I'm beginning to hate Valve.

[major_chaos]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

 

[lacktheknack]

I fail to see how them basically pulling a early-stage Duke Nukem Forever on us (minus the fact that Duke Nukem Forever actually had release dates, whereas Half Life (2: Episode) 3 never did) somehow makes them worth hating in the face of Steam, Portal 2, Team Fortress 2, Aliem Swarm, etc.

Of all the actually valid complaints you could run with, you chose this?

I understand your point perfectly, OP... it's just a really dumb and petty point, and I think you could do with more conflict and/or goals to work for in your life if "taking a long time" causes you to hate a company.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

So tell me, just how do you get an "air of superiority and entitlement" from a company you supposedly hear nothing from? Hmm?

Valve have so many projects on the go at once, they have to maintain Steam (possibly the biggest and most successful online distributor of video games) as well as develop various entries in their various franchises. Half Life is their flag ship title, just give them some time. Quite frankly, as far as I'm concerned, they can be as entitled as they like so long as the game's good when we get it.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

You forgot to mention how they openly mock the notion of coming out with HL3 from time to time.

But seriously, I guess I'm not enough of a "hardcore gamer" to bend over and present myself for Valve, to be quite honest the ony Valve games I've ever played are Portals 1 and 2 and L4D 1 and 2. I don't know what all the hub-bub is about this so-called "Half Life" and why it's apparently the sexiest thing since sex. All I know is that like Duke Nukem Forever, people have been waiting forever for the new HL game to come out.

That being said, from my understanding Valve as a company does so many things right - apparently Steam, not Half Life, is actually the sexiest thing since sex - that people are willing to forgive them for not coming out with that fantasy game known as Half Life 3 or Half Lie 2 Episode 7 or whatever it is that people are waiting for. Where as EA seems to be actively trying to piss off its consumer base with every decision it makes (at least they're pulling the Online Passes), Valve seems to do a lot of things to reward customer loyalty, they seem to like keeping their consumer base happy.

Sure, the Half Life deal is, from my understanding, the big 2-ton pink elephant sitting on an opera singer in the corner of the room, but the "good grades" in customer satisfaction due to all the other stuff they offer/do apparently makes up for it.

 

[Overusedname]

There's a moment in Bioshock Infinite I just played WAIT IT'S NOT A SPOILER COME BACK.

*ahem*, anyway, a man getting his shoes shined is raving on and on about how his architect is taking far to long to complete his renovations. "It's been months, and the mongolias arn't even in yet! He's only half done with the pavilion, the statuary hasn't arrived yet,' etc.

And it made me think about the small but loud outcry when Infinite delayed it's release. And the fact that artists and entertainers are always so pressured to complete work that takes a long time to make. Oft by folks that don't fully understand how long it takes to do the task at hand, or that other matters may have come up. I'm not saying I don't question Valve's work ethic from time to time. But they deliver results, they produce quality.

People also defend Miyamoto in a similar way. Pikmin and a REAL new Mario are on there way, but they're meticulously designed in everyway to provide a new, easy to learn and hard to master experience that raises the bar a little more each time.

People don't defend EA the same way because they rush their workers, disrespect the artists, writers and programmers and close studios daily. They don't take their time. Gamers don't defend Bethesda for similar reasons, though at least they can produce results sometimes.

It's a matter of faith. People know that some designers deserve more faith than others.

 

[Vigormortis]

snipped for space considerations

I believe our opinions, at least in regard to the topic at hand, are in alignment.

Game development studios and publishers (at least most of them) have learned that one of the last things you want to do when you start a project, or even when deep into the production of a title, is to openly show it off before it's close to a finalized build. I mean, God forbid you showcase blue trees in an alpha build and change them to orange ones in the final build. Gamers would lose their minds.

Especially in todays gamer culture. If there's one thing we've all learned it's that gamers today not only hype themselves* into unrealistic levels of anticipation and expectation, but they're willing to react harshly if those expectations aren't met. Some going so far as to seek legal action.

[sub]* This is a systemic issue. The industry overhypes the products just as much as the fans do.[/sub]

I've been anticipating the next installment of Half-Life just as long as anyone else. I've been a fan of the series since 1998. Even so, I'll be the first to tell people to just relax, learn some patience, and wait. Valve IS working on the game. That much has become apparent from several statements made by Newell and others in recent years. So everyone chill. The game will release when they're done coding it and are satisfied with it's level of quality. In the mean time, there are thousands of other games to play.

snipped for space considerations

You'll see that a lot in these kinds of threads. Someone will start things off with petty complaints or ludicrous claims based on misinformation or opinion, oft times questioning how anyone could possibly like the company and it's products.

Following that you'll occasionally see a poster come in and defend any-and-everything pertaining to Valve with extreme fervor. However, the majority of the posts will be calm, level-headed responses; responses that often poke holes in the ridiculous arguments and claims being levied by the OP. And, these same responses are made by Valve fans and non-fans alike.

But then, you'll start to see people, like the one you quoted, who come in with more petty complaints, misinformation, and personal attacks on anyone that disagrees with them. These types of posts often greatly (ironically) outnumber the illogical, fervent defense posts.

Somewhere along the way a lot of people around here forgot that differing opinions aren't something to chastise others over.

snipped for space considerations

Even worse, when some people actually do bring genuine, quantifiable, legitimate complaints to the discussion, their posts are quickly lost to the flood of nonsense claims and exaggeration.

For every poster that brings up something like, for example, Steams lack of certain currency conversions, you'll see three or four dozen people whining about Steam's "monopoly" or claiming Valve "hasn't made a game since Half-Life 2".

Come on people! There is plenty to discuss in regards to things Valve needs to fix or address. You really, REALLY don't need to sit around making shit up. It does no one any good.

 

[Frostbite3789]

So I'm a big Valve cautionary, but I think anything more extreme than cautious approval is probably going to far.

The second part of your statement makes the first part of your statement untrue. Sorry to tell you.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

I edited my post for clarification on that issue.

On the other hand, I do think differential treatment of Origin and Steam should be discussed seriously.

 

[Cecilo]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

Because they gave me Team Fortress 2 and DOTA 2 for free. They make up that money (That other companies charge me 40-60 dollars for), in micro transactions. Where as EA goes "Okay. here is a 60 dollar game with 20 more dollars of content cut from it that we want you to pay for now" Valve has not done that. They gave me a free game, and an OPTION to buy more content, that if I dont want to pay for. I CAN JUST PLAY TO GET.

Team Fortress and DOTA 2 - Random Drops. So. No. It isn't comparable because I got the base game and the content for free. And I can earn the Micro transaction content FOR FREE. Except Chests. You have to pay for keys.

Beyond that, they give me great sales twice a year. I can save 20-40 dollars on a game I want to buy. If I see a game with a lot of DLC for it. I wait for it to go on sale. Then buy the DLC. They have made purchasing PC Games convenient, and enjoyable. And Sure.. It is DRM. But it isn't inconvenient DRM, it is a DRM that rewards me for using it rather than being a big monster in the corner. Looking over my shoulder and smashing my head into my desk if I dare do something it doesn't like.

And Finally, Yea, a lot of people decryed Origin, some because of the "EA IS SPYING ON US". But I think a lot of people saw it as a "I'm taking my ball and starting my own game over there, and you cant join", when they pulled recently released games from steam, and stuck it on Origin. Steam if nothing else, doesn't do that, they don't force exclusivity on those who use steam.

 

[Lightknight]

I hate the way they give me great deals on great (and not great) games.

It's terrible how now all my games are conveniently located in one location that allows me to install it anywhere in the world without a disk.

My life is so much sadder for having been allowed to enjoy Half Life, Portal, Counter Strike, Left 4 Dead and Team fortress.

It sure makes me hungry angry when I think of all the wonderful games that have been allowed to use the Source engine

Joking aside, you don't hate a company for not putting things out. You begin to forget a company for that. I do really wish that Valve would start releasing more games. But since that's not what they're doing, I'm just happy they're doing so much good for the gaming community. They've certainly revolutionized how I get games.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normally boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

It isn't that they've never done anything that makes them inherently trustworthy. I mean, we've never had the opportunity so see them roll up to the scene of an armored car crash and then get out to help the guards collect the cash.

No, what it is is that they've had the opportunity, time and again, to do everything that EA has done and more. Instead, they provide a top notch service and do a great job supporting their games and even provide us with the means to mod a lot of their stuff for extended enjoyment. When comparing them to EA it's a no brainer. We see two companies that have had a similar degree of control over the customers who have both taken very different routes (granted, "so far").

Question, do you have a few examples of actions they've taken that other publishers would be crucified for?

 

[Callate]

Amidst all the chest-thumping, I'd like to make one small point:

Activision has around 7,000 employees.

EA has over 9,000. (Not a DBZ reference, just happens to be so.)

Valve? Around 400.

...Yeah.

So, yes, I'd like for them to be more up-front about what they're doing; I'd sure like it if they got something Half-Life related out of the pan. But on the other hand, they're making world-class games and keeping the most popular digital games marketplace cranking 24/7 with a roster that looks like a skeleton crew compared to most of their neighbors; I'm prepared to cut them a little slack.

 

[BrotherRool]

So I'm a big Valve cautionary, but I think anything more extreme than cautious approval is probably going to far.

The second part of your statement makes the first part of your statement untrue. Sorry to tell you.

I think people get so weirdly hyped up about Valve that a small nod of approval really is a big step in the other direction. And considering the quality of games they've produced and the way they manage and pay their staff and especially their relationship to the modding community, steps into the actual negative (except when Steam related) aren't well founded

 

[UltraPic]

Back in the late 90's, early 2000s, PC gaming was dying because:

1) Games were the same price as console games, yet couldn't be resold, and were usually lower quality if they were ports.

2) Loads of shovelware similar to the Atari Fiasco

3) PC optimization wasn't great for a lot of developers.

Consoles simply offered a much better experience. Valve and Steam knocked off the first two problems, by allowing PC gamers to get games that were cheaper than in stores, and sort through the clutter better. It can be said that PC gaming would have died without Steam. That said, Valve deserves the criticism it should get (see above post).

Where did you get that from, the late 90's and early 2000's where massive boom years for pc gaming even without valve and it's one game. So massive that we are still riding the wave today.

 

[Silvanus]

I would disagree. They promised 3 episodes. They gave 2 so the story isnt finished. I played HF2 on the Orange box release in 2007. A half finished game that they dont want to finish. If any other company release a game with only two thirds the content, there would be anarchy. But yet valve gets let off with the " they will get round to it one day and it will be good". They are like cowboy builders. They made people pay for an incomplete story. If EA did the same thing, people would explode from all there bitching.

But what was your end of this bargain? A politician is obligated to stick to promises because we give them votes on that understanding. There was no deal made. We have upheld no side of any bargain to then feel betrayed.

We've given them nothing except money for products they've released.

 

[Legion]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

The assumption is that it's the same people who both hate EA's micro-transactions and are okay with Valve's. Unless you can name people who have contradicted themselves like this, it's probably best to assume that they are not the same individuals.

I would disagree. They promised 3 episodes. They gave 2 so the story isnt finished. I played HF2 on the Orange box release in 2007. A half finished game that they dont want to finish. If any other company release a game with only two thirds the content, there would be anarchy. But yet valve gets let off with the "they will get round to it one day and it will be good".

The people who left Godzilla on a cliff hanger back in 1998 must be the biggest bastards in the world then.

If Valve had given a release date and kept pushing it back, I'd be in agreement. But considering Half Life 1 was released on the 19th of November 1998 and Half Life 2 was released on the 14th of November 2004, I'd say we should probably not be too surprised at it taking so long.

They are like cowboy builders. They made people pay for an incomplete story. If EA did the same thing, people would explode from all there bitching.

They did not "make" people do anything, nor did people sign a contract under the agreement that the sequel would be made. So the cowboy builder comparison doesn't work.

They are also just games. I know we like taking these things seriously, but when it comes down to it, they are forms of entertainment. If a persons life is so good that they can summon the energy to hate a company purely for not releasing an entertainment product in a timely manner, then I am incredibly envious.

 

[Defeated Detective]

Valve do need to get called out on taking too long to develop a game, but they haven't been tempting fans, they haven't been trolling us with promises, they haven't proposed deadlines and announcements and missed or postponed them. They've kept quiet to avoid fan disappointment and have been releasing other games, working on improving their flagship online store/community/DRM system Steam and are currently porting all their back catalogue of games to Linux, so they are genuinely busy.

Pretty much this. Not to mention why hate Valve as a whole for this small issue? they're basically doing the community service by putting up sales of popular games for up to 75% off, far more than all known online retailers such as Amazon and Origin.

I've pretty much assumed that Valve as a company is in a financially lofty position to not worry about making games for a while, with no clear problem in sight, there's no issue for them to rush Episode 3.

 

[DoPo]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

The assumption is that it's the same people who both hate EA's micro-transactions and are okay with Valve's. Unless you can name people who have contradicted themselves like this, it's probably best to assume that they are not the same individuals.

Furthermore the assumption is that the entire argument they have is "MICROTRANSACTIONS ARE TEH DEIVLZ!!!111!!ONE!!" instead of "Microtransactions, as implemented by some companies, are not good and can be done better".

CAPTCHA: i love you
That's sweet but off to the friendzone, you. MWAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Arina Love]

i never liked them to begin with so meh don't really care what game they release or working on.