I'm in love with For Honor!!

[Nature Guardian]

is not impossibly difficult.

It's just a bit more challenging than most games, which is fine.

"A bit more challenging"?

Screw that game, I couldn't get past THE FIRST ENEMY. For me, that is NOT a well-programmed videogame.

But I'm not calling it a shit game. It's not badly programmed: it just really isn't my thing.

I understand it just fine. It's not a complicated game. The controls are just shit.

Which is why you should really stop saying the controls are shit. Unresponsible, poorly thought-out controls are shit.

Difficult controls are not shit.

For Honor's controls are what keeps me playing. They are essentially the key element of the game, much like in any fighting game.

How much have you played the game?

I've been playing for hours now, as I play it nearly daily, since release day.

I'm betting you've played it for 30 minutes, got owned because you didn't master the controls, and left the game. Much like me with Demon's Souls.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Controls that are designed to be hard to learn are shitty controls designed by a shitty designer.

That's like saying that an impossibly difficult game that is designed to be frustrating is a shitty game designed by a shitty designer. Because a videogame should be fun, not frustrating.

If the controls are intentionally shitty, that's bad design, period. The hard part in most fighting games is the twofold learning of combos and then mastering the speed and tempo at which to execute said combos. The first is a fairly basic memory task, the second an often daunting coordination and dexterity challenge. The controls are easy to learn and use, most people can pull off the basic 3-strike combos at the heart of most fighting games within minutes of first playing, but mastering them is hard. This idea of easy to learn, hard to master is the core of pretty much all fighting games (and many other types of games).

For Honor is not that. For Honor is just plagued by input lag, poor input detection and a control system that's obtrusive and unresponsive. I prestiged with the Onabushi in both betas (averaging some 2,5:1 in KDR, mainly Duel and Brawl), and the biggest problem I had was always that the controls reacted much more slowly then I did, which created timing problems and got me killed. To learn the controls of For Honor means coming to grips with how incredibly sluggish and restricting they are.

The actual combos themselves are few and fairly easy to learn by rote, and almost all of them are very easy to pull off in practice mode when no one's hitting back. It becomes much harder when the animation from your movement blocks your input for a parry, which means that you mistime your counter-attack, instead winding up a slower attack and get punished with a guard break. Not through any fault of your own, but because the games controls absolutely will not let you have full control over your character and the game itself does a very shitty job of telling you when you are allowed input and when you ain't.

The controls in For Honor are atrocious, especially for a fighting game. I can see why people forgive them, because the game itself can be fairly engaging, but that's no excuse for how bad they are.

 

[Nature Guardian]

Controls that are designed to be hard to learn are shitty controls designed by a shitty designer.

That's like saying that an impossibly difficult game that is designed to be frustrating is a shitty game designed by a shitty designer. Because a videogame should be fun, not frustrating.

If the controls are intentionally shitty, that's bad design, period. The hard part in most fighting games is the twofold learning of combos and then mastering the speed and tempo at which to execute said combos. The first is a fairly basic memory task, the second an often daunting coordination and dexterity challenge. The controls are easy to learn and use, most people can pull off the basic 3-strike combos at the heart of most fighting games within minutes of first playing, but mastering them is hard. This idea of easy to learn, hard to master is the core of pretty much all fighting games (and many other types of games).

For Honor is not that. For Honor is just plagued by input lag, poor input detection and a control system that's obtrusive and unresponsive. I prestiged with the Onabushi in both betas (averaging some 2,5:1 in KDR, mainly Duel and Brawl), and the biggest problem I had was always that the controls reacted much more slowly then I did, which created timing problems and got me killed. To learn the controls of For Honor means coming to grips with how incredibly sluggish and restricting they are.

The actual combos themselves are few and fairly easy to learn by rote, and almost all of them are very easy to pull off in practice mode when no one's hitting back. It becomes much harder when the animation from your movement blocks your input for a parry, which means that you mistime your counter-attack, instead winding up a slower attack and get punished with a guard break. Not through any fault of your own, but because the games controls absolutely will not let you have full control over your character and the game itself does a very shitty job of telling you when you are allowed input and when you ain't.

The controls in For Honor are atrocious, especially for a fighting game. I can see why people forgive them, because the game itself can be fairly engaging, but that's no excuse for how bad they are.

If the controls are so bad, how come my friend (who's a very passionate fighting game player) handles me and most of our opponents, everytime?

If there is input lag, it shouldn't happen only when -I- try to defend myself.

It's not about input lag.

It's just very difficult.

"Every character has a short, easy to memorize moveset" is the kind of comment by someone who still hasn't figured out how For Honor works and what mechanics it has.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

If the controls are so bad, how come my friend (who's a very passionate fighting game player) handles me and most of our opponents, everytime?

Because bad controls do not invalidate skill, they make it harder for everyone. A good player will also learn how to mitigate or exploit the bad controls for maximum effect.

If there is input lag, it shouldn't happen only when -I- try to defend myself.

Sure. Except it only frustrates me when it happens to me. I am quite certain it happened a lot to people I played against to, since the people I played with also complained a lot about it.

"Every character has a short, easy to memorize moveset" is the kind of comment by someone who still hasn't figured out how For Honor works and what mechanics it has.

Oh really? Because if you look at this [https://rankedboost.com/for-honor/nobushi/] for example, you can clearly see that the Onabushi has 12 discrete moves, of which one is a parry and one a stance. Compare to this [https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/927089-soulcalibur-iii/faqs/40127] which suggests that Xianghua in Soul Calibur 3 has over 80(!) different moves.

So don't give me that ad hominem shit. I put down 30 hours over two weekends playing For Honor, almost exclusively using the Onabushi. For Honor is hard in the sense that the meta constantly pits you against a new challenge. You can not fight a Kensei like you would a Warden and neither is handled like a Berserker or Peacekeeper, not to mention the Warlord or Conqueror. The actual mastery in For Honor comes from knowing how to engage the different classes to maximize your own advantage and minimize theirs.

That's hard, sure, but it is a whole different kind of hard and it does nothing to address my criticism that the controls are unmitigated shit, which actually makes it harder to master For Honor. Not because there's an additional layer to master, but because the game actively hobbles you from its poor handling.

 

[Nature Guardian]

If the controls are so bad, how come my friend (who's a very passionate fighting game player) handles me and most of our opponents, everytime?

Because bad controls do not invalidate skill, they make it harder for everyone. A good player will also learn how to mitigate or exploit the bad controls for maximum effect.

If there is input lag, it shouldn't happen only when -I- try to defend myself.

Sure. Except it only frustrates me when it happens to me. I am quite certain it happened a lot to people I played against to, since the people I played with also complained a lot about it.

"Every character has a short, easy to memorize moveset" is the kind of comment by someone who still hasn't figured out how For Honor works and what mechanics it has.

Oh really? Because if you look at this [https://rankedboost.com/for-honor/nobushi/] for example, you can clearly see that the Onabushi has 12 discrete moves, of which one is a parry and one a stance. Compare to this [https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/927089-soulcalibur-iii/faqs/40127] which suggests that Xianghua in Soul Calibur 3 has over 80(!) different moves.

So don't give me that ad hominem shit. I put down 30 hours over two weekends playing For Honor, almost exclusively using the Onabushi. For Honor is hard in the sense that the meta constantly pits you against a new challenge. You can not fight a Kensei like you would a Warden and neither is handled like a Berserker or Peacekeeper, not to mention the Warlord or Conqueror. The actual mastery in For Honor comes from knowing how to engage the different classes to maximize your own advantage and minimize theirs.

That's hard, sure, but it is a whole different kind of hard and it does nothing to address my criticism that the controls are unmitigated shit, which actually makes it harder to master For Honor. Not because there's an additional layer to master, but because the game actively hobbles you from its poor handling.

I think I see how this is going.


ME: "For Honor's controls are good, and here's why"

YOU: "For Honor's controls are bad, and here's why"

ME: "For Honor's controls are good, and here's why"

YOU: "For Honor's controls are bad, and here's why"

ME: "For Honor's controls are good, and here's why"

YOU: "For Honor's controls are bad, and here's why"

REPEAT AD INFINITUM


So yeah, I see no point in going back and forth with this.