep their communities fresh. I also understand that Steam is a whole different entity and I'm glad that we have it. I'm just saying compared to nearly any other major active game studio, the amount of content that they release is obviously lacking. If you truly believe a nearly free to play MOBA that hasn't even been released yet and a crappy arcade Call of Duty ripoff is adequate, go ahead and continue worshiping Valve. Christ, this is even coming from a Valve fan. Like I said earlier, I own almost all of their games. I have dumped over 250 hours into CS:S, nearly 86 into L4D and 225 into L4D2, and 190 into TF2. Check my Steam stats. The Orange Box was the first game I ever bought for the 360 and I've beaten Half Life 2 multiple times and I still do Portal speedruns for fun. But even I can see how they've been disappointing on their releases recently.

Either way, if that's enough to satisfy you, so be it, because I truly don't care. I get that they don't "owe" me anything and I get that nearly everyone on this site is willing to battle to the death anyone who brings out the slightest flaw in a company they like. Point is, we've been waiting since 2007 for any continuation of the Half Life story, which ended on an enormous cliffhanger. If EA did this, it would just be used as evidence for them being the worst company evarr.

 

[pspman45]

the difference is
Valve only makes good games
Bioware made Dragon Age 2
Gearbox and friends made Aliens Colonial Marines, AND Duke Nukem Forever
so I don't think comparing them to valve is fair

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

the difference is
Valve only makes good games
Bioware made Dragon Age 2
Gearbox and friends made Aliens Colonial Marines, AND Duke Nukem Forever
so I don't think comparing them to valve is fair

Actually, gearbox more or less just released Duke Nukem Forever. And, while all signs say someone else developed Aliens, Gearbox claimed they were working on it forever so I'm fine counting that one against them.

Still, was anyone really of the opinion Duke would be anything but a train wreck? more than a decade in development, at least three major redesigns and the collapse of a company did not inspire confidence in me.

 

[DoPo]

Blizzard made Diablo 3, a WoW expansion, and a StarCraft expansion in that last year.

Wait, you think Blizzard worked on any of these for A YEAR?! Erm...no, no they didn't. StarCraft 2's expansions were planned out and announced from before it was released. While exact dev time is not known, I highly doubt it was "a year" - work on the story was done from before even SC2 was released, actual more focused development started later but it's not like they just crammed it for a year. Heck, in 2011 they said it would take a year and it then took two after the announcement (which was around the February-March as I recall, so pretty much exactly 2 years). As for WoW - Blizzard are actually known to be developing the next expansion before even releasing the current one they are working on (I don't think we have exact info on the the dev cycle but that much we do know). For reference, before the second new race in Burning Crusade was announced, one of the more credible leaked informations pointed at the the Worgen joining the Alliance. They didn't appear (as playable) until Cataclysm and the leaked info was spot on (as much as it could, that is - it was their story, motive and background with an outline of the abilities). Diablo 3 was in development for quite some time, too - six to be precise - that we do know.

 

[hooglese]

It's cool to wait for the game to be ready to be released so that when it comes out it's not ET, and QA takes time, but they have released no info as to any new games to be released. I want them to just tell the truth about what they do; they make games when they want to. Honestly, I'm cool with that, it insures that the games they make are going to be good. I am not cool with them saying that that's not what they do and they'll release games on a regular bases.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I'm pretty sure they're not releasing any info due to most of the game being prone to change, and they don't want to build huge amounts of hype that leads to disappointment. This has the unintended side-effect of building huge amounts of hype that will inevitably lead to disappointment.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Umm what? That's some entitlement complex you got on ya. It's one thing to spend money on a product and then feel like it isn't what was promised to you when you bought it, but THEY'RE TAKING TOO LONG TO GIVE ME THINGS TO SPEND MONEY ON is not really a valid consumer complaint. If valve really wanted to it would be well within its rights to discontinue half life entirely.