In Defence of Frank Miller

[Atmos Duality]

The Dark Knight returns was actually pretty good. I hear Sin City was too but I never read it.

He has written a lot of great comics, although now it seems he is at the absolute low point in his career.

Sin City was quite good. (didn't like the movie, actually)
But the core problem with Frank Miller is that he started writing Sin City...and then he never stopped.

It leaks through into his other works, even where the overblown noir-style isn't at all appropriate nor is the dark dirty adults-only tone.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

If we're defending Frank Miller, anyone got a view on Holy Terror? Because I can remember skimming that and feeling my IQ drop withe every page. Not to discredit how it's probably sexist in a couple of ways it's main issues, for me at least, were that every "Muslim is a Terrorist" and "This Hezbollah agent has the star of David TATTOOED ON HIS FACE"

Captcha: That's enough. I think it is, Frank Miller. I think it is...

Is Batman fighting Terrorist somehow different from this comic [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gN0k-SwjgKw/TinIjOaz7sI/AAAAAAAAAf4/WI6RhfNPAYs/s1600/captainamerica1.jpg]?

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

If we're defending Frank Miller, anyone got a view on Holy Terror? Because I can remember skimming that and feeling my IQ drop withe every page. Not to discredit how it's probably sexist in a couple of ways it's main issues, for me at least, were that every "Muslim is a Terrorist" and "This Hezbollah agent has the star of David TATTOOED ON HIS FACE"

Captcha: That's enough. I think it is, Frank Miller. I think it is...

Is Batman fighting Terrorist somehow different from this comic [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gN0k-SwjgKw/TinIjOaz7sI/AAAAAAAAAf4/WI6RhfNPAYs/s1600/captainamerica1.jpg]?

a) It isn't Batman it's 'The Fixer' because it's too racist for DC to give the rights

b) That comic has cap fighting Nazis, and I doubt it says that every German ever is a Nazi and Germany is a haven for Nazi extremism even now and should be bombed.

I can see your point but it's one of those things you need to read to really follow >_>

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

If we're defending Frank Miller, anyone got a view on Holy Terror? Because I can remember skimming that and feeling my IQ drop withe every page. Not to discredit how it's probably sexist in a couple of ways it's main issues, for me at least, were that every "Muslim is a Terrorist" and "This Hezbollah agent has the star of David TATTOOED ON HIS FACE"

Captcha: That's enough. I think it is, Frank Miller. I think it is...

Is Batman fighting Terrorist somehow different from this comic [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gN0k-SwjgKw/TinIjOaz7sI/AAAAAAAAAf4/WI6RhfNPAYs/s1600/captainamerica1.jpg]?

yes, because Cap doesn't fight Nazis, he fights SUPERnazis.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Specifically, for 8 Bit Jack, this is a Jim Goad guest appearance on the NON "Hatesville" album.

dude. Epic. *goes a-searching*

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Yeah I struggle over using it because I was afraid ignorant fools would assume I was spouting off my views through my characters instead of taking it as I intended, to give a very dark unlikeable characteristic to the main-character because I wanted him to be unsympathetic. But no, clearly I must be homophobic for it and I'm sure Frank beats and rapes women.

Heres the thing dude, thats Frank Miller. The hell do you expect when you pick up his books? It's like going to a Pixar film and complaining that it's a CGI film.

Mmmm your one of these kind of people. I love your type, so sheltered and inside their own vast complex mind they spend most the day browsing through the internet with just a little bit of hope they can find something to get all huffy about. Just that one thing were finally they get to have an opinion and someones got to acknowledged it now because it was directed at someone.

It's kinda cute in a stupid way, like a dog eating it's own feces outside since it's been locked out from annoying everyone else in the house due to trying to do the same thing in here.

Heh, funny thing is was I kinda agreed with you in my previous post about some things and thought I explained it in a none talking down way that you would understand, but I guess I was wrong. I just get the feeling your one of those people that don't want to grow up just yet and want to kick and flail around some more, maybe got a job that's going no where... I wouldn't be surprised. You seem like the type. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Oh Snap! Everybody watch out!


We got such a rebel here!!!!!

 

[Griffolion]

We could also get into how pornography turns men into nothing but a phallus but I'm gonna keep is pg-13

I also have a bone to pick with the OP in that creators making sexualized characters, while not a bad thing, could at least create serious female characters more often.

What you did there, it has been seen.


I dunno, I'm not really into comics. If someone is surrounded in media and literature that portrays this point of view about women, it has a negative effect over time in the most subtle of ways. But if people buy Frank Miller's stuff then I dunno, people obviously want it, as bad as it is.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Yeah I struggle over using it because I was afraid ignorant fools would assume I was spouting off my views through my characters instead of taking it as I intended, to give a very dark unlikeable characteristic to the main-character because I wanted him to be unsympathetic. But no, clearly I must be homophobic for it and I'm sure Frank beats and rapes women.

Heres the thing dude, thats Frank Miller. The hell do you expect when you pick up his books? It's like going to a Pixar film and complaining that it's a CGI film.

Mmmm your one of these kind of people. I love your type, so sheltered and inside their own vast complex mind they spend most the day browsing through the internet with just a little bit of hope they can find something to get all huffy about. Just that one thing were finally they get to have an opinion and someones got to acknowledged it now because it was directed at someone.

It's kinda cute in a stupid way, like a dog eating it's own feces outside since it's been locked out from annoying everyone else in the house due to trying to do the same thing in here.

Heh, funny thing is was I kinda agreed with you in my previous post about some things and thought I explained it in a none talking down way that you would understand, but I guess I was wrong. I just get the feeling your one of those people that don't want to grow up just yet and want to kick and flail around some more, maybe got a job that's going no where... I wouldn't be surprised. You seem like the type. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Oh, you're one of those people who think they know a person by what they post on the internet. Always smugly attempting to break them down like they're a child and you're the all-knowing adult who has to explain to them the difference between right and wrong. Feeling like you're the first person to come along and say such things and knowing in your heart that everyone to witness it now thinks of you as some kind of smack-talking GOD, when in reality all we see is a smug asshole who can't see that comparing someone who disagrees with them to a feces-eating dog is kind of an incredibly douche-y thing to say. You think you're Dr. House, or Kerr Avon, but all you really are is a smug prick. Why don't you grow up a little before holding yourself above others? Maybe you'll actually get some respect then.

Spoiler: In short...

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

Well written, reasonable and persuasive sir. I also felt hyper masculine characters needed to be addressed as well but people keep throwing up flak about them being fantasy self-images for men that is true HOWEVER it does not change the fact that they are unreasonable depictions of men and correspondingly hold up sexist attitudes of what a man should be.

For every Power Girl there is a Superman

Every Lara Croft a Kratos

Every Playmate a Mr Olympia

Spoiler

We could also get into how pornography turns men into nothing but a phallus but I'm gonna keep is pg-13

I also have a bone to pick with the OP in that creators making sexualized characters, while not a bad thing, could at least create serious female characters more often.

Is Kratos meant to be sexy? What with the... ashes of his family covering him and the constant brutal murdering?!

 

[Carpenter]

Well written, reasonable and persuasive sir. I also felt hyper masculine characters needed to be addressed as well but people keep throwing up flak about them being fantasy self-images for men that is true HOWEVER it does not change the fact that they are unreasonable depictions of men and correspondingly hold up sexist attitudes of what a man should be.

For every Power Girl there is a Superman

Every Lara Croft a Kratos

Every Playmate a Mr Olympia

Spoiler

We could also get into how pornography turns men into nothing but a phallus but I'm gonna keep is pg-13

I also have a bone to pick with the OP in that creators making sexualized characters, while not a bad thing, could at least create serious female characters more often.

Is Kratos meant to be sexy? What with the... ashes of his family covering him and the constant brutal murdering?!

Yeah "dangerous" but poetically tragic men with pale skin are never used as sex symbols for females. That's just silly.

See what I did there? Think about it.

 

[malestrithe]

If we're defending Frank Miller, anyone got a view on Holy Terror? Because I can remember skimming that and feeling my IQ drop withe every page. Not to discredit how it's probably sexist in a couple of ways it's main issues, for me at least, were that every "Muslim is a Terrorist" and "This Hezbollah agent has the star of David TATTOOED ON HIS FACE"

Captcha: That's enough. I think it is, Frank Miller. I think it is...

I try not to think about Holy Terror. It's bad enough that this little revenge fantasy was meant to be the 3rd Dark Knight Returns series. I would rather pretend that it did not exist.

 

[Flight]

While both genders are indeed portrayed unrealistically in comics, I strongly disagree with your argument. Men being muscle-bound and super capable is an example of a power fantasy. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but look at the other side. Women are usually portrayed as hyper-sexualized and in need of a man to save them, and in Frank Miller's case, that's no different. There is a difference between escapism and objectification. Men in comics generally get the former. Women, on the other hand, get the latter. The problem is not that they're "sexy", the problem is that it's all he can generally manage with them.

 

[Imthatguy]

Well written, reasonable and persuasive sir. I also felt hyper masculine characters needed to be addressed as well but people keep throwing up flak about them being fantasy self-images for men that is true HOWEVER it does not change the fact that they are unreasonable depictions of men and correspondingly hold up sexist attitudes of what a man should be.

For every Power Girl there is a Superman

Every Lara Croft a Kratos

Every Playmate a Mr Olympia

Spoiler

We could also get into how pornography turns men into nothing but a phallus but I'm gonna keep is pg-13

I also have a bone to pick with the OP in that creators making sexualized characters, while not a bad thing, could at least create serious female characters more often.

Is Kratos meant to be sexy? What with the... ashes of his family covering him and the constant brutal murdering?!

Sexism =/= Sexy Women

sex·ism
noun \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\
2
: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

The stoic male hero archetype is a attitude in media that enforces traditional male roles.

 

[Imthatguy]

Spoiler

We could also get into how pornography turns men into nothing but a phallus but I'm gonna keep is pg-13

I also have a bone to pick with the OP in that creators making sexualized characters, while not a bad thing, could at least create serious female characters more often.

For every porn actress there's a bodice ripper.

True, I'm not really sure what to say to this post aside that our society still has quite a way to go.

(I had to google that)

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Spoiler

We could also get into how pornography turns men into nothing but a phallus but I'm gonna keep is pg-13

I also have a bone to pick with the OP in that creators making sexualized characters, while not a bad thing, could at least create serious female characters more often.

For every porn actress there's a bodice ripper.

True, I'm not really sure what to say to this post aside that our society still has quite a way to go.

(I had to google that)

It says that porn is awesome, no matter what your naughty bits look like