IMO good animations are far more important than nice models, textures, or backgrounds

[Brawndo]

I was watching the gameplay video for the new Hitman game [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_pal859keA] and it bothered me that in 2012, we still see the following:

- Characters gliding/skating up and down steps (0:52 and 6:25 of the video for examples)
- Characters opening doors by basically face-planting into them (1:03)
- Ammo, guns, and disguises magically transporting to your body
- Terrible rag doll corpses that have no weight to them and end up in awkward poses (6:40)

Although Hitman Absolution is a pretty-looking game with a lot of attention to character models and the environment, I wish more emphasis had been placed on good, crisp animations. I like seeing my character and NPCs actually performing tasks and interacting with the world. In might seem minor, but I love how in GTA IV, Niko would actually push open doors with his hand, and how stairs were actually something you had to navigate and could fall down if you were moving too fast. Far Cry 2 is an excellent first-person example of good animations. Your character would actually stick his hand out and grab items that you picked up instead of them magically appearing in your inventory. Not to mention applying first aid and fixing cars actually had on-screen animations instead of just watching a bar fill up.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I agree.

I wish this was real


If something moves realistically, then it's a lot easier to overlook graphical imperfections.

Games like Monster Hunter and Dark Souls aren't the prettiest games around, but the characters move like I think they would in real life.



ME3 is very nice looking game, until the characters start moving

 

[sextus the crazy]

Company of Heroes has some beautiful animations to back up it's lovely visuals, which is why it looks so good still.

 

[Strain42]

I agree, there is something that's just amazing about seeing good animation.

That's why Ghost Trick is like one giant good feeling from start to finish...well...y'know, well done fluid animation coupled with fun and interesting gameplay plus a fantastic story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5SJ5p79H8k

...I don't know how to embed videos here >_>

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I agree, there is something that's just amazing about seeing good animation.

That's why Ghost Trick is like one giant good feeling from start to finish...well...y'know, well done fluid animation coupled with fun and interesting gameplay plus a fantastic story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5SJ5p79H8k

...I don't know how to embed videos here >_>

To embed a youtube vid, just delete everything up to 'youtube', then after that, delete everything up to the first '='

Like so.


youtube=u5SJ5p79H8k

Then put it in square brackets.

 

[Kahunaburger]

No need for "IMO" - this is basically an objective fact. I think it's one of Newton's laws.

 

[Strain42]

snip

Thank you. I appreciate that.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

snip

Thank you. I appreciate that.

No need for thanks, citizen.

Just doing my escapist duty.

[HEADING=1]Daystar away![/HEADING]

 

[burningdragoon]

ME3 is very nice looking game, until the characters start moving

Man, during the opening of ME3 there were two guys moving next to each other with the exact same animation in perfect sync with each other. Made me go *sigh*

 

[Daystar Clarion]

ME3 is very nice looking game, until the characters start moving

Man, during the opening of ME3 there were two guys moving next to each other with the exact same animation in perfect sync with each other. Made me go *sigh*

I doesn't matter how shiny your game is if everyone moves like a constipated bag of potatoes.

 

[Brawndo]

I agree.

I wish this was real


If something moves realistically, then it's a lot easier to overlook graphical imperfections.

Thanks for posting the video. It's a perfect example of what I was trying to get at. I couldn't care less that the graphics are circa 1998 because Gordon's animations are great. It's also important for NPCs to have excellent animations. I hate watching enemies flail around like wooden dolls.

 

[piinyouri]

But what if the graphics are the animations? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEMBRpd9c98&hd=1]

 

[ThriKreen]

Unfortunately game development doesn't usually allow for a lot of custom animations like in the HL video, they often draw from a library of canned stuff to ease animator time and such. Remember, back when HL was made, what sort of computer was common place? How much CPU power would be needed for the skeletal animation with that many bones? How much RAM would be needed to store it all so it is readily available for playback?

And regarding things like using IK for feet on steps, it's fine if you have one character doing it. But IK can be expensive and using it in a crowd so ALL their feet match up with the ground's slope? Picking up objects is the same, the object could be anywhere, and the player's facing direction and state and size (Dwarf? Half-orc? Women also tend to be shorter than men) could also be anywhere. While it would be nice to have, the amount of work to enable IK for feet or hands can be huge, and time can be better spent elsewhere.

On the same note, play Max Payne 3 - it's animations are great, Max moves realistically when changing directions and transitions into jumps, bumps into locked doors properly and all that.

Just that ... gameplay took a back seat when they made this game - said realistic animations hampers the gameplay itself. See some enemies charging you, so you want to dodge into cover? Let's have a second of animation blending as you go from walking forward to strafing to the side, then another second of forced animation blending to transition into the dodge leap behind the wall. Oh look, while you were doing that, the enemy has several seconds of fire on you, so you've lost 50% hp already.

How would you feel having to sit through a minute of animations each time Agent 47 changed outfits, watching him take his clothing off then putting the new one on? I don't know about you, but I'd get bored of that "feature" pretty quickly and would rather just skip it.

 

[skywolfblue]

I have to agree. Perhaps not the end-all and be-all of gaming, but probably the primary visual cue.

For example, Skyrim makes a pretty screenshot, but when it's living and breathing, it's downright ugly, compare that to something like Gears of War 3 or Assassin's Creed where all the animations are virtually flawless.

 

[Iszfury]

I honestly have to disagree. I'd much rather my games have an enriching, lively (or potentially morose and melancholy) atmosphere that incites some level of aesthetic involvement as opposed to an animation lunchbox of a game. Let me clarify:
ART DESIGN > Animation...
The actual technical level of the graphics is more or less irrelevant, unless it is necessary to portray the setting (The Witcher 2).
Merely my opinion.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

A smart individual posting a thread on The Escapist? That's umpossible!

Yes, smooth and flowing animation is the key to immersion. Stiffness (Oh Deus Ex...) breaks it.

I agree.

I wish this was real


If something moves realistically, then it's a lot easier to overlook graphical imperfections.

Games like Monster Hunter and Dark Souls aren't the prettiest games around, but the characters move like I think they would in real life.



ME3 is very nice looking game, until the characters start moving

>Video

See, as great as it looked, I'm just hoping you realize with as auto-mated as that video is, it goes against what Valve was trying to accomplish with Freeman.

 

[oplinger]

Unfortunately game development doesn't usually allow for a lot of custom animations like in the HL video, they often draw from a library of canned stuff to ease animator time and such. Remember, back when HL was made, what sort of computer was common place? How much CPU power would be needed for the skeletal animation with that many bones? How much RAM would be needed to store it all so it is readily available for playback?

And regarding things like using IK for feet on steps, it's fine if you have one character doing it. But IK can be expensive and using it in a crowd so ALL their feet match up with the ground's slope? Picking up objects is the same, the object could be anywhere, and the player's facing direction and state and size (Dwarf? Half-orc? Women also tend to be shorter than men) could also be anywhere. While it would be nice to have, the amount of work to enable IK for feet or hands can be huge, and time can be better spent elsewhere.

On the same note, play Max Payne 3 - it's animations are great, Max moves realistically when changing directions and transitions into jumps, bumps into locked doors properly and all that.

Just that ... gameplay took a back seat when they made this game - said realistic animations hampers the gameplay itself. See some enemies charging you, so you want to dodge into cover? Let's have a second of animation blending as you go from walking forward to strafing to the side, then another second of forced animation blending to transition into the dodge leap behind the wall. Oh look, while you were doing that, the enemy has several seconds of fire on you, so you've lost 50% hp already.

How would you feel having to sit through a minute of animations each time Agent 47 changed outfits, watching him take his clothing off then putting the new one on? I don't know about you, but I'd get bored of that "feature" pretty quickly and would rather just skip it.

It's actually not as difficult as it sounds. The resources required for animations are very very small compared to textures. And the CPU load is unnoticable compared to say..physics calculations, unless you're doing all your animations as physics calculations (there is a game that does that) then the resources required for better animations is quite small, for a major gain in some cases.

As for IK, not an issue, the IK handles can be placed at a specific point in space, so the animations may be scaled with the model, but you're going to have to deal with their feet stepping on the same place on the steps, since the handle will still be going to the same place, the scaling is so they bend properly. Not to mention you can copy/paste the animation keyframes onto different skeletons. And even elongate the animation to make it faster and slower.

...And now you may be thinking "NUH UH OP, IF IT WAS SO EASY THEY WOULD DO IT THAT WAY" ...Sadly it's easy to do, time consuming to program. Many engines cut out some specific tools for animations, sometimes in favor of just mocapping everything, sometimes just to make the lighting, texturing and sound better.

Also I would gladly sit through a minute of animation to watch Agent 47 struggle to change outfits. I mean it's taking him 60 seconds? <.< jesus. ..But seriously I would be okay with him picking it up at least, cut to black, and fading back to him making final adjustments. Doesn't need to be the whole thing to be passable, but just walking up to it WABLAM different outfit, is kind of jarring.

OT: ...Yeah, I agree completely, good animations give me serious gamer boners. ....Probably why I became an animator.

 

[Smooth Operator]

I don't agree with that, they aren't far more important but they are just as important.
A missing animation should be considered just as bad as a missing model, texture, sound,... and the higher production quality you go for the higher your animation quality should be.

But ofcourse it's easy to go cheap with animations because they aren't that apparent or rather we are used to bad ones, which is why I maintain that games are still in that 1920s movie era where presentation just isn't taken seriously enough.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Damn right. One of the best things about Jak and Daxter is how they move and emote. It's brilliant.