In defence of the controller over the mouse for online FPS

[rossatdi]

This discussion isn't about what is a superior FPS though. It's about the unfairness of certain people being better at something than you and how a poor control scheme somehow nullifies that.

It's those people who are better getting that advantage merely through application of a great may hours and the implementation of an input method that removes the advantage of repetitive training.

Player A and Player B have both exactly the same physical and mental abilities. A players a PC FPS for 40 hours, B for 5. They play and A wins enormously. Repeat on a console and A will win, but the game will be less one sided. A's experience has allowed him to win, but B has had the enjoyment of not getting brutally slaughtered.

B goes to work, has a social life and finds some time for game when he can. He liked to play games more but he realises there are things he'd rather do.

 

[rossatdi]

Do we win because they gave up first?

 

[Woe Is You]

Cheeze_Pavilion brings interesting points, but most of them have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Do we win because they gave up first?

To be fair, your argument has been the same thing after numerous counter-arguments only laced with more insults as time goes on. Case in point, the post above.

 

[Aries_Split]

It's those people who are better getting that advantage merely through application of a great may hours and the implementation of an input method that removes the advantage of repetitive training.

You mean...PRACTICE?

/argument. Rossatdi, your coming off as a troll. Firstly, you deflect or find a way to not answer nearly all of Eggo's and Cheese's points, and you somehow refuse to see the obvious. Therefor, You are most likely a troll. Just letting you know.

 

[rossatdi]

It's those people who are better getting that advantage merely through application of a great may hours and the implementation of an input method that removes the advantage of repetitive training.

You mean...PRACTICE?

/argument. Rossatdi, your coming off as a troll. Firstly, you deflect or find a way to not answer nearly all of Eggo's and Cheese's points, and you somehow refuse to see the obvious. Therefor, You are most likely a troll. Just letting you know.

No I'm sorry not /argument. The point is that too much practice kills the accessibility of a game for normal people. Practice is fine, and controller FPSs are won by practice.

You're just letting me know I'm a troll, oh how kind of you! I appreciate your presumption.

Considering the original post was attempt to defend console FPS games which the PC crowd seem to assume are the equivalent of pissing on the bible then wiping your arse with it. The one major argument for mouse gameplay is that its more accurate, something that I feel is more or less irrelevant after a few hours on a controller, and doesn't actually contribute to the combative fun of online games.

Yes single player is better the closer to fully immersed it gets, no doubt, ever. But that's different to competitive games. Immersion isn't as important as fun, right? That's probably the uncrossable crux of the argument. If you'd rather play something brutalising realistic against people who can beat you only because they've spent the time improving their aim then, fine, I guess the mouse is your thing. But if you want something you can sit down and be pretty good at a few times a week then the controller is better.

Honestly I would have never said this 6 months ago but enforced controller gaming has radically changed my opinions. Unless someone just freely installed a top-spec computer in my room I would not seek the mouse interface again. That might change in a few years if I can put £1000 on the table without a panic about next months rent.

Also there's the pool of people who you know with consoles versus PC gamers. I know 4 people very well who all have xbl accounts and I can play at whatever. The number of human beings I know face to face who play online games on a PC is minimal. I guess it's its just something you grow out of. Yes those are subjective points but I suspect their shared by quite a lot of console gamers.

 

[Leon P]

In response to Eggo.
Not really I got a 30/5 KDR this morning, and was banned for supposedly cheating myself.
I've played a few maps and just don't feel its as good as the 360 version,
end of.

 

[Deadarm]

I don't know if anyone else happens to feel this way, but i actually enjoy the keyboard and mouse over the controller because of the obvious reasons. On the other hand I also enjoy giving credit to the players who are actually good at the games and taking away any chance the people who completely suck have, and no I dont mean kill/point based rewards. I mean people who have no life whatsoever at least deserve to get the satisfaction of being able to completly make some guy who has just started playing look bad, because lets face it if you cant think react and move fast enough to deal with the nerds you should go back to the outside wold which you came from and NEVER EVER get back on your computer for anything but your e-mail or a game of solitare.
...And as for all of you who prefer console over pc, go sell your pc and buy an expensive cover for your console or some kind of really freaky looking controller that has neon lights inside of it and projects images of porn into your brain while you relax.
If you disagree feel free to send me a message that will be considered a subject of utmost ignorance wether it is or not, and I will judge you to be completely incompetant as a gamer (casual or otherwise) and a person (social or otherwise).
honestly im not even going to look at this fourum again and i wont be back on this site again untill the next zero punctuation review, so im wondering why im even responding to the jackassery which is the subject of mouse vs controller


if you actually read all of that you should kill yourself for putting up with the rantings of someone who is incredibly biased, hateful and above all else has an ego that could take up the space of the average skyscraper

 

[Aries_Split]

It's those people who are better getting that advantage merely through application of a great may hours and the implementation of an input method that removes the advantage of repetitive training.

You mean...PRACTICE?

/argument. Rossatdi, your coming off as a troll. Firstly, you deflect or find a way to not answer nearly all of Eggo's and Cheese's points, and you somehow refuse to see the obvious. Therefor, You are most likely a troll. Just letting you know.

No I'm sorry not /argument. The point is that too much practice kills the accessibility of a game for normal people. Practice is fine, and controller FPSs are won by practice.

You're just letting me know I'm a troll, oh how kind of you! I appreciate your presumption.

Considering the original post was attempt to defend console FPS games which the PC crowd seem to assume are the equivalent of pissing on the bible then wiping your arse with it. The one major argument for mouse gameplay is that its more accurate, something that I feel is more or less irrelevant after a few hours on a controller, and doesn't actually contribute to the combative fun of online games.

Yes single player is better the closer to fully immersed it gets, no doubt, ever. But that's different to competitive games. Immersion isn't as important as fun, right? That's probably the uncrossable crux of the argument. If you'd rather play something brutalising realistic against people who can beat you only because they've spent the time improving their aim then, fine, I guess the mouse is your thing. But if you want something you can sit down and be pretty good at a few times a week then the controller is better.

Honestly I would have never said this 6 months ago but enforced controller gaming has radically changed my opinions. Unless someone just freely installed a top-spec computer in my room I would not seek the mouse interface again. That might change in a few years if I can put £1000 on the table without a panic about next months rent.

Also there's the pool of people who you know with consoles versus PC gamers. I know 4 people very well who all have xbl accounts and I can play at whatever. The number of human beings I know face to face who play online games on a PC is minimal. I guess it's its just something you grow out of. Yes those are subjective points but I suspect their shared by quite a lot of console gamers.

Of course. That makes so much sense, sorry for doubting your impeccable logic, let me just get this straight.

You believe that because someone puts a time investment in games they shouldn't reap the benefits? Of course! That's why they don't let professional sports players practice. Because then it's unfair for the newcomers!

Also, shut the fuck about the cost of computers. It's clear you know nothing and now are just spewing mindless shit. It was fine when you were flinging feces at the Mouse and Keyboard, but to actually FLAME the platform itself is simply immature and in fact, pointless.

And to your comment on none of your friends playing PC games online, of course! If Rossatdi doesn't have friends who play online, none of us do! Because Rossatdi has the power to BE everyone and everything.

Seriously dude, just stop. It's fine when you say you prefer a Controller over a Mouse and Keyboard, but this has turned into your personal poop flinging thread.

 

[Caliostro]

I love how this thread basically comes down to a guy whining "console controllers are superior because they cripple everyone and dumb down gameplay, and due to my inherent ineptitude I enjoy the fact that other people, despite being better than me, can never be FAR better than me due to the forceful handicap", and then turns into biology.

You can argue that controllers are better for fighting games, platforms, RPGs, flying simulators, action games and even driving games, although all of those will come down to personal preference as it's merely a difference in key position. In FPS, it's like trying to argue that the ocean is dry or that the sun is cold... They just don't give you the precision of movement necessary to thoroughly enjoy the experience.

/end thread.

 

[Aries_Split]

If you'd rather play something brutalising realistic against people who can beat you only because they've spent the time improving their aim then

...
I rest my case.

 

[rossatdi]

If you'd rather play something brutalising realistic against people who can beat you only because they've spent the time improving their aim then

...
I rest my case.

Since no ones actually going to take any of this seriously and would prefer to wittily change the text inside a quote, fine. Whatever. Sorry if I transgressed the little book of being a hardcore PC gamer.

I don't hate PCs or PC gamers. I used to be one in fact, not a PC, a PC gamer.
No matter how many times you say it professional sports and computer games are not the same thing, playing a game is for fun - playing professional sports isn't. If Nadal came to a relaxed tennis game you were having at the park with your friends you might ask that maybe he not play as well as he could, so that you could have fun.
No matter how many times you say it, I'm not angry. This forum is something I post on to kill time at work. If God himself came down to earth and said "dude, no" that'd be fine but I haven't heard a decent rebuttal of the actual main point...
Apparently PC fanboys are just as unwilling as console kids to listen to an argument and prefer to simply say "well you must suck at games then" over and over instead of actually discussing something.
There seems to be an aggressive unwillingness to even see the point that many people want to play without huge quantities of practice, and that to those ends, for the majority of people (unfortunately not the ones you find on a games forum) a controller is well suited. FPS are the action blockbusters of gaming and are beginning to attract more, dare I say it, casual players. If we really want this hobby of ours to get bigger (and better funded) then some things will need to change.

Peace out, and remember kids - there's more stuff to do in the world than spend 30 hours making sure you make headshots from across the map.

 

[rossatdi]

I'd like to take this moment to remind everyone of the posting guidelines, especially those covering flaming. Keep it civil.

 

[Uncompetative]

i just suck at FPSing with a controller...

for me the mouse is for FPS, the controller is for 3rd person

I think the PS3 controller is only really appropriate for 3rd person games. The 360's (and actually the Wiimote) are precise enough for FPS.

What irritates me is that there has been no comment on the hybrid control scheme used by Goldeneye 007 on the N64.

Who else has played this? Do you think it is a superior control scheme to Halo/COD4/Prey/F.E.A.R./FarCry stodgily centred reticle?

 

[rossatdi]

Goldeneye had a terrifyingly bad control scheme when compared to the mouse/keyboard and Wiimote. If you wanted to aim with anything approaching precision, you would have to stand still or you'd just have to fire from the hip while moving.

And people accuse me of being ignorant and a troll!

 

[Joeshie]

Question for rossatdi and cheeze_pavalon:

I keep seeing both of you argue that more challenging controls give you a greater sense of accomplishment and ultimately, are more rewarding. If we follow that logic, wouldn't you guys prefer to play FPS games with the D-Pads instead of analog sticks? Wouldn't you guys prefer a control scheme more akin to Goldeneye with it's one analog stick? Wouldn't the earliest FPS that only utilized the keyboard for inputs rather than the mouse be the most rewarding control scheme ever created for FPS? Assuming that this is what you guys are suggesting, wouldn't you guys prefer it if FPS controls de-evolved and became harder to handle, like they were in the very beginning?

At what point do you guys differentiate controls that are frustrating between controls that are challenging?

 

[GeeDave]

This particular topic will never rest, I'm sure others have said that in this thread... but I'm not going to read through 7 pages of "No the mouse is better!" , "No the controller is better!"

Different people... do things differently.
*shock horror*

As humans who have the ability to learn and adapt, we will get better at something the more we do it, we will find things to get progressively easier if we continue to practise it and most important of all... we will inevitably become biased.

But uh oh, what happens when someone who plays FPS' with both the mouse AND a controller come along and say one is better?

Fear not!

THEY JUST PREFER ONE TO THE OTHER. AND THEY ARE NOT YOU, THEY ARE THEM, YOU ARE YOU.

Now onto me and my absolutely pointless opinion. I am predominantly a PC gamer, I have at one point in time owned all the consoles right up until the era of the PS3 (so no xbox/wii either). I have certainly played on these consoles though.

So there's my backstory.

I freakin' love controllers, to the point where I had to buy an adapter for my PC so I could plug my Playstation controller into it. The controller to me... is just fun, it allows me to not worry about work or things that I have to do, I just sit there and play a game, completely incapable of doing something else, like taxes.

However, I do also have a Razer gaming mouse (with the freakin' huge Razer mouse mat!) and I play A LOT of games with the mouse, more so than a controller. But the mouse is not an escape for me... I know that the minute I stop playing a game with a mouse, it's right back to work, using the same peripherals I was just having fun with.

Where does FPS come into all of this though? I hear you ask.

To get right to the point, I play FPS' on the PC, with the keyboard/mouse. Quite simply because I PREFER to aim with a mouse, rather than an analogue stick. And to a certain extent, I prefer it because it is better. There's a reason that quite a lot of FPS' or even third-person shooters on consoles come with auto lock-on targetting.

BUT.

If a DIFFERENT person plays FPS' with nothing but a controller... they're going to get used to it pretty fast, and any problems that may have been present to begin with, would slowly disappear as they got better. The exact same argument goes for the mouse/keyboard setup. And is exactly what I was getting at before in the beginning of this rant.