I'm going to tell you what you think

[Drake_Dercon]

What really irks me is when someone believes that seniority is the be-all, end-all epitome of knowledge. I have listened to self-proclaimed open-minded people hold steadfast to their beliefs as though they were a twelfth-century catholic bishop (perhaps that's a bit harsh, but those with open minds can be surprisingly inflexible). I have been told, all using the "I have more experience than you in this field logic" reasoning, that I'm an Atheist because I'm a young person and thus angry at society (which I strive in my daily life to disprove). I've been told that Atheism is wrong because goodwill can't be explained by science (which gives me huge reason to believe that misinformation is a powerful tool indeed), that I, as an Atheist will never amount to anything because I don't believe in a higher purpose (a previous long-winded post I made disproving that entirely) and that I must someday "come to grips with reality" and begin believing in a higher power if I am ever to be happy (Keep in mind that the last three examples were from the same conversation). This person was open-minded in that he didn't discriminate based on religion, as long as you had one.
I have also been told that my thoughts are without merit because they are questions rather than full-blown answers (answers within the questions were not paid any attention at the time), and, that due to the limited knowledge this person had of me, that I didn't spend enough time formulating my own thought and ideas, away from outside influence that may influence them (this includes people, music, books, television, computers, paintings as well as art and media in general), something I spend hours doing daily.

My point is that a general knowledge of certain circumstances is taken by a great deal of people to mean that they are always right in any situation where those circumstances apply (correct me if I'm wrong: younger adults are undervalued by older adults, adolescents are undervalued by adults and children are undervalued by everyone in their capacity for deep, original and wise thought by the logic of "you haven't lived as much as I have"). I personally believe that an nine-year-old elementary schoolchild can present thoughts of equal and sometimes greater merit to those of a ninety-year-old who lived through the second world war, simply because their experiences differ. A nine-year-old has simply seen a different world from an aging war vet. Even identical circumstances can produce different ideas based on context. A common person sees war differently than a soldier, two people can have different opinions on what constitutes sexism, simply based on how they were raised, the state of the economy and its effects are taken in differently by a businessperson than by someone who's homeless and destitute. Those may have been drastic examples, but society at least recognizes them and respects that they can all allow for two different, equally valuable opinions. So, why is seniority judged over value, especially in younger people?
I'm going to reply to as many as possible

The purpose of this thread: To share your opinions on the issue and (hopefully) not to be judged. Hopefully to provoke some fair and meaningful discussion.

Addition: just to give a perspective on the whole thing, kudos if you can guess my age by reading this (not many, it's fairly obvious to me, but then again, I am me). I'll give the answer if this thread exceeds one page in length.

 

[Ishamel]

Saw a child and his father going down the street once.
Child stops on the street.
'Dad! Dad!'
'What? Come on, Tommy.'
'Dad dad dad!'
'What?'
'Dad!'
'WHAT'
'Leaf!'

That child was more excited by a leaf than anything I could ever remember being excited by, ever. And he wanted to share.

Your points about atheism are unrelated to your wider point about respecting your juniors. Sounds like the guy you know is a prick.

 

[Lyx]

I think your problem is that you still believe in the premises of the "game": That it is about differences in age and education.

It isn't. The fallacy of "truth by tradition/maturity" (it's better because it's old/tested/mature) is applied just as often, as the fallacy of "truth by novelty" (it's better because it's new/young/fresh/progressive).

If you want to understand what's going on, then don't take premises of such setups for granted - especially not if the premises follow a dualistic pattern.

P.S.: The "absolutism/egalitism" dichotomy is another such falacious setup.

 

[Scolar Visari]

Saw a child and his father going down the street once.
Child stops on the street.
'Dad! Dad!'
'What? Come on, Tommy.'
'Dad dad dad!'
'What?'
'Dad!'
'WHAT'
'Leaf!'

That child was more excited by a leaf than anything I could ever remember being excited by, ever. And he wanted to share.

Your points about atheism are unrelated to your wider point about respecting your juniors. Sounds like the guy you know is a prick.

Must of been a pretty crazy leaf.

Anyway OP, I'm having a bit of difficulty following your train of thought. Of course age doesn't automatically make you a better person, but it often does impart lessons.

 

[NeedAUserName]

I didn't bother reading the original post, the original poster only has 25 posts...

Anyway, I think truth comes from experience, so it is wise to listen to more experienced people, but at the same time you have to learn some things for yourself, so basically its a precarious juggling act of wisdom with age/experience and getting out their and making your own mistakes.

 

[SadisticPretzel]

People of religion are innately biased against Atheists because their places of worship and the media put you guys out there as Teh Big Ebulz trying to destroy their rights to believe in their god. Really, from all evidence I've been presented, it's the other way around, but...Whatever.

All I can really say to your conundrum is that there is more than the novelty factor to being a Rebel. People don't like or misunderstand why you think the way you do? Keep on truckin' and prove them wrong. Ultimately, you'll be the better one in the end.

Yeah, I know that advice doesn't offer much in the way of temporary relief from the annoyance, but short of punching them in the face until they get you, there's not much you CAN do. And I don't want to offer you advice that would ultimately plop you in jail.

As to your age, I'd say late teens to early 20s.

 

[theSovietConnection]

There are two groups I have problems with hearing this from, though in reality they are essentially just one group, now that I think about it. First off, developer fanboys drive me up the wall, because they try to argue that subjective enjoyment is objective fact. The other group that drive me up the wall are the religiously antitheistic, mostly because they don't realise how hypocritical they often are.

 

[Drake_Dercon]

*snip*

Not a prick, but fairly closed-minded. My point sort of evolved over the course of writing (hopefully I never contradicted myself), but that was largely to show that he would, simply because he believed he had more experience, was correct by default. We're always learning, sometimes from the strangest of sources and to deny that knowledge can be gleaned from a less experienced source is simply foolhardy.

*snip*

If I'm correct in my interpretation, that's a response to yours, too, though your point was a bit obscure. I was speaking, largely, about the capacity for deep (and sometimes philosophical) thought more so than anything else, although that story about the kid and the leaf was quite an amazing example. Nature is great, and it's one of humanity's greatest flaws that the everyday world loses its novelty over time.

*snip*.

Militant atheists piss everyone off. I was, with that statement, trying to show his perceived superiority, not any religious bias. Whatever you want to believe is fine by me, but my religious conclusions are just as sacred as anyone else's.

 

[SimuLord]

Atheism is spiritually, intellectually, and morally unsustainable. Not to side with the old guy, but come back when you've had more life experience---when you get to Penn Jillette's age or Richard Dawkins' age or Christopher Hitchens' age and still insist on the purity of atheism...well, I'll still think you're spiritually empty and morally lacking but I will at least bow to the benefit of your experience guiding your opinions.

 

[Alon Shechter]

Atheism is spiritually, intellectually, and morally unsustainable. Not to side with the old guy, but come back when you've had more life experience---when you get to Penn Jillette's age or Richard Dawkins' age or Christopher Hitchens' age and still insist on the purity of atheism...well, I'll still think you're spiritually empty and morally lacking but I will at least bow to the benefit of your experience guiding your opinions.

But what does experience have to do with Atheism?
Please, someone explain to me.
What on earth does a lack of belief in any religion have to do with life experience?
Experience does not always grant intelligence or wisdom. sometimes it does the opposite, if you misunderstand it.

 

[Drake_Dercon]

Atheism is spiritually, intellectually, and morally unsustainable. Not to side with the old guy, but come back when you've had more life experience---when you get to Penn Jillette's age or Richard Dawkins' age or Christopher Hitchens' age and still insist on the purity of atheism...well, I'll still think you're spiritually empty and morally lacking but I will at least bow to the benefit of your experience guiding your opinions.

Please, don't turn this into a religious debate. If you want to talk who's beliefs are better, fine, I'll do that, but not here. This thread is about free speech and judgement of said speech, not who's religion is better and I'm afraid that's been misunderstood. If you want to start a religious discussion, there's a better forum. PM me, start a new thread... hell, I'll start a new thread if that's what you want, but this is simply the wrong place for that.

 

[astrav1]

Sounds like you need to read some Kant.

 

[kikon9]

The thing is, that, no matter how "open minded" you were yesterday. There will be a more open "open minded" in about a week.

The ideal, of course, is that people just stop giving a shit what other people believe and focus on what they believe. For instance, I don't actively criticize my religious friends any more than jokingly, just as they don't make fun of my beliefs more than jokingly.