Improving the JRPG for the Next Generation.
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STATS!! OH GOD STATS!!!!Fenixius said:
It's not the stats themselves I don't like, it's where I'm forced to keep track of who has what stats where that it gets infuriating. And really, is there that much disparity between a level one and level ninety-nine? Only like a month or something has passed. You know? It's like you travel for a month and suddenly your defence is so high, monsters that could kill you in one hit now can't even hurt you.
That's another thing with JRPGs. Half the time it doesn't even make sense that there are random monsters wandering around that only exist to try to kill you.
And that they gradually become more powerful as you move in x direction.
One time I made a post about how games should have eco-systems. If you've played FFXII, you can see how eco-ish JRPGs can be. Some of the monsters don't even try to kill you. And they are all depicted as if in their natural environment. Wouldn't that be the greatist if there were actual ecosystems? This is what I am thinking.
Anyways, I must say I really love RPGs.
Even linear story-lines!!
I love linear story-lines. They are usually very well done (or seemed like it when I was 14...) and have so much potential. Non-linear storylines are often disjointed and don't have the same lovely even pace that a linear one does. You see? Life is crazy.
Also, one thing about FFXII, that may be revealing of JRPGs in general:
I didn't like the plot so much.
"But why?" Ask you. "It was pretty good."
Yeah, well so anyways. What bugged me about the plot was that the characters weren't in it. There was so very very little chracterization for a Final Fantasy it is just silly. I had no idea what Penelo thought of Ashe or Basch thought of Fran. You couldn't tell the way they interacted. All they did was react: to events. The crazy events that went on. Those crazy ones. They were pretty interesting; but the characters just become dolls!
Dolls to stick your stats in!
AGGHHH STAAAATSSS!!!
I would LOVE to see a fully-fledged mystery game. There've been a couple: a few Agatha Christie ports (yes, seriously!) - another one that I can recall where you played a security advisor in the US Government who was trying to unmask a traitor working close to the President; one particularly good game set in London in the early 1900s which was a cross between Sherlock Holmes and Jack the Ripper. (Can't remember what that one was called unfortunately.) But this is very very hard to do.
And let me reproduce a post from another thread here:
I wish that someone would develop a great engine for interacting with NPCs. One that would make it just as likely that a wolf would run away and hide from you as it is that it would fly at your throat. One where everything animate could be friendly or neutral as well as hostile (except for the really nasty monsters of course, but they'd be the exception). One where you could negotiate or barter with goblins or bandits perhaps, instead of getting into an unavoidable to-the-death fight. Also, characters would react differently according to what they'd seen you do (a civvy who's seen you hand money to a beggar is going to react very differently than one who's seen you stab the beggar in the throat), what their and your circumstances are, what clothes or armour you wear, etc. Seriously, is it that difficult, given the technology we've got at the moment? If you can make a playable engine like Bioshock's, you can certainly do what I've said above. But nobody ever has yet.
I could imagine a great RPG that could be made like this. It would mean that "personality" as a statistic meant something other than just spellcasting ability, speechcraft could be vital to a stealthy or negotiator-type character, and best play strategy would incorporate lots of non-fighting elements, as well as several actual fighting ones that can't be used effectively when there's really only one tactic that hostile NPCs use - all out offence. (Mastery of the bow for example - in games like Oblivion, the bow is practically useless when every other living thing you're likely to come across anywhere other than on city streets is guaranteed to go for your throat before you've got time to draw it. What if you could use your bow on retreating NPCs, or ones that stay at a distance without attacking? What if NPCs like wolves waited to gang up on you with other nearby wolves before going after you - would you be able to spoil their plans with a well-timed bow shot or throwing dagger? And would killing one wolf with a bow cause others to run away in panic or attack out of rage? What if different wolves reacted differently, randomly or according to how many others were nearby?)
The effect of always hostile NPCs is that only an absolute nitwit would choose to play a "stealth" or "personality" type character over one who's a master at hitting people with swords, summoning demons or spewing high-level fireballs. In 95% of RPGs that I've played, there's practically no point in choosing any character except a high-level wizard or warrior. I put this entirely down to the total lack of intelligence when dealing with non-human characters. Does it have to be this way?
I'd posted this elsewhere but it's obviously very relevant here. Still, apologies about the double-post!
And let me reproduce a post from another thread here:
I wish that someone would develop a great engine for interacting with NPCs. One that would make it just as likely that a wolf would run away and hide from you as it is that it would fly at your throat. One where everything animate could be friendly or neutral as well as hostile (except for the really nasty monsters of course, but they'd be the exception). One where you could negotiate or barter with goblins or bandits perhaps, instead of getting into an unavoidable to-the-death fight. Also, characters would react differently according to what they'd seen you do (a civvy who's seen you hand money to a beggar is going to react very differently than one who's seen you stab the beggar in the throat), what their and your circumstances are, what clothes or armour you wear, etc. Seriously, is it that difficult, given the technology we've got at the moment? If you can make a playable engine like Bioshock's, you can certainly do what I've said above. But nobody ever has yet.
I could imagine a great RPG that could be made like this. It would mean that "personality" as a statistic meant something other than just spellcasting ability, speechcraft could be vital to a stealthy or negotiator-type character, and best play strategy would incorporate lots of non-fighting elements, as well as several actual fighting ones that can't be used effectively when there's really only one tactic that hostile NPCs use - all out offence. (Mastery of the bow for example - in games like Oblivion, the bow is practically useless when every other living thing you're likely to come across anywhere other than on city streets is guaranteed to go for your throat before you've got time to draw it. What if you could use your bow on retreating NPCs, or ones that stay at a distance without attacking? What if NPCs like wolves waited to gang up on you with other nearby wolves before going after you - would you be able to spoil their plans with a well-timed bow shot or throwing dagger? And would killing one wolf with a bow cause others to run away in panic or attack out of rage? What if different wolves reacted differently, randomly or according to how many others were nearby?)
The effect of always hostile NPCs is that only an absolute nitwit would choose to play a "stealth" or "personality" type character over one who's a master at hitting people with swords, summoning demons or spewing high-level fireballs. In 95% of RPGs that I've played, there's practically no point in choosing any character except a high-level wizard or warrior. I put this entirely down to the total lack of intelligence when dealing with non-human characters. Does it have to be this way?
I'd posted this elsewhere but it's obviously very relevant here. Still, apologies about the double-post!
I'm going to perform Thread Necromancy! by reiterating something I just posted in the "Battleship Final Fantasy" thread...
It's hard to make an Ensemble Story where the player has choice.
You cannot make choices for an entire group of people without comprimising them as characters.
JRPG's like Characters, WRPG's like HEROES! Think about it...
In most WRPG's the plot revolves almost 100% around "One Important Character" played by the player, they make all the decisions, they effect the plot, it's all about them. I know this makes all the egotists out there feel fucking fantastic, but it removes the "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern" effect that most Japanese Plotters seem to enjoy.
The real question is...
How can you unify Choice and Character?
It's hard to make an Ensemble Story where the player has choice.
You cannot make choices for an entire group of people without comprimising them as characters.
JRPG's like Characters, WRPG's like HEROES! Think about it...
In most WRPG's the plot revolves almost 100% around "One Important Character" played by the player, they make all the decisions, they effect the plot, it's all about them. I know this makes all the egotists out there feel fucking fantastic, but it removes the "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern" effect that most Japanese Plotters seem to enjoy.
The real question is...
How can you unify Choice and Character?
Honestly, I feel like there's some cultural issues with the hate of JRPG's. WRPG's by now also have their own set of somewhat contrived mechanics that can be done just as badly, or be just as annoying.
I will grant that we need actual adult characters *is* generally a legitimate criticism..
On a larger level, I feel like discussions of jrpg's often get stuck into rants about the rut the FF series seems to have gotten itself into, when there are other series and games that have gone in various different directions, mechanically and story wise.
I will grant that we need actual adult characters *is* generally a legitimate criticism..
On a larger level, I feel like discussions of jrpg's often get stuck into rants about the rut the FF series seems to have gotten itself into, when there are other series and games that have gone in various different directions, mechanically and story wise.
They don't need to get rid of the random encounters, but the whole, "Stop. Yes, now get warped back to this random part of the stage, wait for it to load, and now fight them. OK, now wait for it to load. There you go. you can take another step."
What I'd like to see is for there to be an in game reason to stop and fight a certain way, like if your special powers would only work if you stopped and took turns or something. and don't warp the player to a random different area. You should just fight wherever you and the bad guy met.
What I'd like to see is for there to be an in game reason to stop and fight a certain way, like if your special powers would only work if you stopped and took turns or something. and don't warp the player to a random different area. You should just fight wherever you and the bad guy met.
Tales of symphonia did the combat vey well. While it wasn't random, the screen did change, however, the combat in real-time was very satisfying, knowing that you could juggle your enemies, using epic moves, and finish bosses with pwnsome team combos. But, Kratos was definitely the coolest character. Everyone was a step below him...