I'm not entirely convinced that minorities exist.

[JDLY]

Judaism is a religion, not a race. One cannot be "part Jewish" anymore than they can be "part Christian" or "part Muslim.".

Isn't it both, though? There are people who identify as 'Jewish' despite having different religion, or being atheist.

Ok, after a bit of searching here's what I've come up with.

A person is obviously Jewish if they follow the Jewish faith.

Whether or not a person with, say, one Jewish parent and one non-Jewish parent (or many other similar situations) is considered Jewish has been debated for quite some time. Seemingly stemming from the fact that Judaism has, to some extent, it's own definitive culture, much like different races have different cultures.

In my opinion, however, Judaism is a religion, not a race. If both of someone's parents are Jewish, but they have chosen to be atheist, then they are not Jewish, not even part Jewish. Even if they were Jewish when they were very young and later in life became an atheist, they are no longer Jewish. However, they can sing from the mountain tops that they have Jewish ancestry, as that is completely true.

In short (and in my opinion), you are Jewish if you follow the Jewish faith, if you don't, then you're not Jewish, but feel free to state whether or not you have Jewish ancestors.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

eh, people keep telling me I'm lucky to be a straight white dude because the most powerful men in our socety are straight and white.

now I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure those guys don't give a fuck about my straight, white man-ass.

 

[Lieju]

In my opinion, however, Judaism is a religion, not a race. If both of someone's parents are Jewish, but they have chosen to be atheist, then they are not Jewish, not even part Jewish. .

There are different opinions amongst Jews on this, but generally if your mother is a Jew, you can be considered Jewish. You generally can't really convert to Judaism, or at least it's very tricky, and many Jews would not accept you as really Jewish.

Judaism isn't the same kind of religion something like Christianity or Islam are, it's a tribal religion and something you're born into, they do not seek converts.
Religious aspects are a part of it, but not everything.

From http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.

 

[OniaPL]

The dream is dead
Our land is gone
There?s a hole in my heart
And I can?t go on

There are too many minorities (minorities)
At my water park (my water park)
This was our land, our dream (our dream)
and they?ve taken it all away

They just keep coming and coming (minorities)
I tried to go and tell the police
But even the authorities
Are minorities (are minorities)
At my water park

 

[JDLY]

In my opinion, however, Judaism is a religion, not a race. If both of someone's parents are Jewish, but they have chosen to be atheist, then they are not Jewish, not even part Jewish. .

There are different opinions amongst Jews on this, but generally if your mother is a Jew, you can be considered Jewish. You generally can't really convert to Judaism, or at least it's very tricky, and many Jews would not accept you as really Jewish.

Judaism isn't the same kind of religion something like Christianity or Islam are, it's a tribal religion and something you're born into, they do not seek converts.
Religious aspects are a part of it, but not everything.

From http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.

Ah, interesting. Well thanks for the information, it certainly makes more sense now why some people identify themselves as "part Jewish" or things like that.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I see a few people saying that minorities as a concept only serve to divide humanity. And in some cases that is unfortunately true, but in most, it isn't. Minorities as a concept help preserve culture and allow a larger voice to groups so often silenced. Plus, it is foolish to believe that minorities are affected only in words as well. Law enforcement is downright villainous towards black/latino people, with an absurd amount of black men ending up in prison in their lifetimes. Similarly, transsexual people are often denied medical service because of who they are, sometimes even at the scenes of accidents, where they are left to die because the EMS workers refuse to help them.

So minorities do exist and are a valid concept, and while they can create the Us vs. Them idea, in some cases, they are required to even let oppressed people speak. After all, who is going to understand what it's like to be transgender if they are not so? And should those people who cannot understand be the ones who get to decide how trans people are treated? Probably not.

I disagree, somewhat.

Minorities don't form because of oppression, they have to be there before it. You can't oppress black/gay/transgender people before deciding that "they" aren't like "us", and noticing that they don't have as much power.

The division is already there, it's all very well for certain types to say "we're all just human", but it's doesn't mean that others are treated as if they aren't.

More or less I agree with what you say, but I think the distinction is important.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Ok, after a bit of searching here's what I've come up with.

A person is obviously Jewish if they follow the Jewish faith.

Whether or not a person with, say, one Jewish parent and one non-Jewish parent (or many other similar situations) is considered Jewish has been debated for quite some time. Seemingly stemming from the fact that Judaism has, to some extent, it's own definitive culture, much like different races have different cultures.

In my opinion, however, Judaism is a religion, not a race. If both of someone's parents are Jewish, but they have chosen to be atheist, then they are not Jewish, not even part Jewish. Even if they were Jewish when they were very young and later in life became an atheist, they are no longer Jewish. However, they can sing from the mountain tops that they have Jewish ancestry, as that is completely true.

In short (and in my opinion), you are Jewish if you follow the Jewish faith, if you don't, then you're not Jewish, but feel free to state whether or not you have Jewish ancestors.

Legally speaking, Judaism has been considered a racial or ethnic quality for quite some time due to the obvious reason that it allows Jewish people to benefit from the protection of racial anti-discrimination laws, which are generally more vigorous than religious anti-discrimination laws.

On the OP: yes, tribalism is bad. No, I don't think we'll ever get rid of it. For one thing, when you apply tribalism on a large scale it becomes "national identity," and a lot of people get quite huffy about trying to remove someone's national identity.

 

[Olas]

I believe this is relevant:


And he's right... with a lot of freedom of movement, these days compared to years past, mixed race people are only going to increase in proportion to everyone else. Well, Russell says it better than me...

I find his notion of everyone someday becoming one big mixed race a little depressing to be honest. It's like there won't be any diversity anymore, everyone will just look the same. Sure there won't be any racism, but it feels like it would be creepy having crowds of nearly identical people everywhere you look.

The only way Star Trek will ever happen is if people only marry into their own race.

 

[Darken12]

I get waaaay more privileges and benefits from identifying as a Hispanic than I ever did as a Caucasian. (Yes, I'm aware that Caucasian isn't an ethnicity, but they ask 'White (Non-Hispanic)' on most forms)

Those "privileges" are there to counterbalance the innate ethnocentricity/racism/sexism and so on in society. If they didn't exist, you would only get a job or education for "looking" white, while if you looked like the stereotype of your ethnicity/race, you would get underpaid jobs, your education would be appalling, and you would be on the receiving end of ethnic/racist violence. And don't forget, if you're a white cis straight male, you might have a shot at being part of the upper class (while if you don't fit the bill, your odds plummet to near zero).

As for whether they exist or not, majority/minority means exclusively numbers, which tends to be a bit disingenuous in terms of gender (and sometimes even in terms of race or ethnicity), which is why I prefer the term "marginalised groups". You don't have to be a minority to be marginalised.

 

[bananafishtoday]

You're Hispanic, but you pass as white. This confers upon you all the benefits that white people receive in society. See also: this essay [http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html].

"Minority" isn't really the best word as, yeah, eg women are a slight majority but are still an oppressed group. Whites held (and prolly still hold, but I don't know enough about the country to make a definitive statement) incredible power in South Africa despite being a small minority of the population.

Wrt race specifically, yeah, it's socially constructed bullshit. But it's not "a pointless distinction to create an arbitrary 'us vs them' mentality in the group that identifies with said minority." These groups are still underprivileged by general (ie white) society, and the identification results from that more than anything else.

 

[Queen Michael]

While we're on the subject anyway:

I find his notion of everyone someday becoming one big mixed race a little depressing to be honest. It's like there won't be any diversity anymore, everyone will just look the same. Sure there won't be any racism, but it feels like it would be creepy having crowds of nearly identical people everywhere you look.

The only way Star Trek will ever happen is if people only marry into their own race.

Are you talking about the song I posted?

 

[Olas]

quote]
Are you talking about the song I posted?

No. Sorry, My bad. I meant to quote the guy 2 posts above you. Sorry bout the confusion.

 

[Lucem712]

I think it's just natural for humans to try and affix labels to things, even if those things happen to be other humans.

I'm Mexican American, myself. 1st generation on my father's side. I live in a pretty densely Hispanic part of the country (white 50%, Mexican/Hispanic/Latino 47%, 3% other), so I've never really faced discrimination or feeling like a minority. Or at least, not that I've noticed. I'm sure there are people who see my darker skin and assume I don't know English or am an illegal *shrugs*. Though, I could never pass as white, so I don't know if the grass is greener on the other side.

 

[corneth]

Edit: To clarify further, I'm not saying that I don't believe minorities exist so much as it's a pointless distinction to create an arbitrary 'us vs them' mentality in the group that identifies with said minority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory


Checkmate.

Maybe in Whitetown Gatedville there is no racism and everyone is one gigantic happy amorphous blob of post-racial post-sexual post-prejudice harmony, but in 99.9% of the world that isn't the case. To answer the "it's only the minorities who make the problem grrr" argument, I must direct you towards this: http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0309web_1.pdf.

The previous is a study showing indisputably that racial minorities are disproportionately arrested for drug crimes(up to 11.3X as likely compared to whites) despite drug use rates being roughly the same across all racial groups (ie. Black people make up 13% of the U.S. Population, as well as 13% of all drug users). There is no defense you can possibly have against that. We do not, as you seem to believe, live in a post-discrimination world, especially not when 41 U.S. states don't allow gay marriages.

 

[dmase]

From what I remember from Sociology is that "Minority/Majority" doesn't refer to sheer amount, but rather something along the lines of who has the most societal control.

So, in America "straight white male" is a majority, not because there's so many of them, but because most people in power are straight white males. (It might not be now, just using an example)

I'm not even sure that discredits my spiel. Life was pretty rough until I started putting 'Hispanic' on all my forms. For example...couldn't get any scholarships, couldn't get a job despite going door to door in shopping plazas every other day for three years straight, etc etc. But the moment I started putting down my ethnicity? Two callbacks on the first day, then a third a week later. Currently, the government is paying the entirety of my tuition and then some. My taxes went down too, although I'm not sure if that was due to listing myself as Hispanic or taxes just went down.

I get waaaay more privileges and benefits from identifying as a Hispanic than I ever did as a Caucasian. (Yes, I'm aware that Caucasian isn't an ethnicity, but they ask 'White (Non-Hispanic)' on most forms)

There is no way your taxes went down because your hispanic, if there was it would be the most divisive controversy in any country.

I'm completely white, not even any native american and while I get your point I disagree that there is all benefit with being minority. Weird right? the straight white male is saying that affirmative action actually has a purpose.

First if minorities where actually getting severe benefits from affirmative action they would have an unemployment rate in america equivalent to white males, they don't. Also they'd have a much closer to the white male income, they aren't. If it affirmative action really mattered the proportion of minority graduates from college and high school would be population appropriate. None of these things are true, despite the severe benefit of affirmative action that some would lead you to believe.

And I really do have a vested interest in not having affirmative action. RIght now I'm signing up for internship and I always question whether I should fill out the optional race/sex section. My name is Devon, if someone wanted to guess my gender or race they are just as likely to say black or female.

Anyways, historically minorities are raised in a culture that doesn't put an emphasis on the future or education. They historically poorer, are more likely to have family members in jails or gangs. This is something that has happened because of history and our history of treating races and genders a certain way. Now why haven't black people or hispanics been able to catch up with the curve completely, maybe it's because there hasn't been enough time given or maybe it's because poverty begets poverty. It's a cycle that doesn't easily end, I can see that looking at my own family who aren't poor but as far as life choices go every generation there is a round of bad ones made despite ample opportunity. Affirmative action i feel is a way to break that cycle.

Just to add I don't think affirmative action is applied correctly, it should really be applied to low income people entirely and get rid of the race based decisions. The ones getting the scholarships and internships are most likely going to be middle class that have already had ample opportunities in their life not someone who had a shitty neighborhood, school, and future without additional opportunities.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Edit: To clarify further, I'm not saying that I don't believe minorities exist so much as it's a pointless distinction to create an arbitrary 'us vs them' mentality in the group that identifies with said minority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory


Checkmate.

Maybe in Whitetown Gatedville there is no racism and everyone is one gigantic happy amorphous blob of post-racial post-sexual post-prejudice harmony, but in 99.9% of the world that isn't the case. To answer the "it's only the minorities who make the problem grrr" argument, I must direct you towards this: http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0309web_1.pdf.

The previous is a study showing indisputably that racial minorities are disproportionately arrested for drug crimes(up to 11.3X as likely compared to whites) despite drug use rates being roughly the same across all racial groups (ie. Black people make up 13% of the U.S. Population, as well as 13% of all drug users). There is no defense you can possibly have against that. We do not, as you seem to believe, live in a post-discrimination world, especially not when 41 U.S. states don't allow gay marriages.

I don't think you quite understood his point.

 

[Ryan Minns]

I also don't believe in minorities! In the end we all get a bonus feat and an extra skill point per level!

On a serious note though this has sparked some rather interesting opinions, sadly I as of yet don't have one for this thread!

 

[Thaluikhain]

Edit: To clarify further, I'm not saying that I don't believe minorities exist so much as it's a pointless distinction to create an arbitrary 'us vs them' mentality in the group that identifies with said minority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory


Checkmate.

Maybe in Whitetown Gatedville there is no racism and everyone is one gigantic happy amorphous blob of post-racial post-sexual post-prejudice harmony, but in 99.9% of the world that isn't the case. To answer the "it's only the minorities who make the problem grrr" argument, I must direct you towards this: http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0309web_1.pdf.

The previous is a study showing indisputably that racial minorities are disproportionately arrested for drug crimes(up to 11.3X as likely compared to whites) despite drug use rates being roughly the same across all racial groups (ie. Black people make up 13% of the U.S. Population, as well as 13% of all drug users). There is no defense you can possibly have against that. We do not, as you seem to believe, live in a post-discrimination world, especially not when 41 U.S. states don't allow gay marriages.

I don't think you quite understood his point.

I don't think you quite understood his or hers, that minorities aren't the ones that create the "us and them" divisions.