Improving Dragon Age 2

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

My biggest gripe with DA2 is that it feels as if Bioware brought out their B-team to create it. From the odd pacing, the contrived and forced plot points and onto the horrid recycling of areas and wave spawning enemies, this feels like the game created by a group of people that clearly aren't veterans in the gamemaking department. Especially since these are areas where every other Bioware game usually shines.

 

[Smooth Operator]

What are you an about, you can't improve on perfection...

Honestly that game has too many faults to be any quick fix for it, Dragon Age Origins took 9 years of development for a reason.

 

[Takolin]

7. Give it an actual overarching story. Yes, Hawke rises to power. Wow. My Warden became the greatest hero Ferelden has ever had, rising from a simple city elf. That is a rise to greatness and power, but he actually accomplished something to get there. He defeated an entire Darkspawn invasion almost singlehandedly, with the exception of a couple of companions. There were some slightly interconnected plot lines, but they were just very vague one act, the whole point of the next act, then completely forgotten the act after that. But hey, maybe that's what happens when you jump in years between acts... so, to fix that:

But there is an actual overarching story and in my opinion it's a better one than DA:O's. DA:O presented the classic "good guy+companions rise to power to stop the evil horde" story which isn't original any more. DA2 however focusses on the politics of the city and sets up the setting of DA3: namely the war between mages and Templars throughout the rest of Thedas.

 

[Amanda Diamond]

As for me, overall I prefer the greater options of customization for protagonists in Origins to a fully voiced PC in DA2. For me the companions have been, and will always be more interesting than the protagonist. And that's how it should be in an RPG, because the player should have room to place themselves in the role, whereas NPC's can be fully fleshed out. And an earlier poster made a good point about Origins text responses allowing for greater companion character development than the dialog wheel.

Also, I think that Bioware tried very hard to make the final choice between helping the Mages or Templars a difficult one, but failed to do it well. I mean, aside from Bethany and maybe one or two other NPC's every mage in the game is either a blood mage, an abomination, or in immediate danger of becoming an abomination. Before the endgame starts, I would say that the Templars are in the right. Clearly the mages of Kirkwall really cannot be trusted. But setting off the conflict the way they did, with Anders (that asshole,I really hate that guy) causing everything was, in my opinion, a bad decision. Because it doesn't make sense to kill all the Circle mages when one non-circle mage was the culprit- and by the way, was right there, so could easily be apprehended an punished (pretty sure Sebastian points this out).
If it were me, I would have actually had some of the Circle Mages start the fight, being desperate from the increasingly harsh conditions in the Gallows. As it stands, I have a very hard time siding with the Templars in the endgame, even if I've been playing the entire game siding against the mages. It just seems wrong.

I definitely agree with you on the options in Origins rather than a fully voiced PC. How did they managed to make the dialogue so stilted and awkward?

Again I agree, the argument was handled very well in Origins,but it went downright ridiculous in this game.

 

[Amanda Diamond]

7. Give it an actual overarching story. Yes, Hawke rises to power. Wow. My Warden became the greatest hero Ferelden has ever had, rising from a simple city elf. That is a rise to greatness and power, but he actually accomplished something to get there. He defeated an entire Darkspawn invasion almost singlehandedly, with the exception of a couple of companions. There were some slightly interconnected plot lines, but they were just very vague one act, the whole point of the next act, then completely forgotten the act after that. But hey, maybe that's what happens when you jump in years between acts... so, to fix that:

But there is an actual overarching story and in my opinion it's a better one than DA:O's. DA:O presented the classic "good guy+companions rise to power to stop the evil horde" story which isn't original any more. DA2 however focusses on the politics of the city and sets up the setting of DA3: namely the war between mages and Templars throughout the rest of Thedas.

There is an overarching story in Dragon Age 2 alright, though I wouldn't say its better than Origins(That being my opinion).Yes, its iconic, but its done really well, told smart with well fleshed out dynamic characters. Dragon Age Origins presents itself well and doesn't rush its pacing, that's where it really wins out.

Dragon Age 2 has a good story, that is also iconic, its just poorly presented. Most people miss the overarching story in 2 and here's why :Hawke is NOT the main character of the story. Anders and Meredeth are, they are the ones actively driving the plot forward. Meredeth leads the templars and is becoming increasing more paraniod and tyrantical. Anders is leading a revolt to free the mages. (He seems to want Hawke to lead it, but then won't let you actually participate because "its too dangerous")
This is my biggest issue with the game. Hawke has no agency in the over all story, things just happen to him/her. Infact the game seems determined to actively deny you any ability to effect the game's outcome and from the sequel to Origins, this is just unforgivable.

Then there is the fact that this game just feels rushed, not just the development, but game itself, not taking the proper time to establish characters, threats, story, or just, you know, enjoying the experience. There aren't a really any recurring characters introduced in this game, most are just borrowed from Origins and Awakenings.
And you know, considering the plethora of guilds, factions and whatnot active in Kirkwall (seriously, the Qunari, the Mage's Underground, the Carta, The Coterie, the Templars and the Nobles) and you can't interact, or gain influence with them. What a missed oppertunity to flesh out the world.

 

[Joccaren]

But there is an actual overarching story and in my opinion it's a better one than DA:O's. DA:O presented the classic "good guy+companions rise to power to stop the evil horde" story which isn't original any more. DA2 however focusses on the politics of the city and sets up the setting of DA3: namely the war between mages and Templars throughout the rest of Thedas.

I'll give it had the potential to be better than Origins, but I still preferred Origins, simply because it was executed better. I prefer a well executed clichéd story to a poorly executed semi-original idea for a story. I don't doubt that had Bioware had a bigger budget, more time, and not taken the lazy route with it it might have been something great, but as is I just don't see anything that makes it feel like it has an overarching plot - and I hate pure sequel bait. ME1 was alright, as yeah, it had a few lines at the end that told you this wasn't over, but it felt over. Mass Effect 2 I didn't like, but I could stand it as you got to go on what felt like a main quest in the game itself, but DA2 just left you with a cliff hanger on what would have been THE interesting part of the story. Executed better, the Kirkwall arch would have had promise, as is... Nope.

All comes down to opinion though. I just didn't feel like my time in Kirkwall accomplished anything.

 

[NorthernStar]

I really loved DA2's combat, so I suggest they keep it that way in future installments. For me, the game played way better than DA:O.

Where the game fell short, however, was with the slightly uninspired art direction at times (the aforementioned prologue was a great example). Also I felt some of the characters missed the 'sass' of some of DA:O's cast. While I found Varric, Isabella and Fenris to be very entertaining, the rest of the cast felt a bit bland to me. Also, somehow the romance options felt less engaging to me, though I'm not sure what caused that.

I actually quite liked the story in DA:2, but throughout I had the feeling that so much more could have been done with it. The first two acts aren't really about anything, and just when things really kick off, the game's ended... It set up a nice setting for DA:3, but this gave me the feeling that this was really just an in-between-games title, which to me is always slightly dissapointing.

 

[Bostur]

The main game breaker for me was actually the interface and the controls. This may be PC specific though.

Giving orders to characters is unreliable because the order may be cancelled when the character is hit. That makes it very hard to control 4 characters.

The faster pace and action is unsuitable for a point and click interface. They should have slowed it down a bit and made it more like DA:O, or used a control scheme similar to Jade Empire. It tries to be both at the same time and fails at both.


I can sometimes ignore poor controls if the other parts of the game is excellent, but that wasn't the case with DA2.

 

[varulfic]

Here's what I'd change:

- Remove Hawke and his voice actor. Make the player character a blank slate, like in the first game. I want to roleplay, dammit!

- Don't have waves of enemies constantly spawning.

Those are my two biggest gripes. The story I had no problems with (though the writing could have used some more polish, the banter in particular was never as compelling or funny as Origins). I kinda like the idea behind DA2's story, focusing on my hero improving the conditions in his home town instead of trying to save the world like in every other rpg ever made. It's a refreshing change of pace that I wouldn't mind seeing more of. In Origin, you basically just walked around and poked your nose in other people's business, in DA2, you fought for something that affected you and your loved ones. Bioware games are more about the characters anyway, so it makes sense to have a more personal focus.

 

[kingcom]

Just a personal one-get rid of the dialogue wheel and voice. Blank slate>pre-defined character in a RPG like Dragon Age. Also, the hell was with the race lock? You put me in a fantasy world and force me to be human? Really? Imagine if Skyrim forced you to be a Nord.

To me this is funny, because I feel the opposite. I love voiced protagonists, humans are my favorite race (boring I know, but it's true) and the same goes for Nords actually.

I liked the dialogue in both origins and 2, but I gotta go with 2 just because it's voiced. It just feels a little off to me when NPC's talk to me and I respond in text, especially in a third person game.

Personally I play RPGS to.....well roleplay. Its the difference between DA1 and DA2. In DA1, I was the Gray Warden, I was the hero of Feralden, I stood against the hordes of Darkspawn and came out on top. In DA2, Hawke became a noble, Hawke stopped the Qunari, Hawke ultimately killed everyone, not me. I got to watch...provide advice every now and again, thats about it.

Well the story they had would've been impossible to do with an elf or a dwarf. That's probably the problem right there, the story was way too focused on Hawke's family. I don't mind the voice though.

Definitely not impossible. Only difficulty I see would have been dwarf and mages but simply ignore your sister being a mage and hey presto, your done and you get to skip an entirely emotionless, uninteresting plot arc.

 

[spartandude]

make Oghren tell the tale!

 

[WFox]

A few other things:

The game absolutely needed a better ending. Hey look you helped shape what appears to be the beginning of a massive world wide conflict, this should be really interesting now. Nope, you're done! Wait for the sequel (which I've heard actually won't feature Hawke anyway, which totally kills my theory that DA2 was just a three act Origin for that character).


Also how you can interact with Companions was not as good as Origins. I liked being able to actually talk to my companions at any time. The companions are interesting, they have things to say, don't pigeon hole us into only being able to have three conversations with them over a ten year period! And while I liked that the Friendship/Rivalry system gave us a new shape to the relationships with companions, I really don't like how not getting enough points could lose you so many companions, because this can really hurt you by the end of the game. What's that? Anders, Fenris, Isabela, and your sibling are gone? I sure hope you didn't need a healer/lock picker/ warrior. And actually, this wouldn't be that hard to fix. All they'd have to do is bring back gifts. Not the story related, cutscene inducing gifts, just random gifts that will give you friendship/rivalry points. Maybe it hurts the roleplaying a bit, but not as much as tailoring your conversations, party builds, and decisions to max out relationship points, which is exactly what I've been doing just so I don't lose half of my companions.

 

[The Abhorrent]

DA2 certainly could've used some more development time to iron out a lot of the issues; so here's a (brief) commentary on what should've been done, starting with the obvious ones:

1. More variation in environments
The excessively recycled environments of DA2 is inexcusable, no matter how you slice it. ME1 did this a bit as well, but it was at least restricted to the sidequests. With DA2, it's more persistent throughout. It's an obvious sign that the game didn't get sufficient development time as well.

2. Properly implement the wave mechanics for encounter design
The issues here are two-fold; waves were over-used, and enemies appeared out of thin air. I feel this is most prevalent in the first act, as it seemed to be dialed down afterwards; almost as if the first act was the last one to actually be made. Used (far) more sparringly, wave mechanics are a good idea; a way of keeping players on their toes, by forcing them to think quickly & act decisively. However, when it happens in every single encounter? The player comes to expect it, and it actually becomes annoying. Enemies should also not just teleport in, there should be some mechanism to their arrival; fighters run around corners, mages teleport in (rather than just appear out of nowhere, there's some magic effects shown; perhaps even a portal), skeletons come up from the ground, and so on. Wave mechanics aren't an inherently bad idea, but the poor implementation and excessive use in DA2 is a problem.

3. A better paced & planned first act
As noted in my previous point, the first act seems to be made last; and made hastily at that. The Deep Roads Expedition is one of the best parts in the game, but hours leading up to it is practically aimless. Gathering your team isn't too bad, but there's very little connecting them to the main storyline (at least at that point). It also drags on, especially for completionists who want to do everything. It just feels like a bunch of random adventures, and quite a bit of it just doesn't lead up to other details.

4. A more coherent central storyline
The mages versus templars storyline should've been given a lot more focus in the first two acts, and both Orsino & Meredith should've shown up (and had a greater effect on the plot) before their appearance at the end of second act.

5. You should've been able to talk to your party members at any time
Dialogue trees being confined to only specific conversations makes them feel a lot more shallow than DA:O's cast (though the depth DA2's cast is at least comparable). Hawke should've been able to sit down and talk with them, even if just to talk about stuff not relevant to the plot itself.

6. Progression of time should've been shown more
Very little changes in Kirkwall between the acts, especially in the visuals; the time-skips don't feel like much as a result. Rather than barely any notable changes, more should've been done; plain & simple.

---

That's my take on DA2's problems at least. It's a great game, with several glaring issues; if they were taken care of (and they're the sort of thing which should be taken care of), the game would have been much better.

Of course, that doesn't solve the issue of players wanting easier-to-understand characters & plots (DA2 is far more grey than DA:O)... but not much you can do about that without comprimising the story DA2 was trying to tell.

 

[ABLb0y]

How about if I side with one of them at the end it actually means something? Like, if I side with Orsino, I don't have to fight him and vice versa.

 

[Alima]

How about if I side with one of them at the end it actually means something? Like, if I side with Orsino, I don't have to fight him and vice versa.

Meaningful choices that makes an impact in the story would lead you off the railroaded plot.

Not allowed!