I'm confused, does Earth remember what happens in Doctor Who or does it all get forgotten?

[Zontar]

Now I know that Doctor Who has a very loose sense of cannon (anything can happen or be changed so long that specific events which happen ever so often remain unchanged and some time wibbilly wobbily will force the timeline to still work), but something which has been nagging me for a while now is if people seem to even remember what has happened in the show (even more so since it was brought up in the latest episode). Now U.N.I.T. seems to remember everything, every alien invasion, every mad scientist project run amuck, the Earth being pulled into another part of the universe, the Darlek invasions, the alien invasion, the alien invasions, the other alien invasion (seriously, between the full on invasion, covert invasions and the lone alien individuals and groups which aren't invasions but still annoyances I think Doctor Who is right between Marvel and DC's comics in terms of frequency of invasions by aliens).

Now what we do know is that the UK alone has two agencies dedicated to handling these things, one an official military outfit and an unofficial spy agency which makes MI6 look like the post office (to the point where I'm not buying the idea that after what happened to Torchwood 1 in London that 3 was all that was left. I fully believe that 1 was completly rebuilt and what we saw in the show was just the small-fry that aren't important enough to use the resources of the main base of operation, but too important to not have a dedicated firebase to handle them). Now these organizations have a lot of big guns, up to and including a surface to space laser capable of taking out alien capital ships in one shot. It's also crazy to assume other nations don't have equivalent organizations, even it not as well equipped as those in the UK.

What I'm saying is the military and government remembers everything that happens in the DW universe.

But the regular people don't seem to. Despite the alien invasions and everything else that's generally weird going on, a lot of people are unreasonably skeptical about claims made of aliens. With how often an alien or monster has been responsible for some mayhem that was unable to be covered up, it's odd that an old man using a telescope to try and see aliens would be viewed as a nut when it's perfectly reasonable to try and spot something you know is out there. But at the same time there have been plenty of memory of aliens coming to Earth by the common man as well, what with London being almost deserted on Christmas due to the tendency of aliens showing up on that day in that place and being all alien while are aliening up the place.

So what I'm trying to figure out is: do the normal people of Earth in the Doctor Who world remember the crazy shit that goes down or not? It's incredibly inconsistent on the matter outside of the government and military, and this latest season only more so then ever (though it's been that way in regard to everything related to the series so far, to the point that I wouldn't be surprised that the twist this season is that none of this has been real. That would at least partially explain what has thus far been the worst written season since the return 9 years ago)

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

In all honesty, I think it's whatever the writers want it to be for any particular episode.

People need to be surprised by the weird thing? They have forgotten all the alien encounters that have occurred before.

The story arc requires reference back to a previous episode? People remember the past experience.

Consistency has never been a strong point of the Doctor Who franchise. And weak or inconsistent writers *cough*Moffat*cough* just make things even more screwy.

 

[Biran53]

An interesting theory (running even during the Classic episodes) was that the Doctor's constant meddling with Earth's history throughout adventures and shennanegans puts the planet in a state of constant flux. History is constantly being rewritten and unwritten even due to the smallest of changes in the past. The future remains roughly the same, but slightly different.

Plus, I think it was (admittedly) a mistake to have the Earth invaded so many goddamn times in earlier series of Nu Who. It was becoming ridiculous with every foreseeable villain trying to take over the planet every week. You'd think at some point Planet Earth would just say, "fuck it" obliterate any thing coming within a few light years of the planet's atmosphere.

 

[Zontar]

Plus, I think it was (admittedly) a mistake to have the Earth invaded so many goddamn times in earlier series of Nu Who. It was becoming ridiculous with every foreseeable villain trying to take over the planet every week. You'd think at some point Planet Earth would just say, "fuck it" obliterate any thing coming within a few light years of the planet's atmosphere.

It got pretty ridiculous. I mean there's a period (I can't remember if it was one or more seasons though) where the Doctor was trapped on Earth and working with U.N.I.T., and it was quite literally an invasion each week. Most of them where part of 2 or 3 part arcs where the invaders where the same ones episode to episode, but it's still a case of literally being a constant state of invasion.

I mean it is pretty ridiculous. If it had even half the reaction the real world would have the instant the tardis landed anywhere in the UK there'd be a unit from U.N.I.T. there in 5 minutes flat (2 minutes if it's in London). They'd probably have at least a platoon of men there right from the start, go into full mobilization and pull out the captured alien tech they'd learned how to use 'just in case' to help handle whatever has attracted the Doctor here THIS time.

You know, I think I just gave myself an idea for a fanfic. Couldn't be any worst then this season.

 

[Thaluikhain]

In Smith's era, he asks Amy to explain daleks to Churchill, but she doesn't know about him, and he says that's very strange, and it looks like that'd be part of the arc plot, but wasn't.

OTOH, in the old series, UNIT was formed in response to a monster attack, and seems to have odd special powers.

Generally, though, it seems that every story set on modern Earth is set on the real world, ish, which means last time's invasion doesn't count, because it'd change the world away from the one we know.

 

[Zontar]

Generally, though, it seems that every story set on modern Earth is set on the real world, ish, which means last time's invasion doesn't count, because it'd change the world away from the one we know.

I don't know, in the Titanic Christmas episode I'm pretty sure they referenced both the Christmas invasion and the incident with the space minors crashing into Big Ben as being the reason London was abandoned on Christmas Eve. It's safe to say that, no matter what else, those two events where significant enough to be remembered (and have the use of the aforementioned Surface to Space anti-ship laser).

So it seems that either there's a lot of unexplained timmy wimmy stuff going on, or lazy writing is lazy. Given who's in charge right now, my money's on the later.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Generally, though, it seems that every story set on modern Earth is set on the real world, ish, which means last time's invasion doesn't count, because it'd change the world away from the one we know.

I don't know, in the Titanic Christmas episode I'm pretty sure they referenced both the Christmas invasion and the incident with the space minors crashing into Big Ben as being the reason London was abandoned on Christmas Eve. It's safe to say that, no matter what else, those two events where significant enough to be remembered (and have the use of the aforementioned Surface to Space anti-ship laser).

So it seems that either there's a lot of unexplained timmy wimmy stuff going on, or lazy writing is lazy. Given who's in charge right now, my money's on the later.

Oh sure, people left London (temporarily) for Christmas. They didn't pass a zillion new laws, give emergency powers or increase recruitment to put soldiers on every street.

 

[ghalleon0915]

I've never really thought about that, but then again when watching the good Doctor I pretty much suspend my natural skepticism and just take it with a grain of salt. Oh big dinosaur wandering up and down the Thames? Sure, why not. Restaurant just up and flying in he middle of the day? Normal occurrence, don't even bat an eyelid.

I think it's just gotten to the point where there have been so many "resets" ( whether of the universal type or just earth-scale) nothing is immutable, and thus everything is always changing. As someone had said, consistency is not a strong point of the series and it is entirely possible that the writers simply didn't even think of whether to address the general population's recollection of various incidents, or just point to the aforementioned resets as " there, because of that thing".

It is a bit jarring though, because sometimes you will encounter either people or species that do recall varying events concerning the doctor...so perhaps they only concern themselves with those who will have some sort of interaction with him

 

[Netrigan]

The show largely makes a mockery of Continuity. The RTD years had yearly alien incursions and everyone just kind of forgot about them by the next episode... except when it was important to the plot to remember.

That's pretty much Who. The past doesn't matter except when it does. Drives the anals crazy, but it's part of the charm and why its so easy to jump on as a new viewer.

 

[JohnZ117]

In Smith's era, he asks Amy to explain daleks to Churchill, but she doesn't know about him, and he says that's very strange, and it looks like that'd be part of the arc plot, but wasn't.

Actually, it was part of the arc for that season. The cracks in time that were threatening to swallow the universe also caused those around them to forget things, as evidenced in many episodes.

 

[Thaluikhain]

In Smith's era, he asks Amy to explain daleks to Churchill, but she doesn't know about him, and he says that's very strange, and it looks like that'd be part of the arc plot, but wasn't.

Actually, it was part of the arc for that season. The cracks in time that were threatening to swallow the universe also caused those around them to forget things, as evidenced in many episodes.

They forgot things that were swallowed, I don't remember them forgetting anything that wasn't.

 

[Patrick Buck]

Honestly, most of the time it's forgotten, or only effects a small area (LONDON). But then Moffat... Moffat takes the cake. The insanity of the stuff happening, and it's all forgotten gets silly.

Basically, take if from episode to episode as forgotten, unless otherwise stated. Easiest way to do it.

 

[Loonyyy]

Generally, though, it seems that every story set on modern Earth is set on the real world, ish, which means last time's invasion doesn't count, because it'd change the world away from the one we know.

I don't know, in the Titanic Christmas episode I'm pretty sure they referenced both the Christmas invasion and the incident with the space minors crashing into Big Ben as being the reason London was abandoned on Christmas Eve. It's safe to say that, no matter what else, those two events where significant enough to be remembered (and have the use of the aforementioned Surface to Space anti-ship laser).

So it seems that either there's a lot of unexplained timmy wimmy stuff going on, or lazy writing is lazy. Given who's in charge right now, my money's on the later.

The Torchwoord/Harriet Jones arc were some of my favourite parts. It seemed like they were going somewhere for a while, even Jack Harkness's saying "The 21st century is when everything changes, and you gotta be ready", I think it was even in the intro to Torchwood, seemed like something big, completely different was going to happen with the frequent visits to Earth. Unfortunately it seems that the most of that was Torchwood, and it didn't seem to go any further (I didn't watch all of the 11th Doctor, so I could be mistaken, I didn't enjoy that series). And then they killed off most of Torchwood, killed off more in a miniseries, and I haven't started the last Torchwood miniseries, but I wouldn't be suprised if they introduced more members and then killed them off too.

It is pretty strange, all in all, that whether people, the government, or the military, are aware of the Doctor, or alien life, seems mostly to be up to the writer.

 

[JohnZ117]

In Smith's era, he asks Amy to explain daleks to Churchill, but she doesn't know about him, and he says that's very strange, and it looks like that'd be part of the arc plot, but wasn't.

Actually, it was part of the arc for that season. The cracks in time that were threatening to swallow the universe also caused those around them to forget things, as evidenced in many episodes.

They forgot things that were swallowed, I don't remember them forgetting anything that wasn't.

Due to long term exposure, Amelia must have been a special case.

 

[DalekJaas]

It all gets forgotten, except for when it suits a particular story. Something I HATE about Doctor Who, a few lines in a story to keep old ones relevant would be nice but it honestly just comes down to lazy writing and the writers not being willing to research the shows history. Like the gunfighters not being referenced in that cyborg cowboy ep in season 7. Kill The Moon (which I personally believe to be in the top 10 worst episodes of Doctor Who EVER) showed us that if a writer isnt willing to research basic, elementary school scientific principles, then they sure as hell aren't gonna give a damn about old episodes.


Like in the star whale ep when the date for the exodus from earth was changed for no reason. The 3rd Doctor serial already told us that humanity left Earth when it was devastated by a solar event in the year 10000 or something, then the star whale episode comes along and changes it to 4000 (? Can't remember what year it was in the ep) FOR NO REASON. Little examples like that are everywhere in the new series and I HATE IT!

I honestly think they should hire a fan so he/she could read over a story and be like "well the date for this is 12000, but a similar event was mentioned in a 6th Doctor story in the year 6000 so we should just change that for continuitys sake". Would that be so hard? The show has so much potential that is constantly squandered. The fact that we've had several stories in Coal Hill and we've had no mention of Ian Chesterson is irking me to no end, BRING HIM BACK WHILE THE ACTOR IS STILL ALIVE MOFFAT! He was the Doctor's first human companion for christ sake (that the actor is still alive), and coal hill is even where The Doctor hid the hand of Omega, so surely the Doctor has some memory of the place...

 

[Thaluikhain]

I honestly think they should hire a fan so he/she could read over a story and be like "well the date for this is 12000, but a similar event was mentioned in a 6th Doctor story in the year 6000 so we should just change that for continuitys sake". Would that be so hard?

They tried that in the 80s with Ian Levine...yeah, maybe not the best precedent.

More seriously, yes, there is no reason to do some vague research and change a few unimportant details of a show with obsessive fans nitpicking that sort of stuff.

 

[Zontar]

Snip

You know, it wouldn't even be that bad if they at least kept the post-return continuity straight (one could always hand wave the time war as changing all of history in the universe as fallout), but they can't even manage to keep it straight for a period of television that 1) is heavily viewed by fans old and new due to much greater ease in getting access to, and 2) still have a year to go before it reaches the same length as America's longest running sci-fi show.

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but, well, 'you always forget'... god dame it moffat. I'm done with the show if the season finally doesn't win me over.

 

[happyninja42]

But the regular people don't seem to. Despite the alien invasions and everything else that's generally weird going on, a lot of people are unreasonably skeptical about claims made of aliens. With how often an alien or monster has been responsible for some mayhem that was unable to be covered up, it's odd that an old man using a telescope to try and see aliens would be viewed as a nut when it's perfectly reasonable to try and spot something you know is out there. But at the same time there have been plenty of memory of aliens coming to Earth by the common man as well, what with London being almost deserted on Christmas due to the tendency of aliens showing up on that day in that place and being all alien while are aliening up the place.

That is because the common people in the Who-verse are idiots. This is actually a running joke for me and my wife in the show. In the show, when terrifying shit happens, the people of the UK, stand there like slack-jawed idiots, and just let themselves die. They're like those goats that if you spook them, they lock up their legs and fall over, totally helpless. Nevermind that actual human reactions are to run the fuck away!!, ooooh no, the Brits, stiff upper lip and all, just stand there and gawk as the *insert freakish monstrosity/terror of the week* steps on them, devours them, disintegrates them with a beam weapon, whatever. I mean seriously, in some of the episodes, the creature in the rubber suit is so obviously unable to do more than shuffle along at a snails pace, and the victims could easily run away from it, they just stand there and die.

So yeah, they're stupid, and it doesn't surprise me at all that they don't recall previous alien encounters, as they all have the mental capacity of a turnip.

Note: I love the show, and find it great fun, but the Brit civilians are total idiots. xD

 

[Netrigan]

Snip

You know, it wouldn't even be that bad if they at least kept the post-return continuity straight (one could always hand wave the time war as changing all of history in the universe as fallout), but they can't even manage to keep it straight for a period of television that 1) is heavily viewed by fans old and new due to much greater ease in getting access to, and 2) still have a year to go before it reaches the same length as America's longest running sci-fi show.

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but, well, 'you always forget'... god dame it moffat. I'm done with the show if the season finally doesn't win me over.

RTD didn't even try to keep it straight. Dalek (taking place in 2012) relies on no one knowing who the Daleks are... except it turns out the Daleks launched a well-remembered invasion right before said story would have taken place.

Torchwood and Sarah Jane don't line up well with Doctor Who despite all being created by Davies. Big, massive invasions are just forgotten about with everyone being surprised aliens exist on half a dozen occasions. A giant Cyberman terrorized Victorian London... and no one remembers. The President of the United States is murdered... and no biggie. The PM is killed in one story and goes mad in another... and no biggie.

Continuity has and forever shall be a joke on Doctor Who.

 

[Zontar]

The President of the United States is murdered... and no biggie.

Wait, didn't that not happen when the paradox machine was destroyed? Or is that referring to something other then the Master and his invasion with the End of Time humans (not to be confused with the invasion where he turned all of humanity into copies of himself)? Actually, with how often world leaders and politicians in general bit it in the Whoverse, it's probably in a situation like 24 where it happens so often it's only worth of a footnote and a passing mention on the 6o'clock news.