In defence of the controller over the mouse for online FPS

[rossatdi]

To rossatdi: That's convenient for you isn't it? Instead of actually addressing my points, you just say an internet catchphrase and pat yourself on the back for a job so well done.

Lulz.

I dont think that is the point that rossadti is making.

Correct me if i'm wrong, what i took from is that he's saying that for ease of use and drop in drop out gaming a controller is better.

TBH i'd have to agree.

I like using the mouse for aiming but that's only because i've been doing it for about 10 years in which case someone newer to it would have trouble and i also think the keyboard lets it down, searching for keys is a pain in the balls.

I have no doubt that if in actual fact M+KB players came up against controller players, the M+KB would come out on top but who gives a big fat fuck?

It's about having fun, having a hobby and enjoying it. Not training for weeks and weeks so that you can play online without being embaressed.

You're posting on an internet forum about this...Who gives a big fat fuck? I thought you said it was about having fun and having a hobby?

Funny how that argument collapses onto itself.

Seeing as I said previously in response to an even more aggressive reply that no, it's the internet, no one cares. I am at work, this is a pleasant distraction.

You however seemed to not have answered my points about a controller making for a more fun game. I'm not entirely sure how using a keyboard increases your speed and efficiency but please do enlighten me. Yes it increases accuracy but it's not like you can't aim with a analogue stick, there are quite a few competent CoD4 snipers who would probably support me on that.

And the whole mouse+keyboard is automatically superior is such an internet cliche that using "epic fail" to describe a failure of you to address the points raised seemed appropriate.

The point was, as I've come to realise, is that a more even field is more fun in a game that most people do not want to dedicate themselves to. You can't realistically compete with UT3 deathmatch players without some serious, excuse the phrase, skillz.

 

[Nezron]

Mouse and Keyboard are by far the best mode of playing FPS.

For a person who just wants to play for fun the console wins hands down.

But for serious gamers PC is overall king. No matter how well and person is good at a knowing a map. A person with the same knowledge will dominate with mouse and keyboard as the re-actions will always be faster and motion movement will alot smoother.

Even in ZP it show mouse will always cripple FPS on console.

 

[DeadlyFred]

Being able to pop headshots in mid air is all part of the skill of the game. The jist of your argument seems to be: controllers are better/more fair because they limit everyone to being equally inept--or am I reading it wrong? Also, a mouse is a mouse for the most part. A $100 mouse isn't going to make you better at CoD4 any sooner than a $100 pair of shoes is going to make you better at basketball.

Just because something is "more accessible to the masses" hardly makes it better.

 

[KierzoSBC]

Mouse and Keyboard are by far the best mode of playing FPS.

For a person who just wants to play for fun the console wins hands down.

But for serious gamers PC is overall king. No matter how well and person is good at a knowing a map. A person with the same knowledge will dominate with mouse and keyboard as the re-actions will always be faster and motion movement will alot smoother.

Even in ZP it show mouse will always cripple FPS on console.

I think it's funny that some people think that if you play with a mouse and keyboard, you can't actually play for fun.

Casual gamers for controllers and casual games! How good are you at, I mean, how much fun do you have in Peggle, Rossatdi?

That is not the point either.

No one said it wasnt fun.

Look, read this: Mouse and Keyboad's learning curve is too steap for people who dont necessarily want to compete at any "great" level.

There is no need for arguement here.

 

[rossatdi]

Casual gamers for controllers and casual games! How good are you at, I mean, how much fun do you have in Peggle, Rossatdi?

*sigh* Trust me, if I had a spare £1,500 lying around I'd be playing my FPSs on a PC. I am not a casual gamer and haven't been for the last 10 years. Personally I like that games are slightly more socially acceptable than they used to be but hope to god we keep getting games like CoD4, UT3, etc etc with genuine depth and skill.

But for serious gamers PC is overall king. No matter how well and person is good at a knowing a map. A person with the same knowledge will dominate with mouse and keyboard as the re-actions will always be faster and motion movement will alot smoother.

Even in ZP it show mouse will always cripple FPS on console.

Er, their reactions are not faster. There ability to aim at speed is. But that's the crux of the whole bloody argument isn't it? The slight forgiving that is found in console shooters allows the less obsessive to compete. Skill in PC FPS is largely a function of Time + Repetition, not that it isn't in console games but the gap to close is much smaller.

Oh god, I didn't agree with something Yahtzee said, send me to hell. I love the guy but he isn't the font of all knowledge. Plus he's generally talking single player which I happily concede is better on PC.

Are people at least seeing the point?

 

[rossatdi]

Logically, fans of the controller scheme should be more focused on casually having fun and not going on internet forums to defend control schemes. It contradicts their entire reason for playing with a controller.

So what you're not allowed to be a hardcore gamer without enough cash to spend on a machine that compete? The entire reason for playing with a controller, for me and a lot of others, is a scarcity of cash. I am merely trying to put across the point to people that a slight, and it is slight, in interaction can make an online game more fun without a massive reduction in the joys of being good at something.

 

[KierzoSBC]

Being able to pop headshots in mid air is all part of the skill of the game. The jist of your argument seems to be: controllers are better/more fair because they limit everyone to being equally inept--or am I reading it wrong? Also, a mouse is a mouse for the most part. A $100 mouse isn't going to make you better at CoD4 any sooner than a $100 pair of shoes is going to make you better at basketball.

Just because something is "more accessible to the masses" hardly makes it better.

So you're saying Britney Spears isn't better than Bach?

I suppose my problem with this thread is that it's conflating objectivity with subjectivity while picking and choosing which bits work best for the most favorable outcome.

That is not the point either.

No one said it wasnt fun.

Look, read this: Mouse and Keyboad's learning curve is too steap for people who dont necessarily want to compete at any "great" level.

There is no need for arguement here.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying; I also believe that controllers are perfect for casual gamers and casual games.

I suppose that's why I think it's funny when all these casual games like Halo, Gears of War, and Resistance produce hardcore fanboys...It doesn't really make much sense!

Logically, fans of the controller scheme should be more focused on casually having fun and not going on internet forums to defend control schemes. It contradicts their entire reason for playing with a controller.

Have i got you right?
Console gamers are all casual?
Unless they play witha mouse and keyboard?
And only Hardcore gamers can post on forums?

*sigh*

Fuck this i'm off home.

 

[rossatdi]

Have i got you right?
Console gamers are all casual?
Unless they play witha mouse and keyboard?
And only Hardcore gamers can post on forums?

*sigh*

Fuck this i'm off home.

I'll be joining you shortly. Not at your home, that would be weird. But I'm not really hardcore enough to post on internet forums when I've got more fun stuff to do. Also, what he you said.

 

[DeadlyFred]

Consoles are what consoles are, and they're good at what they are. But saying what they are is superior in some way to what PCs are is false. If you don't have the mien and/or means to be a PC gamer that doesn't make PCs an inferior platform. The PC came first, put simply. Consoles are forever doing nothing but a median imitation of the former and, hey, that works for a large part of the gaming community (I don't hate it, either).

But lots of people still like the PC, even for casual gaming skill levels and then more still like it because they don't have the crutch of an gimped control scheme stuck up their arse and they are free to be as 1337 as their caffine-augmented twitch response can be.

 

[rossatdi]

*sigh* Trust me, if I had a spare £1,500 lying around I'd be playing my FPSs on a PC.

*sigh* Trust me, it doesn't cost £1,500, or even half (or EVEN a quarter) of that, to have a computer which can play COD4 or UT3.

I am not a casual gamer and haven't been for the last 10 years. Personally I like that games are slightly more socially acceptable than they used to be but hope to god we keep getting games like CoD4, UT3, etc etc with genuine depth and skill.

You're talking about "socially acceptable"...Have you ever gone on Xbox Live? I had an Xbox 360 for three months and whenever I went on XBL to play some Halo 3, "socially acceptable" is the last thing I would attribute to my experiences.

Genuine depth and skill won't ever be found in the same space as a dual analog stick, remember? You'll have plenty of casual fun though.

Find me a PC I can build for £375 that can play CoD4 properly online in non-lego vision. And that'd still be more expensive than the 360!

Also, just out of interest, and this is purely based on my own prejudice/assumptions, can you answer the following Eggo: how old are you, how much have you paid for your own PC and where did you get the money from? Please prove my assumptions wrong but try not to lie.

It was a revelation to me when I told my friend I was going to save a grand and get a half decent computer. He just said, surely you could go on a kick ass holiday for that amount? Yes, yes I could. And Paris was worth the lose of a mouse.

 

[rossatdi]

Well, that was a spirited defense of the controller over the mouse for online FPS.

Time and a place Eggo, time and a place. If anyone out there is posting at home, go read a book or play outside. Trust me, it's healthier. And also, if this is still going tomorrow I will be back. I don't leave for an hour though so I gots time yet.

 

[Fightbulb]

Wow, lots of burly internet guys in this thread. All this manly talk about something that can simply be regarded as a personal fucking preference is getting ridiculous. Plenty of people before me have already pointed this out, but I'm going to post it again as simple as possible, maybe it'll help (probably not though): Both sides have pros, both sides have cons, use you one you prefer.

That's it. Honestly, I don't see why people are being so damn defensive over the kind of instrument they use to move their imaginary character around in an imaginary fucking setting. Honestly, go play some games if you're so obsessed about it instead of defending the way you choose to play it.

Genuine depth and skill won't ever be found in the same space as a dual analog stick, remember? You'll have plenty of casual fun though.

What irks me about your posts is that whenever someone posts anything remotely derogative about the use of a mouse and keyboard, you swoop in to defend it as if your life somehow depended on it. Then you do the exact same thing to the other "camp", if you will, by insisting that depth and skill are an unexisting factor in gaming when a controller is used. See, you're doing the same thing. Then you make a joke about things being "casual", which is always and without exception, utterly hilarious.

You forgot to mention Peggle in that last post though, that would've made it even funnier. (possible? perhaps!) You know, because that guy Yahtzee made some jokes about that game, and referencing that makes you equally as funny. I don't know how, but it just works that way, apparently. It's like quoting The Holy Grail, or Youtube videos.

edit: my post apparently took 18 minutes to write (crazy, I know), but Peggle reference was written before I saw the post above me. So, you know.

 

[rossatdi]

Find me a PC I can build for £375 that can play CoD4 properly online in non-lego vision.

All you need is this to play COD4 on all settings maxed out:

http://scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=685727

Unless you don't actually have a computer at home and/or it is more than 5 years old.

And that'd still be more expensive than the 360!

Hardly, unless you haven't bought an extra controller, accessory, or an XBL Gold membership for your 360 yet.

Also, just out of interest, and this is purely based on my own prejudice/assumptions, can you answer the following Eggo: how old are you, how much have you paid for your own PC and where did you get the money from? Please prove my assumptions wrong but try not to lie.

20, less than $1000 (closer to $850 actually) for a completely new build with a 3.0 GHz quadcore processor, 8 gigs of memory, and an 8800GT (although I use it more for audio production than gaming so I could have saved even more money by skimping out on all the audio production stuff), working at my university's audio/video studio.

It was a revelation to me when I told my friend I was going to save a grand and get a half decent computer. He just said, surely you could go on a kick ass holiday for that amount? Yes, yes I could. And Paris was worth the lose of a mouse.

You could save even more money and sell all your console FPS's and just play Peggle. I mean, you are a casual gamer who is proud of that fact so let's get you to Paris where you can play Peggle all you want! :]

Whoa, hit a soft spot here. I guess social life and hardcore gaming can't co-exist in some peoples world. I did play the peggle demo once, decided it had even less point than the average game and never touched it again.

And as for calling me a casual gamer I'd like to say, no, not really not since a long long time ago. I've 100% Timesplitters 2, 100% every GTA since Vice, 3rd prestige on CoD4. Far Cry, Pain Killer, Serious Sam, Deus Ex, Doom 3, HL2 all completed on hardest modes (you ever tried Realistic Far Cry?). Plus HL 1 completed on hard, with the crosshair turned off.

Right so at least £100 on a graphics card, at least £100 on RAM, at least £100 on mother board + processor. That's £300, $600, without audio card, the tower and all the hard drives, fans and other gubbins. And for that amount I seriously doubt it looks as nice and plays as smooth as my £200 xbox + £25 (second game) + £40 xbl. Maxed out? I'm sorry but I call bullshit on that. Yeah it might run but i bet it's not lovely and smooth.

 

[D_987]

The mouse is est for online FPS games. Your points make no sense. Your effectivly claiming that the controller limits skill - therefore making it easier for bad players to pretend they are good...

Well, thats really not the point of an online FS is it? The whoe point is to see how good you are against players. Your argument that the controller is better is ridiculous, on the basis that your claiming limiting skill is a bad thing.

I never play games on my PC (too many buttons on the keyboard and Im not buying a new video card), and considor myself pretty good at games on my 360, but why claim that controllers are better because they don't take as much skill...

For the casual crowd, yes. But I think we can assume everyone on these forums are not casual gamers.