I'm not worried about Mass Effect 3 :)

[Internet Kraken]

-snip-

-snip-

Both of you are severly undrestimating the value of the Citadel. Their entire plan rests on it. They need it. This was made clear in Mass Effect; the reason Reaper invasions have succeeded was because they had the Citadel. The Citadel is the greatest asset any faction could hoope to control. It is the heart of the relay system; you can't go to most places without going through it. It has all the data on all the races. It's the perfect trap set up by the Reapers, and why they're suddenly abandoning it in favor of attacking Earth makes no sense.

You say that the Citadel is to well fortified? That doesn't make any sense since they're going to have to go through it eventually. It's not like they can just ignore the Citadel. They're going to need to take control of it regardless of what their current plan in. By attacking Earth, all they are doing is broadcasting to the galaxy that they are here. So when they do go through the Citadel, and they will have to, whatever defenses it had before are now going to be far stronger. This is a stupid plan. The Reapers are being stupid. If they're making such an idiotic move I can't find them threatening as villains. They're not even making use of the system they spent so much time preparing!

Even if their first plan failed, that still doesn't change the fact that the Citadel is the single most important asset to the success of their plan. By not attacking it first they're giving the other species time to band together, which is exactly what is happening. If the Reaper fleet isn't powerful enough to take out the Citadel now, then their plan is doomed to fail anyways.

Their best shot at a successful invasion this time would be to work in reverse - target the homeworlds of each of the Citadel races first to weaken them and then work inwards.

You need access to the relay network to reach the homeworlds. The heart of the relay network is the Citadel. So in order to reach these homeworld they would be going through the Citadel. So unless they take control of the Citadel that plan won't work at all.

 

[AngryBritishAce]

@vdeity
Now that wasn't very polite, was it? This is what I'm talking about. You need to look towards the future with a smile. And by the way, there is nothing you can say to prove I am stupid, so that insult did nothing to hurt me. As quoted from "to kill a mockingbird:" 'it's never an insult to be called what someone thinks is a bad name. It just shows you how poor that person is, it doesn't hurt you.'

I was, in fact, trying to help you. The song may be funny, but it's message is clear. You need to look brightly towards things. Not once in any of your posts thus far have shown any liking of Mass Effect in general. Now yes ther are good and bad point's, I cannot argue. But if you think something is terrible, it is so. But if you think it is good, then it is good. It's your own mind that plays tricks on how you look at things.

Now I'm not saying love everything, but at least try to look at good in everything and make sure to be a positive person. Look what being grumpy has given you so far. You have been suspended for 3 days. Now if you were nice once in a while that would of never happened. It may seem small, but in the grand sceme of things if you don't cheer up then you'll be a grumpy for ever.

 

[Zaik]

Someone explain to me how the Reapers got to Earth and why they are even invading it in the first place. Earth is deep within the Mass Effect relay system. In order to reach it, you have to go through a bunch of other relays which come from the Citadel. So if the Reapers are attacking Earth, that means they went past the Citadel and nobody cared. I'm not sure how that works out.

But wait, why are they even attacking Earth? Earth isn't of strategic value. Sure it may be the human species stronghold, but attacking it first just means you give the other species ample time to realize what they are doing and gang up on the Reapers. Which is exactly what Shepard is making happen. What happened to attacking the Citadel? They had to go past it to reach Earth, so why didn't they fly in there take control like they normally do? How does taking over earth and broadcasting their presence to the entire galaxy help them at all?

I'm so confused

They don't have to go by the citadel, they only needed to hit a relay waaaaay over in Batarian space to get there, but Shepard blew it up in Arrival with a giant rocket powered meteor.

They still made it to where that relay was, and had to go back to just traveling normally to get to Earth, which looked to be the closest population center to where all of that went on.

 

[Internet Kraken]

They don't have to go by the citadel, they only needed to hit a relay waaaaay over in Batarian space to get there, but Shepard blew it up in Arrival with a giant rocket powered meteor.

They still made it to where that relay was, and had to go back to just traveling normally to get to Earth, which looked to be the closest population center to where all of that went on.

Oh, I didn't know that. I just love it when Bioware puts major plot points in DLC for games that most people won't be replaying upon the time the DLC is released. Still, that plan doesn't make any sense. Even if the did have a relay leading to Earth there's no point in attacking it first when all you're doing is broadcasting your presence to the entire galaxy.

 

[scorptatious]

Still confused?

Yes, because there's absolutely no logical reason to attack Earth first. I can understand being interested in the human species, but that doesn't mean they have to attack them first. The reason the previous Reaper invasions succeeded was becuase they always took control of the Citadel. The Citadel is what binds all the species of the galaxy together. Without it, they can't reach other, communicate with each other, or do anything else that would require the use of the relay system. By taking control of this, the Reapers ensure that any resistance will be disorganized and confused.

By attacking Earth there making their presence known without doing any of the above. The other species are perfectly capable of forming a retaliation now that they know the Reapers are here. Which is exactly what is happening. Let's just make a list of the effects of both plans;

Attacking the Citadel
-Disrupt communications between species
-Isolate every major system from one another
-Prevent formation of a powerful multi-species retaliation force
-Complete control of the relay network
-More information than they could ever need about each species

Attacking Earth
-Make presence known across the galaxy
-Provoke unified attack from other species
-Make other species aware of danger causing them to fortify their defenses
-Harbinger gets to satisfy his creepy human fetish

Basically, the benefit for plan A are massive compared to plan B. I just don't get why the Reapers would make such a poor decision, unless Harbinger is really stupid and letting his lust for a human Reaper cloud his judgment. But that wouldn't make him a very threatening villain.

Wouldn't Shepard and the others predict that the Reapers would try that again? Seeing as how they found out how the Reapers normally entered the galaxy in ME1, they'd probably do what they did before and stop them from entering through the Citadel. Which would just be rehashing ME1's plot.

Of course I have yet to play the new DLC for ME2, so I may be missing something.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Wouldn't Shepard and the others predict that the Reapers would try that again? Seeing as how they found out how the Reapers normally entered the galaxy in ME1, they'd probably do what they did before and stop them from entering through the Citadel. Which would just be rehashing ME1's plot.

Of course I have yet to play the new DLC for ME2, so I may be missing something.

Of course the Reapers original plan of using the Citadel to warp in their entire fleet won't work at this point. That plan required the keepers or someone handing over the Citadel controls to a Reaper, both of which are no longer an option. However, the Citadel is still essential to purging the galaxy. By taking control of it they can isolate entire systems at will, preventing a proper retaliation from forming. This is the reason why the Reapers have always won in the past. The Citadel gives them complete control over the mass relay network. What they should be doing is rushing to the Citadel as quickly as possible in an attempt to overwhelm it before the other species can form a proper defense. By attacking Earth, they're just exposing themselves early on for what appears to be no gain.

However, thinking about this more there might be a logical reason for this; it was stated in Mass Effect 2 that the majority of the ships guarding the Citadel belong to the Alliance, as the other species are still recovering from their losses. If the Reapers send a small force to attack Earth, the alliance may withdraw from the Citadel to defend their home. Thus allowing the bulk of the Reaper fleet to rush the Citadel with grealtly reduced opposition. I still think just attacking the Citadel outright would be far less risky though.

 

[Nebraskaslim]

I haven't seen anything that says they are only attacking Earth. They could be atacking the Citadel simultaniously Or several planets even. All we know is that shepard stopped them from coming in the front door and essentially locked it, and then caved in the backdoor making it an unusable option. Now they are pissed that things aren't going exactly to plan and are modifying it slightly to make sure they take him out of the equation. Tho to be honest they should wait 100 or 200 years till anyone who remembers sovereign is dead then try again.

 

[JasonKaotic]

It's not that I'm not looking forward to Mass Effect 3, or that I think it'll be bad, I'm just a bit pessimistic about it. I'd probably feel different if I looked at the spoiler, but I don't want to risk spoiling the game at all. It's only because of them saying they'll be changing it to make it appeal to more people. This could mean changes to parts of Mass Effect that I like. In fact when people say that it usually is. But I'm going to play the game before I judge it.
(I really want to know how the hell we're going to stop the Reapers, though)

 

[AngryBritishAce]

It's not that I'm not looking forward to Mass Effect 3, or that I think it'll be bad, I'm just a bit pessimistic about it. I'd probably feel different if I looked at the spoiler, but I don't want to risk spoiling the game at all. It's only because of them saying they'll be changing it to make it appeal to more people. This could mean changes to parts of Mass Effect that I like. In fact when people say that it usually is. But I'm going to play the game before I judge it.
(I really want to know how the hell we're going to stop the Reapers, though)

Well as I've said, Weapon Mods are back and there's a much bigger skill tree than in ME2 (not sure about the first though) so it should be fine.
I have the image of the DA2 skill tree with multiple branches coming off each other but it might not be like that

 

[cthulhumythos]

No Tali? =(

Tali's in. She was confirmed as a party member in either Playstation 3 Magazine or PC Gamer UK, the June 2011 issue.

Good, know if they would only confirm Legion.

It's been confirmed

like as a squadmate or just in the game?

i need to know, my triple engineer team beckons.

 

[AngryBritishAce]

No Tali? =(

Tali's in. She was confirmed as a party member in either Playstation 3 Magazine or PC Gamer UK, the June 2011 issue.

Good, know if they would only confirm Legion.

It's been confirmed

like as a squadmate or just in the game?

i need to know, my triple engineer team beckons.

Yes he's a squadmate

 

[Warachia]

-snip-

-snip-

Both of you are severly undrestimating the value of the Citadel. Their entire plan rests on it. They need it. This was made clear in Mass Effect; the reason Reaper invasions have succeeded was because they had the Citadel. The Citadel is the greatest asset any faction could hoope to control. It is the heart of the relay system; you can't go to most places without going through it. It has all the data on all the races. It's the perfect trap set up by the Reapers, and why they're suddenly abandoning it in favor of attacking Earth makes no sense.

You say that the Citadel is to well fortified? That doesn't make any sense since they're going to have to go through it eventually. It's not like they can just ignore the Citadel. They're going to need to take control of it regardless of what their current plan in. By attacking Earth, all they are doing is broadcasting to the galaxy that they are here. So when they do go through the Citadel, and they will have to, whatever defenses it had before are now going to be far stronger. This is a stupid plan. The Reapers are being stupid. If they're making such an idiotic move I can't find them threatening as villains. They're not even making use of the system they spent so much time preparing!

Even if their first plan failed, that still doesn't change the fact that the Citadel is the single most important asset to the success of their plan. By not attacking it first they're giving the other species time to band together, which is exactly what is happening. If the Reaper fleet isn't powerful enough to take out the Citadel now, then their plan is doomed to fail anyways.

Their best shot at a successful invasion this time would be to work in reverse - target the homeworlds of each of the Citadel races first to weaken them and then work inwards.

You need access to the relay network to reach the homeworlds. The heart of the relay network is the Citadel. So in order to reach these homeworld they would be going through the Citadel. So unless they take control of the Citadel that plan won't work at all.

Since you are repeating yourself, I might as well do that too. The citadel has no more value becuase the reapers could probably shut down the relays anyway, if they attacked it first it would give species a reason to band together because all of the races would have been attacked at the same time. If they are attacked individually, it would give each species time to prepare, yes, but no reason to band together, they'd just fortify their home planet and wait for the reapers, and of course they'll have to go through the citadel eventually, but that gives no reason why it should be their first target.
The main reason it was so important in the first game was because the would launch a successful surprise attack and people wouldn't know what's happening to the citadel because of an information blackout, that can't happen this time, so the citadel has no value, Also, you don't need to be anywhere close to the citadel to use the relay it's near, and because of this, I think you are vastly overestimating the citadel.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Since you are repeating yourself, I might as well do that too. The citadel has no more value becuase the reapers could probably shut down the relays anyway, if they attacked it first it would give species a reason to band together because all of the races would have been attacked at the same time. If they are attacked individually, it would give each species time to prepare, yes, but no reason to band together, they'd just fortify their home planet and wait for the reapers, and of course they'll have to go through the citadel eventually, but that gives no reason why it should be their first target.
The main reason it was so important in the first game was because the would launch a successful surprise attack and people wouldn't know what's happening to the citadel because of an information blackout, that can't happen this time, so the citadel has no value, Also, you don't need to be anywhere close to the citadel to use the relay it's near, and because of this, I think you are vastly overestimating the citadel.

The Reapers need to use the Citadel to shut down the relays becuase it's the control network for all the relays. If they have another method of shutting down it most certainly requires visiting each individual relay for it to work, which takes far more time and is nowhere near as efficient. If they could shut down any relay at any time they would have already done so. Also if the species in this game have even half a brain they'd realize that the Reapers are the all powerful galaxy devouring force that people have been ranting about recently. If they don't realize this, Bioware is writing incredibly unrealistic characters that are incapable of musing basic logic.

The fact that you think the Citadel has no value really makes me wonder how much you paid attention to the first game where they repeatedly said THE CITADEL IS THE KEY TO THEIR SUCCESS!!! And no, it wasn't just because it gave them the advantage of surprise, though that was a big part. It's because the Citadel gives you complete control over the sole method of efficient long distance travel in the galaxy.

 

[Warachia]

Since you are repeating yourself, I might as well do that too. The citadel has no more value becuase the reapers could probably shut down the relays anyway, if they attacked it first it would give species a reason to band together because all of the races would have been attacked at the same time. If they are attacked individually, it would give each species time to prepare, yes, but no reason to band together, they'd just fortify their home planet and wait for the reapers, and of course they'll have to go through the citadel eventually, but that gives no reason why it should be their first target.
The main reason it was so important in the first game was because the would launch a successful surprise attack and people wouldn't know what's happening to the citadel because of an information blackout, that can't happen this time, so the citadel has no value, Also, you don't need to be anywhere close to the citadel to use the relay it's near, and because of this, I think you are vastly overestimating the citadel.

The Reapers need to use the Citadel to shut down the relays becuase it's the control network for all the relays. If they have another method of shutting down it most certainly requires visiting each individual relay for it to work, which takes far more time and is nowhere near as efficient. If they could shut down any relay at any time they would have already done so. Also if the species in this game have even half a brain they'd realize that the Reapers are the all powerful galaxy devouring force that people have been ranting about recently. If they don't realize this, Bioware is writing incredibly unrealistic characters that are incapable of musing basic logic.

Here's the flaw in your argument, THE ONLY THING THE CITADEL IS, IS AN INACTIVE MASS RELAY. IT CANOT INFLUENCE THE OTHER RELAY'S IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

For the record, people not believing the reapers existence is understandable, considering how for the past two years the media has been telling people that Sovriegn was a geth warship, and you have to remember, people will believe whatever they want, so long as they can't be proven completely wrong.

The fact that you think the Citadel has no value really makes me wonder how much you paid attention to the first game where they repeatedly said THE CITADEL IS THE KEY TO THEIR SUCCESS!!! And no, it wasn't just because it gave them the advantage of surprise, though that was a big part. It's because the Citadel gives you complete control over the sole method of efficient long distance travel in the galaxy.

Actually, you are correct here, the citadel location to the mass relay juction would massively affect space travel, but there are other longer routes around the citadel, and I've already told you above why taking the citadel and it's relay is a bad idea.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

As long as Joker is in it I don't really mind if it's a grey brown shooter *skips off happily with SR2 hat on*.

(Okay I do... but yay Joker >_>)

 

[Kopikatsu]

Anyone else think that sparing the Rachni will cause the Collectors to create a Rachni Reaper?

 

[Frotality]

one article with points obviously designed to shut up the RPG fans is hardly cause to think happy thoughts about the future. announcements since then have directly contradicted these claims of trying to further blend RPG/shooter (announcements that, as shamus young put it, contradict themselves as well).

look towards the future with a smile? no, you need a jaded grimace to face the future; smile and you just get your teeth knocked out.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Here's the flaw in your argument, THE ONLY THING THE CITADEL IS, IS AN INACTIVE MASS RELAY. IT CANOT INFLUENCE THE OTHER RELAY'S IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

Except it can, otherwise how could it be used to isolate stay systems? The AI in Mass Effect stated that the reason the invasion was always a sucess was because the Reapers were able to deactivate the relays at will. Presumably the Citadel is what allowed them to do this because it was the center of the relay network, and I could've sworn this was actually said in game. The Reapers can't deactivate relays at will from anywhere since they would've already done that. So there's two possibilities; a.) the Citadel allows the Reapers to influence other relays b.) while the Citadel can not influence other relays, its position allows the Reapers to easily acess and deactivate key relays almost instantly. Either way, the Citadel is still a key strategic asset.

For the record, people not believing the reapers existence is understandable, considering how for the past two years the media has been telling people that Sovriegn was a geth warship, and you have to remember, people will believe whatever they want, so long as they can't be proven completely wrong.

Let's go over the amount of evidence we have to prove that the Reapers are real;

-Evidence that Soverign was completley most Geth technology
-Studies of a crippled Reaper
-Data gathered from the Collector base/the base itself
-The Geth outright saying that Soverign was not their technology.

I can understand average joe not knowing the truth because he hasn't seen any of this. However any major governing power that can look at all this and believe the Reapers are not real is unbelivably stupid.

Actually, you are correct here, the citadel location to the mass relay juction would massively affect space travel, but there are other longer routes around the citadel, and I've already told you above why taking the citadel and it's relay is a bad idea.

Your entire argument against taking the Citadel is that it would turn every species against the Reapers, which is already going to happen regardless. It's just that if they take the Citadel first this won't be an issue becuase they can isolate each species. The first game said this was how they won.

EDIT: You know one of us is remebering the first game wrong so this entire argument could be rendered moot by reviewing that one part with the AI.

 

[Dane Tesston]

I'm not worried. BioWare knows what they're doing, and I'm sure the third game will be a fitting conclusion to a great story. And hey, so long as Tali's there, I'm happy.

 

[Warachia]

Except it can, otherwise how could it be used to isolate stay systems? The AI in Mass Effect stated that the reason the invasion was always a sucess was because the Reapers were able to deactivate the relays at will. Presumably the Citadel is what allowed them to do this because it was the center of the relay network, and I could've sworn this was actually said in game. The Reapers can't deactivate relays at will from anywhere since they would've already done that. So there's two possibilities; a.) the Citadel allows the Reapers to influence other relays b.) while the Citadel can not influence other relays, its position allows the Reapers to easily acess and deactivate key relays almost instantly. Either way, the Citadel is still a key strategic asset.

EDIT: You know one of us is remebering the first game wrong so this entire argument could be rendered moot by reviewing that one part with the AI.
.

Actually, we both remember the game right, we just have different interpretations of what was said.

I went and rewatched that bit with vigil, he says :
"The station is actually an enormous mass relay, one that links to dark space, the empty void beyond the galaxy's horizon."
"The reapers seized control of the citadel, and through it, the mass relays."

The statements (which I took out of context) imply but never directly say the relays were shut down through the citadel as vigil also infers that the systems were isolated because the surprise attack wiped out their leaders, and most communications, as those were also run through the citadel, the species had no idea what was happening and that made it easier for the reapers.

For the record, people not believing the reapers existence is understandable, considering how for the past two years the media has been telling people that Sovriegn was a geth warship, and you have to remember, people will believe whatever they want, so long as they can't be proven completely wrong.

Let's go over the amount of evidence we have to prove that the Reapers are real;

-Evidence that Soverign was completley most Geth technology
-Studies of a crippled Reaper
-Data gathered from the Collector base/the base itself
-The Geth outright saying that Soverign was not their technology.

I can understand average joe not knowing the truth because he hasn't seen any of this. However any major governing power that can look at all this and believe the Reapers are not real is unbelivably stupid.

The crippled reaper was only looked at by cerberus scientists, who know what reapers are, and who like to keep information away from government officials (and the Illusive man on occasion), and the data collected from the collector base was also done by cerberus scientists.
Incidently, there are two reasons they wouldn't believe the geth:
-The only geth to say that was Legion, and he only spoke to your crew
-There is no way any government would believe a current enemy of theirs (especially if they were talking about military power).

I think we should end this argument here because there isn't enough information to convince you or me to go to the other side.